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So, how does Khorne armies fare ? Especially World Eaters armies ? I have always been interested in collecting a Khorne army.

Kzraahk wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. How does LoS compare to Kytan Ravager?

LoS is ~100 points more, has more wounds, more Dakka, and gains attacks as it loses wounds.

Kytan has 1 more attack (at full wounds, then it loses them progressively) 2” more movement, and can advance 2d6”...

I desperately want the Kytan to be the better choice because it looks so much cooler and it’s cheaper, but IMO those ~100 points on the LoS are worth it.

The Kytan should also gain attacks as it loses wounds. They’re thematically different tiers of the same unit. FW really lets me down sometimes.

Is a minimum cost LoS (521 points) still better than a Kytan? Both would go well with the Alpha Legion trait

Traits only apply to infantry, Bikes, and Helbrutes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godardc wrote:
So, how does Khorne armies fare ? Especially World Eaters armies ? I have always been interested in collecting a Khorne army.

Well, they get access to Obliterators, Plasma Chosen, Decimators, Contemptors, Spartans, Cultists, and Havocs. And of course the hot topics - LoS and Kytan. DPs are strong but +1A is not as good as psychic. Oh, and Dreadclaw and Kharybdis.

So, a fine roster to choose from, albeit one that massively benefits from a detachment bringing Warptime, Death Hex, and Prescience.

 lindsay40k wrote:

Kzraahk wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
Hmm. How does LoS compare to Kytan Ravager?

LoS is ~100 points more, has more wounds, more Dakka, and gains attacks as it loses wounds.

Kytan has 1 more attack (at full wounds, then it loses them progressively) 2” more movement, and can advance 2d6”...

I desperately want the Kytan to be the better choice because it looks so much cooler and it’s cheaper, but IMO those ~100 points on the LoS are worth it.

The Kytan should also gain attacks as it loses wounds. They’re thematically different tiers of the same unit. FW really lets me down sometimes.

Is a minimum cost LoS (521 points) still better than a Kytan? Both would go well with the Alpha Legion trait

Traits only apply to infantry, Bikes, and Helbrutes

And Daemon Princes. According to the FAQ

 lindsay40k wrote:
I think it is mostly useful in Maelstrom. Games where you’re generating VPs and hastening their turnover by tagging an objective, not holding it until the end. But hey, if it’s not a tournament and Smite spam time, you’re probably already segregating your HA and CDs for the Legion bonuses and anticipated perks for the warpkin.

Is anyone fielding the platoon of Malefic Lords in friendly/casual play? Seems like we’re strong enough, what with Noise Marines, Obliterators, and Kharybdis, without having to go full soup to stand a chance.

PS I am finding CSM characters on Steed of Slaanesh to be fantastic in Power Level games. Double movement, Advance and charge, bigger base for aura reach, +1W, +1A, all for +1PL, seriously get yourself a box of Hellstriders and kitbash these guys, we’ve probably got a good five years before the Indices are declared apocrypha. Got several ways to give a Murder Sword Lord six or seven attacks - with a reliable threat radius of 20”, that’s a hell of a scarecrow when there’s a scary character getting in the Teleportarium.

Interesting, I will have to look into that.

How does everyone find Forgefiends? they suck or worth trying out? I love the model

 Zid wrote:
How does everyone find Forgefiends? they suck or worth trying out? I love the model

I like the model too, however it seems that they suck, as they have a mediocre BS and no way to negate the heavy weapon penalty. If you can spam the daemonforge stratagem, they might be get thier points back in damage, but you'd be wasting a lot of CP for it.

I'd love to field a triple plasmafiend, but paying more for less reliable guns is just stupid. I think they forgot to give the forgefiend and defiler some form of mitageting the heavy weapon penalty.

 Zid wrote:
How does everyone find Forgefiends? they suck or worth trying out? I love the model

I am going to run a forgefiend in my next game with chaos. Doing a 50/50 half Chaos Renegade chapter Tsons and half Chaos Deamons. Personally I think Nurgle would help better but I am running it fluffy so Tsons and deamons it is. Will be going against new Tyranids so.... I will post up how it gos lol.

