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What do people think of Command Squads with Storm Bolters and Chainswords? 18 points a pop gets you three attacks and four shots at 12". They outshoot Sternguard against anything with 4+ or worse armour and do the same damage to MEQ (but are 2 PPM more expensive than Sternguard) and get as many attacks as Vanguard Veterans. They seem like one of the better anti-horde choices in the book, particularly when in range of various auras.

Dunno. you lose out on special issue bolters for just storm bolters.

if i had to do command squads it would be for the storm shield and CC or special weapons though that increases their price by a lot.

(i just realized by command squad you mean company vet squad eh?)

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What do people think of Command Squads with Storm Bolters and Chainswords? 18 points a pop gets you three attacks and four shots at 12". They outshoot Sternguard against anything with 4+ or worse armour and do the same damage to MEQ (but are 2 PPM more expensive than Sternguard) and get as many attacks as Vanguard Veterans. They seem like one of the better anti-horde choices in the book, particularly when in range of various auras.

They're not 2ppm than sternguard. Both are 18 with their wargear.

Special issue boltgun and storm bolters do equal damage to 3+ saves, SIB does better vs 2+, and SB do better against 4+ or worse.

Vets with SB and chainsword are one of our most cost efficient horde clearing unit, though they're not very durable for their cost. Aggressors and asscan razorbacks are both better in shooting, though the vets get the 3 attacks each (4 on the sgt) in combat.

Sternguard with bolters are decent at putting some wounds on higher T if you use the strategem. 20 shots averages about 4.5 wounds vs T7 3+.

I brought them up a few pages back. I think they are viable. You could easily run 5 squads of 2 in a rhino, gives you extra attacks from all the sgts you get, and flexibility in movement. Though you would give up a lot more KP. Vets are a really solid unit in general with their extreme flexibility. The ability to eat wounds for chars is also fantastic.

 Desubot wrote:
Dunno. you lose out on special issue bolters for just storm bolters.

if i had to do command squads it would be for the storm shield and CC or special weapons though that increases their price by a lot.

(i just realized by command squad you mean company vet squad eh?)

Company Veteran Squads, yes. My mind's stuck in the 4th ed BT Codex terminology.

I'm honestly not sold on the idea of running units for specific stratagems, you lose out on flexibility that way. I'd rather have a solid unit that performs regardless of whether they get CPs to spend or not, and Company Vets seem to fill that role. This leaves CPs for critical rerolls, messing with enemy charges etc.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What do people think of Command Squads with Storm Bolters and Chainswords? 18 points a pop gets you three attacks and four shots at 12". They outshoot Sternguard against anything with 4+ or worse armour and do the same damage to MEQ (but are 2 PPM more expensive than Sternguard) and get as many attacks as Vanguard Veterans. They seem like one of the better anti-horde choices in the book, particularly when in range of various auras.

The issue for me is Vanguard will already have the natural mobility and the threat range for Sternguard is greater.

You're trying to accomplish both with one unit and it doesn't work out too well because of that limited mobility.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
What do people think of Command Squads with Storm Bolters and Chainswords? 18 points a pop gets you three attacks and four shots at 12". They outshoot Sternguard against anything with 4+ or worse armour and do the same damage to MEQ (but are 2 PPM more expensive than Sternguard) and get as many attacks as Vanguard Veterans. They seem like one of the better anti-horde choices in the book, particularly when in range of various auras.

The issue for me is Vanguard will already have the natural mobility and the threat range for Sternguard is greater.

You're trying to accomplish both with one unit and it doesn't work out too well because of that limited mobility.

Unless you give them JP, VV and CV are almost identical. If you give the VV JP, you can give the CV SB, and that quadrouples their shooting output compared to the VV while retaining the same melee damage. You can put them in a razorback, which is easily top 3 units in the codex atm, and use them for horde control. Considering hordes are one of our bigger weaknesses and the strongest builds atm, I think it's a viable build. Either way, you give up marginal mobility for the ability to embark in razorbacks, which you should be taking anyways.

We should be taking Razorbacks yeah, but Razorbacks are garbage as transports. All but 1 weapon option is taking that -1 to hit the moment it moves, and you want the thing firing at full power at all times. If you really want to transport, use a Rhino.

Ergo, it makes sense to just use JP Vanguard.

Razors have been working just fine as transports. If I'm going to be paying points for a Rhino anyways, and am moving 6 or fewer models, I'd rather pay to upgrade it to a Razor, even if it's isn't as efficient when moving and shooting.

Got a quick question for you guys regarding my list. I'd post it on the decklist forum, but it's more about the last details with weapon options.

My 1500 list is as follows:

I'm wondering if the Razorback Storm Bolters are the best choice. I have the option of removing them and either
- Giving each Scout Squad another Sniper Rifle
or
-Giving my Chaplain a Plasma Pistol and each Vet Squad an additional Power Axe.

