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 Gendo wrote:

Vanguard Vets can get an hilarious number of attacks. Twin chainswords are an option and that gives a unit of 5 21 attacks. 10 models get 41 attacks. Run them without Jump Packs with Grimaldus to gain an extra 6.8 attacks on average for a whopping 47.8 attacks from a unit that only runs 160 points for the squad, and 280 with Grimaldus tagging along.

Wait, each Chainsword gets 2 attacks and vets have 2 with the sgt at 3 attacks, so a unit of 5 has 27 attacks right?

No each chainsword gives +1A, and they start with 2, so a unit of 5 would be (3+2) + 4(2+2)=21

I've been really pleased with the tactical terminators. The changes to storm bolters and deep strike as well as the +1 wound have made them successful in every game I've used them. And good placement of a teleport homer can have them jump back and support my line if the front wave breaks. All in all, decent shooting and can pack a punch (literally) while being tough to remove.

Well based off the leaks, Tyberos is pretty fething stellar. He gives everyone near him S5 by default this time, which is pretty cool with Scouts and Vanguard and stuff.

What's yours pick for the best characters?

Roboute Gulliman looks pretty powerful however is he worth 18 power points?

Gibs55 wrote:
What's yours pick for the best characters?

Roboute Gulliman looks pretty powerful however is he worth 18 power points?

proably, power points are pretty loosey goosey, but I know people are suggesting gulliman is actually under costed for his pwoer level at 360 points.

I think Sicurious is a pretty solid unit. the special buff he applies to tac Marines, allowing tac marines to attack first even if charged, might (at least this early in 8th) allow you to catch someone off guard if they charge you.

So after even more Forge World leaks, I'm thinking about doing a tag team of sorts with Minotaurs and Carcharodons.

Obviously both the Chapter Masters giving rerolls is good and all, but I'm more interested in the other ability they both have. Tyberos gives +1S, which is awesome for Scouts and Bikers that are charging (obviously with the CC loadout on each. Yay Chainswords) and Asterion more importantly gives rerolls to charge. That's fething HUGE.

Now obviously I don't have the indexes yet, but how viable would it be to do two separate detachments, with Asterion + 2-3 Terminator squads, and Tyberos with 3-4 Scout and Biker squads each?

BrianDavion wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
What's yours pick for the best characters?

Roboute Gulliman looks pretty powerful however is he worth 18 power points?

proably, power points are pretty loosey goosey, but I know people are suggesting gulliman is actually under costed for his pwoer level at 360 points.

I think Sicurious is a pretty solid unit. the special buff he applies to tac Marines, allowing tac marines to attack first even if charged, might (at least this early in 8th) allow you to catch someone off guard if they charge you.

Tac marines aren't going to surprise anyone in combat unless they have a big glowing power fist in there....and that wouldn't be a surprise.

My experience from my whopping 2 games last night;

Calgar is a beast. That re-roll aura is absolutely nuts. I can only imagine Guilliman's is even more overpowered. Calgar isn't bad in melee either, had him drop like 6 wounds on a Hellbrute on the charge, and kill Kharn after getting charged. The half wounds is SUPER good against D3 damage, and with the weird combat activation order now he managed to swing before kharn the second round of melee and finish him off.

Bike Captain with storm shield and power fist. I think he came out to 133 points, and was a complete tank. Took like 100+ khorne berserker attacks to drag him down, and he managed to kill 3-4 and 1-2 Bloodcrushers across multiple combat phases. The aura helped my bike plasma as well.

Played a 2k yesterday against the new deathguard box.

holy gak pox walkers are stupid. and t5 is absolute hell.

toxic miasma makes my thss terminators cry.

and new fnp is annoying as hell.

las razor back and las devs pull their weight.

tfc underperformed.

 Carnage43 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
What's yours pick for the best characters?

Roboute Gulliman looks pretty powerful however is he worth 18 power points?

proably, power points are pretty loosey goosey, but I know people are suggesting gulliman is actually under costed for his pwoer level at 360 points.

I think Sicurious is a pretty solid unit. the special buff he applies to tac Marines, allowing tac marines to attack first even if charged, might (at least this early in 8th) allow you to catch someone off guard if they charge you.

Tac marines aren't going to surprise anyone in combat unless they have a big glowing power fist in there....and that wouldn't be a surprise.

My experience from my whopping 2 games last night;

Calgar is a beast. That re-roll aura is absolutely nuts. I can only imagine Guilliman's is even more overpowered. Calgar isn't bad in melee either, had him drop like 6 wounds on a Hellbrute on the charge, and kill Kharn after getting charged. The half wounds is SUPER good against D3 damage, and with the weird combat activation order now he managed to swing before kharn the second round of melee and finish him off.

Bike Captain with storm shield and power fist. I think he came out to 133 points, and was a complete tank. Took like 100+ khorne berserker attacks to drag him down, and he managed to kill 3-4 and 1-2 Bloodcrushers across multiple combat phases. The aura helped my bike plasma as well.

