Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**An Actual Englishman**

PiñaColada wrote:
]While I certainly agree with most of these (especially army wide-1 to hit in a game where negative to hits stack) and that soup has no drawbacks whatsoever & flyers parking on ruins to avoid CC. However I really don't think the IK shieldbreaker missiles are that good, realistically they're not killing any somewhat decent character in one shot and I think they mostly work on putting fear into the opponent rather than pure effectiveness.

I mean, I could see that GW overlooked something they thought was a pretty basic clan tactic that playtesters figured you could combine with a stratagem to get some bonkers synergy. I don't think they would reprint a book for it but if this was like a rough PDF draft they send out to playtesters (don't know if this is actually how it works) for them to basically sign off on before starting to print the codexes then this scenario doesn't sound all that unlikely to me. As you stated, yes they have screwed up some stuff in the past, but maybe they're more careful now? The army wide -1 to hit hasn't been seen since what? Craftworlds? (Although I hope they FAQ those away or at least stacking negative modifiers)

Well since you've provided a very reasonable response I'll concede the IK shieldbreaker missile, perhaps it isn't as scary as I believe.

I really don't think the playtesters sign anything off for GW mind. I think the playtesters are the final step before GW release the book and effectively give them ideas that will go into the first FAQ for that specific codex.

On this, Reece of FLG fame stated that he couldn't wait to see what effect the Ork release would have on the Ork community. He believed we'd be very, very happy with what's coming. This implies to me that he knows exactly what's in it and is in direct opposition to the idea that any delay is because of a rewrite. As others have stated, if a rewrite had happened, I suspect it would have taken place before 8th was released or at the start of 8th releasing. There's no way GW would let it impact too much on their planned schedule. Also for what reason is the SW book delayed? Did it also have to go back for a rewrite? I don't know I'm just not buying it.

**PiñaColada**

An Actual Englishman wrote:

Well since you've provided a very reasonable response I'll concede the IK shieldbreaker missile, perhaps it isn't as scary as I believe.

I really don't think the playtesters sign anything off for GW mind. I think the playtesters are the final step before GW release the book and effectively give them ideas that will go into the first FAQ for that specific codex.

On this, Reece of FLG fame stated that he couldn't wait to see what effect the Ork release would have on the Ork community. He believed we'd be very, very happy with what's coming. This implies to me that he knows exactly what's in it and is in direct opposition to the idea that any delay is because of a rewrite. As others have stated, if a rewrite had happened, I suspect it would have taken place before 8th was released or at the start of 8th releasing. There's no way GW would let it impact too much on their planned schedule. Also for what reason is the SW book delayed? Did it also have to go back for a rewrite? I don't know I'm just not buying it.

Well, hopefully Reece knows what he's talking about then! After having thought about it for a while, I think (assuming the rumour of a delay is true) that they probably wanted to release the codex a lot earlier than this, maybe around Blood Angels or slightly thereafter, to soothe us left behind Ork players. I guess that would make more sense if they then came up with the idea that a lot of deepstriking turn 1 is bad for the big FAQ and had to rewite a lot of it to work properly.

But then again, why would Kdash be hearing about it now and not months ago? And it still wouldn't explain GWs decision to announce Orks and SW months ago and then go into radio silence. That seems like such a weird, and easily avoidable, mistake. Just say that those codexes will hit late summer/early fall and there would be mild protests but go over a lot smoother than this. I just hope that a lot of my warbike charcters will be index only options basically guaranteeing them to be gone when 9th comes around.

**geargutz**

hmm,well if reece says that we will be pleased with the ork codex then ill...assume its not that great.

reece on record isnt the best judge of orks. i like the man and his enthusiasm for orks, but its telling that he hasnt acknowledged his mistakes with orks, or hasnt showed any ork games after the one time he tried to do a dreddmob.

while i dont like to label people as shills when it comes to the warhammer community, its hard to keep that policy when reece says "wow, stompas are so amazing, sooo good"

**koooaei**

Reece made a lot of mistakes at ork unit evaluations. Stompas, burnas, trukkboyz.
So, i wouldn't be too relaxed before i actually get the book in hand. And a month after as the nerfs start rolling along as it would turn out orks would be able to not auto-loose to knights or something unacceptable like this.

**Jidmah**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:

1. I don't think GW have ever made Orks broken good.

Rolling assaults from trukks, nob bikers.

Broken good Jidmah. Unless you can point me to all those tournament wins Orks picked up using this build, that far outweighed any other wins from another faction?

Sure, because tournament results got digitalized and put online in 2008 on platforms that are still online today.

