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 Flood wrote:
Go Ultramarines so your dreads can fall back and still shoot, otherwise they get locked down pretty easily.

Yeah, that's probably better. I'll miss the -1 to hit since most of the marines have better than 12" range, but a few units being locked down in cc would wreck too much of my firepower.
If I'm doing that I might as well find 14 pts and go Tigurius too.

edit: I'll change the Deredeo for a Venerable, upgrade to Tigurius, and 3 mortars. I still think the Deredeo is better point for point than a Venerable, more wounds, same shooting. But it's close enough and gets me the points I needed.

edit2: That UM strat to let a tactical/intercessor squad reroll all to hit rolls goes nicely with the Indomitus double shot. Well, at least when not using BobbyG to get the reroll for free
Since talking UM, I've got what I'm positive is a stronger list around all infantry and Guilliman, but then I have to buy more stuff, including Guilliman and then I can't use any of my dreads.

Deredeos are one of the key units for SM, I won't hear a bad word said against them!

The meta is dominated by flyers now - Eldar, Deldar, Harly bikes & Tau, and the Deredeo's Anvillus is the perfect statline to deal with these armies.

Add on top its BS2+ and its +1 to hit flyers and even a flyer with -2 to hit is getting popped on a 3+. They also have 14 wounds and barebones only cost 187pts. Bargain!

I'm thinking of adding one Deredeo to my Ultras. Autocannon battery and Atomantic Pavaise would be my idea to shield the Hellblasters.

 Crimson_ wrote:
I'm thinking of adding one Deredeo to my Ultras. Autocannon battery and Atomantic Pavaise would be my idea to shield the Hellblasters.

For hellblasters, consider using cover. Against anything -3 or lower a 3+ in cover is equivalent or better than a 5++. Its free, but not always available. The Deredeo is still pretty good, but the atomantic pavaise might not be worth it if you play on tables with decent cover.

I was also thinking that if the deredeo is one of the better units we have to begin with, it’s more likely to get shot first anyways, so the shield won’t actually do much and is just paying 30pts to make the target sign on its chest bigger.

Just reading the codex as you do to seek out gems but finding trash. Can anyone explain why you'd bother with scout bikers over normal bikers now the cost the same pts cost!!!

Scouts put out an good amount of bolter rounds, complimented by their shotguns at 12" or less. They also have their Cluster Mine stratagem and move 2" more than the regular bikes.

Regular bikes can take a couple of special weapons and have better armour.

Really depends what you want them to do, but I'd rather have the faster guys that have more shots against weak infantry sitting on objectives.

 Latro_ wrote:
Just reading the codex as you do to seek out gems but finding trash. Can anyone explain why you'd bother with scout bikers over normal bikers now the cost the same pts cost!!!

Faster. 10 more shots. Strat.

Vilehydra wrote:

 Crimson_ wrote:
I'm thinking of adding one Deredeo to my Ultras. Autocannon battery and Atomantic Pavaise would be my idea to shield the Hellblasters.

For hellblasters, consider using cover. Against anything -3 or lower a 3+ in cover is equivalent or better than a 5++. Its free, but not always available. The Deredeo is still pretty good, but the atomantic pavaise might not be worth it if you play on tables with decent cover.

I agree, that is preferable but not always possible. Especially if you try to get 5+ Hellblasters in cover and have a Captain, Lieutenant and Ancient nearby.
If I read the rules correctly, the Atomantic Pavaise works as well on vehicles even if only partially wihthin 6"?

It’s been a while, but pretty sure it was erratad/faqed to only shield those wholly within 6”.

Yeah, you're right.

That sucks. I need to find that for sure.

Martel732 wrote:
That sucks. I need to find that for sure.

Sadly they're right - Imperial Armour FAQ

Page 29 – Relic Deredeo Dreadnought,
Atomantic Pavaise
Change the first sentence of this ability to read:
‘If equipped with an atomantic pavaise, all friendly
<Chapter> units that are wholly within 6" of the Relic
Deredeo Dreadnought gain a 5+ invulnerable save.’

It still works out for smaller units that wanna camp (Thunderfires say hi) but it's less appealing than before.

Won't work with big tanks now for sure.

Maybe I'll do a hellblaster list and put the hellblasters in the bubble with the FNP banner and Corbulo to ress.

Martel732 wrote:
Won't work with big tanks now for sure.

Maybe I'll do a hellblaster list and put the hellblasters in the bubble with the FNP banner and Corbulo to ress.

Does Corbulo have that many advantages to a regular Sanguine Priest?

He rerolls a die roll per turn, has a better weapon, and lets BA explode 6s in CC.

Martel732 wrote:
He rerolls a die roll per turn, has a better weapon, and lets BA explode 6s in CC.

Not sure how handy that reroll would be for him as he's already gonna die. I'd think that a generic Sanguine Priest with the Veritas would be a little better. Not like you'll have a lot of Strategems you want to use for your own army, but still.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It still works out for smaller units that wanna camp (Thunderfires say hi) but it's less appealing than before.

