Making Orks Competitive in 8th - Waaaagh! (Ork tactics)

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**Anpu-adom**

Thank you to those who've worked on the battlescribe data. I've been testing the beta files for a few days now, and I haven't discovered anything that didn't work right.

**tag8833**

davou wrote:
Used to love battle scribe, and I would gladly pay for a premium version... but the subscription model is garbage and I booted it off my phone the second I saw it.

Call me a hipocrite, because I write BS data files, and I don't pay for premium. I just use the free version.

**davou**

tag8833 wrote:
davou wrote:
Used to love battle scribe, and I would gladly pay for a premium version... but the subscription model is garbage and I booted it off my phone the second I saw it.
Call me a hipocrite, because I write BS data files, and I don't pay for premium. I just use the free version.

you do good work, but I cant stomach the way that model works

**MangoMadness**

tag8833 wrote:
The Battlescribe Ork file is all ready for 8th. In fact almost all of the BS files are updated for 8th.

Cheers. I havent used BS before so i thought I would check it out.

It does show the Boss Nob as an upgrade, that was something that caught my eye

**koooaei**

Jpr wrote:
void shields

do we have rules for voidshields?

**Jidmah**

All fortifications can be found in the back of the imperium 2 book.

**koooaei**

Ok, i'll need to take a look. My 7-th stratege revolved around bully boyz in trukks protected by vsg.

Anywayz, i'm concerned about ork listbuilding. Regular boyz can actually deal good damage if they're buffed up by Ghaz and banner nob and still have sufficient numbers. But they need to make it to combat intact and with some shooting that opponents possess it's gona be hard. Painboys don't add that much and kff meks don't work that great either cause they force boyz to bunch up. They're decent at protecting vehicles vs AT guns.

The problem i face right now is that i want a wagon full of nobz and preferably ghaz to buff the striking fist. And i want a lot of boyz and stormboyz. But they need another boss to watch for morale. And a wierdboy to teleport stuff around. And a KFF mek to protect everything. And a painboy to heal up the wierdboy and add this tiny bit of durability to the horde. And a banner nob to make them actually kill stuff in mellee. And...it's just too much stuff to fit in a regular ~1500pt list.

I guess we can't have everything. Which is a good thing, ofc. Not something we're used to after 7-th where only 20% of the book was viable

**Solar Shock**

koooaei wrote:

The problem i face right now is that i want a wagon full of nobz and preferably ghaz to buff the striking fist. And i want a lot of boyz and stormboyz. But they need another boss to watch for morale. And a wierdboy to teleport stuff around. And a KFF mek to protect everything. And a painboy to heal up the wierdboy and add this tiny bit of durability to the horde. And a banner nob to make them actually kill stuff in mellee. And...it's just too much stuff to fit in a regular ~1500pt list.

I guess we can't have everything. Which is a good thing, ofc. Not something we're used to after 7-th where only 20% of the book was viable

I hope what we will see is this feeling across all the codex's. So that all armies feel like they have to pick for the lower points games which thing are they going to focus around. As for your KFF. Personally I would add in a walker with a KFF. Could be great to have a meka-dred storming up the board alongside your boyz. Also makes the KFF area far larger. But thats just my two cents. Because for me, its walker time!

Stompa
Meka
+ whatever else I can fit in at 1500
Thats my first list im going with

**Latro_**

This is what i'm initially gonna go with, its more or less a direct conversion of my 7th ed list.

Quite mental how many characters you can get.

Is it me or do storm boyz almost feel undercosted? they:
- Went down a point (they were already cheap imo compared to boyz)
- Slower than before but compared to a normal ork whos now m5 they're 2pts more for over double the movement
- Obvious S increase (but all orks get this ofc)

Spoiler:

**koooaei**

Solar Shock wrote:
koooaei wrote:

The problem i face right now is that i want a wagon full of nobz and preferably ghaz to buff the striking fist. And i want a lot of boyz and stormboyz. But they need another boss to watch for morale. And a wierdboy to teleport stuff around. And a KFF mek to protect everything. And a painboy to heal up the wierdboy and add this tiny bit of durability to the horde. And a banner nob to make them actually kill stuff in mellee. And...it's just too much stuff to fit in a regular ~1500pt list.

I guess we can't have everything. Which is a good thing, ofc. Not something we're used to after 7-th where only 20% of the book was viable

I hope what we will see is this feeling across all the codex's. So that all armies feel like they have to pick for the lower points games which thing are they going to focus around. As for your KFF. Personally I would add in a walker with a KFF. Could be great to have a meka-dred storming up the board alongside your boyz. Also makes the KFF area far larger. But thats just my two cents. Because for me, its walker time!

Stompa
Meka
+ whatever else I can fit in at 1500
Thats my first list im going with

I think it's naught time! Stompa - i'm not so keen on for 900+ pts. But naughts are durable enough and deal good damage in mellee. And meka dreads look so promising. Probably even more so than naughts cause they're cheaper, still super durable and fast (and look cooler imo).

But let's see what fw brings to the table in regards to stompas. GW might have followed the tradition of codex stompa being lackluster while fw stompa balancing on the edge of being broken good.