Multiple nob bikers was one of the top builds in 4th and the unit still remained competitive all through 5th.

Nob bikers were broken good until the 5th edition IG and SW codex dropped because long fangs and leaf blower could instant-death them. They were a super-fast T4(5), 4+ cover/5++/5+ FNP, ignored the first 5-7 wounds dealt to the unit and hit hard enough to wipe out most units in the game. If they still did that in 8th, they would still be good.
Afterwards, both Kan wall and battlewagon bash remained highly competitive choices that regularly placed in the top 3 of tournaments. Go search the battle-report forum for dashofpepper if you need proof.

Jidmah wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
3. Many other codexes have released with totally broken things that were not fixed prior to release.

Oh? Please do make a list.

Any army with an army-wide -1 to hit (bonus points if they can take cheap troops that gain -2 to hit).

So, eldar pathfinders are now "totally broken". You should post that on one of the eldar tactics threads, it might lighten their mood.
Also, vanilla marines are "totally broken" now. Are you trying to trollbait Marmatag and Xenomancer into this thread?
The only other army is alpha legion.
Yes, army-wide -1 to hit is BS, and everyone, including GW, knows that by now. All three codices with access to this were printed before the release of 8th edition, no codex was released with army-wide -1 to hit after the problem was identified.
So, while the traits are especially gruesome to orks, Raven Guard has basically zero showing in competitive games, Alpha Legion tends to be limited to some slanesh units that shoot twice and cultists, leaving only alaitoc as -1 to hit sub-faction with major competitive archievements.

Any army with the ability to 'forward operate' any unit.

You might have fallen to paranoia, just because everyone might be an operative of the Alpha Legion, does not mean every army has the ability to use their stratagem.
One army can do this.

3 ppm Conscripts.

Yeah, that went well. So you are asking for GW to release our codex, improve point costs by 33% on boyz, put a downside on them and then change mob rule to kill models during moral checks instead of protecting them. Is that what you want? Cool.

Agent of Vect, the most broken stratagem in the game.

Have you actually played against that stratagem? Even with a brigade on the board, they will run dry on CP by turn 2, with you still having access to a ton of your CP. Unless your army relies on some sort of stratagem-combo, Agent of Vect is nowhere as powerful as "fight again", "shoot again", "deep-strike and charge 3d6" or "deploy this unit within charge range".

Flyrant spam.

Awesome, so for the ork codex you want:
1) One OP, spammable unit
2) A game wide-rule changes that makes that unit impossible to use before turn 2

The fact that soup exists with absolutely no negatives.

Yeah, definitely something that GW has written into many codices.

Missiles that can snipe characters without line of sight and remove their invulnerable save.

Fun fact: For the points of a dominus-class knight, you can have nine koptas or three burna bommer and two blitza bommers carpet-bombing a character of your choice with zero CP investment.
Orks are "totally broken"!
Another fun fact: dominus-class knights see next to no competitive play.

Slamguinius.

I'm sure GW caught that 1 relic+3 stratagem combo before release, but thought it to a fun narrative to forge and left it in the codex.
But yes, that one is actually totally broken.

Flying models' immunity to cqc exploiting terrain.

Totally unlike eldar wave serpents sitting on impassible terrain for the last five editions. This has been part of the game since its beginning.
Also not a real problem. Shoot a hole into the unit sitting in the ruin, charge nob in there. Enjoy being safe from combat because they can't fall back while more boyz move to where the nob has caused casualties.
Oh, and orks also have flying units.

So, let's take count of all armies that actually have more than a single "totally broken" datasheet:
1) Eldar
2) CSM Alpha Legion

Spoiler:

More like "Two out of 19 codexes have released with totally broken things that were not fixed prior to release."

You are actively asking GW to gak all over balance because you want totally broken things.

Shame on you.

How's that to get you started?

I'm getting more and more disgusted by the whining of all the ork players on dakka. Maybe you should start painting your orks orange and have them count as tau. Only fish men are going to survive this deluge of tears.

There will be an ork codex soon, and yet everyone here is acting like a spoiled child that wants its new toyz now and not wait for Christmas.

And no, you are not entitled to have it now for any reason.

