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mrtomski wrote:

Nora wrote:
Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?

Very good question. This kulture key word is annoying as hell.

At the moment I was still banking on playing a warboss on bike, not really sold on the trike, since I'm unlikely to run walkers so advance and charge for bikers will be enough for me.

THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING... if they would just give the wartrike the option to take a klaw... i just wanna give the guy the relic klaw... but i cant because every new model has to have damn unique equipment... this is so dumb. DAMN GW...

pismakron wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot.

In the codex every tenth boy gets to take Tankbusta bombs for 0 points. That suddenly makes boyz semi-decent against heavy armor if you can get them close.

While getting the bomb that has been in the box for so long is awesome, d3 shots at 6" hitting on 5+ is far from decent, especially since a unit of 20 can still throw just one grenade at a time.
If I can get boyz close, I can get nobz close as well. 15 big choppa attacks are probably going to do more than that tankbusta bomb.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
Tankbustas loosing a full reroll? Sad day indeed. Well, more points for the rest of the list. They were on the edge allready.

Oh well. I still have 3 ww2 gunz that used to be kmk. They're gona be smashas now. I guess. Too bad they have no kultur but ddd is confirmed, right?

DDD explicitly mentions how bubblechukkas should be handled, so mek guns will definitely be getting that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Shrapnelbait wrote:
OK, what's the dual choppa option?

You can now switch your slugga for another choppa, which can make a nob have two choppas and thus 5 attacks per nob.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
tankbustas going RR hits to RR 1s is a big nerf and let down

Wait what? When and where was this announced?

Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.

Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.

Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.

tilds wrote:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
tankbustas going RR hits to RR 1s is a big nerf and let down

Wait what? When and where was this announced?

It wasn't. It was misspoken one time in one review video, and in every other review video and batrep theyve still had the existing reroll everything rule, and people are still whining about it.

I was thinking about something else today: while Gretchin units do not get the benefit of a Klan Kultur special rule, they are (confirmed from videos) still <clan> units.

To me, this means we're likely to be seeing one klan in particular a lot more than you otherwise would: Freebootas.

Freebootas have a crap warlord trait, a crap relic, and a crappity crap crap stratagem, but their trait (+1BS if another Freebootas unit within 24" killed something this phase) is pretty good, IF you can trigger it. And what better unit to trigger it with than a unit that's going to be not benefiting from any other stratagem anyway and which shares a detachment slot with Flash Gitz?

Assuming you're already going to be taking a few mek gunz (why wouldn't you) the only cost to making a unit of Flash Gitz you have Freebootas is a single HQ choice. So take Badrukk or a SAG mek and you're ready to roll. If you want more CPs, another SAG mek and 30 gretchin is only 170 points (that does limit you to only 3 heavy slots though).

Shokkjump Dragstas are also wonderful slotted into a freeboota detachment, because theyre a small enough unit that they don't actually really want to shoot twice (IMO, the only reason you'd ever take Bad Moons over Freebootas) and besides, if you boost a SJD up to 2+ bs with the freeboota kultur, the "More Dakka" stratagem actually gives you MORE HITS than if he was a bad moon and you gave him shoot twice. Very slightly more, but the difference is there. More Dakka makes DDD trigger on a 5+, and the SJD under Freeboota kultur effect is adding 3 to all its hit rolls..meaning 2s are 5+.

Seems like orks have 3 different shooty options, and I don't think one is strictly always the best:

-Bad Moonz if you like big huge units like mobbed up shoota boyz and max loota squads, built around blasting people with the shoot twice strat.

-Deffskulls if you prefer MSU shooting with koptas and min squads

-Freebootas if you like Mek Gunz and Flash Gits.

gungo wrote:
If you don’t want to repaint everything they sell colored base rings you clip onto the bases that allow you to not only differentiate clans but units. So like all orks w blue bases are deathskull and all red ones are evil suns and all yellow are bad moons. It gets a bit trickier with vehicles but odds are all vehicles are part of one detachment anyway. The rings fit 24 or 32mm bases.

