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So it's true we probably won't get a jetbike archon or succubus. But well....our cousins did get a relic red bull can that could readily help out with that...

Succubus' archite glaive just needs an identical buff that was given to an identical weapon from a different index to a different codex - the banshee exarch's executioner.

S5, AP-3, D3 damage and no to-hit penalty and suddenly succubi are just fine. Good even.

the_scotsman wrote:
Succubus' archite glaive just needs an identical buff that was given to an identical weapon from a different index to a different codex - the banshee exarch's executioner.

S5, AP-3, D3 damage and no to-hit penalty and suddenly succubi are just fine. Good even.

How often do you see Banshees?

The problem is she doesn't have a real target. I guess with that statline she would be good against bikers/terminators, but she as it stands she is barely scratching marines for her points - and is absolutely dire against hordes.
Meanwhile she struggles to wound anything T6 and up (so... most vehicles/monsters).
I guess with monsters you have the agonizer - but then its a -2AP 1 wound weapon. So scaring no one.

The Patrol idea is kind of cool - and the Warlord Stratagem is a nice touch I guess.
If characters were made quite a bit cheaper I might not even mind bringing 4-6 along.

If archons and succubi went down to Spirit Seer levels of points, I think it'd be workable. They'd need something to offset the loss of psychic power (perhaps some AP on the weapon and an extra attack or two), but imagine:

Succubus 45 points, All [wych cult] units may reroll hits of 1 against targets within 6 inches of this model. 3 S 3 T W 4 A 4. WS 2 BS 2 Weapon: wound on a 2+, 2 damage -1 AP. 4++

I would run the hell out of that and it really isn't leagues away from a spirit seer.

Tyel wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Succubus' archite glaive just needs an identical buff that was given to an identical weapon from a different index to a different codex - the banshee exarch's executioner.

S5, AP-3, D3 damage and no to-hit penalty and suddenly succubi are just fine. Good even.

How often do you see Banshees?

The problem is she doesn't have a real target. I guess with that statline she would be good against bikers/terminators, but she as it stands she is barely scratching marines for her points - and is absolutely dire against hordes.
Meanwhile she struggles to wound anything T6 and up (so... most vehicles/monsters).
I guess with monsters you have the agonizer - but then its a -2AP 1 wound weapon. So scaring no one.

The Patrol idea is kind of cool - and the Warlord Stratagem is a nice touch I guess.
If characters were made quite a bit cheaper I might not even mind bringing 4-6 along.

What is she, base, 75pts? Assuming they change to that profile on her weapon and leave costs the same, and you give her move drugs and not strength drugs, and take the DTFE warlord trait on her from CA, she's dishing out

Pre turn 3: 5.7 wounds on average vs MEQ (or 2.88 before damage)
Post turn 3: 7.2 wounds on average vs MEQ (or 3.6 before damage)

That'd be pretty dang solid, all things considered, for a 75 point character that also gives out a buff. you're one-rounding most midlevel MEQ type characters that you'd be dueling. You don't see banshees much because the exarch is stapled to a unit of 4 banshees that dont kill anything. You've also got combat drugs that you could make use of to give her S6 (if you're facing T3 or T5/6) or A5 instead of 10" move.

the_scotsman wrote:
What is she, base, 75pts? Assuming they change to that profile on her weapon and leave costs the same, and you give her move drugs and not strength drugs, and take the DTFE warlord trait on her from CA, she's dishing out

Pre turn 3: 5.7 wounds on average vs MEQ (or 2.88 before damage)
Post turn 3: 7.2 wounds on average vs MEQ (or 3.6 before damage)

That'd be pretty dang solid, all things considered, for a 75 point character that also gives out a buff. you're one-rounding most midlevel MEQ type characters that you'd be dueling. You don't see banshees much because the exarch is stapled to a unit of 4 banshees that dont kill anything. You've also got combat drugs that you could make use of to give her S6 (if you're facing T3 or T5/6) or A5 instead of 10" move.

I guess she can murder buffing MEQ characters reasonably efficiently but I am not sure this is something to write home about. Odds are she won't kill something with a decent ward save - and there are plenty of characters would expect to kill her over two rounds.
Her reroll hits of 1 might matter if Wych/Reaver/Hellion melee was capable of worrying opponents.