So I just watched some of the New nids battle reports, and it seems like we're gonna need to make room for a few flamers. The gaunt screens with all the buffs they can get look like they're brutally hard to kill at ranged.... this is where templates would be nice :/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

trindaros wrote:

 Zid wrote:
How does everyone find Forgefiends? they suck or worth trying out? I love the model

I like the model too, however it seems that they suck, as they have a mediocre BS and no way to negate the heavy weapon penalty. If you can spam the daemonforge stratagem, they might be get thier points back in damage, but you'd be wasting a lot of CP for it.

I'd love to field a triple plasmafiend, but paying more for less reliable guns is just stupid. I think they forgot to give the forgefiend and defiler some form of mitageting the heavy weapon penalty.

This is true... Sigh. I LOVE the model so much, I just wanna use two and nugle em' up all nurgly and eat some orks with them :( Guess I'll pass on buying a couple for now

I don't know about that, with nurgle and a deamon detachment with access to deamon nurgle powers you get access to the heal d3 wounds spell which is awesome. Also with autocannons it can sit with a hellbrute with ranged setup for 8 autocannon shots, which even with its bad bs (which 4+ isn't bad, ask any ork player what bad bs looks like) you can stick a cheap chaos lord near it for reroll 1's. So reroll 1's, hit on 4+ (or 5+ if moving), heal 1 wound a turn plus d3 with the spell, and deamonforge is only 1 CP, that's not a big deal. That's one bad Dino. Add a few hellbrutes in with it to run flank and that's a solid fire line for a deamon army which can then spam nurglings and deamonettes and bloodthirsters for an attack point.

If I hadn't painted my forgefiend as tzeentch that's how I would be running it right now.

Azuza001 wrote:
I don't know about that, with nurgle and a deamon detachment with access to deamon nurgle powers you get access to the heal d3 wounds spell which is awesome. Also with autocannons it can sit with a hellbrute with ranged setup for 8 autocannon shots, which even with its bad bs (which 4+ isn't bad, ask any ork player what bad bs looks like) you can stick a cheap chaos lord near it for reroll 1's. So reroll 1's, hit on 4+ (or 5+ if moving), heal 1 wound a turn plus d3 with the spell, and deamonforge is only 1 CP, that's not a big deal. That's one bad Dino. Add a few hellbrutes in with it to run flank and that's a solid fire line for a deamon army which can then spam nurglings and deamonettes and bloodthirsters for an attack point.

If I hadn't painted my forgefiend as tzeentch that's how I would be running it right now.

The large gribbles are less of an issue than the small ones. I was reading that one of the Thropes gives a wide -1 to hit buff to all the nid's, and one of the hive fleets also gets +1 armor (which I could be wrong here). Its the -1 to hit at ranged that has me a bit worried, because if we move at all a lot of our stuff will be hitting on 6's.

Oh I should note that it doesn't work in CC, but you wanna knock out as many hits as possible before they get to ya

Forgefiends need to be cheaper. That and/or get Legion benefits.

They aren't SUPER bad though.

 Zid wrote:
How does everyone find Forgefiends? they suck or worth trying out? I love the model

I have one painted up, and yes, I love the model. But every time i used it, it has been a disappointment. If its the most dangerous shooting threat, it gets taken quite quickly. And actually, its not that deadly in shooting either unless you are aiming at something with a lousy save. If I weren't trying to be very competitive, I think taking just one wouldn't gimp your list that much. Probably not difficult to have other more deadly threats in your list so that your opponent will prioritise those over your forgefiend. Then use daemon forge on it. If it lives to round two or three and does some decent shooting, then you should be satisfied already.

Only if you are going for fluffy and not trying to min max. I mean, taking one forgefiend in an already good list that complements the shooting in it won't suddenly gimp your list. But if you are looking for every single edge, then its probably not the best. Given the points drop in defilers, I think having a lascannon defiler outfitted for shooting is probably the same amount of points as a forgefiend and you would probably do better in every way.