Interesting idea. Although I might go back to 2nd Edition and adding swappable back-banners on the Nobz and vehicles.

My two cents,

CB

Can index ork units benefit from the clan cultures as they'd have the <clan> keyword? I'm still thinking about deathskull rokkit buggies...

And the_scotsman - doesn't DDD only trigger on unmodified 6+ (or 5+ with more dakka) so those buffs to the shokjump dragsta wouldn't apply to it?

the_scotsman wrote:
Freebootas have a crap warlord trait, a crap relic, and a crappity crap crap stratagem, but their trait (+1BS if another Freebootas unit within 24" killed something this phase) is pretty good, IF you can trigger it. And what better unit to trigger it with than a unit that's going to be not benefiting from any other stratagem anyway and which shares a detachment slot with Flash Gitz?

It is not +1BS, but +1 to hit rolls, so it works in close combat aswell. Orks hitting on 2+... Yes please!

 DoomMouse wrote:
Can index ork units benefit from the clan cultures as they'd have the <clan> keyword? I'm still thinking about deathskull rokkit buggies...

And the_scotsman - doesn't DDD only trigger on unmodified 6+ (or 5+ with more dakka) so those buffs to the shokjump dragsta wouldn't apply to it?

DDD only triggers on an unmodified 6.

More Dakka makes DDD trigger on a 5+ - every reading I've seen hasn't said anything about "unmodified."

 Weazel wrote:
Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.

Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.

Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.

Hah try tripple that and imagine how i feel. Well some are salvageable with repaint but still

tilds wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
Freebootas have a crap warlord trait, a crap relic, and a crappity crap crap stratagem, but their trait (+1BS if another Freebootas unit within 24" killed something this phase) is pretty good, IF you can trigger it. And what better unit to trigger it with than a unit that's going to be not benefiting from any other stratagem anyway and which shares a detachment slot with Flash Gitz?

It is not +1BS, but +1 to hit rolls, so it works in close combat aswell. Orks hitting on 2+... Yes please!

yes, but the buff only lasts for the phase. So you have to kill something in the fight phase before you get to be 2+ to hit. Since I've got other good melee traits I'm good on trying to do melee with flash gitz.

Does anyone by chance know the number of wing missiles that the megatrakk scrapjet has? Are they one use only?

Moar dakka dakka only goes off on an unmodified roll of 5 or 6.

https://youtu.be/qSYaAwhNhO4?t=4747

See video. There isn't much question about what anything does anymore, you can read most of the data sheets in the video, and he goes over each one, one at a time.

RedNoak wrote:

mrtomski wrote:

Nora wrote:
Hi
One question regarding the old units that is not included in the codex, like the Warboss on bike; will there be a faq that gives this unit the new "Culture" keyword? How has it been for similar units in other codex’s?

Very good question. This kulture key word is annoying as hell.

At the moment I was still banking on playing a warboss on bike, not really sold on the trike, since I'm unlikely to run walkers so advance and charge for bikers will be enough for me.

THIS IS SO FRUSTRATING... if they would just give the wartrike the option to take a klaw... i just wanna give the guy the relic klaw... but i cant because every new model has to have damn unique equipment... this is so dumb. DAMN GW...

But you can give him DA SUPA CYBORK!!!!

For an AMAZING 5 + feel no pain !!!!!!!

https://www.facebook.com/MenatWAAGH/videos/347311949353006/[url]

3 hour codex review!

My group and I did a video of us talking about the new speed freak box and codex. We went into a lot of detail on codex and what are some of the important things to know for when the codex comes out.

PiñaColada wrote:
Pretty sure the tankbusta reroll 1's is incorrect. Strikingscorpion said it in his video but I think he misspoke. No-one else has mentioned it as far as I know.

