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Dam, I dont have the codex yet, so I was just playing around with list concepts. Thought it was a bit broken

 Lance845 wrote:
Ok, what about this set up for my Crusaders

Troops

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Power Sword
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Melta

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Power Sword
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Melta

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Multi Melta
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Plasma

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Multi Melta
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Plasma


With this set up I would end up with 4 initiates 2 Meltas 1 Multi Melta 1 Power Sword and 2 Sword Brothers with a Power Sword 1 with Combi Melta and 1 with Combi Plasma inside of reach LRC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also side question. I noticed that Tac squads don't actually come with heavy weapon components. Do people just insert devestators into Tac/crusader squads?

I've been running plasma, plas can, and combi plas in asscan razorbacks to good effect. Though I'm leaning towards changing the plas can out for a heavy bolter, it's a very cost efficient gun. I think its better than standard PC d3 shots, but overcharging is extremely strong with rerolls so not sure yet. Power swords are a good investment on sgts for their cost.

 Lance845 wrote:
Ok, what about this set up for my Crusaders

Troops

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Power Sword
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Melta

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Power Sword
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Melta

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Multi Melta
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Plasma

Crusader Squad
-Initiates x2
-Initiate w/ Multi Melta
-Initiate w/ Melta
-Sword Brother w/ Power Sword Combi Plasma


With this set up I would end up with 4 initiates 2 Meltas 1 Multi Melta 1 Power Sword and 2 Sword Brothers with a Power Sword 1 with Combi Melta and 1 with Combi Plasma inside of reach LRC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also side question. I noticed that Tac squads don't actually come with heavy weapon components. Do people just insert devestators into Tac/crusader squads?

It's been a long time since I had to buy the actual tac squad box, but that's how I remember doing it back in the day. 2 squads of tacticals and a box of devs, pick your options and work from there. Now days it's easy to buy just the bits you want online, so buying a box of 10 Marines and then buying 10 missile launcher bits (for example) is pretty easy to do.

As for the crusaders, if you are putting them all in the land raiders then you look good to me, fluffy and effective. If you planned on 2 of the 4 squads staying out those should stay with Las cannons and hang back.

Gl with the list, let us know how it fairs.

Not really tactics related, but those of you that are looking for a way to get Auxiliary Grenade Launcher and for your Intercessor Squads should take a look at the Grenade Harness from the Tartatos Terminators kit. Assemble the grenade harness then cut the launchers off the center piece. Attach them under the bare of the Bolt Rifle and VOILA! Auxiliary Grenade Launchers.

Disclaimer: This is not my idea, I saw it on B&C from user Hersir.

This will save me some cash since I won't need to buy two AGL bits off eBay anymore to make sure every squad of Intercessors has an AGL. At one point each, why wouldn't you take them? It basically gives the Intercessors an knock-off missile launcher/special weapon. The Frag round is great for dealing with hordes, and the Krak round does well enough against big stuff. Though once the Intercessors are in Rapid Fire range, the regular bolt rifle shots might be a better option against many targets.

Disclaimer #2: I have spent the last three weeks in an austere environment for Army training, so I am trying to catch up on this thread.

The Cataphractii Grenade Harness will work just as well.

Pics on that? That sounds neat.

I'm personally gonna make my Intercessors just Mk3 Marines with Shields, and the Launcher guy will use the Combi-Bolter from the Headhunters that FW sells.

This is the image the user posted. Again, not mine. But I am definitely doing this for my two Dark Imperium Squads.

What small flyer do people enjoy using more, the Stormhawk or the Stormtalon?

The Stormtalon.

Stormtalon, although the hawk does well in a FLY-heavy meta.

On another note, my preference for a fast attack-based list is really hurting in this edition. It feels like with the game so killy, going for points (maelstrom) through speed and positioning is redundant, particularly with the SM objective cards removing half the Scure Objective X.

So out goes my bikes, attack bikes and speeders; keeping the vanguard and stormtalons as their damage output is pretty decent. Little sad about that. Currently painting up devastators for a more static, high-damage-style list.

Really don't understand why we lost the ability to take bikes as troops under certain conditions when Chaos still get their cult elites as troops. Oh well.

Yeah that's weird. On one hand, it's fine as you can just take outrider detachments. But then chaos could just take vanguards, couldn't they?