**gungo**

Jidmah wrote:
All fortifications can be found in the back of the imperium 2 book.

do we have rules for the shadow war terrain?

**Dojo**

Is anyone else miffed that our battlewagon is only t7? It was one of our only armor 14 units. I feel like its durability is some situations has now dropped as a whole. I figured it would have been at least 8 possibly 9.
i know when it comes to say rear and side armor we had issues with its elongate profile but that made clever positioning of benefit. now to get the toughness we should have started with we have to take an upgrade that gimps it as a gunboat.

**koooaei**

You can place a hard casing on your wagon to make it t8. It looses open-topped but if you're running a wagon as a transport for choppy stuff, that's what you should probably do.

Back to fortifications. So, a voidshield is 4++ for models wholly within 12'. For 190 points. Doesn't seem so great now.

**Blackie**

With the 'ard case it becomes T8. If you only need a transport for melee units it's an autoinclude as it's a free upgrade. Assault is allowed anyway.

**Solar Shock**

koooaei wrote:

SNIP

Stompa
Meka
+ whatever else I can fit in at 1500
Thats my first list im going with

I think it's naught time! Stompa - i'm not so keen on for 900+ pts. But naughts are durable enough and deal good damage in mellee. And meka dreads look so promising. Probably even more so than naughts cause they're cheaper, still super durable and fast (and look cooler imo).

But let's see what fw brings to the table in regards to stompas. GW might have followed the tradition of codex stompa being lackluster while fw stompa balancing on the edge of being broken good.

Yeh, Im halfway through building a stompa out of my bits and its got LED's and stuff, so that thing is gona see the table

But I do agree, I think its a little overpriced. for 900 points i'd take 3-4 meka-dred's.... 4 giant walkers mega-charging up the board... Ouch!

I've magnetized, so when the FW stuff hits I can create some extra arms.

But yeh, Gorka's with a couple meka's, you get the KFF and have some serious melee potential. I can't workout which weapon loadouts are best, I feel like anti-vehicle can be done by melee, The gorka has the melee attack options, so probably better for killing infantry and smashing vehicles. But the meka can already do some work on vehicles with its rippa claws. I dont think keeping two rippa's for the extra attack is worth it. But maybe the Str 5 2D6 weapon? for piling on wounds on elite infantry?

Thoughts on the weapon options?

**Anpu-adom**

Rereading the basic rules on pistols... For me, this gives Choppa boyz a definite edge over Shoota boyz.
<q> A model can fire a Pistol even if there are enemy units within 1" of its own unit, but it must target the closest enemy unit. In such circumstances, the model can shoot its Pistol even if other friendly units are within 1" of the same enemy unit."</q>

So, if I have a unit of 30 boyz locked in with a unit. According to my reading of the rules above, a nearby unit of 30 boyz with pistols can fire into the scrum as long as it is the closest enemy unit.

**koooaei**

It's highly unlikely something is gona stay locked in combat with your boyz for pistols to make any shots in mellee. Cause the enemy either dies, runs away or chops your boyz to bits.

It might only matter vs mellee armies with weak killiness. Like...i don't know, termi spam?

**Sal4m4nd3r**

While the pistol shots while locked in combat are at 5+ to hit, they are attacks that have absolutely no down side and were not available before. And they already "gave us" the extra attack for having to cc weapons on the choppa special ability. So they are just free shooting attacks. nothing to write home about. nothing to scoff at either. MORE DAKKA WAAAAAAGH!

**Solar Shock**

I think what he's saying is that pistols are better because it means you can shoot into the unit that's locked in combat with another unit that's about to charge.

Which is wrong. It says if you are within 1", then you can shoot your pistols at that unit. The "in such circumstances" basically means you have to satisfy the first condition, so you have to be locked in combat 'within 1 inch'. So no, you can't shoot pistols into an enemy unit locked in combat before charging

**JohnU**

koooaei wrote:

Back to fortifications. So, a voidshield is 4++ for models wholly within 12'. For 190 points. Doesn't seem so great now.

Konga-lining units outside the shield still works somewhat. Leave some models in the the bubble and allocate wounds to them as needed.

**Bigdoza**

Has anyone tried 10x Meganobz in a Ard Case Wagon with a second transport carrying , Ghaz, Nob with banner and a weirdboy with warpath?

If all of the stars alligned would give you 60 Str 10 killsaw attacks hitting on 3s. Would need to roll really poorly to not deal 60+ wounds to any toughness.

My test rolls have it easily one rounding multiple land raiders in a turn or even a Stompa before it swings.

Also the Nob with warbanner says adds 1 to hit rolls.

Does this mean Ghaz and Deffrolla would autohit near it?

One of the lists im tinkering with.

All of the goodies.

Spoiler:

**Grimskul**

In matched play rolls of 1 are auto fails for to hit and save rolls so even for guys who hit on a 2+ the WAAAGH banner wouldn't benefit them.

Personally it seems like a too many eggs in one basket situation, and while the meganobz are ded killy, you could probably spread out that damage instead since they're largely going to be overkill on most units. They also don't deal with screening units well.

