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 Strat_N8 wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
So… you can only play Tide of Traitors if you have a Chaos Space Marines detachment, for instance Khârn leading three squads of Emperor's Children. If you do play it, then you can play it on Cultists belonging to the Death Guard, who apparently are not Chaos Slace Marines.

This is the very first subfaction Codex, and confidence in 'simpler & more intuitive' feels like it's giving way to suspension of common sense

It does say in the preface section for all the stratagems in the CSM codex that the Death Guard and Thousand Suns don't get them due to having their own books. The FAQ just clarified that stratagems are unlocked based on having a detachment of the corresponding faction in the army and that cross-faction stratagems will work as long as the target shares the correct targeting keyword.

Additionally, common sense is retained if you view them as orders. Stratagems from one detachment can be applied to a different subfaction because you as the army commander can order your troops however you'd like and the detachments you take represent your experience in doing so. Some stratagems like the Alpha Legion Forward Operatives one requires that the units themselves are specially trained for the task while others like Chaos Familiar are just a perk addition to the army that consumes no list points.

If they didn't intend for this, they could easily have made <Legion> the stratagem requirement instead of Heretic Astartes, since Death Guard can't be <Legion>. This was planned from the start probably as a means of unifying Chaos as a faction.

I found out today that there's a Slaanesh stratagem to fire twice for 2 cp. What are some optimal units for this stratagem?

Oblits are nice. Noise Marines. Havocs.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oblits are nice. Noise Marines. Havocs.

Terminators and Chosen work as well. Chosen are probably the least appealing choice for this though.

So over the weekend did my first GT with Black legion, Learned a lot, and kind of wish I'd spent more time practicing instead of speed painting to get them ready. A few thoughts in no particular order:

Abaddon never got a second round of combat, two phases was the most any of his opponents lasted. Best moment was wiping out a group of zerkers who got the charge off on him, it was a great "You think I'm trapped in CC with you, wrong, you're trapped in CC with me" moment. I would have liked to get into a fight with Girlyman, but bad luck Abaddon only fought other chaos players. Even with a bum warlord trait, he was an absolute lynchpin, being both an amazing force multiplier and an unmatched beat stick.

Obliterators were jaw dropping good, They deep struck in with Abaddon, dropped skarbrand in a single volley, wiped out a 20 man unit of zerkers in a single phase with Endless cacophony, and even saved abaddon from getting zerker swarmed (and were surprisingly effective in CC). Since you can only use EC once per turn, taking a second unit of them is subject to diminishing returns, but at least one unit of them should be an auto include in any chaos list.

Land raider was so-so, impressive firepower, but huge and thus easy to lock up in CC, so it never really served its role as a zerker delivery machine. Probably going to get cut from my list because everyone knew how to deal with it. For the cost I could have doubled my number of zerkers and still had enough points left over to put them in rhinos.

Twin las totting hellbrute, Worked well, not very efficient but that might be why it worked. There were always bigger threats, so killing it was never a priority for my opponents. It put out 4 lascannon shots in rounds it mattered, and worked as a good line backer discouraging deep strikes at my havoks.

Havoks, Performed adequately, I actually ended up liking the auto cannon a bit more than the las cannons, as outside of a knight that was crisped in a volley, I never ran into many heavy vehicles, if the tournament had been next weekend I'm sure I would have had a chance to use the las cannons more efficiently against AM tanks.

Terminators, really kind of disappointing. Combi plasma is super expensive, and making a 9" charge is a daunting possibility. No matter what you are doing you are paying for wargear you are not using. Also we are past the point where no scatter deep strike is a novel strategy, it doesn't take many units to make half the board off limits to deep strikers, and with cheap units like cultist and conscripts it won't end up costing many points. Given their options are deep strike or waddle, I think they are going to get trimmed from any future competitive lists.

Cultist, they have one job, to bubble wrap, and they are nearly unequaled in it. They single handedly stopped 2 20 man alpha legion zerker squads from getting first turn charges. I used the old Bubble wrap with spokes, I got first turn so the spokes just advanced back towards the main line leaving the zerkers 17" away from the nearest of my units. It did not turn out well for the zerkers, and that is why I think the alpha legion trait is way overhyped. Smart opponents will just deny you a chance to get your first turn charge (or make it laughably ineffective), then you have 600pts of zerkers with their butts hanging out in the breeze.

