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2017/06/10 05:34:19
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Grimskul wrote: Are PK's worth it compared to Big Choppas in normal boyz squads? I think with a WAAAGH! banner buff they'd be more reliable since it would offset the -1 to hit but in the instances where they aren't buffed, would you suggest just going for Big Choppas instead?
It comes down to alot of things, points, enemy, role etc. but as a direct comparison vs T7 3+ vehicles (like rhino/razorback/predator/dread)
PK (3 attacks, str10) does .83 unsaved hits then D3 wounds
BC (3 attacks, Str 7) does .50 unsaved hits then 2 wounds
Choppa (4 attacks, Str 5) does .30 unsaved hits then 1 wound
Against T8 3+ vehicles (like vindicator/hunter/leman russ/baneblades) the BC gets a fair bit worse, no change to the others
PK (3 attacks, str10) does .83 unsaved hits then D3 wounds
BC (3 attacks, Str 7) does .33 unsaved hits then 2 wounds (now wounding on 5+)
Choppa (4 attacks, Str 5) does .30 unsaved hits then 1 wound
Just out of interest this is what 9 boyz with choppers do
Vs T7 3+ does 2 unsaved wounds
Vs T8 3+ does 1 unsaved wound
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/10 05:41:28
2017/06/10 14:05:49
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
I think the Viability of PK's depend on how long you expect the model to live to make use of it. Because we can selectively allocate wounds, the PK / BC will always be the last to die in a squad of boyz / Stormboyz/ Kommandos.
I think stormboyz and kommandos are frequently going to die 1st, so I'm leaning big choppa there, but for boyz I'm still leaning PK. For units of Nobz, I think Mixed wargear for the win. YMMV.
2017/06/10 14:53:47
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
I'd go with p.klaw or killsaw on characters like warbosses, big meks, painboyz and the nobz that lead boyz and stormboyz units. Big choppa for units of nobz, maybe for nobz that lead a blob of footslogging boyz, especially shotaboyz. Warbikers' leading nob with p.klaw or big choppa, it depends on how you want to use the bikers. A warboss with big choppa is only 68 points and still quite deadly, it may be useful if you need a cheap HQ tax.
2017/06/10 18:15:25
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Blackie wrote: I'd go with p.klaw or killsaw on characters like warbosses, big meks, painboyz and the nobz that lead boyz and stormboyz units. Big choppa for units of nobz, maybe for nobz that lead a blob of footslogging boyz, especially shotaboyz. Warbikers' leading nob with p.klaw or big choppa, it depends on how you want to use the bikers. A warboss with big choppa is only 68 points and still quite deadly, it may be useful if you need a cheap HQ tax.
I take my warboss with a Pk pretty much every time the 2+ to hit offsets the -1 to hit a bit, the warlord trait of +1 atk only makes it better, and I'm pretty much taking a waaagh banner nob w any boy blob list so I'm back to a 2+ And str12 pretty much wrecks toughness 6 and belows face.
For the points of the Pk the warboss is the only one outside some fringe character like a tankbusta nob who can make the most use of a Pk. He has the most atks, the most str, the best to hit, and one of the toughest characters. Outside his waaagh advance calling he isn't there for anything else but to be a beatstick and occasionally break some heads. So might as well make him the beatstick character he needs to be.
What warlord trait is everyone else taking?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/10 20:25:52
2017/06/10 21:48:56
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Sledgio wrote: Has anyone got the statistics of nobs with Big Choppas versus Power Stabbas? Wondering what to arm mine with - shock unit coming out of a Morkanaut.
I did some math on that:
Spoiler:
Basically, looks to me like Big Choppas FTW.
Did you calculate the 6+ armor save stuff gets from pks? Cause it's wrong that klaws do the exact same damage as saws.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Grimskul wrote: Are PK's worth it compared to Big Choppas in normal boyz squads? I think with a WAAAGH! banner buff they'd be more reliable since it would offset the -1 to hit but in the instances where they aren't buffed, would you suggest just going for Big Choppas instead?
