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 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 MinscS2 wrote:
You can spam Boon of Mutation on a Exalted on Foot as well, so there's another (slight) edge.

IDK how slight the edge is, but having a 2+/3++ save is pretty good on anything.

Again, that's not an option with boon of mutation.

Having ahriman with 2+ to cast is though.

Hmm... If Boon of Mutation turns your (for example) Helm of the Third Eye-wearing Exalted Sorcerer into a chaos spawn, you lose access to the relic right? What about if he turns into a daemon prince, who would still be a valid choice for the relic?

He technically speaking doesn't turn, you get a new unit and remove the old one.
There is no way to transfer over relics-so don't put the helm of the dude you are booning. (you can put the crystal if you plan to use it right away though, being single-use and all)

orkswubwub wrote:

 Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
You cant use boon of mutation on ahriman if you got him the disk though.

So, if anything, the arguement for foot exalted/ahriman is that they can get boons. and some boons are just disgustingly powerful.
The movement boon, being a "lame" one is basically half a disk for free.
the +1 casting (and the "choose any" who is basically the same) is freakishly good. and its 11/36 of the possibilities without taking rerolls into account.
The FnP and -1 to hit are both nifty defensive layers, that stack.
+1T, +1W are not bad at keeping yourself alive either.

Naturally turning into a prince aint half bad if you are an exalted. a bit more questionable if you are ahriman, and maybe not as great for well equipped terminators, and naturally you have to have a reroll at hand to avoid spawning
But overall, casting this on your termi/foothriman/footxlated is rather powerful
And you can't do it if you don't have one.

+1 to all saves, which would give Ahriman a 2+ invul

Almost positive it caps at 3++

I don't think it does because you have to have a spell to get to a 3+, but as some one pointed out +1 to armor isn't on our list but +1 to casting is which is better imho. You could have Ahriman, a Termie sorcerer as warlord both of them casting with +2 on the 5 spells they can cast.

Well, the termi sorcerer only casts on a 2+ on his first spell as the familiar only boosts the first spell, but yea that's the just of it.

+1 casting is insane, and only non-daemon casters get to roll the dice.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, the termi sorcerer only casts on a 2+ on his first spell as the familiar only boosts the first spell, but yea that's the just of it.

+1 casting is insane, and only non-daemon casters get to roll the dice.

If you make him your warlord and give him the +1 casting trait he can get a +3 on his fisrt cast and +2 on the rest if you can land a 7

That’s a really big if. Personally it’s not worth strategizing for it orhonestly even selecting as a power. Even with Ahriman a dp and a term sorceror with +1 pay test warlord trait that’s only 7 spells, 1 of which will have a +2 to cast and 4 a +1 2 will get no bonus unless you use a stratagem. Depending on how many rubrics you use that number can go up of course but they’re risky if they perils and you don’t have a reroll available.

I believe you should use your 1 and 2w casters as last resort, because when they blow it’s not pretty. Whereas if one of your main casters perils you can still heal them.

Hello,

i just received the rubrics I orderered and I'm having trouble with the decal: I'm unable to find the decal which, on the front box, has been attached to the right shoulder. I even tried to look after thousand sons transfer sheet available at forgeworld but I couldn't find the symbol which matches. Can you please help me out? The marine I'm referring to is the one just behind the sorcerer on the left (he s carrying the warpflamer).
Moreover, the decals over the tabard are different from the one you get inside the box. again does anybody know where can I get these aswell?

Many thanks,

Spado

Spado wrote:
Hello,

i just received the rubrics I orderered and I'm having trouble with the decal: I'm unable to find the decal which, on the front box, has been attached to the right shoulder. I even tried to look after thousand sons transfer sheet available at forgeworld but I couldn't find the symbol which matches. Can you please help me out? The marine I'm referring to is the one just behind the sorcerer on the left (he s carrying the warpflamer).
Moreover, the decals over the tabard are different from the one you get inside the box. again does anybody know where can I get these aswell?

Many thanks,

Spado

Its painted on, goto warhammer tv and look for it, they have a guide.