Anyone Have any suggestion as to which is better? I was planning on using Templars, but Fists is also an option (I'm running a 30K Fists force with Templar Brethren leading the way).

Mortarion's Herald wrote:
Got a quick question for you guys regarding my list. I'd post it on the decklist forum, but it's more about the last details with weapon options.

My 1500 list is as follows:

Spoiler:

Captain: Teeth of Terra, Storm Shield
Chaplain
5-man Company Vet Squad: Storm Shield (2), Power Swords (4), Power Axe, Plasma Pistol
Razorback, Twin AC, Storm Bolter
5-man Company Vet Squad: Storm Shield (2), Power Swords (4), Power Axe, Plasma Pistol
Razorback, Twin AC, Storm Bolter
Contemptor Dread, Dread CC and Kheres AC
5-man Scout Squad, Camo Cloaks, Sniper Rifle (4)
5-man Scout Squad, Camo Cloaks, Sniper Rifle (4)
5-man Dev Squad, 2 ML/2 LC
Razorback, Twin LC, Storm Bolter
5-man Dev Squad, 2 ML/2 LC
Razorback, Twin LC, Storm Bolter

I'm wondering if the Razorback Storm Bolters are the best choice. I have the option of removing them and either
- Giving each Scout Squad another Sniper Rifle
or
-Giving my Chaplain a Plasma Pistol and each Vet Squad an additional Power Axe.

Anyone Have any suggestion as to which is better? I was planning on using Templars, but Fists is also an option (I'm running a 30K Fists force with Templar Brethren leading the way).

Storm bolters are still bolters they are cheap and you can chuck them on vehicles

but ask your self if you have enough basic infantry dakka and need more cool things in other places.

you are going templars so you probably want to go choppy. id get them power weapons on the vets.

 Desubot wrote:
Storm bolters are still bolters they are cheap and you can chuck them on vehicles

but ask your self if you have enough basic infantry dakka and need more cool things in other places.

you are going templars so you probably want to go choppy. id get them power weapons on the vets.

That's what I've been thinking, honestly, I just wanted someone to help confirm it's probably better to buff out the main force of my army over the additional shots given by the Storm Bolters.

Looking at it, I might even drop the Twin LC instead, going full Twin AC on the Razorbacks. Those 30 points let me keep the Storm Bolters as well as add the Plasma Pistol, the Power Axes, the Sniper Rifles, and points left over for Cherubs for the Devs. I'd just have to rely on the Devs hitting the armor hard enough.

I just don't like the loadout on the Veterens.

Id drop the ss on the captain (4++ seems fine to me),

I think IF CT and warlord trait is gonna be the way to go here. Maybe also think about upgrading the captain to a chapter master for more better dakka.

Im honestly not sure the vets will do much. I get wanting to have a cc element, but can't see them effecting too much.

I'd try to fit an ancient in there for the devastators if you can.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I just don't like the loadout on the Veterens.

jcd386 wrote:
Id drop the ss on the captain (4++ seems fine to me),

I think IF CT and warlord trait is gonna be the way to go here. Maybe also think about upgrading the captain to a chapter master for more better dakka.

Im honestly not sure the vets will do much. I get wanting to have a cc element, but can't see them effecting too much.

I'd try to fit an ancient in there for the devastators if you can.

I totally get it. I originally built Templar Brethren with 30K in mind, but when it decided to be 7.5 instead of moving to 8e, I decided to make what I had work so that I could actually play games instead of watching others. I figured I'd build the list and get some use out of them as vets, have a fluffy 30K Legion and hopefully not get rolled. I will eventually be replacing them with jump pack Vets, though probably with similar loadouts. Thankfully most of the people I'm going to playing with are just starting out as well.

How would you guys load out your Vets? I did originally have a the melee Ancient instead of the Chaplain. I don't have my Codex with me at the moment but I remember them being the same point cost, though you did say for the Devs
Can't help but chuckle at all the help you guys are giving me (which I really appreciate!). My list thread got zero replies.

Honestly I see them as a suicide unit like Sternguard, except Sternguard can be built for other purposes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I understand your list thread pain. I got zilch out of mine.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Honestly I see them as a suicide unit like Sternguard, except Sternguard can be built for other purposes.

Ah, well if they were not already built, I would consider other options.

My own army is an IF 30k force. My observation is that not all units are good for both 30k and 40k. Rather than have units that are bad in both, I have some guys who I only use in one system or the other.

So for example I've got 20 Cataphractii, but they've got all kinds of stuff they wouldn't be allowed in 40k. I've made a few with combo-bolter and fist so I can at least field a squad, and I've got a converted praetor with TH/SS who I use as Lysander. In 30k he's just a sergeant.

But for 40k troops I just use intercessors. My 30k veterans (I run pride of the legion) are great, but they have the wrong weapons to be tactical marines. Rather than change them and make them bad for 30k, I've just got intercessors.