I'd get klaws for nobz in large boy squads and stabbas + bigchoppas for nob squads. Saws over klaws whenever you get an option.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/10 22:18:23
2017/06/11 00:33:54
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
I played my first game. Hot damn are lootas are great. That two damage is a killer against vehicles! I got a little lucky with my very first turn of my first game. I used a command point to turn the number of shots of a squad of 15 loot as from one each to three. That one roll changed 15 shots into 45! I ended up taking out a predator in one volley. BC felt underwhelming but I think I had them on all the wrong characters so I will reserve judgement. Boss should have them pk, as should the nobs in boys squads. But as others have said, the BC looks like it will
Shine as a majority loadout in a non squad and in a unit of koandoa where you can pick your target more precisely.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 00:34:28
2017/06/11 03:18:59
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Just finished up a couple of games- pretty gross defeats against my friend's tau. I'll try and put some details together later, but an immediate lesson learned for list building: minimize your deployment.
In 8th, most of the missions have the first player to finish deploying also go first. In this edition of definitely T2 (sometimes even T1!) charges, this is critical. So stick your HQs in transports and have them hop out first turn, forgo a few MSUs, run kommandos, get that first turn!
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2017/06/11 06:02:46
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
While our Melee abilities seem to have improved markedly, im still pretty raw about our shooting being really bad. I enjoy being able to make use of both and it seems were being more forced into a (though glorious)
melee only meta. Not having blasts hurt us i think and im not sure the number of shots they give our weapons now is sufficient. At least when you scattered before you could hit more than 1 unit or get lucky and have it land on
another target all together, now its just hit or miss with blasts (which were bad at). I dont think its a HUGE nerf but i doubt our shooting phases aside from some lucky rolling will be anything other than unreliable.
I am still excited for the edition as a whole but im having trouble finding my new zen with the army (havent played, i am offshore working), in 7th i was able to find a good balance between shooting and melee but i think it will be tougher to do so now.
CANT WAIT FOR RELICS! now if there's a relic that gives +1 to hit rolls for shooting that you could put on a big mek or somthing and then make your shootin squads as buffable as your melee squads that would be so cool.
Imagine lootas hitting on 4's with CP shot# rerolls. That would be one killy Unit.
2017/06/11 11:33:19
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
DaisyWondercow wrote: Just finished up a couple of games- pretty gross defeats against my friend's tau. I'll try and put some details together later, but an immediate lesson learned for list building: minimize your deployment.
In 8th, most of the missions have the first player to finish deploying also go first. In this edition of definitely T2 (sometimes even T1!) charges, this is critical. So stick your HQs in transports and have them hop out first turn, forgo a few MSUs, run kommandos, get that first turn!
I agree, we finally have resilient transports and we can strike first even with pks/killsaws, forget about footslogging hordes, their immunity to morale tests is not worth it, we already have characters to buff morale. Stormboyz & zagstruk may also be among our best options.
2017/06/11 13:14:50
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
There's nothing wrong with a blob of 30 boyz when you are also willing to spend points on a wierdboy. You still need troops for those sweet command points. I actually prefer shootaboyz. Their shooting ain't amazing - a blob of 30 only kills around 1-2 marines in cover - that's pathetic - but they can at least try to shoot at something before betting for this 9' charge. Albeit re-rollable, it's still around 50/50. If they make it to combad - good for them. Even 2 attacks are enough for many targets. If they're charging something tougher, than this extra choppa attack won't help anywayz.
2017/06/11 13:35:12
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Sledgio wrote: Has anyone got the statistics of nobs with Big Choppas versus Power Stabbas? Wondering what to arm mine with - shock unit coming out of a Morkanaut.
I did some math on that:
Spoiler:
Basically, looks to me like Big Choppas FTW.
