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Anvildude wrote:
Are Meganobz still slower on-foot than Boyz? And, like, what's the point ratio? Could you trade a 30 boyz mob for 15 Meganobz? Could you, instead of running 180 boyz footslogging in 6 mobz, run 90, or even 60 Meganobz in 3 or 4 mobz? Could the same enemy firepower that takes out those 90 meganobz in a turn, as they could 90 boyz?

Also, Meganobz can be Da Jump'd, like Boyz, right?

42 pts so not nearly as good ratio as you hoped. Movement 4 so slower than boyz. Yes for da jump but that hits into issue of 50-50 chance to charge and if you fail that squad is dead, dead, dead.

They ARE tougher point to point against stuff like bolters and lasguns but...really? If those are your biggest threat you are doing great already. Game has simply abundant number of weapons that have armour save modifier and multiple damage. And often fire lots of shots as well.

Now W3 does help as D2 weapons need 2 wounds but there's also flat D3 weapons so...

They suffer from same issue as terminators. Expensive, 2+ save isn't as hot as it seems to be and multi wound per model hurt by abundance of multi wound weapons in the game. Terminators suck and they have 5++ natively. And frankly only kind of terminators I see in practice are ones that sport 3++.

Then you factor in meganobz rather dissapointing damage output. Even if you get into combat you will struggle to kill a vehicle! The -1 to hit and lack of attacks(their A stat isn't that much better compared to boyz and few in numbers) means they are often just causing minor damage, enemy fall backs and then blows them off. If they even got into combat alive.

Meganobz are super cool and I would love to field and have but darn they just gets deleted too easily by TAC enemy list. Every time I have fielded when enemy gets to shoot at them(ie baneblade was blown apart) they die without even taxing him that much. Albeit that's only 5 models and maybe bik mek and ghazkhul but still. Dead, dead, dead. Well okay Ghaz takes bit more firepower to take down.

And the knight army arrival doesn't even help. They have lots of weapons that are practically geared to killing mega nobz...

Rismonite is of course free to try it and prove himself right and all of us wrong That's of course one way. Take lots of those and show how tournaments are won! But I'm suspicious of it resulting in anything but massacre losses. Would love to be proven wrong though.

You pretty much summed up why meganobz are awful. The slowest movement stat in the game, no invuln save or ablative wounds so extremely squishy despite having three wounds, absolutely abysmal damage output with only 3 d3 attacks hitting on 4s, all for way too many points.

to make meganobs work I'd give them modes.

1 - Move 6 and advance 2d6 drop the lowest then can charge.
2 - Move 4 can't charge but invuln 4+
3 - Move 4 can't advance but +1 bs and ignore all negative modifiers

If you haven't had a turn yet, they start in 2 by default.

I'd love me some dakka meganobs with combi rokkits shooting their guns and rokkits with a bonus to hit rather than penalties upon penalties then charging some vehicle.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
You pretty much summed up why meganobz are awful. The slowest movement stat in the game, no invuln save or ablative wounds so extremely squishy despite having three wounds, absolutely abysmal damage output with only 3 d3 attacks hitting on 4s, all for way too many points.

Yep. People equate survivability with effectiveness, but it's really survivability x damage output = effectiveness, not even counting things like movement speed and having to wait until turns 4 or 5 before they get to attack. It's why marines are so weak...even if they were 12 points they would be as survivable as 3 guardsmen but have WAY less output. Meganobs are like tacticals x 100.

The biggest thing wrong with meganobz? the same thing that's wrong with every ork: microscopic output on turns 1 and 2 because of BS5+. If they were 2+/3++ they would still suck because a near complete lack of shooting.

Meganobz are surprisingly tough in that even without a Painboy buff a Meganob will more often than not survive being shot with a lascannon. That said there is still so much firepower in the game they're going to get killed walking around on foot and the transports add a lot to the cost. Hopefully transports drop in cost.

Meganobz used to be able to take a Mega Boosta upgrade back when they counted as being in difficult terrain all the time. Something like that could come back as a wargear option or stratagem. It would be pretty funny, but ridiculous, if they counted as having a jump pack for a turn but had a chance of crashing and burning.

SemperMortis wrote:

Anvildude wrote:
Are Meganobz still slower on-foot than Boyz? And, like, what's the point ratio? Could you trade a 30 boyz mob for 15 Meganobz? Could you, instead of running 180 boyz footslogging in 6 mobz, run 90, or even 60 Meganobz in 3 or 4 mobz? Could the same enemy firepower that takes out those 90 meganobz in a turn, as they could 90 boyz?