**geargutz**

Jidmah wrote:

And no, you are not entitled to have it now for any reason.

tldr
hey, orks weren't bad around...4th or 5th edition?you should feel ashamed to want a broken codex because reasons.

jidmah your whole idea of ork players seems to be we are whiny spoiled rich kids. complaining about getting a Ferrari instead if a Ashton martin.

not all of us played during the erra of broken ork builds and have only known neglect.

as long as we have squig dung to work with we we will rightfully complain and we will not just bend over and take it. and no amount of "you should be glad your model line exists" arguments will stop it.

also, if your soo tired of us feel free to stop reading. maybe you can make a new thread that is all about "positivity and rainbows and orks and grots playing in the sand laughing", or you can realize this is dakkadakka, that this is the internet. in real life a decent person doesn't jabber all their troubles with a toy soldiers game with strangers, but this is the land of anonymous like minded and opposed individuals, expect flame wars and negativity. welcome to the internet, have you been here long?

**Jidmah**

geargutz wrote:
Jidmah wrote:

And no, you are not entitled to have it now for any reason.

tldr
hey, orks weren't bad around...4th or 5th edition?you should feel ashamed to want a broken codex because reasons.

jidmah your whole idea of ork players seems to be we are whiny spoiled rich kids. complaining about getting a Ferrari instead if a Ashton martin.

You are literally complaining about getting a Ferrari in what's worst case October instead of now.

not all of us played during the erra of broken ork builds and have only known neglect.

English duded claimed orks never had anything OP. He is wrong, we even had weirdboyz spam this edition. There is no more to it but me hating polemics.

as long as we have squig dung to work with we we will rightfully complain and we will not just bend over and take it. and no amount of "you should be glad your model line exists" arguments will stop it.

I guess my post was too long for you and you didn't read it.

GW is making a codex, right now. If the rumor is true, they have failed to meet their deadline in order to make a better codex. Do you really think a codex relying on one overpowered gimmick will survive past the next CA?

In this edition, that gimmick will get hit with the nerf-hammer and we will be stuck with a terrible codex again.

Stop being so fething short-sighted.

**PiñaColada**

Jidmah wrote:

You are literally complaining about getting a Ferrari in what's worst case October instead of now. .

While I do agree that these forums can sometimes become a bit to whiny (and I myself am certainly partly to blame for that in some instances) I think this analogy is somewhat flawed. Many of us are worried we're getting a Yugo in October/Orktober. I would love some new models but as long as the codex itself is well thought out and has more viable builds than simply spamming 200 boys then I'll be pretty happy.

I just think GW are making it more difficult on themselves than they have to. It's like with the March big FAQ and no-one knew what sort of scope that thing would have and people came up with intricate new mechanics and balance fixes so when it finally came along a lot of people just felt sort of underwhelmed. This was also aggravated due to the fact that they were not really clear that individual erratas were also updated. Now, obviously we can argue whether that critisism is even fair but as a general rule it's really difficult to go wrong with a more open communication. I think overall GW has handled 8th edition really well and it's just a shame that we don't really know what to expect now. Is it the end of the world? No, but this an outlet for a lot of people so I don't necessarily think (mild) complaining is all that bad as it at least indicates passion for the hobby..

But to be clear, I wouldn't want our codex to be released with some broken gimmick either

**An Actual Englishman**

Jidmah, I'll respond to your wall of flame and inconsistencies when I'm next at my laptop but I seriously suggest you take 5 minutes away from this thread and possibly this board.

Your attitude on a number of responses has been disgraceful and you're rapidly losing credibility. I thought you were supposed to be the go to Orkish tactician? If you can't see the value of Agents of Vect I'm doubting you play competitive at all.

Jidmah - your response:

Spoiler:

**Kdash**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Kdash wrote:
So, i was at an event last weekend, and there was a lot of talk between some people about the Ork codex.

Essentially, from what we can gather from the hints coming from known play testers, is that the Ork codex has gone back for a re-write. I'm not sure how long ago it happened or how much the release date has changed but it sounds like they messed up MASSIVELY with it.

Essentially, it's been said that the codex was perfect for open play and narrative.

However, it was a diabolically broken rule set for matched play. And i mean EXTREMELY broken.
The main point issue (though apparently there were several) was that they were allowed to infiltrate their entire army in deployment or turn 1 (don't know which).

Which, as you can image..... .... ....... .....

I don't have any names or sources to give you, only what was being discussed in hushed voices by certain groups of players.

Sounds like bs to me.

A few things to consider -

1. I don't think GW have ever made Orks broken good.
2. I can't see the playtesters having such an impact on release schedules.
3. Many other codexes have released with totally broken things that were not fixed prior to release.
4. I could not imagine any circumstance where GW allowed an entire Ork army to infiltrate/deep strike/forward deploy turn one. It would render certain units completely useless and redundant.
5. Its not really an Orkish thing, much more GSC.

This feels to me like some hard trolling. 'Orks were strong but are preemptively nerfed lol', doesn't sound legit at all.

