All is dust! All is dust! 8th Ed. TSons tactics!

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**MinscS2**

Agreed. Rubrics are pretty decent. The codex fixed one of their biggest flaws (being slow) with Webway Infiltration and Dark Matter Crystal.

Their main flaw right now is being slightly overpriced and having overpriced Warpflamers.

My main issue with the Soulreaper Cannon isn't that we cant have 1-per-5, but I think it should be 1-per-9: Favoured Number and would allow for Sorcerers/Exalted's to accompany them in Rhinos.

**Daedalus81**

Voidwraith wrote:

If only Rubrics had a better than normal rapid fire weapon. Something with, I dunno, a -2 AP or something. That, and just hear me out, what if they were as tough as Terminators against small arms fire and have a 5++ to help against the big guns? Wouldn't that be cool?

/sarcasm off

Look, I'm not saying they're the best troop unit in the game or anything, but to talk as if Rubrics have nothing going for them is insanity.

There's little you can do to convince them otherwise. Any perceived nerf is an underhanded sales tactic. As well as any buff.

**topaxygouroun i**

MinscS2 wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
What he is left with is the Thousand Sons lore to pick his power from, and that's a 7-9+ to cast lore..

6-9+ to cast lore, not 7-9+.

Weaver of Fates and Temporal Manipulation are both 6+.

Would you give the two most critical spells we have on an aspiring or on Ahriman?

**Azuza001**

Voidwraith wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:

Though it's not really a "free sorcerer" now is it? He can't cast smite to save his life and he instantly kills half his own unit the moment he perils. What he is left with is the Thousand Sons lore to pick his power from, and that's a 7-9+ to cast lore. Plus practically every spell that you would want to cast in the game you would actually give to a sorcerer with a bonus to cast. So in effect it's not a free sorcerer, it's a unit champion. And nobody pays for those any more either.

I will have to board the Nintura boat on this one. Rubrics without 4++, with 15 pt flamers (wot), with only 1 heavy weapon allowed in 10 models (like we are fricking cultists and not ancient powerful elite Cult troupe) and with an all-but-useless aspiring sorcerer whose only saving grace is a plasma pistol option. Rubrics are useless.

If only Rubrics had a better than normal rapid fire weapon. Something with, I dunno, a -2 AP or something. That, and just hear me out, what if they were as tough as Terminators against small arms fire and have a 5++ to help against the big guns? Wouldn't that be cool?

/sarcasm off

Look, I'm not saying they're the best troop unit in the game or anything, but to talk as if Rubrics have nothing going for them is insanity.

Lol yeah I am with you here. Take a 20 man squad, give the sorcerer weaver of fate to cast on themselves, let them lose on the board and watch the fun start. Expensive for sure but 2+/3++ or 3+/4++ on a large squad like that can have a serious effect on an enemy force. All that -2ap is very effective vs other enemy forces that use heavy elite units.

I have had a lot of success with 2 rubric squads of 10 and 2 cultist squads of 10, next game I am going to try 3 cultist squads of 10 and a single rubric of 20 set to "self sustainable" mode with that and see how they do. Maybe take a cheap exalted sorcerer for reroll 1's and dark crystal to help with mobility.

Anyone have any ideas about the "exalted" getting dual power swords for +1 attack? That seems... odd.

**topaxygouroun i**

Daedalus81 wrote:
Voidwraith wrote:

If only Rubrics had a better than normal rapid fire weapon. Something with, I dunno, a -2 AP or something. That, and just hear me out, what if they were as tough as Terminators against small arms fire and have a 5++ to help against the big guns? Wouldn't that be cool?

/sarcasm off

Look, I'm not saying they're the best troop unit in the game or anything, but to talk as if Rubrics have nothing going for them is insanity.

There's little you can do to convince them otherwise. Any perceived nerf is an underhanded sales tactic. As well as any buff.

And of course they get said things for free... Oh wait. They have to pay points for it, like everyone else? Huh? What kind of rules are those? /s.