Khorne berzerkers, I had high hopes for them, and while they are wonderfully efficient when they get in combat, you need a reliable method of delivery, which I was lacking. The anvillus pattern dreadclaw is probably that delivery mechanism.

CSM squads, cheap, but unimpressive for even their relative cheapness. Honestly I think I'll replace them with horrors to meet my troop requirements, because the loss of the black legion trait and let the galaxy burn stratagem isn't even worth a second thought.

Other thoughts, the relic isn't really balanced for perfect deep strike, or alpha legion infiltrators, so it continues to be my least favorite mission by far and away for it's ease of abuse.

I really underestimated the Iron warriors legion trait, I spent a match running across the board with no armor bonus from cover getting thumped by things like heavy bolters and auto cannons.

I never really thought of havok's other than as cheap turrets, but after seeing two squads of them with plasma guns in a rhino, I realize there isn't a reason to take choosen or even CSM. Havok's combine the best parts of both, cheap bodies with access to hard hitting special weapons.

I need to pick up some noise marines, and I'm thinking about picking up some warp talons. noise marines are just plain good units, nothing over the top, but solid fire power. Warp talons are on par with Khorne berserkers (well kinnda berserkers can swing twice but warp talons reroll wounds) but can deep strike and move like they have some place to be.

Any recommendations on what loadout to put on Decimators? I've heard dual Soulburners are good now.

OutOfManaException wrote:
Any recommendations on what loadout to put on Decimators? I've heard dual Soulburners are good now.

Soulburners basically cause mortal wounds on every hit. That's huge. They also cause mortal wounds to your Decimator, but only one per turn. It's a really solid choice, but keep in mind, that they only have a range of 24". Given that the Decimator can no longer DS, you might find yourself hard pressed to get into range, if your opponent is smart. If your army is lacking fire support, you should also think about adding a Conversion Beamer or two to your loadout, as they are a really solid choice now.

Just got back from my first GT also. Congrats on yours Grimgold!

Definitely echoing the need to get practice in against tournament caliber opposition. 10/10 would have gotten me an additional win, and prevented me from making silly mistakes in the wins I did have. It’s just good overall.

As for chaos thoughts, I too had a rhino filled with berserkers (which is perfectly fine by the way. No need for exotic delivery methods. Just toss them in and you’re good to go). I was, however, underwhelmed by the zerkers themselves. To be fair, I ran both Magnus and Mortarion. So the zerkers didn’t really have any targets that one of those two hadn’t already dealt with. In a list with just one of the big guys, I think there’s some good value.

The obliterators were very good. A little too inconsistent for my liking and they eat CP like there’s no tomorrow, but they can pop two rhinos the turn they double fire if you have some decent dice.

Noise marines I can’t ever see myself not taking. Far too important in the current meta.

Magnus, for better or for worse, is an auto include. The psychic force multiplication is more valuable than what any other unit can bring.

I like Mortarion a lot. In the current meta, he does a lot of things that are really important. I do, however, have to think about whether I can still fit him in my list because.....

I need a fire raptor. Like desperate need. I’m probably dropping the zerkers and the oblits to fit it in my list. It’s kind of silly. And if I don’t take Mortarion (or want to sacrifice his durability) I can make the fire raptor -2 to hit, which is actually savage. It just puts out a ridiculous amount of shooting and if they decide to kill it, then Magnus is probably pretty happy.

Impulsively bought another Daemon Prince model... How is the Flying Circus been for 8th?

 Grimgold wrote:
So over the weekend did my first GT with Black legion, Learned a lot, and kind of wish I'd spent more time practicing instead of speed painting to get them ready. A few thoughts in no particular order:

Abaddon never got a second round of combat, two phases was the most any of his opponents lasted. Best moment was wiping out a group of zerkers who got the charge off on him, it was a great "You think I'm trapped in CC with you, wrong, you're trapped in CC with me" moment. I would have liked to get into a fight with Girlyman, but bad luck Abaddon only fought other chaos players. Even with a bum warlord trait, he was an absolute lynchpin, being both an amazing force multiplier and an unmatched beat stick.