How does everybody think Chapter Approved is going to change Chaos? If the point value rumors are true it seems like Terminators across the board might be getting a 5 ppm decrease, definitely makes them an even more appealing choice now even though they were really good before.

Terminators were better at the start of the edition when hordes weren't so popular yet. Now, with so many people running hordes, deep strike got nerfed hard.

Chaos is probably the only faction that can still do deep strike decently because we have warp time to get our terminators nearer and we have obliterators that can shoot 24 inches. But chaos also wants to use warp time on stuff like Mortarion or magnus.

I mean, if you are facing IG and they have those scout sentinels that scout forward. Add the 9 inch bubble you have to deep strike outside, you would be lucky if you are more than 5 inches from your own deployment line already.

You can run Alpha legion and sacrifice a squad of cultists and 1 cp on forward operatives to limit how much your opponent can scout move forward. I tried that. But you have to agree with whoever you are playing that deployment comes before movement, so your forward operatives cultist squad comes on before his scout sentinels get to scout move, because both essentially activate before the turn starts.

 Zid wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I don't know about that, with nurgle and a deamon detachment with access to deamon nurgle powers you get access to the heal d3 wounds spell which is awesome. Also with autocannons it can sit with a hellbrute with ranged setup for 8 autocannon shots, which even with its bad bs (which 4+ isn't bad, ask any ork player what bad bs looks like) you can stick a cheap chaos lord near it for reroll 1's. So reroll 1's, hit on 4+ (or 5+ if moving), heal 1 wound a turn plus d3 with the spell, and deamonforge is only 1 CP, that's not a big deal. That's one bad Dino. Add a few hellbrutes in with it to run flank and that's a solid fire line for a deamon army which can then spam nurglings and deamonettes and bloodthirsters for an attack point.

If I hadn't painted my forgefiend as tzeentch that's how I would be running it right now.

The large gribbles are less of an issue than the small ones. I was reading that one of the Thropes gives a wide -1 to hit buff to all the nid's, and one of the hive fleets also gets +1 armor (which I could be wrong here). Its the -1 to hit at ranged that has me a bit worried, because if we move at all a lot of our stuff will be hitting on 6's.

Oh I should note that it doesn't work in CC, but you wanna knock out as many hits as possible before they get to ya

There is a fleet adaptation that's allows your units to act as if they are always in cover for getting shot at which is quite cool, and you could add a venomth rope (think that's the unit) that gives -1 to hit, but that's about it. They didn't get an adaptation that gives everybody - 1 to hit like raven guard (personally I would rather always be in cover than -1 to hit outside 12", 2+ tactical marines? Yes please!)

I am not afraid of the smaller ones, though there is seriously one thing I am afraid of, and that's termagaunts near a tervigon and the stratagem "endless swarm". Before you could go for either kill the guant squad completely or kill daddy, now if the player keeps near the edge of the table even if you killed the entire squad 2cp and they are back still getting buffed from big daddy. So . . . Damn gaunts lol. Flamers of tzeench won't help as much. Might try to just hit them with deamonettes.

Still, on the forgefiend topic, with tzeench you get a 4+ invulnerable save.... That could be sweet. 8 shots at 36", strength 8, ap-1, 2 dmg per shot, rerolling all missed hits and wounds? Am I missing something? That thing should be able to wipe any mid level units off the board. Bikers, terminators, tyrnaid warriors, I mean your talking mathhammer for 6 hits, 6 wounds, that should kill a carnifex or at least make it almost dead in a single round of shooting. That's assuming you don't go ectoplasam for the extra weapon (myself I go cheap as possible).