Nobody said to buff the Rubrics. But after the official FAQ, there are still two entries and two profiles for the same unit. This is sloppy writing, considering how many people asked in the facebook pages for this to get addressed. It's quite simply actually. It should be one or the other. Which one is it, GW? Nope, no answer. Sure, while at it, it would be good if we got the soulreaper in 5 models, because Rubrics are supposed to be 10,000 year old war veterans, elite Cult troupe born by advanced sorcery, not random cultists. Like every other mainstay infantry in the GAME, they should be able to get their heavy weapon in 5 models. But the other option would also be acceptable, as long as it was clarified. But they released the FAQ and they did not even address the issue. That's why we are salty, not because we wanted 5 point bodies with 3+ armor and immunity to hit roll modifiers and overpowered guns.... oh wait.

**MinscS2**

topaxygouroun i wrote:

Would you give the two most critical spells we have on an aspiring or on Ahriman?

Hold on, let me go fetch the goalposts you just moved...

Temporal Manipulation is hardly "the most critical" power we have, so I'm perfectly happy giving it (and Flamestorm) on my Aspiring Sorcerers.
I usually give Weaver of Fates to my Tzaangor Shaman.

As for Ahriman...he's usually busy manfesting Dark Hereticus-powers, although I tend to give him Glamour as well.

**Heelidar**

I really hoped that they just make AS do a psy test with one dice.

**ArtyomTrityak**

So those discussion Defiler vs Forgefiend... Defiler looks much stronger. For extra 25pts we get MUCH more powerful melee and +2W.

**pismakron**

Heelidar wrote:
I really hoped that they just make AS do a psy test with one dice.

And why would you hope for that? They would be a LOT worse with only one die.

**Heelidar**

pismakron wrote:
Heelidar wrote:
I really hoped that they just make AS do a psy test with one dice.

And why would you hope for that? They would be a LOT worse with only one die.

Yes, but one die means no perils, and you never use AS to cast anything important anyway, while it is still enough to cast smite. After that nerf they can make soulreapers for 5 man squads and rubrics will get a much-needed benefit with a slight nerf that is not really important/

**MinscS2**

Heelidar wrote:

Yes, but one die means no perils, and you never use AS to cast anything important anyway

Correction: "You" might never use your AS to cast anything important.

I'm personally very happy that my Aspiring Sorcerers/Occult Sorcerers are 'real' Psykers with real powers, and not restricted to a gimped Smite.
Between Gaze of Fate and CP-reroll's they're usually safe from PotW.

Edit: If you're that afraid of PotW, just give them a "backup-power" to use if whatever primary caster who has it dies.

**Fenris-77**

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Fenris-77 wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
Fenris-77 wrote:
OK, I like it. Now, what happens when I ask if that 433pt unit does the job you describe better or worse than 60 Horrors. You see where I'm going? The Horrors drop 180 shots (out of DS if that's your thing) also with all kinds of buff potential.

Both units have lots of buffs available, but I wonder if KSons players aren't taking a bit of a bath taking Rubrics instead of Horrors, generally speaking. I do like Dark Matter Crystal Shenanigans, so there's that, but it feels more niche than a straight out equalizer. Plus the crystal could be used on other units for late game type[ stuff anyway. IDK. Maybe I just wanted Rubrics ot be a more obvious choice in the list that is defined by them.

You can't take horrors in TS armies, only summon them. You need to include Daemon detachments, and then you don't have TS any more.
That last bit is opinion, not fact. Some people might like mono armies, but that's not how 8th Ed works. Not hating btw, I like mono armies, they aren't the playing field that 8th works on (whether we like it or not).

Except it is not. The Thousand Sons codex is pretty clear on this. This is the tactics section about Thousand Son armies, not the tactics section about Daemon armies. Suggesting to remove rubric marines for horrors to improve the "Thousand Sons" army is anything but.