The best stratagem is the Chaos familiar that gives you the choice of choosing across the 19spells for a sergeant sorcerer in rubric squad or scarab each turn

Khalan wrote:

Spado wrote:
Hello,

i just received the rubrics I orderered and I'm having trouble with the decal: I'm unable to find the decal which, on the front box, has been attached to the right shoulder. I even tried to look after thousand sons transfer sheet available at forgeworld but I couldn't find the symbol which matches. Can you please help me out? The marine I'm referring to is the one just behind the sorcerer on the left (he s carrying the warpflamer).
Moreover, the decals over the tabard are different from the one you get inside the box. again does anybody know where can I get these aswell?

Many thanks,

Spado

Its painted on, goto warhammer tv and look for it, they have a guide.

Both the tabard and the one on the right shoulder? Well f. me then lol xD

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Khalan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
Also infernal gateway has gone from a why would you ever to an auto take!

Magnus
Exaulted and Ahriman on discs
Daemon herald on disc
Use locus of conjugation stratagem to reroll psy tests

Cabal stratagem on Magnus and get him to cast infernal gateway with +4 to cast

Infernal gateway range now range 18” 9” range of effect d3 mortal on every unit and d6 on an 8+
Add gaze of fate or command rolls if the rolls are low

Watch the world burn...

....For two weeks until the FAQ comes out.

I don't know about you, but I've already ebayed the models for a list revolving around this strategy, I figure there's no chance at all that GW doesn't clarify that the 3" range of the AOE doesn't go to 9" with the tsons chapter tactic.

I dont see how this works at all, the effect and range of a spell are two different things. The range is only used on the initial cast. I don't see how you get a 9" treason.

Yup, what he said. The range of the spell is a very clear term. Now if the spell is a nova, then it will get extended by 6". But this is not the case for treason.

Before I get harsh replies I’d like to say that this needs an faq and I think it is raw over rai but..

Now to the argument.
Interestingly the tsons bonus says the ranges of spells not range,

At the moment Range is not defined at any point in the 8th edition psychic rules on the most basic level it says find the casting number roll 2d6 and do what the card says,

Range is also not defined in infernal gateway (in fact you’ll struggle to find the word range in most psychic powers) it states pick a model “within” 12” then it states that unit any unit “within” 3” takes a hit.

Are they not both ranges? The same word is used to describe both distances in game terms so are they not the same?

range is the distance between 2 points? Wether it’s the range of the power or the range of the effect.

Now I’m not saying it’s not gonna be faq’d and it clearly needs clarification but RAW the tsons bonus increases both.

Don’t hate me I didn’t write the rules...

demontalons wrote:
That’s a really big if. Personally it’s not worth strategizing for it orhonestly even selecting as a power. Even with Ahriman a dp and a term sorceror with +1 pay test warlord trait that’s only 7 spells, 1 of which will have a +2 to cast and 4 a +1 2 will get no bonus unless you use a stratagem. Depending on how many rubrics you use that number can go up of course but they’re risky if they perils and you don’t have a reroll available.

I believe you should use your 1 and 2w casters as last resort, because when they blow it’s not pretty. Whereas if one of your main casters perils you can still heal them.

tbh I think you're giving up a lot of reward for the risk of losing a command point/a couple rubrics. The games I've used them in so far, my rubric casters have been pretty valuable taking exactly the kind of spells you wouldn't want to bother with on your other casters, or in the case of deep striking squads, taking a spell so you don't have to send along a sorceror chaser just to buff them.

I had my rubrics casting Temporal Distortion (which one turn healed Ahriman two wounds he'd received from snipers which ended up saving him the next turn, and another took a predator from first bracket to above half HP) and the second squad with a backup cast of Glamour which was helpful from turn 2 onward because my other full sorc who had that got sniped.

On average, if you have 3 rubric casters tossing spells every turn of a 6-turn game, you'll expect to see exactly one peril the whole game (5.5% chance per cast). Casting them first and holding your CP or Gaze reroll allows you to reduce the risk of periling by 83%.

Temporal Distortion and Boon are the support powers I'd take on them and pretty much no other caster, and Weaver and Glamour are the best if you want them to act as insurance casters of important spells.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Guyver 3 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Khalan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Guyver 3 wrote:
Also infernal gateway has gone from a why would you ever to an auto take!