Wait for the codex and this week's previews before going all gloomy please, this looks like the AdMech thread and it's exhausting most of the time. They'll probably make loads of changes for our HQs if they already did this big of a change with the unique Detachment system. I'm quite optimistic personally. Granted I've never played DE before and the only models I own are a Start Collecting.

Tyel wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
What is she, base, 75pts? Assuming they change to that profile on her weapon and leave costs the same, and you give her move drugs and not strength drugs, and take the DTFE warlord trait on her from CA, she's dishing out

Pre turn 3: 5.7 wounds on average vs MEQ (or 2.88 before damage)
Post turn 3: 7.2 wounds on average vs MEQ (or 3.6 before damage)

That'd be pretty dang solid, all things considered, for a 75 point character that also gives out a buff. you're one-rounding most midlevel MEQ type characters that you'd be dueling. You don't see banshees much because the exarch is stapled to a unit of 4 banshees that dont kill anything. You've also got combat drugs that you could make use of to give her S6 (if you're facing T3 or T5/6) or A5 instead of 10" move.

I guess she can murder buffing MEQ characters reasonably efficiently but I am not sure this is something to write home about. Odds are she won't kill something with a decent ward save - and there are plenty of characters would expect to kill her over two rounds.
Her reroll hits of 1 might matter if Wych/Reaver/Hellion melee was capable of worrying opponents.

Everything in the Wych Cult category currently is a big if. I'm just highlighting changes I see as very likely - i.e. a weapon being changed in the same way as an identical weapon was changed in the CWE codex, or Reavers getting an identical buff to Windriders and Sky Dancers from 30 to 17 points - and highlighting that on their face, they'll result in some positive change. But there are a host of things that need reworking, and I'm solidly in wait and see mode with my lovely primarily-WC army at this point.

I do usually run 1 of each of the HQs, and I own at least 1 squad of each troop though, so...so far, so good for me!

A pretty decent option that could work for all Wyches, and Succubi in particular, is to give them all an ability (maybe a <Wych CUlt> attribute) to give -1 to saving throws in melee. Any saving throw, including Invuls.
This would reflect their melee prowess and skill at exploiting an enemy's weakest point.

-

Overall the Patrol detachment bonus is entirely underwhelming. I can use all 3 of my detachments to get +4 CP for 7 total or I can build using a battalion + 2 other detachments for 8 at the cost 1 additional HQ but minus a troop tax and I can tailor out my specific detachment bonuses as I need. Color me entirely unimpressed.

My personal biggest prayer is for reavers to look something like shining spears by the end. That would be brilliant for the army, help GW sell all of those GoC board games sitting around and would just make me giddy. We'll see on Wednesday or Thursday I suppose.

 Galef wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree with this. The loss of the Archon jetbike is pretty much why I stopped playing DE altogether. I sprinkled in a few units alongside my Eldar in 7th, but not having a mobile HQ has killed DE for me.
The fact that the last codex even had a 2 page layout detailing the fluff of a Reaver champion turned Archon is even more salt in the wound.
What happened? Did he have to trade in his jetbike to qualify for his Archon registration card?

Indeed. IMO this was the biggest misstep of the otherwise excellent 5th edition book.

When Corsairs were released in 7th - with the wonderful Corsair Prince - they really felt like what DE should have been. Particularly in terms of HQs.

drakerocket wrote:
So it's true we probably won't get a jetbike archon or succubus. But well....our cousins did get a relic red bull can that could readily help out with that...

Bleh.

If we're expected to spam our HQs, then I want mobility options for them beyond a single relic.

One vyper holds 5 HQ. What are you talking about? :-)

2 CP Strategy: Arrrrr!

For this turn, your units may disembark from transports at any point during their movement.

#wishfulthinking

 Niiai wrote:
One vyper holds 5 HQ. What are you talking about? :-)

Regrettably, there does not appear to be a mechanic for driving it off a cliff.

Have you ever tryed deploying it on the very table edge? Or a tall wobly building on the table edge?

drakerocket wrote:
2 CP Strategy: Arrrrr!

For this turn, your units may disembark from transports at any point during their movement.

