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How are people running their attack bikes nowadays? With speed and 4 wounds i like them quite a bit with melta but perhaps the heavy bolter is better. Thoughts?

 buddha wrote:
How are people running their attack bikes nowadays? With speed and 4 wounds i like them quite a bit with melta but perhaps the heavy bolter is better. Thoughts?

I think they might have a place in a salamanders list, as the rerolls are very good for the multi melta. The heavy bolters might be good for the heavy bolter strategem, but that's probably about it.

They will definitely die the first time someone looks at them, so it's definitely important to have lots of other threats on the board and not to expect a ton from them imo.

jcd386 wrote:

 buddha wrote:
How are people running their attack bikes nowadays? With speed and 4 wounds i like them quite a bit with melta but perhaps the heavy bolter is better. Thoughts?

I think they might have a place in a salamanders list, as the rerolls are very good for the multi melta. The heavy bolters might be good for the heavy bolter strategem, but that's probably about it.

They will definitely die the first time someone looks at them, so it's definitely important to have lots of other threats on the board and not to expect a ton from them imo.

I think they have different uses. With heavy bolters they are cheap objective-grabbers and brigade-fillers. With meltas they are a cheap-ish melta shot, which I'd probably only recommend for salamanders due to the rerolls. Otherwise they are unlikely to achieve much of anything.

Helbrecht has a rule that gives him +D3 attacks on the charge.

If you use the stratagem to activate him again in the fight phase, does he retain those +D3 attacks or no? I don't have the Dex so I don't know what the gem is called...

I've had a quick sift through this thread and didn't find much, how do people think that a redemptor would work best for a Salamanders army? I love the look of the Gatling cannon but I think (I'm answering my own question) that the rerolls would be wasted on a high volume, low damage gun. Whereas the overheating of the plasma can be mitigated somewhat by the rerolls?

Of course from a competitive standpoint the feedback is to not take a redemptor, but rule of cool wins out here IMO (he says whilst posting about the best load out)

Quick question about taking something like a Relic Spartan Assault Tank:

As of right now it is basically impossible to include one in any detachment right? The only non-relic Lord of War unit is G-man and the super-heavy detachment needs minimum 3 units...?

Im sure its been run by here at least once but how do you guys feel about the Heavy plasma incinerators?

im doing a 2k full primarus army and i have yet to glue on the back packs for the hell blasters.

with only 1 repulsive i want to do a 5 man with the heavy.

a 5 man if overcharging should be able to do 4ish wounds to a t8 vehicle a turn. its not very good but i cant think of any other options other than moar repulsors.

I think rapid fire seems better due to cost. T8 vehicles are too rare.

sossen wrote:
I think rapid fire seems better due to cost. T8 vehicles are too rare.

Not in my crew :(

landraiders are pretty common place.

i guess a 5man with the rapid fire in rapid fire should do 6 wounds. but transports is at a premium :/

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Quick question about taking something like a Relic Spartan Assault Tank:

As of right now it is basically impossible to include one in any detachment right? The only non-relic Lord of War unit is G-man and the super-heavy detachment needs minimum 3 units...?

According to the book, yes you're right. Forgeworld published a FAQ fairly soon after loads of us pointed out that it was quite useful if you could actually include their models in your army, legally. Here's the FAQ: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/40K_8th_ed_Update_Imperial_Armour_Index_Forces_of_the_Adeptus_Astartes_ver_1.2.pdf

So now the rule is this:

Page 4 – Additional Rules, Relic
Change the first paragraph to read:
‘If your army is Battle-forged, no Detachment can contain more Relic units than it does non-Relic units of the same Battlefield Role. You can, however, include a single Relic Lord of War unit in your army even if it contains no non-Relic Lord of War units (you cannot include second and subsequent Relic Lord of War units unless they are taken in a Detachment that contains at least as many non-Relic Lord of War units).’

 Desubot wrote:

sossen wrote:
I think rapid fire seems better due to cost. T8 vehicles are too rare.

Not in my crew :(

landraiders are pretty common place.

i guess a 5man with the rapid fire in rapid fire should do 6 wounds. but transports is at a premium :/

I tend to agree that the rapid fire, or even the assault, versions are better than the heavy one.

Ultimately, more shots are nearly always better than fewer, higher strength shots. With more shots you can hit a wider variety of targets. Rapid fire plasma guns will do more damage against virtually any target than heavy ones. The only situation in which they'll do less damage is against T8 or 9 targets, outside of 15".