Azuza001 wrote:

 Zid wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I don't know about that, with nurgle and a deamon detachment with access to deamon nurgle powers you get access to the heal d3 wounds spell which is awesome. Also with autocannons it can sit with a hellbrute with ranged setup for 8 autocannon shots, which even with its bad bs (which 4+ isn't bad, ask any ork player what bad bs looks like) you can stick a cheap chaos lord near it for reroll 1's. So reroll 1's, hit on 4+ (or 5+ if moving), heal 1 wound a turn plus d3 with the spell, and deamonforge is only 1 CP, that's not a big deal. That's one bad Dino. Add a few hellbrutes in with it to run flank and that's a solid fire line for a deamon army which can then spam nurglings and deamonettes and bloodthirsters for an attack point.

If I hadn't painted my forgefiend as tzeentch that's how I would be running it right now.

The large gribbles are less of an issue than the small ones. I was reading that one of the Thropes gives a wide -1 to hit buff to all the nid's, and one of the hive fleets also gets +1 armor (which I could be wrong here). Its the -1 to hit at ranged that has me a bit worried, because if we move at all a lot of our stuff will be hitting on 6's.

Oh I should note that it doesn't work in CC, but you wanna knock out as many hits as possible before they get to ya

There is a fleet adaptation that's allows your units to act as if they are always in cover for getting shot at which is quite cool, and you could add a venomth rope (think that's the unit) that gives -1 to hit, but that's about it. They didn't get an adaptation that gives everybody - 1 to hit like raven guard (personally I would rather always be in cover than -1 to hit outside 12", 2+ tactical marines? Yes please!)

I am not afraid of the smaller ones, though there is seriously one thing I am afraid of, and that's termagaunts near a tervigon and the stratagem "endless swarm". Before you could go for either kill the guant squad completely or kill daddy, now if the player keeps near the edge of the table even if you killed the entire squad 2cp and they are back still getting buffed from big daddy. So . . . Damn gaunts lol. Flamers of tzeench won't help as much. Might try to just hit them with deamonettes.

Still, on the forgefiend topic, with tzeench you get a 4+ invulnerable save.... That could be sweet. 8 shots at 36", strength 8, ap-1, 2 dmg per shot, rerolling all missed hits and wounds? Am I missing something? That thing should be able to wipe any mid level units off the board. Bikers, terminators, tyrnaid warriors, I mean your talking mathhammer for 6 hits, 6 wounds, that should kill a carnifex or at least make it almost dead in a single round of shooting. That's assuming you don't go ectoplasam for the extra weapon (myself I go cheap as possible).

How do you get a 4+ for Tzeentch? I thought marks didn't do anything other than give access to certain strategems and relics

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
How does everybody think Chapter Approved is going to change Chaos? If the point value rumors are true it seems like Terminators across the board might be getting a 5 ppm decrease, definitely makes them an even more appealing choice now even though they were really good before.

I hadn't seen that rumor. If true, it's welcome. I would definitely consider playing them more often.

Rumor had points for some loyalist and DG Terminators drop by 5 ppm so I'm just assuming if that's true then Chaos Terminators might get the same treatment. I love Terminators, so if they do get a nice 5 ppm price drop then I wouldn't mind that at all, Terminators in general are a bit overpriced as it is. As it stands a 5 man squad of combi plasma Termies in rapid fire range can output comparable damage to Oblits on average except they're actually good in CC, so if the points drop rumor is true then I'd definitely would like to see them on the table more.

 Zid wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:

 Zid wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I don't know about that, with nurgle and a deamon detachment with access to deamon nurgle powers you get access to the heal d3 wounds spell which is awesome. Also with autocannons it can sit with a hellbrute with ranged setup for 8 autocannon shots, which even with its bad bs (which 4+ isn't bad, ask any ork player what bad bs looks like) you can stick a cheap chaos lord near it for reroll 1's. So reroll 1's, hit on 4+ (or 5+ if moving), heal 1 wound a turn plus d3 with the spell, and deamonforge is only 1 CP, that's not a big deal. That's one bad Dino. Add a few hellbrutes in with it to run flank and that's a solid fire line for a deamon army which can then spam nurglings and deamonettes and bloodthirsters for an attack point.