Obliterators were jaw dropping good, They deep struck in with Abaddon, dropped skarbrand in a single volley, wiped out a 20 man unit of zerkers in a single phase with Endless cacophony, and even saved abaddon from getting zerker swarmed (and were surprisingly effective in CC). Since you can only use EC once per turn, taking a second unit of them is subject to diminishing returns, but at least one unit of them should be an auto include in any chaos list.

Land raider was so-so, impressive firepower, but huge and thus easy to lock up in CC, so it never really served its role as a zerker delivery machine. Probably going to get cut from my list because everyone knew how to deal with it. For the cost I could have doubled my number of zerkers and still had enough points left over to put them in rhinos.

Twin las totting hellbrute, Worked well, not very efficient but that might be why it worked. There were always bigger threats, so killing it was never a priority for my opponents. It put out 4 lascannon shots in rounds it mattered, and worked as a good line backer discouraging deep strikes at my havoks.

Havoks, Performed adequately, I actually ended up liking the auto cannon a bit more than the las cannons, as outside of a knight that was crisped in a volley, I never ran into many heavy vehicles, if the tournament had been next weekend I'm sure I would have had a chance to use the las cannons more efficiently against AM tanks.

Terminators, really kind of disappointing. Combi plasma is super expensive, and making a 9" charge is a daunting possibility. No matter what you are doing you are paying for wargear you are not using. Also we are past the point where no scatter deep strike is a novel strategy, it doesn't take many units to make half the board off limits to deep strikers, and with cheap units like cultist and conscripts it won't end up costing many points. Given their options are deep strike or waddle, I think they are going to get trimmed from any future competitive lists.

Cultist, they have one job, to bubble wrap, and they are nearly unequaled in it. They single handedly stopped 2 20 man alpha legion zerker squads from getting first turn charges. I used the old Bubble wrap with spokes, I got first turn so the spokes just advanced back towards the main line leaving the zerkers 17" away from the nearest of my units. It did not turn out well for the zerkers, and that is why I think the alpha legion trait is way overhyped. Smart opponents will just deny you a chance to get your first turn charge (or make it laughably ineffective), then you have 600pts of zerkers with their butts hanging out in the breeze.

Khorne berzerkers, I had high hopes for them, and while they are wonderfully efficient when they get in combat, you need a reliable method of delivery, which I was lacking. The anvillus pattern dreadclaw is probably that delivery mechanism.

CSM squads, cheap, but unimpressive for even their relative cheapness. Honestly I think I'll replace them with horrors to meet my troop requirements, because the loss of the black legion trait and let the galaxy burn stratagem isn't even worth a second thought.

Other thoughts, the relic isn't really balanced for perfect deep strike, or alpha legion infiltrators, so it continues to be my least favorite mission by far and away for it's ease of abuse.

I really underestimated the Iron warriors legion trait, I spent a match running across the board with no armor bonus from cover getting thumped by things like heavy bolters and auto cannons.

I never really thought of havok's other than as cheap turrets, but after seeing two squads of them with plasma guns in a rhino, I realize there isn't a reason to take choosen or even CSM. Havok's combine the best parts of both, cheap bodies with access to hard hitting special weapons.

I need to pick up some noise marines, and I'm thinking about picking up some warp talons. noise marines are just plain good units, nothing over the top, but solid fire power. Warp talons are on par with Khorne berserkers (well kinnda berserkers can swing twice but warp talons reroll wounds) but can deep strike and move like they have some place to be.

Sounds like one of the lists I saw at the Utah SCGG - is that where you played, or another GT? Kind of funny facing just other Chaos armies.

 luke1705 wrote:
Just got back from my first GT also. Congrats on yours Grimgold!

Definitely echoing the need to get practice in against tournament caliber opposition. 10/10 would have gotten me an additional win, and prevented me from making silly mistakes in the wins I did have. It’s just good overall.

As for chaos thoughts, I too had a rhino filled with berserkers (which is perfectly fine by the way. No need for exotic delivery methods. Just toss them in and you’re good to go). I was, however, underwhelmed by the zerkers themselves. To be fair, I ran both Magnus and Mortarion. So the zerkers didn’t really have any targets that one of those two hadn’t already dealt with. In a list with just one of the big guys, I think there’s some good value.

The obliterators were very good. A little too inconsistent for my liking and they eat CP like there’s no tomorrow, but they can pop two rhinos the turn they double fire if you have some decent dice.