You can play horrors as part of the KSons codex if you feel like summoning them. So how is talking about Horrors vs Rubrics not part of this tactics thread? Further, since allied detachments are part of the game, and are generally chosen for, wait for it, tactical reasons, how is that discussion also not germane to the tactics thread in question? I respect your determination to go mono-codex, but that doesn't make you the arbiter of what's 'proper' or not for the tactics thread. Tactics discussions about Imperials Armies, Chaos Armies, and Eldar Armies will inevitably at times include discussions about 'soup' lists, because that's how the game works. If soup isn't your thing, that's fine, no one's forcing anyone here, but please refrain from telling me not to talk about stuff I'm allowed to field in my KSons army in the KSons tactics thread. Thanks.

**ArtyomTrityak**

Defiler vs Forgefiend vs Predator.

I'm going to buy some heavy support for my TS and thinking about them.

Forgefiend: Defiler looks superior to Forgefiend because it has MUCH more powerful melee and +2W for only +25pts.

Predators: are not so easy. They have -3W comparing to Defiler but they cost -20pts and have 3+ BS instead of Defilers 4+. But they do not have invul save so they are more durable. But they have killshot and if we get to go 1st we potentially can do A LOT of damage. Also if we run only Preds with autocanons they cost 130pts each! It's very very cheap for 2d3 dmg 3 shots.

Defiler: 14W, 5++, heal 1, flickering flames and daemonforge looks great. But they're only BS 4+. With lot of armies have -1 to hit we're hit only on 5s...

So actually right now it looks like 2 options are 2xDefilers with twin las or 3xPredators with autocanons.
Points wise it's 420pts for Defilers or 390pts for 3 Predators.
Average they do same damage but potentially can do killshot and do not require 1CP every turn for daemonforge.
Wounds count it's 28W total for Defilers or 33W total for Predators. This 5W difference might be same in average than 5++ Defiler save and does not rely on lucky / unlucky save rolls.

Your thoughts?

**Fenris-77**

I'd probably go Predators if you have room for the three-spot. If we're talking just one or two (so no kill shot) then I'd probably go Defiler, although maybe not with Twin LC for cost reasons.

**Heelidar**

MinscS2 wrote:
Heelidar wrote:

Yes, but one die means no perils, and you never use AS to cast anything important anyway

Correction: "You" might never use your AS to cast anything important.

I'm personally very happy that my Aspiring Sorcerers are actual Psykers with real powers, and not restricted to a gimped Smite.
Between Gaze of Fate and CP-reroll's they're usually safe from PotW.

Yes you might, but still, they are not reliable casters, and considering that you take only one spell from one discipline before the game, a discipline where most spells are not easy to cast, you are going to duplicate that spell on a more potent caster anyway. May be its just me, but I don't really need these underperforming sorcerors with access to one mediocre discipline and a chance to make a squad of expensive rubrics useless. I'd prefer a 5 man soulreaper with a smiting only AS and 1 deny. But again, I am talking about the realities of one unique spell for spell phase. If that beta rule gets removed, I'd think otherwise.

**pismakron**

Heelidar wrote:
pismakron wrote:
Heelidar wrote:
I really hoped that they just make AS do a psy test with one dice.

And why would you hope for that? They would be a LOT worse with only one die.

Yes, but one die means no perils, and you never use AS to cast anything important anyway, while it is still enough to cast smite. After that nerf they can make soulreapers for 5 man squads and rubrics will get a much-needed benefit with a slight nerf that is not really important/

1) It is easy to protect your aspiring sorcerers from peril with Gaze of Fate. With access to a single reroll the probability of perill is less than 1%, and you will only actually use the GoF reroll in less than 6% of your attempts, so most of the time the reroll is available for other uses. The aspiring sorcerers are pretty decent psykers really and amazingly cheap.

2) The soulreaper cannon is one per ten models, because there is one cannon and ten rubrics in the box. This is simply not going to change. I am still hoping for a slight point decrease on rubrics and on warpflamers. Intercessors and plague marines had a few downwards points adjustments once the meta had settled, so it is not too unlikely that the same will happen for Rubrics.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Heelidar wrote:

Yes you might, but still, they are not reliable casters, and considering that you take only one spell from one discipline before the game, a discipline where most spells are not easy to cast, you are going to duplicate that spell on a more potent caster anyway. May be its just me, but I don't really need these underperforming sorcerors with access to one mediocre discipline and a chance to make a squad of expensive rubrics useless. I'd prefer a 5 man soulreaper with a smiting only AS and 1 deny. But again, I am talking about the realities of one unique spell for spell phase. If that beta rule gets removed, I'd think otherwise.