If I hadn't painted my forgefiend as tzeentch that's how I would be running it right now.

The large gribbles are less of an issue than the small ones. I was reading that one of the Thropes gives a wide -1 to hit buff to all the nid's, and one of the hive fleets also gets +1 armor (which I could be wrong here). Its the -1 to hit at ranged that has me a bit worried, because if we move at all a lot of our stuff will be hitting on 6's.

Oh I should note that it doesn't work in CC, but you wanna knock out as many hits as possible before they get to ya

There is a fleet adaptation that's allows your units to act as if they are always in cover for getting shot at which is quite cool, and you could add a venomth rope (think that's the unit) that gives -1 to hit, but that's about it. They didn't get an adaptation that gives everybody - 1 to hit like raven guard (personally I would rather always be in cover than -1 to hit outside 12", 2+ tactical marines? Yes please!)

I am not afraid of the smaller ones, though there is seriously one thing I am afraid of, and that's termagaunts near a tervigon and the stratagem "endless swarm". Before you could go for either kill the guant squad completely or kill daddy, now if the player keeps near the edge of the table even if you killed the entire squad 2cp and they are back still getting buffed from big daddy. So . . . Damn gaunts lol. Flamers of tzeench won't help as much. Might try to just hit them with deamonettes.

Still, on the forgefiend topic, with tzeench you get a 4+ invulnerable save.... That could be sweet. 8 shots at 36", strength 8, ap-1, 2 dmg per shot, rerolling all missed hits and wounds? Am I missing something? That thing should be able to wipe any mid level units off the board. Bikers, terminators, tyrnaid warriors, I mean your talking mathhammer for 6 hits, 6 wounds, that should kill a carnifex or at least make it almost dead in a single round of shooting. That's assuming you don't go ectoplasam for the extra weapon (myself I go cheap as possible).

How do you get a 4+ for Tzeentch? I thought marks didn't do anything other than give access to certain strategems and relics

Weaver of fates psychic power, cast it on the forgefiend it increases it's save to 4+.

On top of that, you could cast presence on it as well for +1 to hit rolls couldn't you? It has the heretic astrades keyword. I am looking at taking this as part of my 1500 pt list for Thursday.

Sorcerer of Tzeentch with Mark of tzeench, presence and weaver of fate
2 squads of rubric marines, 5 men, 3 Inferno bolters 1 soul cannon, 1 asp sorcerer with staff
1 hellbrute with dual laz and scourge and mark of tzeench
Forgefiend with dual hades auto cannons, 1 ectoplasam cannon, Mark of Tzeentch

That's my fire base. I know my opponent will come to me, that's just the way her army works.

I am still working on deamon side, but I know I want a soulgrinder.

Azuza001 wrote:

 Zid wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
I don't know about that, with nurgle and a deamon detachment with access to deamon nurgle powers you get access to the heal d3 wounds spell which is awesome. Also with autocannons it can sit with a hellbrute with ranged setup for 8 autocannon shots, which even with its bad bs (which 4+ isn't bad, ask any ork player what bad bs looks like) you can stick a cheap chaos lord near it for reroll 1's. So reroll 1's, hit on 4+ (or 5+ if moving), heal 1 wound a turn plus d3 with the spell, and deamonforge is only 1 CP, that's not a big deal. That's one bad Dino. Add a few hellbrutes in with it to run flank and that's a solid fire line for a deamon army which can then spam nurglings and deamonettes and bloodthirsters for an attack point.

If I hadn't painted my forgefiend as tzeentch that's how I would be running it right now.

The large gribbles are less of an issue than the small ones. I was reading that one of the Thropes gives a wide -1 to hit buff to all the nid's, and one of the hive fleets also gets +1 armor (which I could be wrong here). Its the -1 to hit at ranged that has me a bit worried, because if we move at all a lot of our stuff will be hitting on 6's.