Noise marines I can’t ever see myself not taking. Far too important in the current meta.

Magnus, for better or for worse, is an auto include. The psychic force multiplication is more valuable than what any other unit can bring.

I like Mortarion a lot. In the current meta, he does a lot of things that are really important. I do, however, have to think about whether I can still fit him in my list because.....

I need a fire raptor. Like desperate need. I’m probably dropping the zerkers and the oblits to fit it in my list. It’s kind of silly. And if I don’t take Mortarion (or want to sacrifice his durability) I can make the fire raptor -2 to hit, which is actually savage. It just puts out a ridiculous amount of shooting and if they decide to kill it, then Magnus is probably pretty happy.

My wife played against one of the Fire Raptor guys at the GT (maybe not the one you're referring to), and took great delight in popping it turn 1. Don't get me wrong... they're unbelievable, but the Oblits seem so much more (ironically) predictable in that they're not targets until they get to do a potentially withering amount of work. I think i'd trade other things to get the Raptor before I got rid of Oblits who are just stars right now (and who also didn't let me down even in my poorer performances at the tourney).

Would you recommend using Havocs or are they just a bit subpar?

Msolve wrote:
Would you recommend using Havocs or are they just a bit subpar?

If there’s going to be tall ruins for them to start in to buff their cover saves, they’re a perfectly fine unit. My strongest game right now is three squads of them in a 35PL list - so successful I’m wondering if I’m TFG’ing by using it. Last week a Black Templar army surrendered on turn one, and I outshot IG despite his LR Punisher taking a very lucky nine salvoes to fall. In bigger games they obviously want a cultist screen, but yeah, four LC or AC or HB or five PG with 2+ saves and five ablative wounds, gimme!

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


My wife played against one of the Fire Raptor guys at the GT (maybe not the one you're referring to), and took great delight in popping it turn 1. Don't get me wrong... they're unbelievable, but the Oblits seem so much more (ironically) predictable in that they're not targets until they get to do a potentially withering amount of work. I think i'd trade other things to get the Raptor before I got rid of Oblits who are just stars right now (and who also didn't let me down even in my poorer performances at the tourney).

I was at the BFS GT. There were a couple women there but no one said they were married to you. To be fair, I didn’t ask.

There are some things that can pop the fire raptor, but I’m trying to keep the big 3 as mainstays in my list:

1) Magnus
2) Mortarion
3) Fire raptor

I want to make the oblits work but I don’t think I have enough left after those 3, and I think the first two take a lot of shooting away from the fire raptor, so I’m not as concerned about it’s durability

So I am wondering how to paint my Khorne Berzerkers and Noise Marines in an Alpha Legion army. I kind of want them to match the rest of my army, but if fluff-wise if it makes more sense for them to be red/purple/pink then I will do that. Any one have advice on this? Edit: also should they have an alpha legion shoulder pad icon? Does that make sense?

Msolve wrote:
So I am wondering how to paint my Khorne Berzerkers and Noise Marines in an Alpha Legion army. I kind of want them to match the rest of my army, but if fluff-wise if it makes more sense for them to be red/purple/pink then I will do that. Any one have advice on this? Edit: also should they have an alpha legion shoulder pad icon? Does that make sense?

Just paint them to match the rest of your army. How they are armed is distinctive enough to tell what they are.

 luke1705 wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


My wife played against one of the Fire Raptor guys at the GT (maybe not the one you're referring to), and took great delight in popping it turn 1. Don't get me wrong... they're unbelievable, but the Oblits seem so much more (ironically) predictable in that they're not targets until they get to do a potentially withering amount of work. I think i'd trade other things to get the Raptor before I got rid of Oblits who are just stars right now (and who also didn't let me down even in my poorer performances at the tourney).

I was at the BFS GT. There were a couple women there but no one said they were married to you. To be fair, I didn’t ask.

There are some things that can pop the fire raptor, but I’m trying to keep the big 3 as mainstays in my list:

1) Magnus
2) Mortarion
3) Fire raptor

I want to make the oblits work but I don’t think I have enough left after those 3, and I think the first two take a lot of shooting away from the fire raptor, so I’m not as concerned about it’s durability

I'm trying to work a list like that too...