They are just as reliable as Demon Princes, Exalteds without relics and sorcerers. And they are certainly more reliable when casting with two dice than when casting with one.

I simply do not understand the complaining. It is a 27 point psyker. Not a gimped psyker like an astropath or a warlock, but a plain old psyker. For 27 points.

It is a steal.

**topaxygouroun i**

1) It is easy to protect your aspiring sorcerers from peril with Gaze of Fate. With access to a single reroll the probability of perill is less than 1%, and you will only actually use the GoF reroll in less than 6% of your attempts, so most of the time the reroll is available for other uses. The aspiring sorcerers are pretty decent psykers really and amazingly cheap.

2) The soulreaper cannon is one per ten models, because there is one cannon and ten rubrics in the box. This is simply not going to change. I am still hoping for a slight point decrease on rubrics and on warpflamers. Intercessors and plague marines had a few downwards points adjustments once the meta had settled, so it is not too unlikely that the same will happen for Rubrics.

1. It's a classic case of "Just because you can...". Sure we can do it. But that does not change the fact that the AS is badly designed. This is not 5th edition warhammer, with instinctive behavior tyranids killing their own and necrons disappearing at 25%. This is 2018. Building a unit which has the possibility to - by making use of its very own special ability - instantly kill 2d3 models off its own unit while suiciding itself, with no save allowed whatsoever, is just bad game design at this point. We should be incentivized to play strategically to the game, not to play strategically in order to prevent design oversights.

2. The wording in the CSM codex is perfectly fine, and it allows for 1 soulreaper in 5 models or more AND 2 soulreapers in 20 models. Perfectly in accordance with the rubrics kit and keeping rubrics relevant at the same time. But the worst thing about this issue is that it was not addressed at all! We did not get a yes or a no. So now we still have the same uncertainty as before, only now it's post FAQ. And we still have 2 separate entries for the same unit.

**nintura**

<quote>

2) The soulreaper cannon is one per ten models, because there is one cannon and ten rubrics in the box. This is simply not going to change. I am still hoping for a slight point decrease on rubrics and on warpflamers. Intercessors and plague marines had a few downwards points adjustments once the meta had settled, so it is not too unlikely that the same will happen for Rubrics.

</quote>

Funny, it's still 1 in 5 in the chaos dex.

**AdmiralHalsey**

nintura wrote:
<quote>

2) The soulreaper cannon is one per ten models, because there is one cannon and ten rubrics in the box. This is simply not going to change. I am still hoping for a slight point decrease on rubrics and on warpflamers. Intercessors and plague marines had a few downwards points adjustments once the meta had settled, so it is not too unlikely that the same will happen for Rubrics.

</quote>

Funny, it's still 1 in 5 in the chaos dex.

Take a Vanguard Detachment of them?

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

pismakron wrote:
Heelidar wrote:
I really hoped that they just make AS do a psy test with one dice.

And why would you hope for that? They would be a LOT worse with only one die.

A lot worse means a lot cheaper as well, which would help with the points cost situation. On top of that not having to waste CP and GoF reroll to make sure you don't lose 70 points worth of models and instead simply

MinscS2 wrote:
Heelidar wrote:

Yes, but one die means no perils, and you never use AS to cast anything important anyway

Correction: "You" might never use your AS to cast anything important.

I'm personally very happy that my Aspiring Sorcerers/Occult Sorcerers are 'real' Psykers with real powers, and not restricted to a gimped Smite.
Between Gaze of Fate and CP-reroll there usually safe from PotW.

Edit: If you're that afraid of PotW, just give them a "backup-power" to use if whatever primary caster who has it dies.