Guilliman is indeed very very good. His only actual weakness is hordes that can swamp him for many turns

stratigo wrote:

 Carnage43 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Gibs55 wrote:
What's yours pick for the best characters?

Roboute Gulliman looks pretty powerful however is he worth 18 power points?

proably, power points are pretty loosey goosey, but I know people are suggesting gulliman is actually under costed for his pwoer level at 360 points.

I think Sicurious is a pretty solid unit. the special buff he applies to tac Marines, allowing tac marines to attack first even if charged, might (at least this early in 8th) allow you to catch someone off guard if they charge you.

Tac marines aren't going to surprise anyone in combat unless they have a big glowing power fist in there....and that wouldn't be a surprise.

My experience from my whopping 2 games last night;

Calgar is a beast. That re-roll aura is absolutely nuts. I can only imagine Guilliman's is even more overpowered. Calgar isn't bad in melee either, had him drop like 6 wounds on a Hellbrute on the charge, and kill Kharn after getting charged. The half wounds is SUPER good against D3 damage, and with the weird combat activation order now he managed to swing before kharn the second round of melee and finish him off.

Bike Captain with storm shield and power fist. I think he came out to 133 points, and was a complete tank. Took like 100+ khorne berserker attacks to drag him down, and he managed to kill 3-4 and 1-2 Bloodcrushers across multiple combat phases. The aura helped my bike plasma as well.

Guilliman is indeed very very good. His only actual weakness is hordes that can swamp him for many turns

I've been very concerned about hordes actually, they take FOREVER to kill, and all the "good" hordes have morale immunity (Nids, orks and guard). I faced a 20 man bloodletter squad last night and that took forever to kill even without any morale tricks.

The 2 solutions are; Tarpit it with something really hard to kill (dread, character with 2+ save, bikes?) or just blast the ever living crap out of them. I personally used a 10 man Vanguard vets squad with BP/Chainswords under Calgar's aura. They carved a swath through the bloodletters.

Which brings me to my next point. Melee. Do NOT start a melee unless you are confident you can absolutely CRUSH you opponent. Grindy melees are worse then ever now, as I found myself bogged down in 1 one time, that resulted in Khorne reinforcements burying me, and secondly, disengaging hurts pretty bad. Not being able to shoot or re-assault kills the units. On the flip side, if you reduce an enemy melee unit to low levels of damage output (like 2-3 berserkers, or 1 bloodcrusher) they are significantly less of a threat, as they don't lock your unit down forever, being able to step out and finish is worth losing the shooting phase on 1 unit compared to being locked forever.

Rules leaks for Index Astartes shows that Contemptor Dreadnoughts (Relic or Mortis) no longer can take Cyclone Missile Launchers. Looks like I will need to figure out how to get mine off of my Mortis Contemptor.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rules leaks for Index Astartes shows that Contemptor Dreadnoughts (Relic or Mortis) no longer can take Cyclone Missile Launchers. Looks like I will need to figure out how to get mine off of my Mortis Contemptor.

Yeah I saw that too. The index is giving us some serious tools.

Thoughts on the Relic Sicaran?

Twin Accelerator Autocannon
48" Assault 8 S7 AP -1 D2
No penalty for Fly
6+ wound is AP -3
T7 with 14 wounds and a 3+ means it is reasonably tough too.

Add in triple Heavy Bolters for 9 S5 AP-1 D1 shots at 36" and it seems like it has a whole lot of firepower. Good to thin some hordes, shoot up flyers, etc.

The Assault 8 is nice, so it can fire on the move without penalty, even though the HBs would. All that for 260pt.

Seem like a solid inclusion?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Rules leaks for Index Astartes shows that Contemptor Dreadnoughts (Relic or Mortis) no longer can take Cyclone Missile Launchers. Looks like I will need to figure out how to get mine off of my Mortis Contemptor.

Yeah I saw that too. The index is giving us some serious tools.

In this case it took a tool away. Giant Nerf to Contemptors.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Thoughts on the Relic Sicaran?

Twin Accelerator Autocannon
48" Assault 8 S7 AP -1 D2
No penalty for Fly
6+ wound is AP -3
T7 with 14 wounds and a 3+ means it is reasonably tough too.

Add in triple Heavy Bolters for 9 S5 AP-1 D1 shots at 36" and it seems like it has a whole lot of firepower. Good to thin some hordes, shoot up flyers, etc.

The Assault 8 is nice, so it can fire on the move without penalty, even though the HBs would. All that for 260pt.

Seem like a solid inclusion?

might be points cost will tell, but it seems a better gun platform then the predator at least

So what are people thinking the go to load outs for tactical squads going to be?

 BrotherGecko wrote:
So what are people thinking the go to load outs for tactical squads going to be?