Which just goes to show that no reviewer knows or cares about orks. Any ork player would be damn sure to check that.

 Jidmah wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
I have to be honest, I'm seriously considering ditching boys in favor of nobs, meganobs, tankbustas, etc in transports.

With death skulls trait, they all have objective secured.

Even HQs would have objective secured. Aside from one morale blob, I'm tempted to ditch boys entirely and just use grots instead. Nobs and meganobs scale better. For the same cost as ten boys (bonebreaka or trukk), you can get 5 nobs or 2 meganobs with klaws. They'd also have objective secured.

The nobs could be paired with ammo runts and kitted as needed.

I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot. The only thing that could potentially make sense is bringing a regular battlewagon with two units of 10 inside to mob up with other units that have jumped, tellyported were being sneaky bloodaxes. Then again, you could just be transporting two units of nobz and mob those up. Especially the dual choppa option really closes the gap between boyz and nobz - 50 S5 attacks compare pretty well to 80 S4 attacks (unless Goff).

Realistically, what's the chance of making it into combat with green tide on a 20 man mob?

Overwatch has a pretty good chance of clipping off a single model to drop them down to 3 attacks. Like from a combat squad of scouts.

That would reduce you to 60 S4 attacks on sluggas.

Hence why I find them unappealing to say the least. Boys are a logistical pain in the

Nobs are happy with any unit size, and at the new price you're essentially trading a 4+ armor save compared to increased damage output under ideal conditions. Once they lose green tide, nobs are just better short of multiple wound damage (hello ammo runt MSUs).

With death skulls, they have obsec. Seriously, why not if you're going to be using transports. And the bonebreaka makes me want to do that. With a 12 transport capacity, and the price changes, boys aren't making a good case for being the occupants.

So I created a 2k list to try and tackle nids. My opponent likes running bigger monster lists but does have a horde or 2 thrown in occasionally and he groups everything close for the -1 to hit from venomthropes.

I was thinking along these lines but The math could still be off to some degree

Deathskull Battalion

HQ:
Big mek SAG:
Big Mek SAG

Troops:
gretchen x 10
gretchen x 10
gretchen x 10


Goff Battalion

HQ:
- warboss
attack squig
Headwoppas
Big killa boss WT

-Weirdboy

Troops:
Boys x 12
nob
PK

Boys x 12
nob
PK

Boys x 30
nob
PK

Elites
Painboy
killsaw

Evil Sunz Spearhead

HQ:
Wartrike

Fast attack:
Warbikers x 3
Nob
PK

Heavy Support
Bonecrusha

Bonecrusha

Killa kans x 3/4

mek gunz x 4

Morkanaut

haven't been able to get the prices exactly right yet and still waiting to hear whether or not various kultur troops can fit in transports or not from other kulturs. Ill rearrange as necessary. But ultimately im looking to use the deff rollas to hit large monsters and bring them down. The morkanaut protects the units with KFF while the troops inside shoot away. I have the SAG meks to shoot and use rerolls, dont really need the WT though.

kans i was thinking of placing in the tellyporta or maybe one of the Bonecrushas or both.

I didn't list all the equipment on the vehicles either because i would like put some type of shooting onto them.

let me know what you think, this list would be tailor fit to a 2k game as more info gets confirmed. But it has a 14CP pool to use for various units. 2-4 on tellyporta, maybe 1 for an extra relic. skarboys/ardboys and the remaining throughout the list.

the_scotsman wrote:
yes, but the buff only lasts for the phase. So you have to kill something in the fight phase before you get to be 2+ to hit. Since I've got other good melee traits I'm good on trying to do melee with flash gitz.

What is the Freebooterz stratagem as it may be so crap I seem to have missed it?
Not sure why the Warlord trait is crap. Rerolling 1s in combat might not be amazing - but its not the worst thing in the world if you can charge a few things in together. The relic is a bit more questionable but even then it might be situationally useful. Morale is a bit of an odd one since its usually not a problem unless almost everyone's dead.