I guess you could argue that bikes still shouldn't get objective secured, because that's not really what they are for. I can see cult troops doing that - with the possible exception of zerkers.

I suppose we have Primaris instead. Just not a fan of sitting on one spot all game.

 Flood wrote:
I suppose we have Primaris instead. Just not a fan of sitting on one spot all game.

Primaris stuff isn't all that static. Only the heavy intercessors and hellblasters have any reason to stand still, and they are both terrible. Inceptors are outright fast.

But it's true that the older fast attack choices have suffered in this edition. I wouldn't field something like an assault squad now, and vehicles like land speeders seem seriously overpriced. Bike squads and attack bikes seem ok though - with the latter making a good way to fill out a brigade and do maelstrom missions.

Mandragola wrote:

 Flood wrote:
I suppose we have Primaris instead. Just not a fan of sitting on one spot all game.

Primaris stuff isn't all that static. Only the heavy intercessors and hellblasters have any reason to stand still, and they are both terrible. Inceptors are outright fast.

But it's true that the older fast attack choices have suffered in this edition. I wouldn't field something like an assault squad now, and vehicles like land speeders seem seriously overpriced. Bike squads and attack bikes seem ok though - with the latter making a good way to fill out a brigade and do maelstrom missions.

I don't think the Heavy Intercessors are terrible but they're definitely not great. The exchange is free at least...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

 Flood wrote:
I suppose we have Primaris instead. Just not a fan of sitting on one spot all game.

Primaris stuff isn't all that static. Only the heavy intercessors and hellblasters have any reason to stand still, and they are both terrible. Inceptors are outright fast.

But it's true that the older fast attack choices have suffered in this edition. I wouldn't field something like an assault squad now, and vehicles like land speeders seem seriously overpriced. Bike squads and attack bikes seem ok though - with the latter making a good way to fill out a brigade and do maelstrom missions.

I don't think the Heavy Intercessors are terrible but they're definitely not great. The exchange is free at least...

I'm not sure what you mean here because Stalker bolters cost 2 points each instead of being a free exchange.

How do you handle infantry (like boyz or gaunts) ?
Now our bolter and thunderfire have been nerfed, what do you use ?
WW ? Frag ML ?

I thought about a twin-linked heavy flamer / heavy flamer dread (being Ultra is very useful there).

 godardc wrote:
How do you handle infantry (like boyz or gaunts) ?
Now our bolter and thunderfire have been nerfed, what do you use ?
WW ? Frag ML ?

I thought about a twin-linked heavy flamer / heavy flamer dread (being Ultra is very useful there).

Aggressors are very good at anti-horde. Other than that frags, and bolter weaponry from various sources.

 godardc wrote:
How do you handle infantry (like boyz or gaunts) ?
Now our bolter and thunderfire have been nerfed, what do you use ?

Twin-Assault Cannons on Razorbacks/Stormtalons.
Or Whirlwinds, Speeders with Assault Cannon/HB, Aggressors, mass bolters (Intercessors for that -1AP).
Grav-cannon devs can double up as anti-infantry pretty nicely, if you can get them in range for 16 shots (or 12 with heavy bolters if you run them cheap).
Scout bikes can also bring up to 22 s4 shots with 3 bikers at short range (12", 3*TL-Boltgun, 3*Shotgun, Stormbolter).

Horde's really not been something I've had trouble with compared to more elite armies.

Lemondish wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

 Flood wrote:
I suppose we have Primaris instead. Just not a fan of sitting on one spot all game.

Primaris stuff isn't all that static. Only the heavy intercessors and hellblasters have any reason to stand still, and they are both terrible. Inceptors are outright fast.

But it's true that the older fast attack choices have suffered in this edition. I wouldn't field something like an assault squad now, and vehicles like land speeders seem seriously overpriced. Bike squads and attack bikes seem ok though - with the latter making a good way to fill out a brigade and do maelstrom missions.

I don't think the Heavy Intercessors are terrible but they're definitely not great. The exchange is free at least...

I'm not sure what you mean here because Stalker bolters cost 2 points each instead of being a free exchange.

Thought they were free. Never mind then. They're not great haha


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godardc wrote:
How do you handle infantry (like boyz or gaunts) ?
Now our bolter and thunderfire have been nerfed, what do you use ?
WW ? Frag ML ?