Also, Meganobz can be Da Jump'd, like Boyz, right?

Meganobz are 42pts each, or equivalent to 7 boyz. They have 3 T5 wounds and a 2+ save and are Movement 4. They have NO invuln and the only way to get one is to take a Big Mek with a KFF. So what you get is a 42pt model that every lascannon and heavy weapon in the game will be pointed at. Even failing that, most factions spam enough anti-infantry weapons to ice these guys pretty quickly, and that is before you even get into gimmicks. There are so many -2+ AP weapons in the game with multi damage that its impossible to run these dudes. And each one you lose is equivalent to losing 7 boyz, so you can field 4 Meganobz or 28 Boyz. By my math that means you get more then TWICE as many wounds for boyz, as well as significantly better leadership...Ohh did I mention that Meganobz are LD 7 (6 if you lose the boss nob).

Meganobz are t4.
I've run them. I have 15. They're ok in super casual games when you can ask your opponent not to bring certain weapons to the game. Mefanobz end up as worse killa kanz with infantry keyword.

Overall i'd characterise them as bad. There's nothing going on for them other than their increased durability vs ap- d1 weapons. But they don't fit in with boyz, so in real games are not great. You'll always just want to bring more boyz cause the enemy has enough antitank weapons to wreck manz before they do anything.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
Meganobz are surprisingly tough in that even without a Painboy buff a Meganob will more often than not survive being shot with a lascannon. That said there is still so much firepower in the game they're going to get killed walking around on foot and the transports add a lot to the cost. Hopefully transports drop in cost.

Meganobz used to be able to take a Mega Boosta upgrade back when they counted as being in difficult terrain all the time. Something like that could come back as a wargear option or stratagem. It would be pretty funny, but ridiculous, if they counted as having a jump pack for a turn but had a chance of crashing and burning.

And 7 boyz are even tougher against lascannon. Stats aren#t all about survivability. Points factor too. Ig and dark eldar basic infantry are one of the toughest targets out there

7 boyz in points!? WTF! Like, I had an idea of their stats- that's why I figured they'd only be worth 2 or 3 Boyz at most. Geeze, yeah, that's supremely expensive for what you get. Yeah, okay, no mobz of meganobz trudging up the table, then.

Anvildude wrote:
7 boyz in points!? WTF! Like, I had an idea of their stats- that's why I figured they'd only be worth 2 or 3 Boyz at most. Geeze, yeah, that's supremely expensive for what you get. Yeah, okay, no mobz of meganobz trudging up the table, then.

Yeah 7 boyz with power klaw and kustom shoota, 8 and spare with saws.

2 boyz(12 pts) would be too cheap but currently it's ridiculously expensive. Speed, lack of inv and multiple wounds counting for less than one might think makes them less ideal. 3 wounds counted more in 7th ed but in 8th ed there's just so much multi damage weapons, often at multi shot as well.

Well at least I disagree with above comment that lack of proper guns makes them worthless no matter for cost(and hey if they costed 1 pts per model would anybody really say they suck...so clearly there's point value where they become worthwhile). Death company isn't renowned as shooty units(often enough having like power fist+chainsword combo foregoing shooting alltogether!) yet they are seen use. It's not impossible to have assault dedicated unit but it's hard.

Anvildude wrote:
7 boyz in points!? WTF! Like, I had an idea of their stats- that's why I figured they'd only be worth 2 or 3 Boyz at most. Geeze, yeah, that's supremely expensive for what you get. Yeah, okay, no mobz of meganobz trudging up the table, then.

And that's pretty much the state of our entire codex.

Oh, I could take a killa kan, or I could take more boyz! Oh, I could take lootas, but more boyz would be more effective! Biker models are cool, oh, but if I get rid of them, I can take more boyz!

It's because boyz are the best at killing infantry, which incidentally is the only thing orks are actually decent at. Why take anything else when boyz do it better and cheaper?

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
It's because boyz are the best at killing infantry, which incidentally is the only thing orks are actually decent at. Why take anything else when boyz do it better and cheaper?

And because they are only ones you can have enough to really survive even 3-4 without being tabled.