Mandragola wrote:
Page 4 – Additional Rules, Relic
Change the first paragraph to read:
‘If your army is Battle-forged, no Detachment can contain more Relic units than it does non-Relic units of the same Battlefield Role. You can, however, include a single Relic Lord of War unit in your army even if it contains no non-Relic Lord of War units (you cannot include second and subsequent Relic Lord of War units unless they are taken in a Detachment that contains at least as many non-Relic Lord of War units).’

TY for the clarification kind sir.

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Quick question about taking something like a Relic Spartan Assault Tank:

As of right now it is basically impossible to include one in any detachment right? The only non-relic Lord of War unit is G-man and the super-heavy detachment needs minimum 3 units...?

Auxillary detachment lets you field anything.

Malifice wrote:

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Quick question about taking something like a Relic Spartan Assault Tank:

As of right now it is basically impossible to include one in any detachment right? The only non-relic Lord of War unit is G-man and the super-heavy detachment needs minimum 3 units...?

Auxillary detachment lets you field anything.

It really doesn't. For a start, there's no slot for a superheavy in an auxiliary detachment. And since you only get a single unit, that unit can never be a forgeworld relic. You can only have a relic if you've already got a non-relic of the same battlefield role in the detachment, which is impossible in a detachment of only one unit. You therefore cannot take something like a relic leviathan dreadnought in an auxiliary detachment, and you can't take any superheavy - though of course you can just take the superheavy auxiliary detachment in that case. Is that what you meant?

Malifice's question was answered already above. Forgeworld published an errata.

 Weazel wrote:
Helbrecht has a rule that gives him +D3 attacks on the charge.

If you use the stratagem to activate him again in the fight phase, does he retain those +D3 attacks or no? I don't have the Dex so I don't know what the gem is called...

I would say no, as he's already locked in combat. That stratagem happens at the end of the fight phase as well, so again, I would say no.

 Weazel wrote:
Helbrecht has a rule that gives him +D3 attacks on the charge.

If you use the stratagem to activate him again in the fight phase, does he retain those +D3 attacks or no? I don't have the Dex so I don't know what the gem is called...

I think the answer is yes based on the wording: "High Marshal Helbrecht can make d3 additional attacks with this weapon if he charged in his turn."

He still counts as having charged that turn so if he fights again with the stratagem he should be able to use this weapon ability again. It's similar to the World Eater Khorne Berzerker rule where they get +1 attack if they charged that turn thanks to the WE CT, this extra attack is applied both times Berzerkers fight in the corresponding melee phase.

sossen wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Helbrecht has a rule that gives him +D3 attacks on the charge.

If you use the stratagem to activate him again in the fight phase, does he retain those +D3 attacks or no? I don't have the Dex so I don't know what the gem is called...

I think the answer is yes based on the wording: "High Marshal Helbrecht can make d3 additional attacks with this weapon if he charged in his turn."

He still counts as having charged that turn so if he fights again with the stratagem he should be able to use this weapon ability again. It's similar to the World Eater Khorne Berzerker rule where they get +1 attack if they charged that turn thanks to the WE CT, this extra attack is applied both times Berzerkers fight in the corresponding melee phase.

Agreed. He clearly does get the extra d3 attacks. Did he charge this turn? Yes he did.

What do you guys think about a terminator chapter master with a shield eternal, and the third Space Marine World Trait, boosted by a librarian (2nd power).?
It seems very resilient.
I'm hesitating with this or a terminator chapter master with the shield eternal and a lc or thunder hammer and the 6th or 2nd WT, boosted by the librarian, too.
He is more aggressive and dangerous, but less resilient

The lightning claws would hurt many things on 3+ with the 6th wt or the psy power, rerolling to hit and to wound (thanks to the lc and the chapter master stratagem), with between 5 and 6A.

The thunder hammer would be S10, rerolling to hit (hitting on 2+ thanks to the 6th wt), and do 5A with the power on.

The "defensive version" would have T5, 7HP, halving the damages sustained, and healing on 6+.

It seems powerful, but costly if I account for the librarian cost.