Did you calculate the 6+ armor save stuff gets from pks? Cause it's wrong that klaws do the exact same damage as saws.
Yep. You can see the difference in the "Saves" category. the issue is many things have an invul that kicks in. Rowboat Girlyman takes exactly the same from PK and Killsaw on average because of invul.
2017/06/11 14:11:52
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
What do we reckon to Killa Kanz now? I love the models and am going to take them anyway, but on initial inspection, I'm not sure they're that good –particularly when you compare them to buggies/trakks/koptas, which seem to do a similar thing, but with greater speed/manoeuvrability.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 14:14:45
2017/06/11 14:30:14
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
koooaei wrote: There's nothing wrong with a blob of 30 boyz when you are also willing to spend points on a wierdboy. You still need troops for those sweet command points. I actually prefer shootaboyz. Their shooting ain't amazing - a blob of 30 only kills around 1-2 marines in cover - that's pathetic - but they can at least try to shoot at something before betting for this 9' charge. Albeit re-rollable, it's still around 50/50. If they make it to combad - good for them. Even 2 attacks are enough for many targets. If they're charging something tougher, than this extra choppa attack won't help anywayz.
One mob may be useful, an horde of footslogging boyz is not the way to go, even in this edition, luckily. About combat their 2 attacks are enough IF you have the mob intact, but after a few casualties having a third attack instead of a second shot that unlikely hits is certainly more helpful. Weirboyz look nice, but honestly I prefer warbosses and big meks as HQs.
2017/06/11 14:34:13
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Dojo wrote: While our Melee abilities seem to have improved markedly, im still pretty raw about our shooting being really bad. I enjoy being able to make use of both and it seems were being more forced into a (though glorious)
melee only meta. Not having blasts hurt us i think and im not sure the number of shots they give our weapons now is sufficient. At least when you scattered before you could hit more than 1 unit or get lucky and have it land on
another target all together, now its just hit or miss with blasts (which were bad at). I dont think its a HUGE nerf but i doubt our shooting phases aside from some lucky rolling will be anything other than unreliable.
I am still excited for the edition as a whole but im having trouble finding my new zen with the army (havent played, i am offshore working), in 7th i was able to find a good balance between shooting and melee but i think it will be tougher to do so now.
I think this change was natural and maybe not fully intended to hit orks as hard as it did..
The changes to shooting mostly toned down high-volume mid-strength shooting and blasts of all kinds plus it improved armor across the board. Since ork shooting was all about high volume, blasts and no AP, our shooting suffered a lot from the new rules.
From what I read in battle reports lootaz and KMK still work fine (though both have an AP value), I'm not sure about burnaz, tank bustaz or kombi-skorcha nobz as I have yet to see someone use them.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2017/06/11 14:39:12
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
2017/06/11 14:39:25
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
I played a game yesterday. Maybe a poor example due to my opponents bad luck, and I kinda felt bad about the ammo runts taking hits for flash gitz. Just a little though
Surprisingly dangerous in large numbers is not really a big deal. Especially in close combat. It makes a difference, but their already terrible attacks and low str is the real problem. But they are grots... so I didn't expect much. They did their job and acctually lived.
Badrukk is a machine that manufactures death at 24 inches. Definitely take all 3 ammo runtz and always shoot the higher str shots. It is a real bargain for 96 points. Even without flash gitz he would be worth his points.
Flash gitz did well even though I forgot to roll a bunch of their attacks one turn and completely forgot flashiest gitz.
The two planes in theory should have done better than I rolled with them.
Mek Gunz are great. 6 wounds will keep them going for a while unless opponent gets lucky with a high D shot. Also the fact that they are not all engaged when something like 1 dread makes it to them is great. Just have survivors fall back and then shoot at it with other gunz. Keep them bubble wrapped with a herd of gretchin to avoid other fast units getting to them early.
Gorkanaut did well obviously.