Well grots are also decent addition. Not to kill but screen to die, objective grabbing and major roadblock. They are intended to either die(offensive power irrelevant) or sit far from threat(offensive power irrelevant).

aw man...this thread is so depressing
...I mean, I do like running green tide-style lists...but there's so many other cool options I'd love to run...but yeah, there's just not much point :/

 ZoBo wrote:
aw man...this thread is so depressing
...I mean, I do like running green tide-style lists...but there's so many other cool options I'd love to run...but yeah, there's just not much point :/

Yeah orks are in depressing place :( Which is why I have shelved them for a while. Greentide really struggles in 2k 2h time limit.

 Rismonite wrote:
It does indeed look like common sense when you assume I meant Stormboyz or Tankbustas. But is an army that kills 90x6 = 450 points of Ork Boyz also killing 450/42 = 10+ Meganobz in two turns? Are TAC armies doing this?

"Meganobz suck" "Everything is bad"

Yes.. yes I know, thanks for the replies. Are TAC armies really handing out all this dakka?

EDIT Can you guyz design an army that kills 90 Ork Boyz in two turns and would also kill more then ten meganobz in two turns?

A single knight with two avenger gatling cannons will kill 25.5 boyz per turn, or 5.4 MANz, and that's not even considering relics, warlord traits, stratagems or house bonuses for them.
There are tons of armies in that tournament which run two or three knights - an army with two knights will kill 20 MANz in two turns, a full knight army (3 knights+ armingers) has no issue killing 2000 points of MANz turn 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZoBo wrote:
aw man...this thread is so depressing
...I mean, I do like running green tide-style lists...but there's so many other cool options I'd love to run...but yeah, there's just not much point :/

What's depressing about this?

Unlike in 7th where already we had our codex, the army was even worse, and GW was not doing re-balances twice a year, there is still hope.

We have not gotten our codex yet, and it has been announced to be one of the next two. Wait till GW is done high-fiving themselves over knights and AoS 2 and then we will be seeing either ork or space wolve previews. Even if it's fuzzy marines first, two weeks after we will get orks.

No need to lose your mind over waiting another month or so for the new codex.

 Jidmah wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZoBo wrote:
aw man...this thread is so depressing
...I mean, I do like running green tide-style lists...but there's so many other cool options I'd love to run...but yeah, there's just not much point :/

What's depressing about this?

Unlike in 7th where already we had our codex, the army was even worse, and GW was not doing re-balances twice a year, there is still hope.

We have not gotten our codex yet, and it has been announced to be one of the next two. Wait till GW is done high-fiving themselves over knights and AoS 2 and then we will be seeing either ork or space wolve previews. Even if it's fuzzy marines first, two weeks after we will get orks.

No need to lose your mind over waiting another month or so for the new codex.

I think you read a lot more into what I said, than what I actually said dude...I wasn't talking about the whole situation, let alone comparing it with last edition...I was basically just referring to reading the current discussion on this page, that being: "everything's crap, in a variety of ways...take more boyz...no, none of those other cool, fun things, just more boyz...only boyz, and lots of them" - it's just a bit depressing seeing other units being mentioned, only to be met, yet again, with "yeah, but for those points, you could just take x amount of boyz, which would probably be better"...I know that is basically the situation at the moment...but it's still depressing waking up and reading an entire page of it.

...even more so, considering I've got a pair of battlewagons on my desk ready to paint right now...and I know if I were to mention them, they too would be met with "why take a battlewagon? you could just take another 30 boyz instead"

'Ave yoo 'eard of our Lawd and Savoor, da boyz?

 ZoBo wrote:
I think you read a lot more into what I said, than what I actually said dude...I wasn't talking about the whole situation, let alone comparing it with last edition...I was basically just referring to reading the current discussion on this page, that being: "everything's crap, in a variety of ways...take more boyz...no, none of those other cool, fun things, just more boyz...only boyz, and lots of them" - it's just a bit depressing seeing other units being mentioned, only to be met, yet again, with "yeah, but for those points, you could just take x amount of boyz, which would probably be better"...I know that is basically the situation at the moment...but it's still depressing waking up and reading an entire page of it.

...even more so, considering I've got a pair of battlewagons on my desk ready to paint right now...and I know if I were to mention them, they too would be met with "why take a battlewagon? you could just take another 30 boyz instead"

Well this IS tactic thread. Generally people are looking for ways to win there and not just how to throw cool models regardless of winning chances.