While i accept that it's likely never going to be officially stated one way or another, i think you are looking at future releases with a pre-8th view.

I accept that GW has never really made Orks broken before, however, that doesn't mean they haven't unintentionally done so with the 8th ed codex. This wave of codices has been different to past editions imo, and with the amount of faqs and altering being done on the sidelines it opens up a lot of potential for unintended issues to arise. As i said before, Orks are/were in a fantastic spot narratively and open play wise, however, there were big issues identified with how they supposedly work with the current matched play rules.

While i agree that i'd expect most playtester feedback gets a glance over and likely gets slated for an faq or CA adjustment, i think it generally depends on the level of response. If the vast majority of play testers come back and say "look, this is incredibly broken and needs fixing asap" then it's going to get a response. Whether it affects release schedules, we'll never really know - but, we already know they are willing to push release dates back based on feedback and matched play events. All i can say is that i'm led to believe that the level of response to testing this codex has been incredibly strong. It could all be completely ok and on time, but, it certainly wasn't the impression i was given.

I concede that other codices were released with broken units within them, but, i think this is more of an army wide issue, as opposed to something that could be countered by a CA points increase or already limited by the rule of 3. I don't know whether the "infiltrate" everything was a stratagem, clan trait or an army trait - if it is a stratagem or clan trait, then it can be fixed easily enough, if it was more of an army trait then it depends. Unfortunately we are working off limited information.

I think that is also part of the problem. Not only does it render some Ork units redundant (but lets face it there are redundant units in every codex), but it also seriously impacts other armies and their units. One example used was that pure Knight armies were essentially shut down turn 1. All we can do currently is presume that the original rules and/or testing began prior to Big FAQ 1 and that they are written in a way that allows them to get around the turn 1 deepstrike. Again, this could simply just be a Blood Axe thing as someone theorised on here - but, you also need to take into account that there is a reason everyone plays Alaitoc Craftworld. There is a reason everyone takes a Black Heart detachment etc etc. If one clan is significantly more powerful than the rest, it is the only one that is going to get used outside of "beer and pretzel" games.

If it all turns out to be completely wrong, then, so be it. But, currently it is not the feeling and impression i got from the discussions i was privy to. It is now just over 2 months since we had the WC article saying Wolves and Orks were next. With the understandable delay due to Kill Team and Titanicus, we'll hopefully start seeing some more news either way - in regards to the Wolves codex, soon.

**An Actual Englishman**

Kdash wrote:
While i accept that it's likely never going to be officially stated one way or another, i think you are looking at future releases with a pre-8th view.

I accept that GW has never really made Orks broken before, however, that doesn't mean they haven't unintentionally done so with the 8th ed codex. This wave of codices has been different to past editions imo, and with the amount of faqs and altering being done on the sidelines it opens up a lot of potential for unintended issues to arise. As i said before, Orks are/were in a fantastic spot narratively and open play wise, however, there were big issues identified with how they supposedly work with the current matched play rules.

While i agree that i'd expect most playtester feedback gets a glance over and likely gets slated for an faq or CA adjustment, i think it generally depends on the level of response. If the vast majority of play testers come back and say "look, this is incredibly broken and needs fixing asap" then it's going to get a response. Whether it affects release schedules, we'll never really know - but, we already know they are willing to push release dates back based on feedback and matched play events. All i can say is that i'm led to believe that the level of response to testing this codex has been incredibly strong. It could all be completely ok and on time, but, it certainly wasn't the impression i was given.

I concede that other codices were released with broken units within them, but, i think this is more of an army wide issue, as opposed to something that could be countered by a CA points increase or already limited by the rule of 3. I don't know whether the "infiltrate" everything was a stratagem, clan trait or an army trait - if it is a stratagem or clan trait, then it can be fixed easily enough, if it was more of an army trait then it depends. Unfortunately we are working off limited information.

I think that is also part of the problem. Not only does it render some Ork units redundant (but lets face it there are redundant units in every codex), but it also seriously impacts other armies and their units. One example used was that pure Knight armies were essentially shut down turn 1. All we can do currently is presume that the original rules and/or testing began prior to Big FAQ 1 and that they are written in a way that allows them to get around the turn 1 deepstrike. Again, this could simply just be a Blood Axe thing as someone theorised on here - but, you also need to take into account that there is a reason everyone plays Alaitoc Craftworld. There is a reason everyone takes a Black Heart detachment etc etc. If one clan is significantly more powerful than the rest, it is the only one that is going to get used outside of "beer and pretzel" games.

