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 JohnU wrote:

Solar Shock wrote:
so, now that our fliers have no facing, does that make all its weapons on a 360 arc? also, with the whole supersonic rule, does this mean we are basically doing minimum 20 inch square laps?

Yes and yes.

Yeah, the 20in square around the battlefield is really going to limit the ability of fliers to go for objectives, and makes the wazbom's short range weapons somewhat worse. Not having to worry about weapon arcs is great though.

I've played a couple games vs necrons. Decided to try Ghaz, banner nob and 3 solo koptas.

First game was 1150 pts
Lists:


I got the 1-st turn and decided to outflank koptas trying to hide them from his anti-tnak shooting and tie up warriors on one flank. All the boyz and characters advanced - boyz got good moves but the banner nob and wierdboy lagged behind - even with a cp re-roll. One kopta made it to warriors and tied them up. Crons decided to leave a barge and spider behind, moved all the warriors and immortals into rapid-fire range. Blos didn't help koptas as he shot from the spider's leg and killed a kopta and from the edge of a barge and killed another one. Warriors and immortals killed a bunch of boyz. Deathmarks didn't do anything to a wierdboy.

2-d turn saw orks advancing forward - banner nob got a bad advance roll again. I decided to killing a couple scarab bases with smite and all the bits of shooting i had. This allowed all boyz to get to warriors. All 3 squads made their charges - thanks to re-rolls and wiped all the warriors, immortals and scarabs. Even without a +1 to-hit from banner nob but with +1 attack from Ghaz and a further +1 from greentide.

Necron player decided to concede and we played a second game - a smaller ~500 pt one this time.

Second game vs crons.
Lists:


This time crons got 1-st turn but i stole ini and advanced. Shot a warrior down with tl-dakkaguns but he went back up.
This time necrons tried to play more defensively and stayed ~22' away from boyz. The spider went a bit closer - around 19', however. But it was mainly due to terrain. Also, he wanted to lure a larger squad of boyz away from warriors with a spider - which is a nice plan ofc.
His shooting killed 14 boyz - 12 from one squad and 2 from another.
As i had no way of killing him at range and couldn't wait to get ideal positioning, i just rushed the warboss towards his necron warriors and a larger boy squad towards a spider - as i had to keep it away from the boss. Kopta arrived close to warriors. Boss made a charge towards his warriors and piled in to another squad to tie them up. Killed 4 cron robots and suffered 2 wounds in return. Wierdboy smited a spider for 3 mortal wounds and a larger boy squad inflicted another 3 on the charge.
3 warriors reanimated and a spider regained a wound and decided to disengage boyz and lure them even further from the warrior blobs. 9 warriors disengaged from boss. Mellee saw boss loosing another wound and inflicting 2 wounds to a cryptech.
Orks that were free from a spider decided it was a better idea to stomp smaller robots rather than chase the larger spider one. Wierdboy advanced towards a cryptech but rolled a 1 even with a cp re-roll. Kopta flew over 9 warriors and dropped a bomm killig 3. The smaller boy squad moved towards a cryptech. Charging got 6 necron warriors and a cryptech killed. Furthermore, most of the other necron squad died.
Next turn the rest of the warriors died, spider shot a wierdboy for 3 wounds and orks kept the rest of the game chasing down the spider.

Some insights:
- Ghaz is great. His +1 attack aura alone is worth 100 pts over a regular megaboss. And he's got better stats to boot. Is definitely playable even footslogging.
- Banner nob is really dependant on how well you roll your advance moves. It's very easy to get the boyz run out of his small aura like it happened in my 1-st game. 79 pts is a stiff price to pay for him. I'm not sure he's really worth it but i might be wrong.
- Koptas are not amazing. They have utility but they're just so squishy for the points. It's almost impossible to hide them with how shooting and cover works now. And a couple multi-damage shots are bound to down a kopta. The speed is ok. Bomb is pretty useful. Shooting and mellee are forgettable. I'd say that their real price is close to ~45-50 pts and definitely not ~77.
- Boyz are great vs stuff that can't one-shot them off the board. They deal good damage for the points - especially with some +attack buffs.

Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

Spoiler:

Solar Shock wrote:

killtank loadout? whats everyones thoughts? 2d6 s10 d4 bursta, or the 6d6 s6 d1 giga? initially i am leaning towards the bursta, with 2d6 using a CP a turn is going to net you a reasonable number of shots, question is, does it do enough damage? lets say you get 8 shots, 4 hits, wounding on 3+ against most vehicles. your only averaging about 6 damage a turn. seems pretty low output. the giga isnt any better vs tougher vehicles, but at str 6 it should be great at piling wounds onto light vehicles. Thoughts?

I haven't tried either yet, but looking at the stats the Bursta Kannon and Giga Shoota seem pretty balanced against each other. I like the Bursta Kannon a little bit more, not because the Giga Shoota is bad, but rather because the orks already have a lot of high-volume, medium strength shooting.

I was a bit disappointed with the Bursta Kannon when I first looked at it, but if I'm doing the math right it's pretty comparable to four lascannons that are hitting on 3+. It won't annihilate an enemy tank all by itself, but neither will most other things. It's hard to get used to how tough vehicles are.

I'm thinking about running 3x Twin Big Shootas on my Kill Tanks. I think that normally Skorchas are better than Twin Big Shootas because Orks are frequently advancing, but on a Kill Tank or other vehicle that's holding still Big Shootas seem really good for the points. Racks of Rokkits seem overcosted, even with the Kill Tank hitting on 4+.

I think that the Kill Tanks are roughly comparable to Land Raiders in function. Kill Tanks have better overall damage output (roughly the same dakka, but Kill Tanks can fight in close combat and embarked units have a limited ability to shoot). Kill Tanks have 50% more wounds , but the Land Raider has a better save. Land Raiders have smoke launchers, which are situationally better than the Grot Riggers of Kill Tanks. Kill Tanks move a little faster and haul a couple more models. I think that overall the Kill Tank is better than a Land Raider*, and it costs fewer points.
*This isn't counting the effect of buffing characters, which can be significant. It's also assuming a standard Land Raider and not any of the variants.

Yeh, pretty much how i feel about it. Anyways, considering there isnt a model for the two weapons, I am just gona stick a necron doom-cannon-laser-thiny on mine, pretty sure thats its official name
Rokkit racks seem overcosted on everything, 28 points for 2 rokkits, that cost 12 each normally. honestly I haven't found any platform that I think the 28 points is worth it.
The killtank cant fallback and shoot, the one thing I dislike about it. Big shootas keep it cheap, im tempted by KMB's if im running the bursta, for some extra anti-tank. Plus KMB's only cause 1 mortal wound regardless of number of shots, which is nice. But big shootas will be great with split fire. Stick a kommando unit inside and you have a few extra burna shots for overwatch too.

koooaei wrote:I've played a couple games vs necrons. Decided to try Ghaz, banner nob and 3 solo koptas.

Some insights:
- Ghaz is great. His +1 attack aura is alobe worth 100 pts over a regular megaboss. And he's got better stats to boot. Is definitely playable even footslogging.
- Banner nob is really dependant on how well you roll your advance moves. It's very easy to get the boyz run out of his small aura like it happened in my 1-st game. 79 pts is a stiff price to pay for him. I'm not sure he's really worth it but i might be wrong.
- Koptas are not amazing. They have utility but they're just so squishy for the points. It's almost impossible to hide them with how shooting and cover works now. And a couple multi-damage shots are bound to down a kopta. The speed is ok. Bomb is pretty useful. Shooting and mellee are forgettable. I'd say that their real price is close to ~45-50 pts and definitely not ~77.
- Boyz are great vs stuff that can't one-shot them off the board. They deal good damage for the points - especially with some +attack buffs.

Sounded like great games. Ghaz seems to be a good HQ choice, I may have to include him in my lists if hes viable footslogging.
How close was your banner nob? sounds like the poor advance rolls really ruined it, even with CP re-rolls. Were you putting him inside the boyz units at the start? (how close to the deployment line was he? I feel like you need to bury him on the line in boyz).
I feel koptas need to be kept cheap. the rokkits on them is just too much imo, the platform isn't tough enough to survive long enough. KMB's, yes they will help kill yourself, but lets be honest, if the enemy wants you dead, you dead. like you experienced. Give them KMB's, drop bombs and suicide into stuff its the ork way!

Were most of your boyz getting into CC? wondering whether sticking 5-10 shootas in your units would have been a net buff? if only a small one.