I'm running plasma guns, combi plasmas and a heavy weapon on my taticals, I've actually tried putting some heavy bolters on my tacs, to give them some extra infantry killing power while keeping my costs down.

I fielded my full-melta (MM/M, c-melta) 10 man tac squad twice on Sat. It preformed pretty much as it did in previous editions. But now with split fire. Still viable.

ML/F RTB01 beakies saw another edition on the table. Still serving. I should look up if Veterans of the Long War is still a rule and convince my opponents to let me use it for these guys. Again, bolstered by split fire.

I think flamers are no longer going to be viable in drop pods. 9” minimum distance with an 8” range is the death knell of dropping flaming death from the skies. Drop melta also took a hit to the jimmies. The MM can still get the bonus, but normal melta can’t be at half range. If you have a tac squad that wants to ride in a pod, I think plasma is your go-to pick. The other classic pod loads would probably be better in in a rhino that just moves up and pops smoke first turn.

Not sure how I feel about grav guns. They should do OK on tacs.

With heavies being able to shoot what they want independently, I think you can stick whatever you want on the squad. I always used tacs to shore up weaknesses in my lists, now more then ever.

Combis are better then ever. Putting a power sword on a sarge is now reasonably priced. Without being able to singe the sarge out in a challenge, fists are viable, if still expensive.

I'm wondering how viable the plasma/plasma cannon/combi-plasma load out is as a more defensive squad hanging back with a shooty (ier) captain.

I'm also torn on how to equip a devastator squad. I've got a 4 grav-cannon squad which looks to be okay as a counter attack drop pod unit against good save multi-wound units (like Primaris). Also drop multi-melta devastators sound possible. Lastly a 4 lascannon set up to hang back with the defensive captain as well. Not sure what sounds most useful.

With split fore everywhere, I think diversity might be nice to have. It eliminates the single point of failure issue. Not necessarily to the one of everything dev squad, but mix things up a bunch. It also lets you get some diverse firepower in range of buffs.

Speaking of which, the Primaris LTs are going to be the first thing to be built out of my new box. re-roll to wound bubble. Lots of ways to get re-rolls to hit, not many on the W side. Budget captain with one sitting back with the devs, CC one moving up with the chaplain/assaults to blend things.

The Storm Raven Gunship looks pretty good. Crazy idea could be to run three to get the +1 command point.

BrianDavion wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Thoughts on the Relic Sicaran?

Twin Accelerator Autocannon
48" Assault 8 S7 AP -1 D2
No penalty for Fly
6+ wound is AP -3
T7 with 14 wounds and a 3+ means it is reasonably tough too.

Add in triple Heavy Bolters for 9 S5 AP-1 D1 shots at 36" and it seems like it has a whole lot of firepower. Good to thin some hordes, shoot up flyers, etc.

The Assault 8 is nice, so it can fire on the move without penalty, even though the HBs would. All that for 260pt.

Seem like a solid inclusion?

might be points cost will tell, but it seems a better gun platform then the predator at least

260pt for that configuration. Seems affordable enough to include in an armored-style list maybe.

Spare Points -what to do with them? HKM or a Melta Bomb? (no option for power weapons to add for me)

Looks like MB's can only go on VV's or Assault Squads which in my case are my VV's. Do I want to risk the D3 mortal wounds from the potential 6'' blast when using a MB (4'' range) with my expensive VV's?
It seems like HKM may be the way to go as it's much easier to hit with it, but putting it on a Predator that's already my biggest target I may be seeing it blown up first turn and never getting to use it.
So, do you spread out the points a bit with the MB or go with what seems like the better all-around option in the HKM?

I think HKM might be a better choice.

its an easy throw it out there weapon T1.

MM on vanguards as cool as that is wont be using it on the drop giving the enemy more time to shoot it.

personally would have the hkm on a rhino or razorback but the pred isnt a bad idea if it isnt moving t1.

Yeah, my razorbacks are more likely to be moving, which is why I'd go with the pred.

Side question -has anyone seen anything on dozer blades for vehicles? I haven't.. I'm just assuming they're for show now? If so, I think they missed an opportunity for them to give a vehicle a melee bonus imo

They do nothing

they just look cool

it could of been a weapon option

Any one see the value in Land speeder Storms now?

The previous Infiltrate plus Scout made them an amazing value but now?

Alot of my favorite units lost a bit of shine, but I'm not complaining much. I can save points on taking Centurions (and their drop pod) CC Scouts, Thunder fire Cannons, and take more assassins instead!

 Desubot wrote:
They do nothing

they just look cool

it could of been a weapon option

Especially on the Vindicator. Siege shield should have done something cool.

Well the siege shield i would assume is what gives it the extra T maybe. i dunno.

So what are everyone's thoughts on Whirlwinds in this edition? Looking at their rules they seem like they got a pretty nifty buff this edition.