Oh I should note that it doesn't work in CC, but you wanna knock out as many hits as possible before they get to ya

There is a fleet adaptation that's allows your units to act as if they are always in cover for getting shot at which is quite cool, and you could add a venomth rope (think that's the unit) that gives -1 to hit, but that's about it. They didn't get an adaptation that gives everybody - 1 to hit like raven guard (personally I would rather always be in cover than -1 to hit outside 12", 2+ tactical marines? Yes please!)

I am not afraid of the smaller ones, though there is seriously one thing I am afraid of, and that's termagaunts near a tervigon and the stratagem "endless swarm". Before you could go for either kill the guant squad completely or kill daddy, now if the player keeps near the edge of the table even if you killed the entire squad 2cp and they are back still getting buffed from big daddy. So . . . Damn gaunts lol. Flamers of tzeench won't help as much. Might try to just hit them with deamonettes.

Still, on the forgefiend topic, with tzeench you get a 4+ invulnerable save.... That could be sweet. 8 shots at 36", strength 8, ap-1, 2 dmg per shot, rerolling all missed hits and wounds? Am I missing something? That thing should be able to wipe any mid level units off the board. Bikers, terminators, tyrnaid warriors, I mean your talking mathhammer for 6 hits, 6 wounds, that should kill a carnifex or at least make it almost dead in a single round of shooting. That's assuming you don't go ectoplasam for the extra weapon (myself I go cheap as possible).

The issue with the forgefiend is the AP-1 on its weapon and its 4+ to hit. If you use daemonforge, then it gets better at hitting. But at -1 AP, vehicles and stuff you are shooting at will probably get at least a 4+ save. If you can find a big juicy target that has crappy saves, then forgefiend would be good. But these days, even a Rhino has a 3+ save, and same goes for big monsters. A terminator would still have a 3+ save against your guns.

Yeah, that's the one thing I am worried about, but I am hoping pure number of shots will handle that.

Carnifexes only have 8 wounds, and if I get 6 hits that's 6 wounds (wounding on 3's and rerolling 1's and 2's thinks to deamonforge) and even if only 3 get through at that point with the carnifexes armor save that's 2 wounds left on the fex. If within 24" then the ectoplasam cannon should be able to do that with again reroll hit and wound.

Or I could just go 3 ectoplasam cannons, choices. . .

Azuza001 wrote:
Yeah, that's the one thing I am worried about, but I am hoping pure number of shots will handle that.

Carnifexes only have 8 wounds, and if I get 6 hits that's 6 wounds (wounding on 3's and rerolling 1's and 2's thinks to deamonforge) and even if only 3 get through at that point with the carnifexes armor save that's 2 wounds left on the fex. If within 24" then the ectoplasam cannon should be able to do that with again reroll hit and wound.

Or I could just go 3 ectoplasam cannons, choices. . .

Never go Ecto. On average, you're getting far less shots. With such a low BS to begin with, you want the largest amount of shots to make up for that. The -3 AP is deceptive when you're only getting 6 shots on average.

Yeah, that's what I thought the first time I looked at it, keep it as cheap as possible and just go for it.

Presence and deamonforge as a combo does make it much better though doesn't it? 3+, rerolling misses and wounds? I am going to try it anyways.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Forgefiends need to be cheaper. That and/or get Legion benefits.

They aren't SUPER bad though.

Agreed Forgefiends are too expensive right now to be worth taking. Not sure about the Legion Traits though, if they added LTs to Forge/Mauler fiends they could keep the prices they have since it would greatly improve thier abilities.

I.E. a Worldeater Maulerfiend or an Iron Warrior Forge Fiend would be rancid.

I kind of want to try four Fiends with Epidemius. One of each loadout. They should be able, with other units doing some softening up, to get a kill or two a turn for charging up Epi. I’m already taking a Nurgle DP and Oblits in most games and taking units out with them, this isn’t a big leap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh hey, this came up: if you've run a load of Heldrakes and Fire Raptors into the middle of the enemy, their gunners can't shoot at Characters who've deep striked into no man's land.