I can still fit 2 sicarans just within 6 of the Deredeo they do love some 5++ action, predators etc easily fit. Landraider and up don't but they gain so little from a 5++ anyway. The other option is normal dreadnaughts.
Also if your ultramarines tig can add a -1 to the Deredeo for extra annoying factor. It's not meta breaking but it can annoy your opponent enough.

Ice_can wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It still works out for smaller units that wanna camp (Thunderfires say hi) but it's less appealing than before.

I can still fit 2 sicarans just within 6 of the Deredeo they do love some 5++ action, predators etc easily fit. Landraider and up don't but they gain so little from a 5++ anyway. The other option is normal dreadnaughts.
Also if your ultramarines tig can add a -1 to the Deredeo for extra annoying factor. It's not meta breaking but it can annoy your opponent enough.

I know for my Ven Dreads I'm using a Deathwatch Captain with the Dominus Aegis and it's kinda successful.

But isn’t an important difference that the DW captain can’t be targeted while a deredeo not only can be targeted, but is one of your better shooters and a prime early kill target anyways? You need something they will attack with a 5++ over just attacking the deredeo itself.

bort wrote:
But isn’t an important difference that the DW captain can’t be targeted while a deredeo not only can be targeted, but is one of your better shooters and a prime early kill target anyways? You need something they will attack with a 5++ over just attacking the deredeo itself.

It's maybe a little gamey but my deredeo is rocking touching cover, a 5++, and -1 to hit and is usually surrounded by 2 sicarans and a ven dread infront of him so not a great primary target, it's up there but sicarans are a different level to predators in resilient. I wish they were T8 but it is what it is.

bort wrote:
But isn’t an important difference that the DW captain can’t be targeted while a deredeo not only can be targeted, but is one of your better shooters and a prime early kill target anyways? You need something they will attack with a 5++ over just attacking the deredeo itself.

That's a risk you'll have to take. You either go with Raven Guard for the additional durability or Ultramarines to avoid being tarpitted.

just looking at old models, its such a shame i never use my speeders anymore.

Has anyone even bothered with them in 8th, even with CA pts drop dual HB one for 70pts seems a waste of time even if they could move and fire at full bs!

another crazy idea i'm having is 10 termies a termie captain with TH/SS and a libby
jump in veil of time them into something maybe on the captain with RG trait for no OW and 40 bolter shots at something... again its like pushing 600pts such a shame and a gimick. might do it in a game for the funs

I have 6 speeders and have attempted to make use of them many times in 8th.
I'm currently selling them.

The most they can do is use their movement to hop over a unit and charge something. For those points though that's not worth it.

 Latro_ wrote:
just looking at old models, its such a shame i never use my speeders anymore.

Has anyone even bothered with them in 8th, even with CA pts drop dual HB one for 70pts seems a waste of time even if they could move and fire at full bs!

another crazy idea i'm having is 10 termies a termie captain with TH/SS and a libby
jump in veil of time them into something maybe on the captain with RG trait for no OW and 40 bolter shots at something... again its like pushing 600pts such a shame and a gimick. might do it in a game for the funs

I can't really see a good use for speeders either, as much as I want to like them. They're so fragile, it's hard to get them into cover, and if you want to take advantage of their movement for shooting purposes their damage output suffers greatly. There's the potentially useful 20" move and then assault for major disruption, but it doesn't seem worth it.

If I could deep strike them I'd consider them more. Or if I could get the Index datasheet for the CA price and have twin Heavy Flamers, I might consider that too.

I cant believe speeders don't still have deep strike. Especially now that they get that -1 for firing when they used to be so fast and shooty. Seems weird that for the same price can get a Rhino with 2 storm bolters and have fairly close shooting and way more utility or 2 attack bikes for more shots and closer towards a brigade.

Speaking of attack bikes, they still aren't great, but they've totally killed the heavy bolter tarantula as the cheapo FA slot, right? Same cost, way more mobile, bit easier to kill...Any downside that I missed?

bort wrote:
I cant believe speeders don't still have deep strike. Especially now that they get that -1 for firing when they used to be so fast and shooty. Seems weird that for the same price can get a Rhino with 2 storm bolters and have fairly close shooting and way more utility or 2 attack bikes for more shots and closer towards a brigade.

Speaking of attack bikes, they still aren't great, but they've totally killed the heavy bolter tarantula as the cheapo FA slot, right? Same cost, way more mobile, bit easier to kill...Any downside that I missed?

No they're awesome. I'm definitely going to get two more for the potential brigade. The only downside I can think of is that cover is hard to get, but oh well.

I have a few attack bikes too but they get the whole move and -1 too right...

GW could really make these units a bit more viable.

lol:
Terminator Captain (Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield) 126
Terminator Librarian (Storm Bolter, Force Stave) 112
10 Terminator Squad 392 E
storm bolters, power fits, serg: power sword

can't wait to watch them die