KFF is a must for first couple rounds, then some things move out of range. Painboy is meh... he does have a klaw though so is a little bit of punch for protecting flash gits without good melee weapons. It just never came to that. My opponent failed two charges on them and the over watch was vicious both times.
2017/06/11 15:15:29
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
I think I'm going to "commission" my father to make movement trays for my green tide. 30 slots in each 4 rows of 7 with two in the back. That way everyone is in 9" range of the KFF and it doesn't take forever to move the horde. Still might drop in a pain boy in between two blobs. It sucks it's only a 6, but I used to have to pay for two..where now it's only one. Worth it to try to get in in combat?? I would worry about him getting targeted but that killsaw is brutal. Maybe I'll charge him in if there is a character I can target directly.
2017/06/11 15:36:33
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Yeah, I'm deffo planning movement trays now we don't need to space our guys out any more. Talking of which, it seems like full-size mobs of Shoota boyz are more viable as a result, since you're less likely to end up with part of the mob out of range due to how spaced-out the mob is.
Also, just looked at the profile for the kustom mega blasta. Why on earth would you ever take one of these? Everything that has the option of taking one can take a rokkit launcha instead and the rokkit's loads better – 1 worse AP, but guaranteed 3 damage and it won't blow you up.
2017/06/11 16:23:58
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
I played my 1st two games. Both happened to be VS CSM lists that had Bezerkers In rhinos backed up by Spider Legged artillery (Defilers in 1 game, Soulgrinders in the other) People are gaga over Khorne Bezerkers for some reason. I don't understand it. They are definitely much improved this edition thanks to assault transports, and swinging twice, but I'm still pretty iffy on them as a viable choice, and am completely befuddled why people are so committed to making them work.
Anyways here is the 1st batrep.
Game 1
Spoiler:
We were playing 110 PL or 2,000 points.
My list
Ork Batallion (63, 1069) <- +3 Command Points Warboss (Attack Squig, Power Klaw, Kustom Shoota) *Warlord
Weirdboy (Da Jump)
Deff Dread (3 Dread Claw, Skorcha) + Deff Dread (3 Dread Claw, Skorcha) <- Drop
6 Killa Kans (5 Rokkits, 1 Skorcha) <- Drop
3 Killa Kans (3 Kustom Mega Blastas) <- Drop
One thing you can see about that list is I was counting drops. I got it down to 7 drops. That gave me an easy 1st turn. The downside of that is that my opponents basically could counter deploy me, because they put their 1st couple drops in reserves (termie char, jump char). They ended up deploying their 3 rhinos full of bezerkers our of LOW from my guns, and the 2 Defilers were too far out of range for tankbustas.
Deployment was the Pointed Hammer and Anvil. Mission was the new crusade (4 objectives).
I deployed my unit of 30 boyz at the tip of the spear clumped up as tight as I could. I put the Warboss, and Da Jump wierboy with them. Killa Kans right behind, pushed right up next to them as tight as possible. The Wagon was to one side, trukk with boyz to the other. Deff Dreads beside the Wagon, and the Tankbustas (my last drop) beside them in a position where they can get shots on the heldrake on turn 1.
Turn 1, I advanced literally everything. This was a little dumb of me, because when I used "Da Jump" on the unit of 30 boyz I had to conga line them back to the warboss. I Jumped them to 9" away from all 3 rhinos. My thinking was I could basically establish early board control and pin them in their backfield. My tankbusta trukk advanced, so they were only able to do 1 HP to the Heldrake (big shoota). My big squad of boyz made the charge, tied up all 3 rhinos (pile in picked up a Defiler which was awesome.). I put about 10 boyz into 1 rhino, the PK and 5 into another, and just 2 into the 3rd. Rhinos are freaking tough. I took 3/6/1 hull points off them respectively. Bummer. No 1st blood.
