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 General Helstrom wrote:

jcd386 wrote:
My preferred option would be to instead take grav cannon devastators in the drop pod. They have more range, do the same damage as non buffed sternguard vs marines, and much more vs things with 3+ saves and more than 1 wound. You can also take 2 in one pod, halving the pod "tax." The range makes them less likely to die the next turn, and makes it easier to land them near characters for reroll auras. They arent as great for close combat, but sternguard are pretty terrible at that anyway.

That is a scary prospect indeed! It adds up to about 550 points with a jump pack captain attached (Geronimo!) but it does put out an awful lot of hurt exactly where you want it. Interesting...

Or better yet, have them drop in with Lias Issodon!

Sorry if this has been answered already, but does The Shield Eternal relic have any effect on wounds suffered that are D1? If you suffer 10 damage from bolters, do you only take 5 wounds or is each individual damage from the bolter halved and then rounded up, so still taking 10 damage? Thanks!

Have Contemptors lost the double Kheres Autocannon option? I don't see it in the Index.

Wounds are dealt separately, so the Shield Eternal does not help vs Bolters and other weapons that deal one damage.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Have Contemptors lost the double Kheres Autocannon option? I don't see it in the Index.

They didn't have that option through the GW ones as far as I know. The FW one still have your back though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Have Contemptors lost the double Kheres Autocannon option? I don't see it in the Index.

They didn't have that option through the GW ones as far as I know. The FW one still have your back though.

Its not a hard conversion to do but the plastic contemptor kit only comes with one kheres assault cannon and a cc or melta gun option.

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Have Contemptors lost the double Kheres Autocannon option? I don't see it in the Index.

They didn't have that option through the GW ones as far as I know. The FW one still have your back though.

Its not a hard conversion to do but the plastic contemptor kit only comes with one kheres assault cannon and a cc or melta gun option.

I was talking rules-wise.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Have Contemptors lost the double Kheres Autocannon option? I don't see it in the Index.

They didn't have that option through the GW ones as far as I know. The FW one still have your back though.

Its not a hard conversion to do but the plastic contemptor kit only comes with one kheres assault cannon and a cc or melta gun option.

I was talking rules-wise.

Woops i was thinking of something else for some reason.

Though i was meaning that they removed that double kheres option from the codex because other than conversions or forge world you cant take two

also speaking of it.

i wonder whats better the Multi melta or the assault cannon.

9" movement and 2+ to hit is nothing to scoff at. and you are still running around with a 2+ to hit dreadnought CC weapon at STR 14

i wonder whats better the Multi melta or the assault cannon.

Magnetize.

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Have Contemptors lost the double Kheres Autocannon option? I don't see it in the Index.

They didn't have that option through the GW ones as far as I know. The FW one still have your back though.

Its not a hard conversion to do but the plastic contemptor kit only comes with one kheres assault cannon and a cc or melta gun option.

I was talking rules-wise.

Woops i was thinking of something else for some reason.

Though i was meaning that they removed that double kheres option from the codex because other than conversions or forge world you cant take two

also speaking of it.

i wonder whats better the Multi melta or the assault cannon.

9" movement and 2+ to hit is nothing to scoff at. and you are still running around with a 2+ to hit dreadnought CC weapon at STR 14

Probably depends the target. If you have enough Lascannons in your list you'd probably go with the Assault Cannon. If not, probably the Multi-Melta (which definitely does okay on a 3+ to hit, assuming you moved of course).

Has anyone had good success using Sniper Scouts?

I'm tempted to run a unit of 10 with Camo Cloaks (or without, they'll be in ruins) with Sniper Rifles next to a Lieutenant for the potential mortal wounds (possibly with Jump Pack so I can land him wherever they ended up being deployed).

Would be with a White Scars Battalion (Outrider is good for Scars but I much prefer the extra two command points, just in case I desperately need a reroll). Have some Bikes (3 Plasma, 3 Grav and 3 Melta) and a Rhino full of 2x5 Flamer Tacticals to distract them from the Scouts picking off support characters.

Or I could just go extremely fluffy and have Land Speeders and a Stormtalon over the Scouts and Tacticals. Would certainly save on trying to find WS Rhino Doors (hopefully they'll get remade).