@jidmah, shame about the FW stuff, but it makes sense. let us know how the list gets on. I agree with Kooo about making the kanz units smaller, im personally just gona use a warboss and put d3 mortals on them instead, but I have yet to run my list.

 koooaei wrote:
Boss made a charge towards his warriors and piled in to another squad to tie them up.

How did that work? Did he have two units standing right next to each other?

- Banner nob is really dependant on how well you roll your advance moves. It's very easy to get the boyz run out of his small aura like it happened in my 1-st game. 79 pts is a stiff price to pay for him. I'm not sure he's really worth it but i might be wrong.

I think the key to most auras is not running them in the back of mobs but rather in front, with just 2-3 boyz in front of the character to prevent your opponent from shooting them. Pretty much like you used to run PK nobz in the previous edition. Of course, if you roll great on all boyz advances and terrible on the character he will be left behind at some point. In that case conga-lining one or two boyz towards them should still keep the aura active.

- Koptas are not amazing. They have utility but they're just so squishy for the points. It's almost impossible to hide them with how shooting and cover works now. And a couple multi-damage shots are bound to down a kopta.

I got the same impression, but they work a lot better when used with battlewagons, because they are weak to the same weapons. It's either shooting koptaz or battlewagons then, not both.
I'd not run them with footsloggers again.

Solar Shock wrote:
Sounded like great games. Ghaz seems to be a good HQ choice, I may have to include him in my lists if hes viable footslogging.

I think he is. Ghaz has a place in most footslogging or mech lists in at least 750 pt games. He's well worth his points.

Solar Shock wrote:How close was your banner nob? sounds like the poor advance rolls really ruined it, even with CP re-rolls. Were you putting him inside the boyz units at the start? (how close to the deployment line was he? I feel like you need to bury him on the line in boyz).

I started all the characters inside a central blob closer to the front. But than boyz rolled a 5 on advance a couple turns in a row and nob got 2 and 1. I even spread the boyz so tha they would touch the aura hoping that the nob would advance far enough 2-d turn but it wasn't the case. And than boyz had to make a ~7' charge and i forgot to leave 3-5 boyz behind just to be in banner nob'z range. So, the banner nob didn't do anything this game.

Solar Shock wrote:I feel koptas need to be kept cheap. the rokkits on them is just too much imo, the platform isn't tough enough to survive long enough. KMB's, yes they will help kill yourself, but lets be honest, if the enemy wants you dead, you dead. like you experienced. Give them KMB's, drop bombs and suicide into stuff its the ork way!

Yeah, i agree. I probably miscalculated - a kopta with tl bigshoota is <70 pts. That's still a lot. KMB are a tiny bit cheaper but are even worse at shooting at the same time. I don't know, really. It seems that i'd do better with another biker boss or squad of boyz.

Solar Shock wrote:Were most of your boyz getting into CC? wondering whether sticking 5-10 shootas in your units would have been a net buff? if only a small one.

I indeed fielded 10 shootas in each squad and they helped out a bit. They inflicted a couple wounds to scarabs finishing off a base allowing boyz to actually get to immortals and kill them on the charge. It all doesn't feel like much but even this tiny bits can be helpful. Especially when other shooting is close to nonexistent.

Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Boss made a charge towards his warriors and piled in to another squad to tie them up.

How did that work? Did he have two units standing right next to each other?

Yeah, he kept warriors close to buff them with a cryptech's +1 to RP and 5++. And i charged right in the middle where i could easilly pivot the base to get within 1' of another squad.

Jidmah wrote:I think the key to most auras is not running them in the back of mobs but rather in front, with just 2-3 boyz in front of the character to prevent your opponent from shooting them. Pretty much like you used to run PK nobz in the previous edition. Of course, if you roll great on all boyz advances and terrible on the character he will be left behind at some point. In that case conga-lining one or two boyz towards them should still keep the aura active.

I placed the nob amidst the blob - dead center to protect from deathmark's rapid fire. Usually charge ranges for footslogging boyz after advance are around 6-9'. Which brings them apart even further. In my case, the nob was >12' away from the blob's backlines and i simply forgot about him. They still did a ton of damage which was enough to wipe 20 warriors, 5 immortals and a couple scarab bases. +1 attack from Ghaz and +1 attack for a couple blobz were suffecient enough.