If it all turns out to be completely wrong, then, so be it. But, currently it is not the feeling and impression i got from the discussions i was privy to. It is now just over 2 months since we had the WC article saying Wolves and Orks were next. With the understandable delay due to Kill Team and Titanicus, we'll hopefully start seeing some more news either way - in regards to the Wolves codex, soon.

Ah listen man, I appreciate you bringing this news to the table. It might be true, it might not be, I know where I stand on the subject (for reasons previously stated) but I'm certainly not going to beef with you if you think it is true. As I see it you're just the messenger and you're just trying to give people more information. Let's be honest we're pretty hungry for information at the moment.

I just can't envisage GW making a clan trait "everyone gets deepstrike". That would obviously be carnage. I also can't envisage that there'd be a way to stack relics, stratagems etc so effectively the entire army could DS that wouldn't require a simple fix (remove said relic, make it unique to a certain clan, change the interaction with the other offending thing etc). It just doesn't make sense to me, particularly given GW's propensity to go for maximum cash at any possible opportunity, regardless of balance. I think the real reason SW and Orks have not yet released is because GW believe they'll make more money releasing something else right now.

**PiñaColada**

By the way, when firing a bubblehukka I have to declare the target before me and my opponent roll the dice for stats, right? Unlike obliterators that is.

I wanna try and use the bubblechukka more since it's the orkiest weapon ever with all it's crazy randomness but it's just so expensive.. Having the ability to choose a target after rolling for stats would at least help it a little bit.

**Jidmah**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
If you're disgusted by the Ork players in this community leave Jidmah, nobody forces you to stay. If you think the way our community has been treated (which has been VASTLY different to every other codex release, bar Space Wolves) is acceptable then more fool you.

The reason we want the codex sooner rather than later is because we're sick of taking Boyz spam, we're sick of having no fun stratagems to use, we're sick of being one dimensional and we're sick of getting spanked by our mates' armies. Frankly, the game is not fun to play with Orks as they are now. It's why people are leaving. Maybe you love Green Tide, if so good for you. I don't and I'd like to have other viable options to play. As it is we don't have any. If you think that's OK, given that our codex was announced over 2 months ago (and has no date associated with it's release, no new models have been confirmed and basically no Ork news exists at all) then that's great for you. I don't though and I'm entitled to voice my opinion however the feth I want whether that's on here or on facebook.

GW is not your friend. It's a business. You need to treat it like one.

First of all, I think an apology is due, my annoyance with the ork community has been building over a while, and I undeservedly made you the lightning rod for that pent up anger.

I still want to clarify why I'm annoyed with all those ork players, since the point was definitely misunderstood.

I believe orks deserve nothing less than an awesome codex. Phil Kelly's 4th edition codex was the sole reason for me to start Warhammer 40k. For me 8th edition's codex will have to live up to that codex, because during 4th and 5th orks were a fun, reasonably competitive all-round army with many viable builds and units. That's the very least I expect.

However, currently ork threads on dakka aren't complaining about the lack of a codex.
They are not complaining about how the index performs, about the limited choices or all the kicks in the balls we have received from GW over the course of the Kirby-era.

Currently there are four threads complaining about GW not starting their spoiler season for orks yet.
GW has announced that Orks will be one of the next two codices, and has not gone back on that. Afterwards they have released a new version of their other big game and are probably currently bridging vacation season with specialist games.
Meanwhile, we basically have the entire ork community stomping their foot on the ground and crying "but I want it NOW" like an impatient four-year old.

Until we hear otherwise, orks will be released after Space Wolves and its just a matter of time. Time limited to a maximum of two or three months.

This has zero to do with the quality of the ork codex, how orks play or with orks at all. There is absolutely no reason to act like people do, especially that facebook spammer.

**pismakron**

I am personally pretty pessimistic with respect to the Ork codex, simply because I can't figure out how to make orks both competetive and internally balanced. Killa Kans and dreads are easy enough to fix, they just need to cost less points. But how about lootas, burnas and tankbustas? Can you make them viable on foot, without making them too good in a transport? And then there is the Nobz and Manz. How can you make them viable in a balanced army without making them OP if spammed?

I am also concerned that we might get clan-rules, where one rule is objectively better than the others. Like Alaitoc.

**TheunlikelyGamer**

Meh I think it's silly that you guys care what each other think. I could care less what people complain about. I only come on here to talk about ork list ideas. I don't play tide list because I don't have all day to play 1 game. I generally take what I want regardless of how "viable" people on the internet think it is but Ilike advice for new ideas. I'm not trying to win big events. I win local events with mono build lists and recently took a biker ork list and smashed a bunch of lists in the local meta. I'd love a nice codex but it wouldn't stop me from playing Orks. I've played for years without using command points and a bunch of stratagems it doesn't bother me that I don't get any as it's like nothing has changed for me. I'm on ork and wolves player and will still be whether they had a new dex or not.