+1 to hit starts to make shooting options quite efficient - as while shooting twice might offset things, a 50% increase in output beats 16%. And you get a 25% melee boost potential too.

I think its going to come down to army. Obviously doesn't help versus Knights/heavily Knight leaning soups. Most other armies though are various shades of MSU. There are usually going to be some units you can bully.

 Weazel wrote:
Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.

Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.

Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.

After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.

Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.

pismakron wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

I came to the same conclusion when shoving around models in my drafts. A mechanized list has very little use for boyz since units of 12/20 don't do a lot.

In the codex every tenth boy gets to take Tankbusta bombs for 0 points. That suddenly makes boyz semi-decent against heavy armor if you can get them close.

Hitting on 5s with 6" range? Can you even use them within 1" any more?

Its also a grenade, not an assault weapon. And you can only throw one per unit. And it can't be used in combat.

So an MSU, IF and only if it gets within 6" during the movement phase, without an advance move, but not within 1", you may throw a single D3 tankbusta bomb hitting on 5s, for about a 2/3 chance on average of a single S8 Ap-2 hit. Wowwww.

The advantage of the tankbusta bombs has been severely overstated, I feel like by people who haven't play tested or seriously thought about their use. There's a reason both tankbusta bombs and stikkbombs are free.

Consider, instead of using the tankbusta bombs , that you move your full movement characteristic, advance to the full distance allowed by the die roll, then use Waaagh to assault. Profit.

I'd like to see a batrep where a tankbusta bomb actually gets used

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.

Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.

Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.

After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.

Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.

Agreed on this.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.

Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.

Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.

After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.

Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.

Would be nice to have once for a while middlepack codex rather than bottom tier even if you are willing to pay hundreds to rebuild army to what gw wants you to buy next.

 Billagio wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.

Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.

Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.

After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.

Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.

Agreed on this.

End of the day I tend to agree. Green tide is cool on paper but an engaging and fun playing experience it is not. Setting up hundreds of guys gets old fast. I'm just not in a life situation where I have a ton of time to assemble and paint a bunch of new models so I'm just slightly irritated.

haven't been able to get the prices exactly right yet and still waiting to hear whether or not various kultur troops can fit in transports or not from other kulturs. Ill rearrange as necessary. But ultimately im looking to use the deff rollas to hit large monsters and bring them down. The morkanaut protects the units with KFF while the troops inside shoot away. I have the SAG meks to shoot and use rerolls, dont really need the WT though.

kans i was thinking of placing in the tellyporta or maybe one of the Bonecrushas or both.

I didn't list all the equipment on the vehicles either because i would like put some type of shooting onto them.

let me know what you think, this list would be tailor fit to a 2k game as more info gets confirmed. But it has a 14CP pool to use for various units. 2-4 on tellyporta, maybe 1 for an extra relic. skarboys/ardboys and the remaining throughout the list.

Kans cant be in the tellyporta because they are grots and cant use strats on grots unless specifically stated


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Pretty sure the tankbusta reroll 1's is incorrect. Strikingscorpion said it in his video but I think he misspoke. No-one else has mentioned it as far as I know.

Which just goes to show that no reviewer knows or cares about orks. Any ork player would be damn sure to check that.

Ok I had seen this a few times and figured it was true. If thats the case then tankbustas with RR all hits and DDD are REALLY good. Because with RR all failed hits.. even those newly generated rokkits get to RR. wow.

 JimOnMars wrote:

PiñaColada wrote:
Pretty sure the tankbusta reroll 1's is incorrect. Strikingscorpion said it in his video but I think he misspoke. No-one else has mentioned it as far as I know.

Which just goes to show that no reviewer knows or cares about orks. Any ork player would be damn sure to check that.