My opponent's turn he moved up the heldrake to assault my tankbusta trukk. He had 2 units of bikers 1 had meltas, the other flamers, they moved up towards my wagon. 2 of the rhinos disengaged, and dumped out their bezerkers. Shooting was disappointing to him. He shot most everything into my Wagon, and did 12 HP to it. His heldrake assaulted the trukk and did 4 HPs. Trukks and Wagons are Freaking Tough. Then his Bezerkers charged in to my big squad of boyz. He also sent in pox walkers, but they weren't a big deal. The Bezerkers who got everyone in activate, and kill 8-9 boyz. I then use command points to prempt the other squad of bezerkers, and kill 3 with boyz. Despite that, after both squads of bezerkers had swung twice, they had killed all 30 boyz, and got 1st blood off my big squad of boyz. He was really proud of himself, but I wasn't too bothered, because now they were out of the rhinos in his backfield.
Turn 2: I disembark and advance the boyz in both the trukk and the Wagon congalining them back to the Warboss who advanced so I could run and charge. Tankbustas got out so they could shoot the heldrake. One Deff dread moved to engage the heldrake, the other one moves towards some bikes. My grotzooka kans move towards bikes. My other Kans move thowards the nearest squad of bezerkers which hasn't taken any casualties and is in cover (2+). Weirdboyz smite both get D6. Heldrake takes 6 mortal wounds, 3 Bezerkers Die. Tankbustas kill the heldrake. Killa kalns kill another 3 Bezerkers. Deffdread and weirdboy charge bikes. Killa Kans Charge bikes. My big squad of killa kans tries to multi-charge a defilers, and bezerkers but roll poorly, and don't make it. My trukkboyz feared the overwatch of the defiler, so they just charged the Bezerkers, and piled in to the defiler. They killed the bezerkers My wagon boyz charged the other defiler losing 6 in overwatch ouch. Then only doing 2 wounds to it.
My opponent Sent his slightly depleted squad of bezerkers to deal with my Wagon boyz. He is discouraged that he's got practically no shooting, because I'm tieing up both defilers, and the heldrake and bikes are dead. He charges a chaos lord into the trukk boyz. My Trukk boyz are reduced to just the nob (battle shock). My wagon boyz are wiped out, but I use 2 CP to prempt the bezerkers over there, and kill 2 more. Leaving that squad at 3, and taking 5 wounds off the Defiler.
Turn 3: It's been bloody. Lots of assault, and I'm basically out of Ork boyz. But my Kans and dreads are basically untouched. Tankbustas mange to get one defiler down to a single wound. I just couldn't get that last one off. Grotzookas Kill 2 bezerkers then multi-charges the last one and the defiler, but fail to take the last wound off the defiler, and it kills a Kan (wounded earlier) My big squad of killa kans charges the other defiler, and finish it. Weirboyz managed to kill a rhino I think.
My opponent unloads his full squad of Bezerkers talks them up a bunch, and then charges them into my big squad of Kans. He talks a bunch of trash on how the bezerkers are awesome because they killed a bunch of ork boyz. When they charge the Kans, they manage to kill the wounded one, and do nothing else. The Kans swing back and kill 4 Bezerkers.
Turn 4: I've got a Chaos lord in my backfield messing with my objective, so my tankbustas pull back to handle it. I send my warboss to kill a rhino. He fails. Rhinos are tough. I charge his chaos lord with a deff dread, but he prempts and kills it. My kans kill the rest of the Bezerkers.
He doesn't have much left so plays for objectives.
Turn 5: My remaining Deff dread plus warboss kill his chaos lord, taking one of his 2 objectives. I've got Grotzooka Kans on another, my Battle wagon on a 3rd, and my big squad of Kans are moving tokill the poxwarlkers on the final one.
My opponent's got a Rhino and some pox walkers left, so he concedes.
