Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 l0k1 wrote:
What are you guys using on you berzerker champions? Chainsword/Chain Axes like the rest of the squad or maybe a Power Axe?

Having a Fist might be useful to get in a S10 set of attacks. And looking at it, you could also run your 'zerker champ with a pair of lightning claws for a bonus attack +rerolls.

 Latro_ wrote:

7. Spawn! was turned off by their slower movement but boy they are pretty sweet now:
- d6 attacks 'each' not per model

What's the difference?

 Nurgle23 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

7. Spawn! was turned off by their slower movement but boy they are pretty sweet now:
- d6 attacks 'each' not per model

What's the difference?

You roll the number of attacks per model, not per unit.
So the average number is still the same, but the new way swings less. So less situations where every Spawn has 1 or 6 attacks.

So charge with the spawn resolve overwatch roll to charge then roll for attacks to ensure minimum shenanigans?

The rules say you roll for the number of attacks right before you go to make use of the stat.

So you'd roll for the number of Attacks in the Fight Phase just after you've activated the unit and either before or after you've made their Mutation Table roll (since both would occur at the same time given when Mutated Beyond Reason says it occurs).

Has anyone tried Fabius Bile he looks interesting now i'm thinking of running him with some terminators in a spartan or a lesser transport depending on if I plan to have them ride with him or deep strike once he arrives at the front.

I mean all his results he offers are good now +1str, and +1 attack help chop things up while +1 toughness is a modest increase in durability against small arms.

Played a game vs Sister today. Got tabled(pretty much. Had Kharn and 2 rhinos left)

I ran
Kharn

Prince
Wings
Dual talon

9 Berzerkers
1 Power Sword
Icon
Rhino

9 Berserkers
2 Plasma Pistols
Champ Plasma Pistol/PowerFist
Icon
Rhino

9 Berzerkers
Rhino

He ran 3 squads of 15 sisters, Celestine, Jacobs, a squad of Seraphim, and penitent engine. I drastically underestimated the combat abilities of Celestine. A squad of berzerkers charged her and took her to down to 1 wound then she wasted the unit. Which opened the prince up to being hosed down by a bunch of bolters. I murdered his penitent engine and a squad of sisters. Granted, I expected him to bring guard(why I brought power fist and Plasma pistols). I also kind rolled crap. I would definitely replace kharn with a dark apostle next game.

 Rydria wrote:
Has anyone tried Fabius Bile he looks interesting now i'm thinking of running him with some terminators in a spartan or a lesser transport depending on if I plan to have them ride with him or deep strike once he arrives at the front.

I mean all his results he offers are good now +1str, and +1 attack help chop things up while +1 toughness is a modest increase in durability against small arms.

He seems similar to Illuminor Szeras over in the Necron Index, and apparently people have been having some success with him. Bile is probably worth checking out.

 l0k1 wrote:
Played a game vs Sister today. Got tabled(pretty much. Had Kharn and 2 rhinos left)

I ran
Kharn

Prince
Wings
Dual talon

9 Berzerkers
1 Power Sword
Icon
Rhino

9 Berserkers
2 Plasma Pistols
Champ Plasma Pistol/PowerFist
Icon
Rhino

9 Berzerkers
Rhino

He ran 3 squads of 15 sisters, Celestine, Jacobs, a squad of Seraphim, and penitent engine. I drastically underestimated the combat abilities of Celestine. A squad of berzerkers charged her and took her to down to 1 wound then she wasted the unit. Which opened the prince up to being hosed down by a bunch of bolters. I murdered his penitent engine and a squad of sisters. Granted, I expected him to bring guard(why I brought power fist and Plasma pistols). I also kind rolled crap. I would definitely replace kharn with a dark apostle next game.

I actually like Kharn a lot. With a big squad nearby to buff, he's an absolute monster. Re-rolling all your misses and hitting on 3+ means that you're basically going to hit 90% of the time. I'm thinking I need a Kharybdis to drop him and his 19 (or so) closest buds down range. Maybe toss abaddon into the mix

I'm also liking bloodthirsters a lot as a decently durable fast threat. But I think you need to run them in pairs. One can get downed, but most armies aren't going to kill two before they hit the lines.