I thought about a twin-linked heavy flamer / heavy flamer dread (being Ultra is very useful there).

Tarantula Turrets. 27 points gives you a 6 shot BS4+ Heavy Bolter. It doesn't interfere with being pure marines, and best of all it is in the Fast Attack slot, which isn't heavily contested what with Fliers getting their own category (I used to usually throw my stormtalons in every game).

I like the Codex Thunderfire Cannon quite a bit more than how it looked in the Index. The AP-1 has made it a lot more effective at wounding stuff, and its stratagem has been quite useful. Cutting the movement/advance/charge distances in half has been pretty good at keeping a large footslogging mob at bay for an extra turn or two, allowing you to focus the rest of your gunfire on a different single target. They're not as good as they were pre-8th edition, but they're infinitely better than they were in their Index entry.

 Flood wrote:

 godardc wrote:
How do you handle infantry (like boyz or gaunts) ?
Now our bolter and thunderfire have been nerfed, what do you use ?

Twin-Assault Cannons on Razorbacks/Stormtalons.
Or Whirlwinds, Speeders with Assault Cannon/HB, Aggressors, mass bolters (Intercessors for that -1AP).
Grav-cannon devs can double up as anti-infantry pretty nicely, if you can get them in range for 16 shots (or 12 with heavy bolters if you run them cheap).
Scout bikes can also bring up to 22 s4 shots with 3 bikers at short range (12", 3*TL-Boltgun, 3*Shotgun, Stormbolter).

Horde's really not been something I've had trouble with compared to more elite armies.

Agreed. Between the hurricane bolters and assault cannons on my storm raven, my Aggressors and bike's twin-bolters I can bury several dozen infantry a turn.

Ass cannon Razors are really solid as well, and always spend the 2 points on every vehicle possible for that extra storm bolter.

Not super impressed with Whirlwinds personally.

 Flood wrote:

 godardc wrote:
How do you handle infantry (like boyz or gaunts) ?
Now our bolter and thunderfire have been nerfed, what do you use ?

Twin-Assault Cannons on Razorbacks/Stormtalons.
Or Whirlwinds, Speeders with Assault Cannon/HB, Aggressors, mass bolters (Intercessors for that -1AP).
Grav-cannon devs can double up as anti-infantry pretty nicely, if you can get them in range for 16 shots (or 12 with heavy bolters if you run them cheap).
Scout bikes can also bring up to 22 s4 shots with 3 bikers at short range (12", 3*TL-Boltgun, 3*Shotgun, Stormbolter).

Horde's really not been something I've had trouble with compared to more elite armies.

I used to play speeder with HB/ML, but nowadays they are so expensive. Do you think they are worth it against infantry ?

 wtwlf123 wrote:
I like the Codex Thunderfire Cannon quite a bit more than how it looked in the Index. The AP-1 has made it a lot more effective at wounding stuff, and its stratagem has been quite useful. Cutting the movement/advance/charge distances in half has been pretty good at keeping a large footslogging mob at bay for an extra turn or two, allowing you to focus the rest of your gunfire on a different single target. They're not as good as they were pre-8th edition, but they're infinitely better than they were in their Index entry.

I haven't tried it yet, but I wish I had, it seems better in deed. I have been very disappointed by the index Thunderfire.


What weaponry do you put on your stormraven with the hurricane bolters and the asscannons ? Multi melta, heavy bolter, ML ?


Have you used drop pods succesfully since 8th Ed ?

Outside of a quad Grav Cannon or quad Multi-Melta Devastator Squad, I haven't had much success with Drop Pods in 8th so far. And even those roles are super niche.

Ok I see.
I have only used one since 8th dropped, and it didn't end well.

I'm going to play a dread with twin lined heavy flamer and a heavy flamer next week. I think it will be good with the Ultramarine CT.
Any experience with such a dread ?

 godardc wrote:
Ok I see.
I have only used one since 8th dropped, and it didn't end well.

I'm going to play a dread with twin lined heavy flamer and a heavy flamer next week. I think it will be good with the Ultramarine CT.
Any experience with such a dread ?

It's a decent blender but do you have a good plan to get it out there to make its points?