Alternative is death of the thread with no comments of course. Tactics for others is "pray opponent rolls tons of 1's".

tneva82 wrote:


Alternative is death of the thread with no comments of course. Tactics for others is "pray opponent rolls tons of 1's".

2s are the new 1s. 1s will be re-rolled

And yes, it is depressing. Not only orks but the game on the whole is just too shallow even compared to 7th imperfect ruleset.

 koooaei wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


Alternative is death of the thread with no comments of course. Tactics for others is "pray opponent rolls tons of 1's".

2s are the new 1s. 1s will be re-rolled

And yes, it is depressing. Not only orks but the game on the whole is just too shallow even compared to 7th imperfect ruleset.

Actually I quite like 8th, but I only came in at the very end of 7th. 7th was too much like old D&D where you had to constantly crosscheck rules and compare charts to see if you succeeded at the most basic things like hitting. My life is too busy to dedicate huge amounts of time to a single game. I am fortunate that I can and want to play mostly fluffy games against friends. If I only played competitively I would be very frustrated.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
Actually I quite like 8th, but I only came in at the very end of 7th. 7th was too much like old D&D where you had to constantly crosscheck rules and compare charts to see if you succeeded at the most basic things like hitting. My life is too busy to dedicate huge amounts of time to a single game. I am fortunate that I can and want to play mostly fluffy games against friends. If I only played competitively I would be very frustrated.

I don't know, I think it's kind of the opposite in that 7th had very fluffy* (but complicated) rules and 8th could theoretically lend itself better to tournament play.

In practice a lot of 8th's shortcomings in the fluffy narrative department can be overcome with imagination and house rules, and sometimes 7th's complicated rules to try to make the game seem more cinematic and have the narrative tell itself could actually end up in weird-feeling "unrealistic"** situations. Also, while 8th is simpler on its face and theoretically could play faster there are some things slowing it down at the moment. Some of them I'm guessing will be fixed after the release schedule slows down and things stabilize.

*I'm using "fluffy" in the sense of "lore-friendly", where as if you meant it in the sense of "casual" then I would agree with you.
**Of course 40k is an abstracted game set in an unrealistic universe, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.

Ork brothers please help! I've been considering Orks for a while, and just feel over this 2. hand offer (for about 200 euros).
It seems to be 3. edition orks, as for example the trukks are all 'flat'. They are very well painted.

4 killar kanz
1 Dread
4 bikes
4 warbuggys
5 trukks
1 looted basilisk
1 Warboss
1 Warboss mega armour
1 Shokk attackgun
1 Slaver
2 Squicks
7 Grots
8 Gorkamorka boyz
5 Cyborkz
2 Lootas
11 Stormboyz
2 Stormboy Nobz
8 Nobz
6 Burnaboyz
10 Tankbustaz
16 Shootaboyz (3 Bigshootqz)
40 Sluggaboyz ( 4 Bigshootaz)
3 Rokkitboyz
1 Bigmek med kustom force field

Is it a good deal? Would I be playing remotely competitive at 2k points? Is it worth the gamble with the upcoming Ork codex?

Would really appreciate inputs!

coffee321 wrote:

Is it a good deal? Would I be playing remotely competitive at 2k points? Is it worth the gamble with the upcoming Ork codex?

Would really appreciate inputs!

Competive? Hell no. Only ~60 boyz is about 33% or less what you would need and it has stuff like killa kans, dreads and trukks that are worthless piece of junk in even semi-competive army atm(and all those big shootas in boyz are also waste of models). Also it has stuff like looted basilisk you cannot use ATM. Maybe you could use as battlewagon with killkannon? Also it has inconvenient numbers like 7 grots...Hard to get 3 more grots to get 10 and you want generally either min squad of 10 or max 30. Something like 17 or 27 is just weird.

GOOD news however: It's not bad deal money wise. 3 killa kan, 50 boyz, 5 nobz, 10 stormboyz alone puts you at 220e. So assuming trukks and warbuggies you won't be replacing later AND new codex makes these units playable it could be very good start for an ork army for quite decent savings.

I would say if you are looking at competive army this is gamble. It could be good deal with new codex. Or it could not improve many of the units this has resulting in inefficient deal. You would be better off hunting basic boyz and KMK's and stormboyz on ebay for that 200e.

But before codex for this mix to not get curb-stomped opponent needs to tailor make list to be super weak for their faction. And some armies will be very HARD to tone down to that level(knights for example would just run over likely. You dont' have numbers to survive them and you can't even hurt them so can't kill them, can't really win objectives, can get tabled to boot and usually I would say orks are pretty hard for knights...).