Speaking of the Kharybdis, I have a game on pause where I used it. One squad of 10 Rubrics, one squad of 5, Ahriman and an Exalted Sorcerer were placed inside of it. It made for a pretty lethal alpha strike, especially with the kharybdis itself charging into the Eldar tanks with the help of Warptime.

The obvious problem with it is durability; for 300 points, you're getting a model that will do an amazing job on turn one and then just die in the return fire. 3+ and no invulnerable save means it's far squishier vs. anti-tank than what I'm used to as a Thousand Sons player.

Of course the Kharybids being such a spooky and juicy target may actually be a boon; all of my Eldar opponents heavy weapons got shot at the drop pod rather than my backline shooting leviathan and contemptor dreadnought.

 luke1705 wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Played a game vs Sister today. Got tabled(pretty much. Had Kharn and 2 rhinos left)

I ran
Kharn

Prince
Wings
Dual talon

9 Berzerkers
1 Power Sword
Icon
Rhino

9 Berserkers
2 Plasma Pistols
Champ Plasma Pistol/PowerFist
Icon
Rhino

9 Berzerkers
Rhino

He ran 3 squads of 15 sisters, Celestine, Jacobs, a squad of Seraphim, and penitent engine. I drastically underestimated the combat abilities of Celestine. A squad of berzerkers charged her and took her to down to 1 wound then she wasted the unit. Which opened the prince up to being hosed down by a bunch of bolters. I murdered his penitent engine and a squad of sisters. Granted, I expected him to bring guard(why I brought power fist and Plasma pistols). I also kind rolled crap. I would definitely replace kharn with a dark apostle next game.

I actually like Kharn a lot. With a big squad nearby to buff, he's an absolute monster. Re-rolling all your misses and hitting on 3+ means that you're basically going to hit 90% of the time. I'm thinking I need a Kharybdis to drop him and his 19 (or so) closest buds down range. Maybe toss abaddon into the mix

I'm also liking bloodthirsters a lot as a decently durable fast threat. But I think you need to run them in pairs. One can get downed, but most armies aren't going to kill two before they hit the lines.

Kharn wasn't bad but I think the buffs and the cost of a dark apostle make it a little more appealing. I'd love a Kharybdis, but our shop doesn't allow FW except in pick up games(thanks to one super douche)

Do the Forge World Transports require <Legion> for the occupants? Fallen and Fabius could use a ride.

 Eldarain wrote:
Do the Forge World Transports require <Legion> for the occupants? Fallen and Fabius could use a ride.

They are weirdly worded.

They can transport legion Or mark of chaos infantry.

Of course this doesn't help fallen or fabius who have neither.

I can't think of an example of an infantry unit without the legion rule, which has a mark of chaos for this change to even matter.

Dreadclaw can transport 10 <LEGION> or <MARK OF CHAOS> INFANTRY (or 1 Contemptor/Hellbrute)

Kharybdis can transport 20 <LEGION> or <MARK OF CHAOS> INFANTRY (or 1 Contemptor/Hellbrute/Rapier)

The <Mark of Chaos> rule is so that it can transport daemons. So now you have a transport option for your daemonettes, which may be good?

Daemons don't have the mark of chaos rule.

Huh, so they don't. I thought the Daemonic Allegiance rule was essentially the same thing but a closer reading shows its clearly otherwise.

Anyone some ideas for a 1000 point tournament list?

My actual list looks like that: 2x DP with Wings, Sword
4x3 Spawn
1x4 Bikes with 2x Plasma

Thats near 1000 points, but someone in the armylist thread meant i should rework it.

So i am asking here. Hope some of you can help me further

Anyone fought Sisters of battle in 8th ed using CSM? Specifically Celestine. I fought her along with 3 squads of seraphim and got beat pretty bad. And I was using 3 squads of cultists, 3 sqads of Khorne Berserkers and even two hellbrutes. Still got beat bad.

How to handle her and her seraphim squads? (They can all deep strike in btw).

Hey guys,

I'm looking for a little input for my Chaos list.

Here : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/731254.page#9467216

I'm also building a Mathhammer spreadsheet.

I've linked it below.
So far I've only done the Renegade Knight.
Any suggestions/comments. Feel free. The earlier I know about them the better.