10 Lootas
10 Lootas
Battlewagon (Kannon) <- Drop w/ Lootas
Trukk (Big Shoota) <- Drop w/ Boyz + Weirdboy
Trukk (Big Shoota) <- Drop w/ Boyz + Weirdboy
Trukk (Big Shoota) <- Drop w/ Tankbustas
NOTE: I screwed up building this list. I needed 1 more troop to make it legal.
He's got 3 rhinos full of bezerkers, and 2 Soul grinders, a Chaos Lord on bike. Some Pox Walkers, and a spawn.
We played the pointed version of Dawn of War. Mission was new emperor's will. I went 1st because of fewer dropps. I dropped the tankbustas last, so that I could deploy them against a soul grinder on 1 flank.
Turn 1: I moved all 3 trukks up on the right flank. Tankbustas manage to do 15 wounds ot a soul grinder. I shoot all my lootas at it, and every other gun I have, and can't take the last wound off. Still pretty good.
He advanced everything. Except 1 rhino which charges my Tankbusta trukk. Doh!. That was dumb.
Turn 2: I disembark my tankbustas so they can shoot, and then build a line of trukks in front of them to protect them. They finish the wounded Soul grinder, and kill a rhino. Tankbustas are AWESOME. The lootas do 8 wounds to the other Soul Grinder, and kill the Spawn. *I should have disembarked the Weirdboyz to do some mortal wounds, but I didn't, because I was dumb.
He charges one of my trukks with a rhino, and the bezerkers who lost their rhino. The other Rhino Advances around my Trukk wall towards the lootas. The bezerkers kill my rhino, and pile in into the boyz that disembark from it.
Turn 3: I Disembark my last unit of boyz and weird boy, and reembark my Tank bustas. Between my 2 weird boyz I smite the unit of bezerkers to death. Whoo. Lootas take the Last Soulgrinder all the way down to its last wound. Then the tankbustas shoot another rhino to death, and 3 bezerkers die coming out, but the remaining deploy far from my boyz. I need a 12" charge. The boyz that were tied up charge the lord on bike, and do 1 wound to him, and lose 3 boyz. I make my 12" charge and kill all but 2 bezerkers. They manage to kill a bunch of boyz.
His last rhino charges my Battlewagon to tie up my Lootas. Doh!. I do 1 more wound to the chaos lord, and lose a few boyz (down to the nob). my other boyz finish the bezerkers, but are left with just the nob.
Turn 4: I disembark the lootas so they can shoot, and disengage the wagon. I shoot 1/2 at the Soul Grinder and fail to kill it. I shoot the others at the rhino and fail to kill it. My tankbustas have to avance back towards the rhino, so only do 6 wounds to it because of snap shooting. Weirdboyz kill the chaos lord, but he manages to kill 1 weirdboy, and the nob. Other Nob charges the poxwalkers, kills 2, and gets Heroic interventioned by another chaos lord who smashes him.
He moves up his wounded soulgrinder, and between it and the rhino they kill 6, and the rest die to battleshock. His bezerkers assault, and kill the other squad, but take several casualties. That means he's got my Emperor's will objective, and the poxwalkers have his. It's looking bleak.
We made a mistake right here, and rolled for the end of the game, because we thought it was bottom of 5. The game ended and he won. But he wanted to play it out, basically to witness the glory that is bezerkers.
Turn 5: I disembark the tank bustas, kill the soul grinder with 2 of them, and a bunch of bezerkers. My trukk and battle wagon manage to kill the rhino. I didn't kill enough bezerkers, so I charge the last 4, and kill 2 in CC. Unfortunately, those 2 kill about 1/2 of my tankbustas.
On his turn nothing to do so he just fights. He kills the last of the tankbustas, but is left with 1 bezerker who can't take the objective from my vehicles. It would be a dead tie right here (He has LB, I have FB).
Turn 6: My vehicles kill the last bezerker, so I would have had the win if it went to this turn, but as it was, I lost.
Here are some lessons and takaways.
1) Transports are really, really durable.
2) Killakans are really durable, and remarkedly killy.