Could be fun. If you've Warptimed a FR with Miasma into the middle of the enemy, and charged various units, there might be some surprises you can pull.

How are Heldrakes? They seem like a good distraction unit and relatively durable with T7, 12W, 3+/5++, regeneration and with a 30 inch move they can get around the board quickly to tie up multiple valuable shooting units easily. Damage wise they don't seem particularly impressive but they can probably handle infantry and put a few wounds on a flyer well enough with a baleflamer and claws.

Mr. Funktastic wrote:
How are Heldrakes? They seem like a good distraction unit and relatively durable with T7, 12W, 3+/5++, regeneration and with a 30 inch move they can get around the board quickly to tie up multiple valuable shooting units easily. Damage wise they don't seem particularly impressive but they can probably handle infantry and put a few wounds on a flyer well enough with a baleflamer and claws.

Well, as the FLY, they can jump over a screening unit with their charge, giving their 30” a cheeky extension. Plus, you are not obliged to charge head-on; you can crab-scuttle, drift, moonwalk, and pirouette.

What this means is that, if there’s two gunner units, who are within 6.75” of one another and not Ultramarines or Eldar, you can kill both their shooting by poking each unit.

As far as I can tell, you are obliged to make all of your attacks, so if they’re not big things that’ll tank it, you’ll want to get multiple members of both units within 1” to prevent casualties from disengaging the units. Every model is assumed to carry a basic CCW, so you don’t *have* to eat three Bolter Devastators with your Heldrake Claws if you *need* to keep the Lascannons at the other end of the line engaged. Alternatively, just use the requisite pirouette at the end of your ignores-intervening-models charge to engage a THIRD unit.

You can even do a creative pile-in to drag units in that you didn’t declare charges on. If there’s a Hellblaster Squad with Captain and Lieutenant, you might not want to eat their Overwatch. So, don’t! Land between them and their 6” away screen, sideways. Charge the screen, sideways, ending 1” away. When you Pile In, turn 90 degrees and move so you’re a millimetre closer to the nearest model in the screen unit. You’ve just drawn the Hellblasters into the scrap, without taking a scratch from their guns. Eat the screen (you’re not allowed to eat Hellblasters as you didn’t declare a charge against them), and in the Enemy turn, run away and breathe fire on something else.

Definitely some great strategy, even if they don't do a lot of killing the ability to prevent multiple shooting units from fitting in turn 1 sounds invaluable. Even if they shoot at it turn 1, that's okay, that's more shooting that's not aimed at my units that can actually do some damage and for 185 points, it's not terribly expensive for what you can do with it.

I'm looking for a way to make a list that uses at least 4 squads of Obliterators. At my last tournament I used two squads and while they did some work I felt like I didn't have enough of them. I liked what I saw in that one list from the SoCal Open that had 5 squads, so I put together a list that would use a bunch of those guys and my favorite Death Guard unit, the Plagueburst Crawler. Here's what I came up with on Battlescribe:

My warlord would be the DG Lord, who would take the Arch Contaminator trait for reroll all wounds on the crawlers' weapons. I would screen said crawlers with the Plaguebearers and infiltrate the Cultists forward, where they could block scout moves and infiltrations along with the Nurglings. The Nurgle Herald would probably stay where he could cast Fleshy Abundance on the crawlers as they take damage. The Oblits would drop with the jump lord for the rerolls of 1's, with the Tzeentch ones dropping near the Changeling for -2 to hit (-1 from Changeling, -1 from Alpha Legion). I might be better off with the Fugaris helm on my DG Lord (which would allow me to spread the crawlers out wider to avoid one big enemy unit locking all of them down at once) rather than the Blade of the Hydra, although the Blade does make a decent charge deterrent.

The list has very little CC power at all, going with all guns instead. I feel like it would be fun to play at least, but I'm not sure it'll work as well as I'm hoping. Just an off-the-wall idea I've been bouncing around in my head lately.

It's not a bad list, I'm just worried on the lack of potential screening you might have.