Jidmah wrote: I got the same impression, but they work a lot better when used with battlewagons, because they are weak to the same weapons. It's either shooting koptaz or battlewagons then, not both.
I'd not run them with footsloggers again.

They can work with larger los-blocking terrain but it's just not present in large amounts in the place where i play. Yeah, we have some large ruins but they don't help when the opponent can shoot all his guns from a vehicle's antenna or edge of the tread.

 koooaei wrote:

Yeah, i agree. I probably miscalculated - a kopta with tl bigshoota is <70 pts. That's still a lot. KMB are a tiny bit cheaper but are even worse at shooting at the same time. I don't know, really. It seems that i'd do better with another biker boss or squad of boyz.

Or a painboy on a warbike. They are better than you think. Just sayin


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:
I placed the nob amidst the blob - dead center to protect from deathmark's rapid fire. Usually charge ranges for footslogging boyz after advance are around 6-9'. Which brings them apart even further. In my case, the nob was >12' away from the blob's backlines and i simply forgot about him. They still did a ton of damage which was enough to wipe 20 warriors, 5 immortals and a couple scarab bases. +1 attack from Ghaz and +1 attack for a couple blobz were suffecient enough.

Yes, that has been my experience too. The charge always leaves the characters behind. It is not always you want your bosses and other buff-characters to be in on the initial charge, as most players are clever enough to put all their attacks on the character. Ghaz can deal with this much better, which makes him feel faster on the board, even though he isn't.

What guns did he put on his immortals?

Or a painboy on a warbike. They are better than you think. Just sayin

The last game I played against An ultramarine force of some tactical squads, devastator squad, predator, couple of primaris marine squads with the fancy plasma guns, and gulliman/gouliman/girlyman. That dude is squiq crap. Re-rolling everything?! LOL and that frickin sword is brutal. I charged the remnants of a boyz blob into him and all I got was butthurt. 58 attacks..0 wounds.

Anywayz..I had a big mek with KFF and a dok for two boyz blobs that were footslogging it. Another got jumped. But 60 boyz with a 5++/6++ and I saved MAYBE 10 boyz throughout the whole game. Once the boyz get into combat the big mek is hanging out with his dick in the wind..and the boy boy just isnt worth for 60+ points. Those two knuckleheads represented about 130 points. (I had another painboy that i used as a sacrifice when the meganobz battlewagon blew up because I was so pissed at the lack of fixin the other was doing ). So all said I was 190 points in for defensive/healing buff characters. I rather just take 30 more boyz. Or upgrade my MA warboss to ghaz and take another banner nob. I Think I'm done with KFF and Painboys for boys blobs.

I suppose when I try out an all bike list I will see if the painboy on bike is better for the bikes. But At this point i doubt it.

So far my pain boyz have done more killing than healing or saving. I think that they are probably better with multi-wound models, but I have not been super impressed with them.

KFF meks are better for vehicle heavy lists than they are for mobs, it is easier to cover more units, and you typically get shot by more high AP weapons, so getting a 5++ matters more when you are dropping from a 3+ or 4+ save, than it does when you improved from a 3+ save. Especially against AP 0 weapons, look at it this way, for every 6 AP 0 wounds the KFF saves 1 additional boy. I think the pain boy is a bit better for the Blobs than the KFF (because the blob can chain out to gain his buff, and against AP 0 the result is more or less the same out of the KFF (saves about 1 extra boy), and his buff works in combat.

pismakron wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

Yeah, i agree. I probably miscalculated - a kopta with tl bigshoota is <70 pts. That's still a lot. KMB are a tiny bit cheaper but are even worse at shooting at the same time. I don't know, really. It seems that i'd do better with another biker boss or squad of boyz.

Or a painboy on a warbike. They are better than you think. Just sayin

That can still be true cause i'm having VERY low expectations. I think that there's no reason to take biker doks in a footslogging list when there's Grotsnik. Biker lists are not functional and mech lists don't really need doks as they're quite overcosted on smaller squads. And...once again there's Grotsnik who can at least deal more damage and is quite a bit sturdier.
I have an old metal saw painboy, a well-painted converted nob painboy and a slightly converted biker nob that used to perform a biker painboy role in 7-th. So, painboy issue, just like meganob one, is quite concerning for me. I think i'll field grotsnik as either a metal painboy or converted one. However, there's an issue of metal painboy being too small for grotsnik and the nob painboy not having a power klaw. He does have a mean-looking injector-pistol and a rusty syrenge.