**An Actual Englishman**

Jidmah wrote:
First of all, I think an apology is due, my annoyance with the ork community has been building over a while, and I undeservedly made you the lightning rod for that pent up anger.

I still want to clarify why I'm annoyed with all those ork players, since the point was definitely misunderstood.

I believe orks deserve nothing less than an awesome codex. Phil Kelly's 4th edition codex was the sole reason for me to start Warhammer 40k. For me 8th edition's codex will have to live up to that codex, because during 4th and 5th orks were a fun, reasonably competitive all-round army with many viable builds and units. That's the very least I expect.

However, currently ork threads on dakka aren't complaining about the lack of a codex.
They are not complaining about how the index performs, about the limited choices or all the kicks in the balls we have received from GW over the course of the Kirby-era.

Currently there are four threads complaining about GW not starting their spoiler season for orks yet.
GW has announced that Orks will be one of the next two codices, and has not gone back on that. Afterwards they have released a new version of their other big game and are probably currently bridging vacation season with specialist games.
Meanwhile, we basically have the entire ork community stomping their foot on the ground and crying "but I want it NOW" like an impatient four-year old.

Until we hear otherwise, orks will be released after Space Wolves and its just a matter of time. Time limited to a maximum of two or three months.

This has zero to do with the quality of the ork codex, how orks play or with orks at all. There is absolutely no reason to act like people do, especially that facebook spammer.

Yay! We're friends again!

Yea I'm not saying that none of the complaints are misplaced and I can see that some people in the community are acting somewhat childish but I think we have a right to be annoyed. It is a poor business decision to announce a codex and then do nothing for over 2 months. Particularly when every other codex was announced then had previews a maximum of a month later. It's also a poor decision to show new GSC models when their codex has not been announced, because many Ork players assume this means we're getting nothing.

Constant negativity is annoying, but let's not pretend that GW have treated the Ork (or SW for that matter) community with any decency of late. I mean this is all with the background of Orks historically being treated like gak for many years. They have, as the phrase goes, been the architects of their own downfall as far as this is concerned.

**PiñaColada**

An Actual Englishman wrote:

Yay! We're friends again!

Yea I'm not saying that none of the complaints are misplaced and I can see that some people in the community are acting somewhat childish but I think we have a right to be annoyed. It is a poor business decision to announce a codex and then do nothing for over 2 months. Particularly when every other codex was announced then had previews a maximum of a month later. It's also a poor decision to show new GSC models when their codex has not been announced, because many Ork players assume this means we're getting nothing.

Constant negativity is annoying, but let's not pretend that GW have treated the Ork (or SW for that matter) community with any decency of late. I mean this is all with the background of Orks historically being treated like gak for many years. They have, as the phrase goes, been the architects of their own downfall as far as this is concerned.

The GSC stuff was accidentally put on a display and thus leaked before they were supposed to be announced though, weren't they? Had that not happened people might have had bigger hopes for new Ork/SW models. So I do think it's a bit of bad luck on GWs part in this particular case.

**An Actual Englishman**

PiñaColada wrote:

The GSC stuff was accidentally put on a display and thus leaked before they were supposed to be announced though, weren't they? Had that not happened people might have had bigger hopes for new Ork/SW models. So I do think it's a bit of bad luck on GWs part in this particular case.

If you believe that a model was accidentally put on display then I suppose some of that is bad luck.

I was sure GW had previewed a new hybrid model before that themselves though. The one with the street sign previewed in a community post...

**PiñaColada**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:

The GSC stuff was accidentally put on a display and thus leaked before they were supposed to be announced though, weren't they? Had that not happened people might have had bigger hopes for new Ork/SW models. So I do think it's a bit of bad luck on GWs part in this particular case.

If you believe that a model was accidentally put on display then I suppose some of that is bad luck.

I was sure GW had previewed a new hybrid model before that themselves though. The one with the street sign previewed in a community post...

I just remember GW made a video sort of mocking themselves indicating that is what happened. I'm not interested in GSC at all so I never looked into it any further than that. Maybe they just had a bit of fun and I misinterpreted the whole thing but if they did indeed screw up with the whole display thing I'm willing to cut them some slack on that one. Silly mistake but the GSC stuff is so out of place when we know that they're not the next codex and an accidental reveal would explain a lot.