Okay, couple of questions.

1.) How many Rubric squads do you bring IIRC you said somewhere that you would NEVER bring more then 1 unit of Rubricae its either SOT or Rubrics correct?

2.) How do you make them reliable when casting do you just give them a 6+ power (72%), or do you use CF and have them cast a 7+ spell (58% goes to 83%)?

3.) Why not take a unit of Tzaangors or Cultists instead and bring 1 more Sorc to cast those spells? He is literally just as likely to cast them, will survive perils, and can be healed afterwards.

4.) What role do your Rubrics fill?

MinscS2 wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:
What he is left with is the Thousand Sons lore to pick his power from, and that's a 7-9+ to cast lore..

6-9+ to cast lore, not 7-9+.

Weaver of Fates and Temporal Manipulation are both 6+.

WoF is a crucial spell, and if your bringing TM its for a reason and you want to cast it somewhat reliably, that being said 72% is fairly reliable.

Voidwraith wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:

Though it's not really a "free sorcerer" now is it? He can't cast smite to save his life and he instantly kills half his own unit the moment he perils. What he is left with is the Thousand Sons lore to pick his power from, and that's a 7-9+ to cast lore. Plus practically every spell that you would want to cast in the game you would actually give to a sorcerer with a bonus to cast. So in effect it's not a free sorcerer, it's a unit champion. And nobody pays for those any more either.

I will have to board the Nintura boat on this one. Rubrics without 4++, with 15 pt flamers (wot), with only 1 heavy weapon allowed in 10 models (like we are fricking cultists and not ancient powerful elite Cult troupe) and with an all-but-useless aspiring sorcerer whose only saving grace is a plasma pistol option. Rubrics are useless.

If only Rubrics had a better than normal rapid fire weapon. Something with, I dunno, a -2 AP or something. That, and just hear me out, what if they were as tough as Terminators against small arms fire and have a 5++ to help against the big guns? Wouldn't that be cool?

/sarcasm off

Look, I'm not saying they're the best troop unit in the game or anything, but to talk as if Rubrics have nothing going for them is insanity.

Except most people agree that the more "elite" your units are the worse off they are, your not making a case they are good. Your making the case that they are bad like, really bad especially since IIRC they are one of the most expensive Troops unit in the game (on a per model basis).

**the_scotsman**

topaxygouroun i wrote:
MinscS2 wrote:
mortetvie wrote:

This unit, when combined with Veterans of the Long War just tore things up and generally killed whatever they shot at.

I'd expect nothing less from a 660pts-unit.

I'd never field this myself though, you've basically lost the game if you fail Warptime.

That's why another rubric unit or flying character and cabalistic ritual are mandatory for alpha strike lists. Casting Warptime with a +4 bonus with a gaze of fate reroll should be more or less guaranteed. Also, my first thought was "oh no, 17 flamers in a unit, what a waste!" Then I remembered we can actually split fire at will. And Votlw once for all of them..... Then weaver of fates and glamour of tzeentch to survive the incoming onslaught. Then dark matter crystal out of combat and repeat...

I think if we manage to do this we could really finish whole games by turn two...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
On an unrelated topic:

Is anyone else annoyed that the plagueburst clawler is a lot better than the Defiler?

In terms of armaments they are really comparable. Mortar is almost the same as the battle cannon, the crawler's side weapons are practically lascannons. They are both daemon engines, so increased survivability for a BS trade off.

In numbers:

Mortar: 12-48", same shots, str, ap and damage.
Battle cannon: 72" While battle cannon is better in range, 72" really is an overkill, 48" is more than enough and the mortar is also a plague weapon.

Entropy cannons vs lascannons: Entropy cannon has 36" range vs 48", one less strength but one better ap which I dare say is better for the mortar.

Survivability wise they are practically equal. T8 12W 5++/5+++ for the crawler, T7 14W, 5++ and 1 heal/turn free for the defiler. Pretty much the same if you ask me.

In hth the defiler has a clear advantage, but how often does the defiler end up in close combat really?