Magnus
Exaulted and Ahriman on discs
Daemon herald on disc
Use locus of conjugation stratagem to reroll psy tests

Cabal stratagem on Magnus and get him to cast infernal gateway with +4 to cast

Infernal gateway range now range 18” 9” range of effect d3 mortal on every unit and d6 on an 8+
Add gaze of fate or command rolls if the rolls are low

Watch the world burn...

....For two weeks until the FAQ comes out.

I don't know about you, but I've already ebayed the models for a list revolving around this strategy, I figure there's no chance at all that GW doesn't clarify that the 3" range of the AOE doesn't go to 9" with the tsons chapter tactic.

I dont see how this works at all, the effect and range of a spell are two different things. The range is only used on the initial cast. I don't see how you get a 9" treason.

Yup, what he said. The range of the spell is a very clear term. Now if the spell is a nova, then it will get extended by 6". But this is not the case for treason.

Before I get harsh replies I’d like to say that this needs an faq and I think it is raw over rai but..

Now to the argument.
Interestingly the tsons bonus says the ranges of spells not range,

At the moment Range is not defined at any point in the 8th edition psychic rules on the most basic level it says find the casting number roll 2d6 and do what the card says,

Range is also not defined in infernal gateway (in fact you’ll struggle to find the word range in most psychic powers) it states pick a model “within” 12” then it states that unit any unit “within” 3” takes a hit.

Are they not both ranges? The same word is used to describe both distances in game terms so are they not the same?

range is the distance between 2 points? Wether it’s the range of the power or the range of the effect.

Now I’m not saying it’s not gonna be faq’d and it clearly needs clarification but RAW the tsons bonus increases both.

Don’t hate me I didn’t write the rules...

It's also equally valid to argue that

A) Range is a value that is undefined for the purposes of the psychic phase. Therefore an undefined value is increased by 6", and the Tsons tactic has no in-game effect.

B) "Range" also refers to a range of VALUES (Webster, definition 1, "Range" as noun, "the area of variation between upper and lower limits on a particular scale.") so where abbreviations like "D3" actually refers to a RANGE of values between 1 and 3 to be randomly determined by the player, the Thousand Sons doctrine increases all variable damage spells by 6 on both the low and high end of the range. A D3 damage spell now does between 7 and 10 damage.

Both these are as valid as

C) "Range" is undefined with respect to the psychic phase, therefore it refers to any distance in inches that appears in the spell text. Any distance in inches that appears in the spell text cast by a Thousand Sons psyker is increased by 6".

Which is why until a FAQ is issued to resolve the legal argument you should probably refer to the common sense interpretation, "range is undefined with respect to the psychic phase, so we should use the definition given in for the shooting phase, which is the maximum distance between the firing model and the target."

That's just my opinion and I'm not trying to hate on you or anything, I agree that as currently written "C" is valid as well as "A" (B is mostly just a joke). Arguing for any of the three is likely to result in pretty much nothing but anger.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
let's talk "what is a more useful auxiliary" - Pink Horrors vs Tzaangors.

I'd like to know what peoples' opinions are on the pros and cons of including either of these units in a Thousand Sons army as a horde-clearing auxiliary. This is assuming that they are being used to support a more elite gunline/psyker army structure. The way I'm thinking of taking them is pretty similar.

-30 models
-deep striking thru a stratagem
-their offensive output is being used to clear out chaff, their defensive output is being used to impede progress to your valuable shooting units and tie up shooters.
-+1 to charges with an instrument

We have Tzaangors with blades, Tzaangors with AP/CS, and pink horrors just grooblin' at ya with their flames and their heavy metal/surfing hand signals. They come in at the exact same point cost if you leave the Icon off the horrors (I always take it purely for fun/cool model but it's probably not optimal, an opponent will always be focusing fire to take out a chunk of them if their back isnt totally broken)

Bladegors:

-Output 2 WS3+ S4 AP-1 attacks each
-T4 5++ body
-Can benefit from Warptime, Prescience, Glamour, Weaver for psychic powers
-1CP to deep strike, 2CP to attack again
-Can get +1 to hit aura from Shaman, Reroll 1s to hit aura from Tsons modelsl or Daemon Prince