#wishfulthinking

For 2 CP it seems an expensive and therefore highly situational ability.
Wishful thinking is that it would be baseline. Which I am not convinced would be totally broken.
It might be - but DE are meant to be fast. Not just Eldar but without any armour, psychic abilities, better weapons etc.

Also sorry for being negative. I don't want to be. Its just hard to be overly optimistic. Maybe because my expectations are too high.

Situational? It's a huge solve to our melee issues. Nearly every melee-focused unit in our army would love this.

I mean, they also need to get good but this fixes delivery.

drakerocket wrote:
Situational? It's a huge solve to our melee issues. Nearly every melee-focused unit in our army would love this.

I mean, they also need to get good but this fixes delivery.

Depends how much CP the army can easily get.
I mean I guess full MSU you could get a lot of CP - especially if there is some recover/gain warlord trait or other ability.
Still 2 CP seems expensive. Although just about guaranteed first turn charging Incubi could be interesting.

drakerocket wrote:
Situational? It's a huge solve to our melee issues. Nearly every melee-focused unit in our army would love this.

I mean, they also need to get good but this fixes delivery.

Your idea is too expensive at 2CP and only helps one unit per turn.

drakerocket wrote:
2 CP Strategy: Arrrrr!

For this turn, your units may disembark from transports at any point during their movement.

#wishfulthinking

Frankly, it should just be a default thing for units to be able to disembark from open-topped transports that have moved, this should be standard as compensation for these transports generally being more fragile then closed-top transports.

You could even add some additional stipulation, like units disembarking after moving suffer mortal wounds on a roll of 6, or the vehicle takes extra damage on a 6, etc.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/03/27/codex-drukhari-preview-the-kabalsgw-homepage-post-3/

Blasters going up to D6 damage is quite nice to see. And splinter racks are back!

I like that all these are useful. I can't decide which one I'd like. Probably leaning towards Poisoned Tongue as I like running gunboats.

Lots of interesting stuff in that article. I agree all of it sounds quite beneficial and good.

I am certainly leaning towards Poisoned Tongue or Black Heart. Being able to reroll advance and charges starting turn one is pretty significant.

It's also nice to see that just like our craftworld brethren we appear to be getting special rules that affect all of our units.

I am happy to see that the Kabal of the Flayed Skull is getting proper love. Being able to move farther than before as well as reroll 1 to hit w. Splinter is very nice.

EldarExarch wrote:
It's also nice to see that just like our craftworld brethren we appear to be getting special rules that affect all of our units.

Actually, it does appear there are limits. The article specifically says Scourges will not benefit from Kabal Obsessions.
From this we can assume:
Kabal Obsessions only apply to units with <Kabal>
Wych abilities will only apply to units with <Wych cult>
and Haemonculi Coven abilities will only apply to <Coven> units, etc

This is obviously still better than <Chapter Tactics> that only apply to Dreads and Infrantry units, but isn't quite as good as <Craftworld> Attributes that apply to every unit

-

Hmm, being able to deepstrike a transport, i wonder if the Tantalus will find some use with this, you could pop 3*5 warriors armed with blasters and blast pistols with space for an HQ as well.

First two insights from today's article - I really like Obsidian Rose's trait and stratagem! Adding 6" to our weaponry gives us a nice range advantage over several armies and helps give Venoms some extra range to do their punching. And also the stratagem, while situational feels both characterful and an appropriately weighted gamble.

Yesterday I was dismayed but today I've been buoyed.

Since I doubt Incubi will be getting kabal bonuses, I'm hoping they get some pretty significant buffs to make up for that. Unlike most DE stuff at the moment, their profile isn't entirely terrible right now, but they could definitely use something to make those 18ppm count.

 Galef wrote:

EldarExarch wrote:
It's also nice to see that just like our craftworld brethren we appear to be getting special rules that affect all of our units.

Actually, it does appear there are limits. The article specifically says Scourges will not benefit from Kabal Obsessions.
From this we can assume:
Kabal Obsessions only apply to units with <Kabal>
Wych abilities will only apply to units with <Wych cult>
and Haemonculi Coven abilities will only apply to <Coven> units, etc

This is obviously still better than <Chapter Tactics> that only apply to Dreads and Infrantry units, but isn't quite as good as <Craftworld> Attributes that apply to every unit

-

But we dont know if they get their own thing yet, and a point deduction while having DS and blasters might be very good.