Here's a link.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fIYAu1UgDyxMCrnHYUoIdviPottSyRSQGTSgmsNxHfs/edit?usp=sharing

The existing sheet lets you change, Wounds, Models, Saves etc to see what is effective/innefective against certain model types.

I will make a quick reference for all the models too. Thats a WIP.

Chris

Love mathhammer. Might need some commentary to understand what's going on

Particularly interested in how the various gunline units fair point to point

I will include a brief explaination.

The formulas don't need to be 'Understood' just what they are calculating.

I will try and create a separate page for each of the units.
Grouping, HQ, Troops,Elites etc. For ease of use.

I will also have a "Contents page" with links to each unit.

I will do a few side by side comparisons for Troops, Elites grouped. Against T4, T5, T6 etc.


While I'm working on it, feel free to make a copy.


Wow Chaos Lords are tough...

So... Many... Options...

This thread seems to have flown right under my raider, huh.

Well I'll add my 2c to World Eaters tactica:
- Khorne Terminators are great! Take a unit, drop in and hold up a problem unit for several turns (Icon of Wrath makes them better than most termies). I'm running mine with combi-plasmas and power fists, which are quite a point sink but they hit like a damned truck.
- Berzerkers (I don't have to tell you this) are THE best combat unit in the game (besides characters). Kit them out with Chainaxes, Chainswords and a Power fist on the Champion then stick them in a rhino.
- Lords, damn these guys are tough; especially Jugger and termie lords. But like someone said above: you might want to take an apostle instead.
- Khan, for his points? Eh, his strength is a bit dissapointing for his points, take an apostle instead.
- Bloodthirsters: Oh my. Oh me oh my. D6 damage per wound? Yes please! They're very tough for their points and will take a sizable amount of fire to drop (played a game today where a Bloodthirster on 1 wound made 6 daemon saves, rolling only 6s!).
- Daemon prince of Khorne: to CSM or to Daemon? I've been running the Daemon version. Why you may ask? +1S and +1A. Why is that good? Wounding T8 vehicles on a 3+ that's why! (In the same game mentioned above, my Bloodthirster and DP were tag teaming all of my opponants high toughness vehicles: they were dropping like flies!)

From what I've experienced so far, World Eaters are looking like one of the stronger CSM armies.

Ok, so a few more stat lines added to the Spreadsheet.

Struggling to think how I will represent the re-rolling 1's for the lord and DP though.


Edit :

All HQ's added. (Excluding Daemons - for now)

Next LOW's - Will do this tomorrow.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fIYAu1UgDyxMCrnHYUoIdviPottSyRSQGTSgmsNxHfs/edit#gid=2084351568

mcsheehy wrote:
Struggling to think how I will represent the re-rolling 1's for the lord and DP though.

Do you mean you don't know the mathhammer for it or you don't know how to add it to other units datasheets??

I would also like to add a tactic from yesterday. Disembarking a squad of zerkers from a rhino, then moving the rhino behind the unit you are about to charge with the zerkers is fantastic. The rhinos are extremely survivable now so they create a better mobile shield than the were in the past. They can also help cut units off from falling back.

 l0k1 wrote:
I would also like to add a tactic from yesterday. Disembarking a squad of zerkers from a rhino, then moving the rhino behind the unit you are about to charge with the zerkers is fantastic. The rhinos are extremely survivable now so they create a better mobile shield than the were in the past. They can also help cut units off from falling back.

They're also good for absorbing overwatch.

Ok, I think I got it worked out.

The formula :

="Attacks"*(((7-"Hit roll")/6)+((1/6)*((7-"Hit roll")/6)))*((7-"To wound")/6) * "Max Damage" * "Number of models"

Theory for the hits.

3's to hit with reroll 1's

4/6 + (1/6 * 4/6) = 24/36 + 4/36 = 28/26 = 7/9

Anyone want to check this?

mcsheehy wrote:
@Mrhappyface - Im struggling to create a formula to represent it.

One that can be used and taken into consideration for all models.

The formula for the chance to hit when re-rolling 1s is 7x/36 where the units original to hit chance was x/6, i.e. a BS of 4+ with re-rolls of a 1 would go from a 2/6 chance to hit to a 14/36 chance to hit.

FAQ out

big one is chaos daemons daemon prices are 8 wounds!