I want to expand my army to include some sort of Fast Attack option that isn't Assault Marines (since I have 5 of those at the moment.) What are you guys finding useful and having fun with? I've been eyeing a Land Speeder or Scout Bike squad. I'd like to pick up something with the intent of using it as a quick objective grabber. I know transports and deep striking are another option as well, but if it had to be something from the Fast Attack category, what would you go with and why?

 Bubbles wrote:
I want to expand my army to include some sort of Fast Attack option that isn't Assault Marines (since I have 5 of those at the moment.) What are you guys finding useful and having fun with? I've been eyeing a Land Speeder or Scout Bike squad. I'd like to pick up something with the intent of using it as a quick objective grabber. I know transports and deep striking are another option as well, but if it had to be something from the Fast Attack category, what would you go with and why?

While I’ve only used them in one list, Scout bikers seem to be pretty decent and fun.

They are fast.
They have a ton of guns, most of which can be assault. So they can move, assault move (always 6” turbo boost), then shoot with the AGL and their shotguns.

CC? They have pistols and combat knives for extra stabbing. Don’t want to be in CC? Cluster mines for 1CP, d3 MWs on a 2+.

They interact nicely with some other stratagems and CTs. UM can fall back, cluster mine, and still shoot. WS have a lot of perks.

And they don’t cost that much.

I’ve not been as impressed with my land speeders. The TLM/HB that has been my go-to for a while now seems very overpriced for what it does. And with the -1 to hit for shooting heavy weapons on the move, it no longer fills the niche of mobile firepower it used to. I’ve had a little more success with my old lead MM/HF, but am still not sure it’s worth it.

Bikes and AMs seem OK.

Interesting, I have always wanted to put scouts bikers in my army, but never done it. Maybe now is the time ?



I thought of a stormraven for transportation, I guess it is its the only way, now.

If you were already using the Stormraven, go for it.

 Nevelon wrote:

While I’ve only used them in one list, Scout bikers seem to be pretty decent and fun.

They are fast.
They have a ton of guns, most of which can be assault. So they can move, assault move (always 6” turbo boost), then shoot with the AGL and their shotguns.

CC? They have pistols and combat knives for extra stabbing. Don’t want to be in CC? Cluster mines for 1CP, d3 MWs on a 2+.

They interact nicely with some other stratagems and CTs. UM can fall back, cluster mine, and still shoot. WS have a lot of perks.

And they don’t cost that much.

I’ve not been as impressed with my land speeders. The TLM/HB that has been my go-to for a while now seems very overpriced for what it does. And with the -1 to hit for shooting heavy weapons on the move, it no longer fills the niche of mobile firepower it used to. I’ve had a little more success with my old lead MM/HF, but am still not sure it’s worth it.

Bikes and AMs seem OK.

I can't help but feel like I'm leaning towards Scout Bikers over the Land Speeder. The Land Speeder sounds fun to use but I feel like the Scout Bikers might actually accomplish something. For nearly the same points cost I can either get 1 model with merely a single Heavy Bolter, or three bikes that, when in Rapid Fire range, are shooting 4 Bolter Shots and (correct me if I'm wrong) 2 shots from a Shotgun as well, for a total of 18 shots going out. Of course the advantage of a Land Speeder is that if I want to I can slap a Multi-Melta on it and have it try and go pop something deadly at the start of the game, or redeploy to wherever it may be needed by flying over terrain and enemies. But even still, the Bikes are pretty fast and if positioned correctly should be able to get where I need them in just a turn or two, provided they don't die, but that brings me to my next point. These two units almost share the same stat line in terms of their survivability, the only difference being that the Land Speeder has a higher save at 3+, where as the Bikers get 4+. In addition to this, each time a Biker dies I'll be losing some of my firepower.

I really like both the models though, I'm just worried that the Land Speeder may leave a bit to be desired on the tabletop.

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud!

So, I am conflicted. Are Sternguard worth it over Intercessors? Besides the extra AP and the ability to ride in cheap transports, I am having trouble thinking of what Sternguard have to offer anymore. Intercessors have an extra wound, and are only 20 pts more for a squad of 10. Honestly, there a fluffy reasons to take either one in my army (Crimson Fists have a large amount of Sternguard, but they also received a huge refit with Primaris Marines). What do I do?