I've been trying to come up with a competitive horde list varient and I'm thinking of using biker warbosses and mass stormboyz

To reduce casualties, can I advance and charge stormboyz using a nearby warboss' 'Waaagh' rule, instead of using the stormboyz 'Full throttle' rule? Given that both rules do the same thing I assume you can choose which applies..

Edit - Thanks Tilds - Waaagh only works on infantry
I̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶n̶ ̶b̶i̶k̶e̶r̶s̶ ̶m̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶o̶o̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶y̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶c̶o̶m̶b̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶ ̶1̶ ̶(̶W̶a̶a̶a̶g̶h̶!̶ ̶n̶e̶c̶e̶s̶s̶a̶r̶y̶)̶:̶ ̶
1̶4̶"̶ ̶m̶o̶v̶e̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶ ̶+̶ ̶D̶6̶ ̶a̶d̶v̶a̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶+̶ ̶2̶D̶6̶ ̶(̶r̶e̶r̶o̶l̶l̶)̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶g̶e̶ ̶=̶ ̶m̶a̶x̶i̶m̶u̶m̶ ̶3̶2̶"̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶t̶u̶r̶n̶,̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶2̶4̶"̶ ̶a̶s̶s̶u̶m̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶r̶e̶r̶o̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶o̶w̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶g̶e̶.̶ ̶

Is the price of bikers relative to their combat effectiveness generally putting off people ?

Levski wrote:

I haven't seen bikers mentioned too much but they seem to have the best chance of making it combat turn 1 (Waaagh! necessary):
14" movement + D6 advance + 2D6 (reroll) charge = maximum 32" in one turn, but much more likely to be around 24" assuming you reroll a low charge.

Is the price of bikers relative to their combat effectiveness generally putting off people ?

Waaaagh! only works on infantry

Levski wrote:
I've been trying to come up with a competitive horde list varient and I'm thinking of using biker warbosses and mass stormboyz

To reduce casualties, can I advance and charge stormboyz using a nearby warboss' 'Waaagh' rule, instead of using the stormboyz 'Full throttle' rule? Given that both rules do the same thing I assume you can choose which applies..

I haven't seen bikers mentioned too much but they seem to have the best chance of making it combat turn 1 (Waaagh! necessary):
14" movement + D6 advance + 2D6 (reroll) charge = maximum 32" in one turn, but much more likely to be around 24" assuming you reroll a low charge.

Is the price of bikers relative to their combat effectiveness generally putting off people ?

Waagh! doesn't effect bikes, so they cannot get to a 32" charge, they can only get to 26", Storm boyz, can get to 30" max so they would be the best solo unit that could charge turn 1. That said using DA jump on a unit is the most reliable 1st turn charge as it ensures a 9" charge. To get a 9" charge with storm boyz, in most deployments requires a 3" run if your opponent is deployed on the edge of their deployment zone. On those with 18" gap at closest you can do it almost all the time, if your opponent deploys too close.

I think the competitive horde will be mixed boyz and stormboyz, with a warboss, and weirdboy with Da jump, maybe some Kommandos, to throw a lot of threat turn 1 to allow your other units a chance to move up.

Breng77 wrote:
So far my pain boyz have done more killing than healing or saving. I think that they are probably better with multi-wound models, but I have not been super impressed with them.

KFF meks are better for vehicle heavy lists than they are for mobs, it is easier to cover more units, and you typically get shot by more high AP weapons, so getting a 5++ matters more when you are dropping from a 3+ or 4+ save, than it does when you improved from a 3+ save. Especially against AP 0 weapons, look at it this way, for every 6 AP 0 wounds the KFF saves 1 additional boy. I think the pain boy is a bit better for the Blobs than the KFF (because the blob can chain out to gain his buff, and against AP 0 the result is more or less the same out of the KFF (saves about 1 extra boy), and his buff works in combat.

mad doc with several weirdboy smiting isn't bad since he can heal one when needed and provide a chance to save vs mortal wounds. Hes also fairly resilent and decent in combat, but the its list dependent.

Check out Wagon with supa kannon and deff rolla with bustas inside.

Its like 2D6 + 6 rokkets for 300ish.