Speaking of, best place for White Scar transfers? Neither GW or FW seem to be doing them.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Has anyone had good success using Sniper Scouts?

I'm tempted to run a unit of 10 with Camo Cloaks (or without, they'll be in ruins) with Sniper Rifles next to a Lieutenant for the potential mortal wounds (possibly with Jump Pack so I can land him wherever they ended up being deployed).

Would be with a White Scars Battalion (Outrider is good for Scars but I much prefer the extra two command points, just in case I desperately need a reroll). Have some Bikes (3 Plasma, 3 Grav and 3 Melta) and a Rhino full of 2x5 Flamer Tacticals to distract them from the Scouts picking off support characters.

Or I could just go extremely fluffy and have Land Speeders and a Stormtalon over the Scouts and Tacticals. Would certainly save on trying to find WS Rhino Doors (hopefully they'll get remade).

Speaking of, best place for White Scar transfers? Neither GW or FW seem to be doing them.

Good for objective camping and Obsec. The Missile launcher is a must have. Park 10 on a middle field objective and your opponent needs to wipe the lot to claim it.

I havent had much luck with the snipers as I play Eldar (and their Psyker characters have an annoying ignore Mortal wounds on a 3+ rule or something like that). They'd be great for taking down Nobz and Commisars and the like (and good against Marines and CSM to take down Aura granting characters)

Unless you're actively going after enemy characters with them sniper scouts with or without cloaks are wasteful.

Being in cover with them gives you half the durability of an intercessor and less killing power vs troops.

I tend to agree that sniper scouts are a relatively poor option. they aren't useless, and you'll put a few wounds on characters, but you'll rarely kill them.

The trouble is that characters are really quite tough in 8th. If you come up against power-armoured opponents, or indeed stuff like tau commanders, then you'll rarely accomplish much.

They do have uses though. Lesser characters, like eldar warlocks and AM commissars are pretty vulnerable to being sniped, and it makes a big difference if they die. So I wouldn't say snipers are useless, just that their utility will vary according to your opponent - which means it's out of your control.

An easier way to remove a character is to have a flyer land behind them and put a few lascannon shots through them. Remember: if in doubt, shoot it with a lascannon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Errata is up.

No huge changes. Sergeants can have their combi-gravs back, and tactical sergeants can have melta bombs. Auxiliary grenade launchers now cost a point. Grenade harnesses are -1ap. A few other minor fixes.

It's just an errata, not a FAQ. If anything's unclear, tough - for now!

We got Combi-Gravs and Melta Bombs back.

I still can't believe they forgot Ironclad Assault Launchers ...twice.

And the Company Champion still doesn't have a Combat SHield in his wargear profile.

Is anyone really sure about how chapter mix-ups are handled rulewise?

An Example - ill take 2 Detachements of pure Imperial Fist Marines, 1 Detachement consisting IG Conscripts, Ultramarine Captain and IG Weapon Teams..

So.. my Captain is Ultramarine and i want him to be the Warlord - so i gain the Ultramarine Warlord Trait. Cause of my Imperial Fists Detachements i get their Chapter Tactic which is just affecting the 2 Detachements .. not the Ultra Captain.

Is that a legal composition?

 Frozocrone wrote:
Has anyone had good success using Sniper Scouts?

I recommend buffing scouts with a Lieutenant, especially against MEQ. You need to maximize every chance you can to get sixes on to-wound rolls. And to maximize the Lieutenant's cost, you'll want three or more scout squads buffed.

A single squad of scouts will usually give a poor performance. Thankfully they're troops, so you can take three and a couple HQs to get CP.

Good to see they are sill getting Eratta up quickly

Wumbaz wrote:
Is anyone really sure about how chapter mix-ups are handled rulewise?

An Example - ill take 2 Detachements of pure Imperial Fist Marines, 1 Detachement consisting IG Conscripts, Ultramarine Captain and IG Weapon Teams..

So.. my Captain is Ultramarine and i want him to be the Warlord - so i gain the Ultramarine Warlord Trait. Cause of my Imperial Fists Detachements i get their Chapter Tactic which is just affecting the 2 Detachements .. not the Ultra Captain.

Is that a legal composition?