**JawRippa**

Let’s be honest, GW screwed up and they do deserve backlash they are receiving. A lot of it could be avoided simply if they fed us some info, hell, even fluff snippets and army demonstrations would do a lot to calm people down.
My biggest grudges are probably a release of custodes, while a major race like orks was still waiting and Stompa vs Armigers article. So I’m expecting a codex with some thought behind it, or I’m probably switching to just collecting rather than playing.

**Marklarr**

JawRippa wrote:
Let’s be honest, GW screwed up and they do deserve backlash they are receiving. A lot of it could be avoided simply if they fed us some info, hell, even fluff snippets and army demonstrations would do a lot to calm people down.
My biggest grudges are probably a release of custodes, while a major race like orks was still waiting and Stompa vs Armigers article. So I’m expecting a codex with some thought behind it, or I’m probably switching to just collecting rather than playing.

GW screwed up what? Because as far as I know, GW said ‘SW & orks are the next release’ and I haven’t seen any other codexes released between that time, so please enlighten me.

They deserve backlash!!? Stop and think about what you are saying.............you are annoyed because a games company hasn’t given you what you want,when you want it and that they deserve stick for it. How far did the dummy get when it was thrown out the pram?

I think everyone should cut out the bollocks that’s being said over and over and over again.

Here’s something everyone can get behind. Come 18th/19th of August we’ll have some news, then all the moaners will have to find a different reason to Clog up this thread.

**An Actual Englishman**

Marklarr wrote:
Here’s something everyone can get behind. Come 18th/19th of August we’ll have some news, then all the moaners will have to find a different reason to Clog up this thread.

Maybe they won't be moaning if we had news?

Also there is no guarantee or hint that we'll get anything on 18th/19th August. It could just as likely be no news or SW news.

**Ravemastaj**

An Actual Englishman wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:

1. I don't think GW have ever made Orks broken good.

Rolling assaults from trukks, nob bikers.

Broken good Jidmah. Unless you can point me to all those tournament wins Orks picked up using this build, that far outweighed any other wins from another faction?

Jidmah wrote:
An Actual Englishman wrote:
3. Many other codexes have released with totally broken things that were not fixed prior to release.

Oh? Please do make a list.

Any army with an army-wide -1 to hit (bonus points if they can take cheap troops that gain -2 to hit).
Any army with the ability to 'forward operate' any unit.
3 ppm Conscripts.
Agent of Vect, the most broken stratagem in the game.
Flyrant spam.
The fact that soup exists with absolutely no negatives.
Missiles that can snipe characters without line of sight and remove their invulnerable save.
Slamguinius.
Flying models' immunity to cqc exploiting terrain.

How's that to get you started?

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad Spam
Cheap as chips plasma for the above
Commissars that ensured conscripts ignored all morale
50 man conscript blobs
Dakkabot Cawl (until the next round of codexes and power creep made it 'normal')

Most of what I listed was fixed after the codex dropped. If orks are the powerhogs as the last codex, I would not be mad. They SHOULD get at least one broken rule set. Gulliman KNOWS the Imperium has several broken things already.

**SemperMortis**

Marklarr wrote:
JawRippa wrote:
Let’s be honest, GW screwed up and they do deserve backlash they are receiving. A lot of it could be avoided simply if they fed us some info, hell, even fluff snippets and army demonstrations would do a lot to calm people down.
My biggest grudges are probably a release of custodes, while a major race like orks was still waiting and Stompa vs Armigers article. So I’m expecting a codex with some thought behind it, or I’m probably switching to just collecting rather than playing.

GW screwed up what? Because as far as I know, GW said ‘SW & orks are the next release’ and I haven’t seen any other codexes released between that time, so please enlighten me.

They deserve backlash!!? Stop and think about what you are saying.............you are annoyed because a games company hasn’t given you what you want,when you want it and that they deserve stick for it. How far did the dummy get when it was thrown out the pram?

I think everyone should cut out the bollocks that’s being said over and over and over again.

Here’s something everyone can get behind. Come 18th/19th of August we’ll have some news, then all the moaners will have to find a different reason to Clog up this thread.

I've said it before and I will say it again. I don't care when the Codex comes out so long as it is a well written balanced codex that lets me play several different play styles without feeling like I am auto-losing.

However, I understand the players who are upset with the time table and lack of information. GW pushed out what? 15-16 codices in the space of a year, maybe even more? And now, they are down to SW, Orkz, SoB and GSC as the only main factions without a new codex and they haven't released one since the Knights codex over a month ago? Add to that the little "THEY ARE COMING" post GW put out and it got peoples hopes up. So for you to come in and get mad at them for wanting information at the least is a bit disingenuous. GW screwed up by changing their release schedule (that is fine, they just need to own it) and then they screwed up by giving the biggest 2 remaining factions a teaser and then went dark for months afterwards. So basically to you and everyone freaking out, Stay Calm and WAAAAAGH! On.