I'm thinking:
=Patrol=
-Be'lakor
-9x brimmies, 1 bluey
-9x brimmies, 1 bluey
-Fire Raptor <Death Guard>
-3x Oblits Slaanesh

=Supremes=
-Maelific Lord
-Maelific Lord
-Maelific Lord
-Magnus

=Supremes=
-Maelific Lord
-Maelific Lord
-The Changeling
-Mortarion

Enough firepower? Seems too "top heavy" to me tho.

Not enough CP. And you can’t use the double fire stratagem because you don’t have a pure CSM Detachment. And not enough screening models

 Virules wrote:


Sounds like one of the lists I saw at the Utah SCGG - is that where you played, or another GT? Kind of funny facing just other Chaos armies.

Yup, it was my first time playing black legion (or really chaos in a non-skirmish setting), so i had a lot to learn.

Thoughts on my 2000 Iron Warriors list?

Dunno what marks to use, Slaanesh on the Havocs for sure, perhaps on the prince also to swap out the Exoskeleton for the Elixir?

BATTALION:

HQ:

Daemon Prince: Wings, 2x Malefic Talons, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton
Sorcerer with Jump Pack: Force Sword, Combi-flamer

TROOPS:

Cultists x10: Autoguns
Cultists x10: Autoguns
Cultists x10: Autoguns
Cultists x10: Autoguns
Cultists x10: Autoguns
Cultists x10: Autoguns

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Havocs x5: 4x Lascannon
Hellforged Leviathan: 2x Grav-flux Bombard, 2x Hellflamer
Rapier Quad Heavy Bolters x2

LORD OF WAR AUXILIARY DETACHMENT:

Hellforged Falchion: Twin Heavy Bolter, 2x Quad Lascannon, Twin Volcano Cannon, Eternal Hunger


Thoughts:

Daemon Prince: Buff the shooty stuff with re-roll 1's, protect backfield against chargers?
Sorc: Prescience for buffing the Falchion/Rapiers and Warp Time for flinging Cultists/Prince/whatever forward

Cultists: Screen, meat shield, camp, DIE

Lascannon Havocs: Maintain long range anti big-stuff threat along with Falchion, shoot twice with stratagem, camp in ruins
Rapiers: More efficient use of points to shoot heavy bolter shots, but no ignores cover
Leviathan: Unsure if this is the best loadout, or if I should go with 1x Butcher and 1x Claw to protect the backfield and still take potshots at stuff from 36"?

Falchion: Kill big stuff, though slightly worse compared to the new buff to the IG Volcano Cannon on the Shadowsword

What are we thinking about TITANIC options? I’m really impressed by the Kytan - no degrading accuracy, auto heal and invulnerable works in melee, and 5A to start with. And it can benefit from Warptime, Prescience, Diabolic Strength, Warpsmith repairs, Herald buffs, HA aura buffs... and it’s cheaper than LoS

I’ve seen a Lancer conversion I’d like to do, but the rules... can’t help but feel a Kytan will do a better job, firing its gun on the way in and having more attacks with no degrading accuracy and massive HA synergy. Feels like that makes it a way, way better option for duelling with Knights.

Msolve wrote:
So I am wondering how to paint my Khorne Berzerkers and Noise Marines in an Alpha Legion army. I kind of want them to match the rest of my army, but if fluff-wise if it makes more sense for them to be red/purple/pink then I will do that. Any one have advice on this? Edit: also should they have an alpha legion shoulder pad icon? Does that make sense?

It's really up to you. I paint all my cult troops in their Legion colors, it makes them stand out amongst all the Black. I know other people who do the opposite and everything is themed to their own army.

Msolve wrote:
So I am wondering how to paint my Khorne Berzerkers and Noise Marines in an Alpha Legion army. I kind of want them to match the rest of my army, but if fluff-wise if it makes more sense for them to be red/purple/pink then I will do that. Any one have advice on this? Edit: also should they have an alpha legion shoulder pad icon? Does that make sense?

These are my Alpha Legion "Berzerkers". They're made from Primaris Reivers, and have no special markings.

However, their color scheme immediately identifies them as Alphas even without having their details painted.

I'm going to be doing the exact same for about 40 Noise Marines, using Primaris Hellblasters in the next few weeks.

Edit: Also added one of them with their Kharybdis.