Chaingors

-Output 3 WS3+ S4 AP- attacks and 1 BS4+ 12" S3 AP- shooting attack
-See above for all other benefits

Pink Horrors

-Output 3 S3 AP- shooting attacks that benefit from Strength buffs and 1 S3 AP- melee attack
-T3 4++ body
-Benefit from Flickering Flames, Boon of Change
-Can spend 2CP to get a 3++ (Warp Surge) and can spend 1CP to gain a single free cast of Firestorm from their banner bearer.
-Locus of Trickery gives them -1 to hit in melee roughly 25% of the time vs WS4+, 50% of the time vs WS3+.
-Get a Strength+1 aura from all heralds, Reroll hit rolls of 1 aura from Demon Princes, and reroll wound rolls of 1 if you take the warlord trait that gives that aura.

Both are also effected by the mutilath so either bonus strength or +1 ap on the Tzaangors and +1st on the horrors

St5 horrors with reroll 1’s to hit and wound with 90 shots +1 to wound so they are wounding anything in the game on 5+, t6-9 on 4+ t5 on 3+ and anything else on 2’s! No ap but weight of dice will kill most things!

For the purposes of my comparison, I'm not really factoring the mutalith because it's such a huge investment for something that will help 1-2 units in my army. An HQ buffer for the horrors gets me 2/5ths of the way to a 2nd battalion detachment, wheras a Tzaangor Shaman doesn't - but IMO the Tzaangors are superior sans buffer units because of their fight twice stratagem.

I do think the fact that the horrors throw their punches largely in shooting is a big deal though. It allows you to guarantee you'll get use out of them, as there's no chance you'll lose out on all the damage by flubbing the charge/warptime.

The biggest question for me is what to take with that second HQ slot in the daemon detachment if I want to go that route. Two squads of brims are a no brainer for the other two troops. But then a second herald seems low-value, changeling seems OK but only really to guard your Tsons daemon units (Disc guys and magnus), and the LOC seems too pricy.

the_scotsman wrote:
For the purposes of my comparison, I'm not really factoring the mutalith because it's such a huge investment for something that will help 1-2 units in my army. An HQ buffer for the horrors gets me 2/5ths of the way to a 2nd battalion detachment, wheras a Tzaangor Shaman doesn't - but IMO the Tzaangors are superior sans buffer units because of their fight twice stratagem.

I do think the fact that the horrors throw their punches largely in shooting is a big deal though. It allows you to guarantee you'll get use out of them, as there's no chance you'll lose out on all the damage by flubbing the charge/warptime.

The biggest question for me is what to take with that second HQ slot in the daemon detachment if I want to go that route. Two squads of brims are a no brainer for the other two troops. But then a second herald seems low-value, changeling seems OK but only really to guard your Tsons daemon units (Disc guys and magnus), and the LOC seems too pricy.

Fate skimmer
Blue scribes
30 pinks
10 brimstone
10 brimstone
511 points for a useful battalion

I rate the blue scribes -1 to cast and absorbing enemy spells is nice and if you take him with a fate skimmer and the chanting horrors upgrade it’s a bubble of -2 to cast which works more often than you think! He also auto comes with the reroll 1’s to wound if you make him the warlord, his auto cast spell is often good

Looks like Icon of Flame is down to 5 points? That seems handy.

Daedalus81 wrote:
Looks like Icon of Flame is down to 5 points? That seems handy.

Good, might consider taking them now.

At 10 points I'd never bother with them. You need 6 to average 1 MS per turn. 60 pts to average 1 mortal wound on something a turn? Pass.
At 30 points however...I might just take them.

Was browsing fw and I found this amazing contemptor:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AT/Thousand-Sons-Contemptor-Dreadnought

What weapon would you put on this guy? Is it worth to take it for the heavy long range firepower or do rubric marines have better options?