**Jidmah**

SemperMortis is being the voice of reason of the ork community.

Everything has gone to hell.

**geargutz**

Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis is being the voice of reason of the ork community.

Everything has gone to hell.

is it me or does it seem like jidmah just ignored many other ork posters here and only sees semper as the voice of reason.

like a weird selective hearing/reading.

**koooaei**

SemperMortis wrote:

I've said it before and I will say it again. I don't care when the Codex comes out so long as it is a well written balanced codex that lets me play several different play styles without feeling like I am auto-losing.

So, technically 'never' is allready good enough. Because it's allready happened. We're allready enjoying the balanced codex that has never come out. Guess you should be happy atm.

**GreatGranpapy**

I've kind of been wondering this for a bit: how good are warbosses?

I've got this idea in my head that they're these badass, physical manifestations of destruction that can take on anything but I know of course that that isn't so on tabletop (doesn't stop me from hoping mine can 1v1 Hive Tyrants bless his soul). But still though, I'm wonder how they fit into the big picture.

**Rismonite**

GreatGranpapy wrote:
I've kind of been wondering this for a bit: how good are warbosses?

I've got this idea in my head that they're these badass, physical manifestations of destruction that can take on anything but I know of course that that isn't so on tabletop (doesn't stop me from hoping mine can 1v1 Hive Tyrants bless his soul). But still though, I'm wonder how they fit into the big picture.

Warbosses are really only as badass as the nearby infantry unit that they helped get into CC with WAAAGH! Anything else they do is a bonus.

**Marklarr**

SemperMortis wrote:
Marklarr wrote:
JawRippa wrote:
Let’s be honest, GW screwed up and they do deserve backlash they are receiving. A lot of it could be avoided simply if they fed us some info, hell, even fluff snippets and army demonstrations would do a lot to calm people down.
My biggest grudges are probably a release of custodes, while a major race like orks was still waiting and Stompa vs Armigers article. So I’m expecting a codex with some thought behind it, or I’m probably switching to just collecting rather than playing.

GW screwed up what? Because as far as I know, GW said ‘SW & orks are the next release’ and I haven’t seen any other codexes released between that time, so please enlighten me.

They deserve backlash!!? Stop and think about what you are saying.............you are annoyed because a games company hasn’t given you what you want,when you want it and that they deserve stick for it. How far did the dummy get when it was thrown out the pram?

I think everyone should cut out the bollocks that’s being said over and over and over again.

Here’s something everyone can get behind. Come 18th/19th of August we’ll have some news, then all the moaners will have to find a different reason to Clog up this thread.

I've said it before and I will say it again. I don't care when the Codex comes out so long as it is a well written balanced codex that lets me play several different play styles without feeling like I am auto-losing.

However, I understand the players who are upset with the time table and lack of information. GW pushed out what? 15-16 codices in the space of a year, maybe even more? And now, they are down to SW, Orkz, SoB and GSC as the only main factions without a new codex and they haven't released one since the Knights codex over a month ago? Add to that the little "THEY ARE COMING" post GW put out and it got peoples hopes up. So for you to come in and get mad at them for wanting information at the least is a bit disingenuous. GW screwed up by changing their release schedule (that is fine, they just need to own it) and then they screwed up by giving the biggest 2 remaining factions a teaser and then went dark for months afterwards. So basically to you and everyone freaking out, Stay Calm and WAAAAAGH! On.

‘GW pushed out what? 15-16 codices in the space of a year, maybe even more? And now, they are down to SW, Orkz, SoB and GSC as the only main factions without a new codex and they haven't released one since the Knights codex over a month ago?’ I don’t get the point you are making? Im going to guess you feel they are entitled to something because of this?

With regards to ‘they are coming’ tell me how GW has lied about this? Are they not coming? Did they give you, personally a release date, then change it? Please share if so. Again, I don’t really understand what you are getting at, I’ll put this down as entitlement issues again.

I understand people (including myself) would like a few snippets of information, to keep us ticking over until the eventual release, that wasn’t what I was specifically annoyed at, If you actually read what I said?

Also, I dont think you know what disingenuous means.

Show me GW release schedule please?
Maybe they have rearranged release dates, from what they originally planned (internally to the business) again, they don’t need to own anything because they haven’t given dates. But I’ll go out on a limb and say the 18th\19th this month we will have information for something 40k related.