Yes. This is legal. You can also give the Ultramarine a Ultramarine relic, and the IFs a IF relic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can also take named chapter masters and then upgrade a captain to be another one as long as he is a different chapter than they are.

What kind of mileage have y'all been getting on plasma canons on Dev sqauds?

I think they look pretty cool and wanted to try them out but it looks like they basically do the same role as Hellblasters and I already own some of those from the starter set.

Is it just me or are Devestator Centurions horribly overcosted?

Assasult Centurions come in at 50 PPM and the Devestator variants come in at 80 PPM (base cost; no weapons).

They are identical in every other way, barring weapon load out options and the slot they fill (Assault are Elite and Devs are Heavy).

Surely thats a typo for the Devestator Centurions? At 80 PPM and featuring 2 x marines with dual LC, 1 x marine with dual HB, and 3 missile launchers and you're clocking in at around 300 points. For the same price (and the same slot) you get yourself a Land Raider with the same dakka, T8 and double the wounds.

Any reason Centurions increase in price by 30 PPM simply by being in a different slot?

No they're super overcosted. Easily the biggest blunder of this edition.

It's basically a tax on not needing to move to do damage and a tax on being OP as balls last edition.

The first half of that is actually fine, you need a Stormraven or Land Raider for assault centurions but the second half is really bad.

Either way they pay too much to do what they do, if you're going to take centurions they're so expensive you basically have to invest in apothecary and ancient to make sure you can use them all game and now you've just added another 100+ points to the cost of the unit, really silly

GAdvance wrote:
It's basically a tax on not needing to move to do damage and a tax on being OP as balls last edition.

Like I said. Compare the costing of 2 x twin las and 1 x twin bolter with a Land raider (same points cost, same weapons, same slot). You get T5, 9 wounds, 2+ save vs the Raiders 16 wounds, 2+ and T8. Both can move and fire heavy weapons with no penalty, and the Raider moves faster.

The raider degrades as it loses wounds, but the Centurions degrade with every 3 lost as well (one dies).

The Centurions can benefit from CT and cover, but otherwise the Raider is clearly the better choice.

It makes no sense as well with Assault Centurions (same stats) costed 30 PPM cheaper. I cant help but feel it's a typo. If they were costed the same then 3 x Cent Devs (2 x twin LC and 1 x twin HB, 3 x Missile launchers) come out at just under 300 points instead of 360 odd. Still a lot of points, but probably ball park with the Raider.

The first half of that is actually fine, you need a Stormraven or Land Raider for assault centurions but the second half is really bad.

Assault Centurions are actually costed about right. I use (3 x Hurricane Bolter, 2 x melta, 4 x flamer) on my Salies army and they work OK. (Stormraven drop with Vulcan Hestan for the re-rolls, an apothecary to keep them up, and an ancient for a shot when they die).

Either way they pay too much to do what they do, if you're going to take centurions they're so expensive you basically have to invest in apothecary and ancient to make sure you can use them all game and now you've just added another 100+ points to the cost of the unit, really silly

Exactly.

I just cant fathom why the Devastators cost 30 PPM more than the Assault guys without weapons. They have identical stats.

jcd386 wrote:

Wumbaz wrote:
Is anyone really sure about how chapter mix-ups are handled rulewise?

An Example - ill take 2 Detachements of pure Imperial Fist Marines, 1 Detachement consisting IG Conscripts, Ultramarine Captain and IG Weapon Teams..

So.. my Captain is Ultramarine and i want him to be the Warlord - so i gain the Ultramarine Warlord Trait. Cause of my Imperial Fists Detachements i get their Chapter Tactic which is just affecting the 2 Detachements .. not the Ultra Captain.

Is that a legal composition?

Yes. This is legal. You can also give the Ultramarine a Ultramarine relic, and the IFs a IF relic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can also take named chapter masters and then upgrade a captain to be another one as long as he is a different chapter than they are.

Not quite. Your warlord unlocks relics. You get a space marine relic if your warlord is a space marine. You don't get one relic per detachment.

You can have two chapter masters but you can only use the stratagem once. You can have say Shrike and then upgrade an imperial fist guy to CM.