Ultimately though, even if they are pretty similar to their role, plagueburst crawler comes at 150 pts while a lascannon defiler clocks at 200. Do you think the added hth potential justifies the 50 pt price hike? Even if it does, do you think this hurts the overall army, since the "jack of all trades" approach never really worked in Warhammer?

No, I think the extra 50 points is completely justified on the defiler. What needs to be understood is it's not just good in melee, it's freaking AMAZING in melee. And it's honestly not too hard to get it there or at least threaten charges, given that it moves 8" and can warptime. I usually find that I only really need warptime turn 1 for getting my bomb where it's going, and then in later turns I'm either using it to shuffle rubrics around, sprinting a daemon prince somewhere, or just passing it up in favor of smite. The defiler gives me an excellent turn 2-3 warptime target. Generally, turn 1 I will move it normally, if there's a good armored target open for a shooting attack I drop 2cp on Infernal and Daemonforge and go to town, otherwise I advance and pop smoke. I usually give it Glamor and my Tzaangors Weaver and Prescience turn 1, but most often my opponent's first turn with the tzaangors on the board is spent largely trying to clear out the tzaangors. A warptimed Defiler turn 2 is usually in melee at that point, and it does some serious work alongside a daemon prince.

**Overdose**

With the FAQ update giving the option for the extra power swords making an Exalted Sorceror basically an Assassin seems pretty fun to do.

What would I need to run the Exalted Sorceror with to make full use?

And also, is summoning a no-no strategy?
I like the idea of dropping a Horror bomb but I don't see much people discussing it. So not allying daemons, but summoning them.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

Heelidar wrote:
I really hoped that they just make AS do a psy test with one dice.

I was hoping they would make the AS a seperate unit entirely and give them a 3" aura that benifitted units with the AiD rule. Same for SOT.

**Daedalus81**

Overdose wrote:
With the FAQ update giving the option for the extra power swords making an Exalted Sorceror basically an Assassin seems pretty fun to do.

What would I need to run the Exalted Sorceror with to make full use?

And also, is summoning a no-no strategy?
I like the idea of dropping a Horror bomb but I don't see much people discussing it. So not allying daemons, but summoning them.

Take Seer's Bane and use Boon on him.

Summoning is fine. It's a great way to bring the Changeling onto the table with little fuss.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

Azuza001 wrote:
Voidwraith wrote:
topaxygouroun i wrote:

Though it's not really a "free sorcerer" now is it? He can't cast smite to save his life and he instantly kills half his own unit the moment he perils. What he is left with is the Thousand Sons lore to pick his power from, and that's a 7-9+ to cast lore. Plus practically every spell that you would want to cast in the game you would actually give to a sorcerer with a bonus to cast. So in effect it's not a free sorcerer, it's a unit champion. And nobody pays for those any more either.

I will have to board the Nintura boat on this one. Rubrics without 4++, with 15 pt flamers (wot), with only 1 heavy weapon allowed in 10 models (like we are fricking cultists and not ancient powerful elite Cult troupe) and with an all-but-useless aspiring sorcerer whose only saving grace is a plasma pistol option. Rubrics are useless.

If only Rubrics had a better than normal rapid fire weapon. Something with, I dunno, a -2 AP or something. That, and just hear me out, what if they were as tough as Terminators against small arms fire and have a 5++ to help against the big guns? Wouldn't that be cool?

/sarcasm off

Look, I'm not saying they're the best troop unit in the game or anything, but to talk as if Rubrics have nothing going for them is insanity.

Lol yeah I am with you here. Take a 20 man squad, give the sorcerer weaver of fate to cast on themselves, let them lose on the board and watch the fun start. Expensive for sure but 2+/3++ or 3+/4++ on a large squad like that can have a serious effect on an enemy force. All that -2ap is very effective vs other enemy forces that use heavy elite units.

I have had a lot of success with 2 rubric squads of 10 and 2 cultist squads of 10, next game I am going to try 3 cultist squads of 10 and a single rubric of 20 set to "self sustainable" mode with that and see how they do. Maybe take a cheap exalted sorcerer for reroll 1's and dark crystal to help with mobility.