Cheers,

Spado

Remember that’s only if you’re within 12 inches all game. Even at 5 pts I feel like we can spend it on better things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spado I’ve had good luck giving my contemptor a soul burner and a butcher cannon. Gives you a good mix of shooty and cc. Be aware though they can die pretty easily if you don’t have a good target saturation for them

demontalons wrote:
Remember that’s only if you’re within 12 inches all game. Even at 5 pts I feel like we can spend it on better things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Spado I’ve had good luck giving my contemptor a soul burner and a butcher cannon. Gives you a good mix of shooty and cc. Be aware though they can die pretty easily if you don’t have a good target saturation for them

Cheers for the answer: i didnt notice that the soul burner allowed you to keep the claw that is actually nasty! What do you think about the C-beam? I honestly never heard about it but I was like: what the hell? This is amazing or am I missing something?

Spado wrote:
Was browsing fw and I found this amazing contemptor:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AT/Thousand-Sons-Contemptor-Dreadnought

What weapon would you put on this guy? Is it worth to take it for the heavy long range firepower or do rubric marines have better options?

Cheers,

Spado

I use the Osiron instead. Dual C-beams and I park him as far away from their heavy weapons as possible, which is feasible with a 72" range. He does need guards still.

Do people here run min-squad of rubrics in rhinos?

pismakron wrote:
Do people here run min-squad of rubrics in rhinos?

I used to, but now that min squads can't take soulreapers I don't take them at all.

Pretty sure it will be faq’ed to let them use it again.

Either than, or FAQ the CSM not to be able to.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Do people here run min-squad of rubrics in rhinos?

I used to, but now that min squads can't take soulreapers I don't take them at all.

Ditto im playing with the idea of 2 min squads with 3 flamers each and using them to just be a thorn in the side or no warp flamers to be rear guard to prevent deepstirkes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Arachnofiend wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Do people here run min-squad of rubrics in rhinos?

I used to, but now that min squads can't take soulreapers I don't take them at all.

demontalons wrote:Pretty sure it will be faq’ed to let them use it again.

BoomWolf wrote:Either than, or FAQ the CSM not to be able to.

They are well aware of the 1 in 10 situation.

Last Paragraph of the section on Inferno Boltguns.

"A unit of 10 can also take a soulreaper cannon. If you have Rubric Marines with inferno bolters, always take the soulreaper cannon – it hurts all the same targets your bolters do, but better, and with the same range, so it’s always contributing to the squad’s firepower."

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/30/eddie-agent-of-change-part-1-rubric-marinesgw-homepage-post-4/

I don't see them changing it when they are writing tactics articles including the information.

CSM will probably get thiers removed.

My money is on them keeping it the same on both ends.

Csm rubrics are not the same as tson rubrics. Tsons need more to get the Soulreaper but their asp sorcerer is cheaper and can actually cast stuff.

If they change csm asp sorcerer to match tson but keep the 1 in 5 then that will be a sour point.

 MinscS2 wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:
Looks like Icon of Flame is down to 5 points? That seems handy.

Good, might consider taking them now.

At 10 points I'd never bother with them. You need 6 to average 1 MS per turn. 60 pts to average 1 mortal wound on something a turn? Pass.
At 30 points however...I might just take them.

The only time they are worth running is when your bringing large numbers of min squad cultists and Tzaangors, you only have a 66% chance at getting 1 wound with 6 and that is while your within 12 and you can't even pick where it comes from you have to roll for each one, but with like 6 cultist Squads and 6 Tzaangor Squads you get 12 dice you have just shy of a 90% chance of getting 1 and like 80% of getting 2 which is better.

Now if they had the same mechanic except you got to pick, where the MW manifested it might be worth taking because you could put the wound on say a heavy weapons or a Special weapons squad rather then it hitting conscripts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Azuza001 wrote:
My money is on them keeping it the same on both ends.

Csm rubrics are not the same as tson rubrics. Tsons need more to get the Soulreaper but their asp sorcerer is cheaper and can actually cast stuff.

If they change csm asp sorcerer to match tson but keep the 1 in 5 then that will be a sour point.

It would be a sour point. Problem is its more effective to run min squads with Soul Reapers then pay the same amount for a Sorc that has little to no real spell options.

What about our DP as warlord? DP can cast 2 powers, we can give him +1 to cast. Looks better than +1 invul on Ahriman.