That's what I'd recommend you do. Leave your Templar brethren alone. Don't buy scouts, which are awful in 30k and not great in 40k. Get some intercessors for 40k.

There are plenty of units that cross over well. Contemptors are fantastic in both, as are normal dreadnoughts. Various forgeworld tanks and planes work well too. Predators are good, and FWare now doing a tempting deal to buy 3 for £150 (still way more than the FW ones of course!). Xiphon interceptors are probably better in 40k than 30k. Cataphractii with storm bolters and fists are good in both settings.

I'd ditch the razorbacks, or possibly not stick the turret mount on the back so you could switch them to rhinos for 30k.

Uh Scouts are great in 30k and 40k. What are you smoking?

Hi, was wondering where people were placing the primaris characters? I've got units my normal marine characters go in (including a super command squad of 5 vets champion ancient apothecary captain and lieutenant in a land raider) but I'm wanting to get a primaris contingent and liked the look of all the models so wondered where they worked best?

They don't have bikes or jump packs. So If you were planning to camp a HQ in one single spot with long range units, you might as well use the Primaris because the extra wound helps. I assume they have an extra wound. I'm out of town and can't check.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Uh Scouts are great in 30k and 40k. What are you smoking?

"Scouts" don't exist in 30k. Recon squads in scout armour with sniper rifles and camo cloaks are spectacularly overpriced in 30k. If you think 2 points is too much for a camo cloak in 40k, try 5ppm in 30k and 5ppm for their rifles, on top of a base cost way above that of a 40k scout.

They also can't have heavy weapons, meaning that if you build a guy with a missile launcher you won't be able to use him in 30k.

Also, 30k recon squads are support squads, so you can't use them to fill compulsory troops slots (unless you're taking the recon company rite of war). You'll need some other troops for 30k anyway.

And this is my key point. To make a squad be legal in both systems you often have to compromise their effectiveness in both systems. That tends not to be the case with vehicles, but for infantry it very often is. So it's better to have vehicles that work in both, but accept that you'll have to have different infantry in 30k and 40k.

Mandragola wrote:
And this is my key point. To make a squad be legal in both systems you often have to compromise their effectiveness in both systems. That tends not to be the case with vehicles, but for infantry it very often is. So it's better to have vehicles that work in both, but accept that you'll have to have different infantry in 30k and 40k.

I'm not building a 30K army; I've ditched the plan entirely as no one to my knowledge plays 30K around here, and building a 30K IF Legion using 40K rules. That being said, the group in my area are all starting out as well, so it's not too competitive, and the models are too cool (and expensive ) not to use, even if they aren't the most effective use of points. I'm also in the middle of magnetizing the Rhinos to turn them into Razorbacks and Predators, so I can get the best of all three.

Mortarion's Herald wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
And this is my key point. To make a squad be legal in both systems you often have to compromise their effectiveness in both systems. That tends not to be the case with vehicles, but for infantry it very often is. So it's better to have vehicles that work in both, but accept that you'll have to have different infantry in 30k and 40k.

I'm not building a 30K army; I've ditched the plan entirely as no one to my knowledge plays 30K around here, and building a 30K IF Legion using 40K rules. That being said, the group in my area are all starting out as well, so it's not too competitive, and the models are too cool (and expensive ) not to use, even if they aren't the most effective use of points. I'm also in the middle of magnetizing the Rhinos to turn them into Razorbacks and Predators, so I can get the best of all three.

Fair enough. My advice is to use your Templar Brethren as characters and Sergeants in that case, depending on how many of them you've got.

Can anyone confirm that PF are now 12 pts and Drop pods are now 95 when taking the SB option?

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Can anyone confirm that PF are now 12 pts and Drop pods are now 95 when taking the SB option?

We could but im fairly sure Dakka isnt a substitute for the book. will say it is cheaper from the index.

What do people think of Landspeeder Storm? I've always loved the model.

Been playing against 1-2 LSS a lot lately and they do pretty well. Good speed, solid shooting, not quite threatening enough to be the first target of heavy weapons if there's tanks around, scouts are a fine, cheap payload for grabbing objectives. It's no razorback but I still like them.

 argonak wrote:
What do people think of Landspeeder Storm? I've always loved the model.

I used it all the time last edition because it was stupid cheap, but those extra points add up now. Entirely up to you but it isn't necessary for Scouts to function.

My issue with the LSS is it sort of defeats the purpose of bringing scouts in a list, which i see as deploying outside of the deployment zone to protect from deep strike and first turn charges.

I've tried a Storm a bit since I bought it right before 8th rules hit. I like being able to deep strike it in to their deployment zone or on an objective late if I don't need the scouts as my own protection. However, the fact it costs nearly the same as a twin AC razorback for like half the firepower and survivability make me constantly wonder if the occasional use is worth the cost.