I do like that colour scheme, have you got a blog on here so we can continue the hobbycraft conversation out of the tactica thread?

I'll make one in the WIP Area so I don't derail things; I think you're safe with doing conversions/painting Alpha as long as you make the effort to make them look appropriate.

 luke1705 wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:


My wife played against one of the Fire Raptor guys at the GT (maybe not the one you're referring to), and took great delight in popping it turn 1. Don't get me wrong... they're unbelievable, but the Oblits seem so much more (ironically) predictable in that they're not targets until they get to do a potentially withering amount of work. I think i'd trade other things to get the Raptor before I got rid of Oblits who are just stars right now (and who also didn't let me down even in my poorer performances at the tourney).

I was at the BFS GT. There were a couple women there but no one said they were married to you. To be fair, I didn’t ask.

There are some things that can pop the fire raptor, but I’m trying to keep the big 3 as mainstays in my list:

1) Magnus
2) Mortarion
3) Fire raptor

I want to make the oblits work but I don’t think I have enough left after those 3, and I think the first two take a lot of shooting away from the fire raptor, so I’m not as concerned about it’s durability

There's definitely a psychological value to having all three of those concurrently. I'm sure any opponent will feel a degree of demoralization knowing even if they put everything they've got into removing one super threat vector, that there are still two more.

Incidentally, my wife did lose that game where she offed the Fire Raptor... she was just really proud of having done so with how much I had been talking up the model in the weeks before BfS. :-p I'm pretty sure we didn't meet (you'd remember me... I was the one person in a wheelchair... I kind of stick out), but I did see your army at some point on a board, and it looked beautiful.

Those are some very effective AL berzerkers. Well done! Wish I'd thought of that, actually. Maybe some day I'll bite off your idea.

Hmm. Chaos Rhino costs 4PL, which includes a Havoc Launcher. T7, 11W.

Bunker costs 5PL, which includes a gun turret. T8, 12W. Havoc Squad’s important guns can all shoot out of it.

In my experience, a Chaos Lord’s re-rolls might well come at a cost of (1) placing the gunners on awkward rooftops where they might not all get LOS on a target, and (2) the Havocs themselves being shootable. Cover bonuses usually mitigate the latter, but sometimes you don’t even get that - my last big game was on a pretty open plain, and there’s a jungle in my future as well. Whereas if a part of a Bunker can see a target, then every lascannon can take a shot.

At the very least, this warrants investigation. As I understand it, Fortifications are just an immobile unit, placed with the rest of your army? Can they be plonked on top of an Objective?

 lindsay40k wrote:
What are we thinking about TITANIC options? I’m really impressed by the Kytan - no degrading accuracy, auto heal and invulnerable works in melee, and 5A to start with. And it can benefit from Warptime, Prescience, Diabolic Strength, Warpsmith repairs, Herald buffs, HA aura buffs... and it’s cheaper than LoS

I’ve seen a Lancer conversion I’d like to do, but the rules... can’t help but feel a Kytan will do a better job, firing its gun on the way in and having more attacks with no degrading accuracy and massive HA synergy. Feels like that makes it a way, way better option for duelling with Knights.

It sounds pretty good! I should take a look at it.

Lately, I've found Zarakynel to be quite good. Two weeks ago, I took Z and a Renegade Knight and was paired up with another Chaos player [CSM, with footsloggers and a Deredeo] vs a pretty good Astra Militarum player with 2k.
Zarakynel ran forward and luckily made the charge on the first turn. It then kept taking down squad after squad of Conscripts and Guardsmen, as the Mortal Wounds from the sword spilled over, and Z could retreat from an uncool combat and charge an easier target.

It helped that Z also got off the power that made a target unit get -1 to hit. It survived a lot of shots, including a full round of shooting from a Baneblade, only for it's last two wounds to be picked off on turn 4.

Meanwhile, my Renegade Knight was blasted off the table on Turn 1, after stubbing away a few stray guardsmen and not even killing off a full Lascannon team.

Knights seem really overcosted this edition. I saw some mathhammer on reddit a couple weeks ago and it said the Atrapos was the only one that was points efficient. The issue is that it is only good again high toughness multi wound models and other titanic units, so if you come up against a horde or infantry heavy list you are wasting 550 points. It does absolutely melt superheavies though. It can easily kill a baneblade variant in a single turn.