**Perfect Organism**

koooaei wrote:
So, a voidshield is 4++ for models wholly within 12'. For 190 points. Doesn't seem so great now.

Remember that you can choose which models make the save, so you can have half the unit in the bubble and assign all the hits to the ones with a better save. Seems like a fairly decent set-up for a big collection of mek gunz.

**SemperMortis**

Perfect Organism wrote:
koooaei wrote:
So, a voidshield is 4++ for models wholly within 12'. For 190 points. Doesn't seem so great now.

Remember that you can choose which models make the save, so you can have half the unit in the bubble and assign all the hits to the ones with a better save. Seems like a fairly decent set-up for a big collection of mek gunz.

I don't think it works like that. You can take casualties from the rear if you want though. Id have to check the rules for the VSG

**Weazel**

Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Weazel wrote:
Planning on running 8-10 Nobz. How do you feel about combi-skorchas? They cost as much as another Nob but they overcome the lackluster BS and might be useful in overwatch if you happen to catch a charge. Are they worth it or should I just use the points for another Nob?

I want to love Kombii weapons so bad! Just from a modeling perspective the thought of just attaching a scorches to the kombi shoota with some greenstuff rope or greenstuff "duct tape" is hilarious to me. I just wish they were cheaper!! 20 points is a lot. How many times will you fire that scorcha in 5 turns? 2 maybe three times? An extra nob will fight twice as many times as that. If I did Kombi weapons, I think rokkits with a couple ammo runts (which I will be taking anyways to eat wounds) could be quite effective. My first game the opponent had a ton of rhinos. And they didn't do a lot of damage but he would drop the unit inside hen use the rhinos to block me and tie up other units. Forcing them to fall back and I just didn't have enough rokkits to take them down fast enough. Volume rokkit fire is going to be helpful in a world of such tough transports.

No second opinion on skorchas? I'm inclined to agree that you're not going to get that many shots off before you're stuck in or wiped out. But on average you should kill a MEQ if you get to shoot at one, and they tend to cost about as much as the kombi-skorcha... soo it's not overpriced on that regard but it's not an autoinclude either I think.

**koooaei**

Grimskul wrote:

meganobz are ded killy

10 unbuffed meganobz with a pk won't be able to kill a landraider in one go. Not telling about a knight. And they cost more than both.

I can't wrap my head around meganobz in 8-th. They're really not that killy for the points. If you compare the kiliness-per-points, regular choppa boyz deal ~20% more damage vs something like a rhino in mellee. Not telling about really killy stuff like tempestus scion comsquad (that you can now spam easilly) that's 3 times killier than a meganob. That's before facturing transports in.

I guess meganobz can be used as semi-durable things with large bases to try to eat overwatch and tie more units up in mellee. But they're not really all that killy. Basically anything else - other than grots and transports - is killier than meganobz point-for-point. Maybe as skorcha platforms? I don't know. They're really quite underwhelming now. I should probably convert them to kila kanz or something.

**JohnU**

VSG just says models wholly within 12" of the shield (unless the shooter is also within the shield. Wound allocation rules in the BRB specify that you can allocate to models that are out of range or not visible to the shooter, so even if you're stretched out you should be ok as long as some models are within the shield. It doesn't confer to the entire unit like it used to, but the models within the shield itself can take the inv save.

Just don't whiff.

**skyfi**

3 bw with rollas 540
Ghaz 215
8 mega nobs 400
20 boys bc nob 129
20 boys bc nob 129
Banner nob 75
Painboy 70?? Can't remember

1558 I think? Ton points but with the buff from ghaz and banner, these 3 wagons full of gak should be a huge scary force whenever they slam into something. Could hit an entire gun line at once possibly. Enough room for plenty of other stuff as well. Plus you're only deploying 3 units? Should help get first turn. A large squad of stormboys with zag dropping in would help this as well. If you brought stormboys n zag should still have enough room for shooty stuff and obj grabbers (albeit somewhat limited).. I think stormboys x 30 plus zag is about 300 points? Leaves about 120 points for some guns and grots if you wanted to go that route, or could fit 2 wartrakk/buggy.

Would make deployment 3 units with 3 in reserve so almost guaranteed to go first even vs "elite" armies. We will have as many deployments as a "3 knight" list?

**JohnU**

If you're just running one painboy on foot and you don't want the grot orderly (or killsaw), consider the Mad Dok for a few points more. Little better in combat, much more survivable.

**skyfi**

More or less commenting on viability of manz. I think that they can be used but you really HAVE to support them with banner and ghaz? Which ups their cost and killiness. I imagine most people will just avoid those 3 wagons and backpedal as far as they can. Of course could get a weirdboy or 2 for the jump with spare points.

They seem so so costly but if you factor in buffs I think they may be more viable.. but everything we add to their killiness also makes them our enemies most likely want to avoid them and shoot them off board

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JohnU wrote:
If you're just running one painboy on foot and you don't want the grot orderly (or killsaw), consider the Mad Dok for a few points more. Little better in combat, much more survivable.

Does he still go crazy and chase nearest unit in circles?