I'm leaning toward the second version (lc and shield eternal, it combines a good resilience and a good offensive output and the 6th wt, without taking the librarian in consideration.

 godardc wrote:
What do you guys think about a terminator chapter master with a shield eternal, and the third Space Marine World Trait, boosted by a librarian (2nd power).?
It seems very resilient.
I'm hesitating with this or a terminator chapter master with the shield eternal and a lc or thunder hammer and the 6th or 2nd WT, boosted by the librarian, too.
He is more aggressive and dangerous, but less resilient

The lightning claws would hurt many things on 3+ with the 6th wt or the psy power, rerolling to hit and to wound (thanks to the lc and the chapter master stratagem), with between 5 and 6A.

The thunder hammer would be S10, rerolling to hit (hitting on 2+ thanks to the 6th wt), and do 5A with the power on.

The "defensive version" would have T5, 7HP, halving the damages sustained, and healing on 6+.

It seems powerful, but costly if I account for the librarian cost.

I'm leaning toward the second version (lc and shield eternal, it combines a good resilience and a good offensive output and the 6th wt, without taking the librarian in consideration.

As cool as that is, when are you ever going to throw your HQ so far forward that this will ever become that necessary.
asides from counter charging REALLY hard against some very big and beefy unit or model i cant see it being practical.

and since that is the case, id say thunder hammer. tons of attacks, hits like a truck and should kill anything it looks at.

I don't see a ton of point in putting that many points into a captain. In most SM lists, you mainly want them to give you rerolls of 1 to hit. I like giving them a thunder hammer since it becomes very efficient with 4 attacks, rerolling 1s, and hitting on 3s. I've had my hammer captain kill a greater daemon, finish off a wraithknight, and beat up smaller marine units, and that works pretty well.

Here's a batrep with an after action report from my last game.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/736757.page#9560244

jcd386 wrote:
I don't see a ton of point in putting that many points into a captain. In most SM lists, you mainly want them to give you rerolls of 1 to hit. I like giving them a thunder hammer since it becomes very efficient with 4 attacks, rerolling 1s, and hitting on 3s. I've had my hammer captain kill a greater daemon, finish off a wraithknight, and beat up smaller marine units, and that works pretty well.

Ok I understand.

And what stratagem do you find the most useful ?
My current list has 7CP, it is not a lot. I have to be careful when spending them. What about you ?

The reroll a dice one is obviously a good one, and the interrupting combat can be game changing. So don't forget about those.

For characters, fighting a second time, or fighting when they die can be quite strong, especially with a thunderhammer captain.

Auspex scan can be good, but it's more of a deterrant than anything else imo, as a smart enemy just won't drop close to things that can really use it well.

Kill shot is good, but you need 3 preds. Nothing wrong with it, but you have to plan for it in your list. This goes for most of the other unit or weapon specific strategems as well imo.

I think chapter master is actually quite good if you have a lot of shooting to do. It is expensive, though.

Relics of the chapter seems good for adding the Santic halo if you are facing a lot of psykers.

Orbital bombardment seems good if you have a lot of CP and you can catch a lot of units. Not something to plan for, but you can keep an eye out for good times to use it.

Auspex is clutch.

a relic banner is great fun.

line breaker can be good but it can also easily be counter deployed or distrupted. its nice if you want to snipe a character though 5+ though sucks :/

Auspex is good, but your opponent has to walk into it.

The relic banner is great, but if you are taking an ancient i would assume it's gonna be your free relic.

So, question - is there ever a reason to take a multimelta over a twin-lascannon on a Dread?

From the mathhammer I've read the multimelta competes *reasonably* well against a lascannon shot-for-shot even accounting for range issues, but being Heavy 2 makes the twin-las a strictly superior choice doesn't it?

TBH I hope I'm missing something since I'd much rather arm my Chaplain Dread with a multimelta as it seems more thematically appropriate, but even I have a limit how big of a gameplay hit I'm willing to take for the sake of lore.

Well, Twin Lascannons are far more expensive than a Multi-Melta. So that's one big reason to take the latter.

Yeah, a Multi-Melta is helping you buy other stuff if you already have Lascannons elsewhere.

Hi All,

quick question, on a whirlwind, would you take the castellan or vengeance launcher?

Cheers

gkos wrote:
Hi All,

quick question, on a whirlwind, would you take the castellan or vengeance launcher?

Cheers

Vengeance or if you can, a forge world variant like the scorpius.

gkos wrote:
Hi All,

quick question, on a whirlwind, would you take the castellan or vengeance launcher?

Cheers

Been trying vengeance. Considering swapping to the hyperios. Seems like a decent weapon, not as powerful as the asscan razorback, but much more flexible. Pretty decent for picking on artillery units, hiding vehicles, etc.