In the example above, the imperial fiats obviously wouldn't benefit from the ultramarine captain's aura. And he wouldn't get his chapter tactic due to not being in a detachment of only ultramarines - though he'd have access to the sanctic halo if you wanted. So it's a legal set up but not an especially useful one.

Personally I'd keep all my marines in marine detachments and maybe have something like an inquisitor, tempestor prime or (most logically with conscripts) commissar lord lead an allied detachment.

Pre game strategems aren't limited as far as I know.

Has anyone else had good luck with a trio of Quad-Las Predators souped up with Killshot and a Chapter Master/Lieutenant combo? It's expensive and very glass-cannony, but the times when I managed to actually shoot it off, I've consistently gotten a MASSIVE return on my investment.

I'll put it this way: Without this setup, a Predator will do 5 wounds to a T6/7/8 vehicle with a 3+ save.
With this setup, that number skyrockets to a whopping 12. More than double the damage. (Heck, even the Storm Bolter will wound T7 vehicles on 4s and do 2 damage, and the ability buffs Hunter-Killer missiles as well for extra potency.)

With three of these souped-up Predators all working together, putting out 12 shots that wound on 2s and get +1 Damage, I've had great success... As long as my opponent doesn't get wise and blow up a Predator before I have the opportunity to fire.

It's great for games that aren't Hyper competitive.

stratigo wrote:
Pre game strategems aren't limited as far as I know.

Not normally, but the chapter master one can only be used once. It says so on the stratagem itself. It also says you can only have one chapter master from any given chapter.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Has anyone else had good luck with a trio of Quad-Las Predators souped up with Killshot and a Chapter Master/Lieutenant combo? It's expensive and very glass-cannony, but the times when I managed to actually shoot it off, I've consistently gotten a MASSIVE return on my investment.

I'll put it this way: Without this setup, a Predator will do 5 wounds to a T6/7/8 vehicle with a 3+ save.
With this setup, that number skyrockets to a whopping 12. More than double the damage. (Heck, even the Storm Bolter will wound T7 vehicles on 4s and do 2 damage, and the ability buffs Hunter-Killer missiles as well for extra potency.)

With three of these souped-up Predators all working together, putting out 12 shots that wound on 2s and get +1 Damage, I've had great success... As long as my opponent doesn't get wise and blow up a Predator before I have the opportunity to fire.

I haven't, but a friend has run them with autocannon turrets. He's had similar results. Massive damage is dealt, but they suffer if picked on.

Point for point, it looks like predators using killshot are among the best AT damage dealers available to marines. Storm of fire raises that even higher. But yes, they are somewhat vulnerable to getting one of the predators taken out. This formation forces you to castle up a bit, which is a bit limiting.

I guess one solution would be to take more predators. They seem decent even without the stratagem. That becomes a lot of tanks though.

Mandragola wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Pre game strategems aren't limited as far as I know.

Not normally, but the chapter master one can only be used once. It says so on the stratagem itself. It also says you can only have one chapter master from any given chapter.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Has anyone else had good luck with a trio of Quad-Las Predators souped up with Killshot and a Chapter Master/Lieutenant combo? It's expensive and very glass-cannony, but the times when I managed to actually shoot it off, I've consistently gotten a MASSIVE return on my investment.

I'll put it this way: Without this setup, a Predator will do 5 wounds to a T6/7/8 vehicle with a 3+ save.
With this setup, that number skyrockets to a whopping 12. More than double the damage. (Heck, even the Storm Bolter will wound T7 vehicles on 4s and do 2 damage, and the ability buffs Hunter-Killer missiles as well for extra potency.)

With three of these souped-up Predators all working together, putting out 12 shots that wound on 2s and get +1 Damage, I've had great success... As long as my opponent doesn't get wise and blow up a Predator before I have the opportunity to fire.

I haven't, but a friend has run them with autocannon turrets. He's had similar results. Massive damage is dealt, but they suffer if picked on.


Point for point, it looks like predators using killshot are among the best AT damage dealers available to marines. Storm of fire raises that even higher. But yes, they are somewhat vulnerable to getting one of the predators taken out. This formation forces you to castle up a bit, which is a bit limiting.

I guess one solution would be to take more predators. They seem decent even without the stratagem. That becomes a lot of tanks though.

Hmmm, it seems you are right. Odd limitation that is.