So question is: Do you feel like gambling? Quoting Clint Eastwood: "‘You've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?’" (no offence meant with the word punk! I just love that scene so couldn't resist inserting the quote here)

Are we allowed to use 32mm bases on 25 mm based models? I'm putting together a painboy and a Waaagh banna and it seems silly to have them on 25mm still...

tneva82 wrote:

coffee321 wrote:

Is it a good deal? Would I be playing remotely competitive at 2k points? Is it worth the gamble with the upcoming Ork codex?

Would really appreciate inputs!

Competive? Hell no. Only ~60 boyz is about 33% or less what you would need and it has stuff like killa kans, dreads and trukks that are worthless piece of junk in even semi-competive army atm(and all those big shootas in boyz are also waste of models). Also it has stuff like looted basilisk you cannot use ATM. Maybe you could use as battlewagon with killkannon? Also it has inconvenient numbers like 7 grots...Hard to get 3 more grots to get 10 and you want generally either min squad of 10 or max 30. Something like 17 or 27 is just weird.

GOOD news however: It's not bad deal money wise. 3 killa kan, 50 boyz, 5 nobz, 10 stormboyz alone puts you at 220e. So assuming trukks and warbuggies you won't be replacing later AND new codex makes these units playable it could be very good start for an ork army for quite decent savings.

I would say if you are looking at competive army this is gamble. It could be good deal with new codex. Or it could not improve many of the units this has resulting in inefficient deal. You would be better off hunting basic boyz and KMK's and stormboyz on ebay for that 200e.

But before codex for this mix to not get curb-stomped opponent needs to tailor make list to be super weak for their faction. And some armies will be very HARD to tone down to that level(knights for example would just run over likely. You dont' have numbers to survive them and you can't even hurt them so can't kill them, can't really win objectives, can get tabled to boot and usually I would say orks are pretty hard for knights...).

So question is: Do you feel like gambling? Quoting Clint Eastwood: "‘You've got to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?’" (no offence meant with the word punk! I just love that scene so couldn't resist inserting the quote here)

Thanks for a detailed answer. The decision just got harder, but I heard about orks spamming boys, so I guess it's not much of a surprise I'm not sure how lucky I feel!

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Are we allowed to use 32mm bases on 25 mm based models? I'm putting together a painboy and a Waaagh banna and it seems silly to have them on 25mm still...

Friends and people who don't know the official size won't care.

People who know and are playing in a tournie and want to win that way will complain.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Are we allowed to use 32mm bases on 25 mm based models? I'm putting together a painboy and a Waaagh banna and it seems silly to have them on 25mm still...

The Grot Handler comes with a 32mm base in the Vedros boxes, so I take that to mean that any support character is OK using one.

Boyz before toyz is the theme for this edition again.

it just occurred to me...why didn't they just make the "Dakka Dakka Dakka" stratagem just the same as the Dakkajet's "Dakka Dakka Dakka" ability? (if it fires everything at the same target, add 1 to hit rolls)...that would've actually been quite a useful stratagem then...could make stuff like flash gitz, lootas, tankbustas, shootaboyz, etc almost viable...

 ZoBo wrote:
it just occurred to me...why didn't they just make the "Dakka Dakka Dakka" stratagem just the same as the Dakkajet's "Dakka Dakka Dakka" ability? (if it fires everything at the same target, add 1 to hit rolls)...that would've actually been quite a useful stratagem then...could make stuff like flash gitz, lootas, tankbustas, shootaboyz, etc almost viable...

I've been saying for a long time that our shooty units should come with this by default. It buffs our BS while not directly increasing our BS.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:

 ZoBo wrote:
it just occurred to me...why didn't they just make the "Dakka Dakka Dakka" stratagem just the same as the Dakkajet's "Dakka Dakka Dakka" ability? (if it fires everything at the same target, add 1 to hit rolls)...that would've actually been quite a useful stratagem then...could make stuff like flash gitz, lootas, tankbustas, shootaboyz, etc almost viable...

I've been saying for a long time that our shooty units should come with this by default. It buffs our BS while not directly increasing our BS.

Simple answer? Because it "buffs" orkz. We can't have orkz able to shoot things, it would be unfair to have space elves and Marines losing models before the orkz all die.