I don't understand your point. I'm saying I don't think they changed, why would a reviewer call out a change that never happened? Just looking at the war of sigmar review they state that tankbustas reroll misses against vehicles. The whole reroll 1's was SS82 just accidentally saying the wrong thing, he even said that they're rerolling misses later in that review

The idea of Nobz versus boyz is an interesting one. Comparing the units directly to each other is interesting.

Unit size

Nobz: Pros
Smaller foot print makes it easier to hide, get into cover, LOS block, slip through cracks and get everyone to attack. Less vulnerable to morale

Cons: Far less board control. Worse ability to tie things up.

Ork Boy pros
Lots of board control. Great ability to tie things up. Great for objective controlling.

Cons: Vulnerable to morale without other big mobs or support.. Easy to tie up due to size. Hard to claim cover.

Combat killyness:
Each nob base with dual choppas has five attacks at s5 for 14 points. Each boy (choppa slugga) had a crappy shooting attack and 3 attacks at s4. For the points you can get two boyz for two crappy slugga shots you may never use and 6 s4 attacks. 6S4 versus 5S5 is largely enemy dependent, but I'd probably take the S5. For more points you can upgrade the nobz with big choppas to make them actually scary with S7 Ap-1 2dmg attacks or take an even cheaper route and trade the 1 attack for -2 ap on a powa stabba.

Durability:
Each nob has a 4+ save and two wounds giving them a literal half decent chance to save a wound where as boyz really get the shaft here. However as any Primaris player will never shut up about (myself included) there are a lot of 2d or d3 damage out there which really hurts the value of the nobz, but does not bother the boyz at all. Conversely the boyz lose effectiveness for each wound they take where as the nobz only start to care after every two and can save some of them.

Nobz also require a transport or to be deep struck to claim value due to their point cost. Boyz do not. Boyz fill up troop slots where Nobz do not meaning boyz will lend themselves to CP better.

I think it's a very interesting question as to which you might want to go heavy on. Traditionally it's easily been boyz, but with their price increase really being felt (driving up my lists by 100+ points) Nobz might find a way to sneak in as the primary force inside transports like battlewagons and trukks.

On the topic of tankbustas, did anyone noticed that with the more stikk bomb strat you can have a unit of 10 tanks bustas throw 10 tankbusta bombs. 10d3 shots that get dakka dakka dakka on?

 Weazel wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 Kap'n Krump wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Kinda disappointed with many of the changes. I have nearly 3000 points of Orks and most of the stuff I own is nerfed one way or the other and seems that everything I don't already own have received some buffs. So I'm looking at about 200€ to dish out to make a decent list. Not really sure if it's worth the bother really, already spent a small fortune building my army.

Guess I'll just try out the stuff that I have and if it's hot garbage it's probably time to rage quit.

Life tip: Doom & Gloom is better than optimism, saves you from a lot of disappointment.

After thinking about it a bit, I feel this is codex is probably a well-written one, in that our best stuff got worse, and our worst stuff got better. Things got more evened out and balanced, and that's probably what a well-written codex is supposed to do.

Now, deep down, I know we were all hoping for a codex along the lines of DE or IG where everything got cheaper AND better, but in truth, that's not a good way to write a codex.

Agreed on this.

End of the day I tend to agree. Green tide is cool on paper but an engaging and fun playing experience it is not. Setting up hundreds of guys gets old fast. I'm just not in a life situation where I have a ton of time to assemble and paint a bunch of new models so I'm just slightly irritated.

Agreed, it wasnt fun, but I dont think it was broken enough that it needed to be nerfed. That being said its not that big of a nerf and is still playable. We all wish boyz stayed 7 points, but I think in CA they would have gone up in points anyway as im expecting a lot of cheap infantry to for other armies (hopefully)

Hadn't thought about it that way before. Going from 6pts to 7pts makes a 200pt difference to a big green tide at 2K.

I know the maths is obvious, but thinking about what you could get for that 200pts really hammers home how strong the nerf is despite all that the boyz gained from this codex