Anyone have any ideas about the "exalted" getting dual power swords for +1 attack? That seems... odd.

Why is that odd? They are changing the army to a melee focused army with casting support.

**Azuza001**

Maybe odd wasn't the right word, but I said that because it's not like it was something that was there that was forgotten about in earlier versions of the game. It's not something I expected in the faq or even considered them doing.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea. Replace my force staff for 2 power swords, and keep my pistol? Cool. Would have been much cooler if I could do it on an exalted on a disk, and it does make exalted a bit more unique compared to Ahriman, but it's not enough to make me go "forget that, I am taking 2 dualist exalteds now" .

If I do take exalteds now I will definitely do that upgrade, but if my exalted is in cc either things just went really bad or I am very desperate.

**taetrius67**

And you loose d3 dommage on the exalted not sure this one + attack is realy a buff.

**MinscS2**

Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:

Okay, couple of questions.

1.) How many Rubric squads do you bring IIRC you said somewhere that you would NEVER bring more then 1 unit of Rubricae its either SOT or Rubrics correct?

2.) How do you make them reliable when casting do you just give them a 6+ power (72%), or do you use CF and have them cast a 7+ spell (58% goes to 83%)?

3.) Why not take a unit of Tzaangors or Cultists instead and bring 1 more Sorc to cast those spells? He is literally just as likely to cast them, will survive perils, and can be healed afterwards.

4.) What role do your Rubrics fill?

1) 1-2 squads, either 1x20 or 2x10 (in Rhinos preferably). My comment was about either taking a big squad of Rubrics (20) or a big squad of SOT's. Never take a big squad of both. I don't mind taking a big squad of SOT's and 1-2 10-man squads of Rubrics in the same list.

2) 6+ power or an "unimportant" 7+ power like Firestorm/Gift. As for reliability, Gaze of Fate and (if need be) a CP-reroll to prevent them from PotW:ing. If I cast Firestorm or Smite, the re-roll is more intended as preventing PotW rather than actually making the power go off.

3) Apples and Oranges. A Squad of Rubrics fill a entirley different role than a unit of Tzaangors/Cultists and a Sorcerer. One shoots, the other is a character with some fodder.

4) Depends. If one big squad of 20 then as part of an alphastrike. Deepstrike them close to something, VotLW (and preferably prescience and DP/Exalted Aura) and delete something.
If in smaller squads of 10 then I usually put them in Rhinos and use them as 'traditional' rubrics. Drive forward, hop out and shoot something.
They're essentially "dps" with remarkable resilience towards small-arms fire. And if my opponent shoots them with plasma/AT-weaponry, then at least he's not shooting my vehicles.
If nothing else they're one of three possible troop-choices, and since I don't like Cultists and don't always want to run Tzaangors (or only Tzaangors), they usually find a way into my lists. I also really like the Model's.

**Tuluth**

So, thinking about the dual sword Exalted Sorcerer. Yes, this is a gimmick type unit, but with a low investment load-out, it can become a good character assassin. Still, best to run him with support of some type (I'm actually thinking Tzaangor Enlightened with the spear, or Screamers).

Give him two swords (given), and the artifact Seer's Bane (S: User, AP3 D3 Dam, Special: doubles bearer's strength when targeting Psykers or models with Ld 9+) Give him Diabolic Strength, and another power (Boon of Mutation, Temporal Manipulation, Weaver of fates, Death Hex are all good options). When buffed with DS, you're getting 6 S6 attacks, doubling to 6 S12 attacks against most characters, psykers, and some vehicles. Put him on a disk for better movement and another S4 attack, or keep him on foot to benefit from Infantry key word. Again, kinda a gimmick, but something that might be fun in a casual game.

**Arachnofiend**

taetrius67 wrote:
And you loose d3 dommage on the exalted not sure this one + attack is realy a buff.

If you're taking two power swords you're replacing one of them with Seer's Bane, which is a force weapon.