3) Deff Dreads and Killa Kans are slow, and can't keep up with a faster army.
4) Killa Kans can contribute at range better than Deff Dreads, and are cheaper, I like them quite alot. Deff Dreads, not so much.
5) Tankbustas are AWESOME. Reroll to hit is so very, very good.
6) Take a backfield support unit. Mek Gunz are a good choice. Lootas are fine.
7) Lootas were underwhelming, and Lootas in a Wagon need a screening unit really, really bad.
8) Khorne bezerkers can kill infantry now. I guess that is something since people are gaga over them.
9) Boyz basically lost an attack with the end of the charge bonus. That hurts. Bad. They just can't kill MEK as easily as they used to. It hurts PK nobz especially bad, because they hit on 4's. There were many combats where the nob just missed entirely.
10) the loss of the ability to attach chars to boyz hurts as well. I'm not sure I'm feeling boyz as a very viable unit to actually kill stuff in 8th.
11) Seeing how durable the vehicles were, I think my preconceptions that the meta will develop into Big things, and things that can kill big things. Boyz used to be able to kill medium things like rhinos. No longer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 16:26:15
2017/06/11 16:24:18
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Was thinking I might try popping MANz in a 'Naut's tummy – to help mitigate the 4" move. On the other hand, I wonder if I'd be better off just Advancing the MANz (averaging 7.5" a turn, and then they can still shoot) and putting something less resilient in the 'Naut. Burnas seem like they might be the best option here, since they aren't going to miss out on any shooting until they're within 8". Maybe a unit of Nobz, but they're less fragile these days.
2017/06/11 16:45:50
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
The visual of a unit of burna boys kicking open the doors to a gork/morkanaught and just setting shut on fire is getting me giddy! Haha. I'm on mobile so can't check the rules but man and burnas are a natural compliment I feel. Wether it's in a wagon or a naught (less viable if it's only 10 models) the burnas add some weight of numbers and a decent amount of auto hits to soften a target up while manz have the ap punch. Especially with a killsaw in there.
2017/06/11 16:52:58
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Sal4m4nd3r wrote: The visual of a unit of burna boys kicking open the doors to a gork/morkanaught and just setting shut on fire is getting me giddy! Haha. I'm on mobile so can't check the rules but man and burnas are a natural compliment I feel. Wether it's in a wagon or a naught (less viable if it's only 10 models) the burnas add some weight of numbers and a decent amount of auto hits to soften a target up while manz have the ap punch. Especially with a killsaw in there.
Unfortunately you can only get six guys into a naut, but you could fit min-sized MANz and Burna units in a Trukk.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Errr anyone else noticed that Lootas and Tankbustas are the same number of points, but Lootas are twice the Power Level? Got to be a mistake, right?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 16:53:54
2017/06/11 16:56:27
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
What is the consensus on Kommandos?
Seems pretty reasonable, getting an additional point of saves in cover, and could deliver a big choppa or powerklaw onto something that needs it.
Also, Burnas and Lootas in the same Battlewagon? Throw a Big Mek or two with Shok-attack guns and maybe a KFF, etc.
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2017/06/11 17:16:03
Subject: Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh!
Anpu-adom wrote: What is the consensus on Kommandos?
Seems pretty reasonable, getting an additional point of saves in cover, and could deliver a big choppa or powerklaw onto something that needs it.
Also, Burnas and Lootas in the same Battlewagon? Throw a Big Mek or two with Shok-attack guns and maybe a KFF, etc.
Kommandos look pretty boss for the points. I imagine the go-to tactic will be to plop them into cover (if possible) at deployment, hope they survive the first turn if you're going second, then throw them at a bigger, more points-heavy unit to tie them up for a turn and hopefully inflict a reasonable amount of damage.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Not sure mixing Burnas and Lootas is such a great plan though; the former want to be up close, the latter far away.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/11 17:16:38
with a killsaw in there.