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Check out Wagon with supa kannon and deff rolla with bustas inside.

Its like 2D6 + 6 rokkets for 300ish.

Nice idea! The only thing is that those 2d6 shots dont get re-rolls against vehicles. So a Trukk with 12 TB's (or 10 and 2 bomb squigs that I usually take) Gets 12 shots guaranteed with re-rolls against vehicles. An average of roll of 2d6 is 6.5. Round up to 7 because WAAAGGHH! so thats 13 shots. One more shot on average, but no re-rolls. And only one max bomb squig. Although much tougher and more wounds than the trukk. I'm not trying to put a damper on your idea.. just another example on how orks get no cool toys. The regular stuff is most efficient.

Although, I think the Kill tank with burna boyz would be an interesting unit. Roll forward, blasting away, dump burnas, charge in, burnas flame on!

Levski wrote:
Is the price of bikers relative to their combat effectiveness generally putting off people ?

Warbikers have first and foremost always been a shooting unit. They still are and their damage output is pretty impressive when they do shoot. A full mob can put 3-4 wounds on pretty much anything that's not a landraider.
Them being able to do a decent job when charging is just icing on the cake.

However, they die like flies to weapons that do two damage per shot, smite, plus anything with AP -1 or better also works well, so you pretty much get the survivability of two boyz for more than twice the points.
From that point of view the should be costed somewhere around 18-20 points, but not 27. At the current level your opponent can even point lascannons at them and still get his points pack.

Been reading this thread and have gotten some good ideas about what is/isn't pulling its weight in 8th

I'm playing in a league and wanted some input on my weapon choices and my spare units.

The general abstract list is as follows:

HQ
Ghazzy (because, well yeah awesome)

Weirdboy for Da Jump (picking our powers)

Elites
Nob w Waaaagh Banner
Troops
30 Boyz
3x Big Shoota
Nob w PK


Troops
30 Boyz
3x Big Shoota
Nob w PK


Troops
30 Boyz
3x Big Shoota
Nob w PK


Troops
30 Boyz
3x Big Shoota
Nob w PK


Troops
30 Boyz
3x Big Shoota
Nob w PK

Then I have about 529 points to play around with.

I'm thinking of the following

Snikrot

8x Kommandoz
Nob with PK
2x Burnaz

5x Storm Boyz
Nob w Big Choppa

Deff Dredd
4x PK (also, based on the wording a Dredd w 4 Klaws appears to add +4 attacks, so 6 total, am I reading this correctly?)

Dakka Jet
6x Supa Shootaz (for flyers and picking off pesky Dev squads and similar)

What do you guys think? I have a lot of models to play around with so aside from Mek Gunz and Morka/Gorkaknaugts I can field almost any other unit in the game

I'm not feeling Lootaz, I just got board with them after 3.5 editions of the same thing. They're either amazing or terrible and usually the latter.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit* Also, thoughts on all PK's for the Nobz? Thinking some Big Choppas save me a boat load of points, and S7 D2 is pretty good against most targets. S10 D3 is nice too but hitting on best 3's is going to be questionable I think.

I wouldn't put too much stock into PK Nobz hitting on 3s at best (usually 4s).

Last edition WS4 meant you hit on 4s against a large proportion of stuff, with the exceptions being Tau, Guard and Tyranids, with two of those folding in combat and the third resorting to Flyrant spam that WS4 may as well have been WS0, especially since the Job could be challenged by all those Hive Tyrants.

Vehicles were the only thing that WS4 Power Klaws were reliable against but Tankbustas and Meganobz did that for you.

My experience does not really let me judge the list above, but to drop in an other perspective, the model count is frightening. Recently I played a game with 90ish boyz and I think my opponent just hated me for that already. Moving around this 150 folks of yours would be a nuisance for me, and we will surely see lists with even higher numbers (like 30 gretchin added as a sixth troop to field the 9cp detachment). i hope the meta will lift up other strategies as well... (not to mention that I enjoy painting, but that is out of the line).

I have found that the pk is not mandatory on nobz in boyz blobs as they once were. I like how efficient and still Killy big choppa. That saves you 64 points! Plus the big choppa are more versatile.


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Snikrot is not worth it. Dakka jets are super efficient. Throw in two, some kommandos maybe an extra banner nob for coverage. Dread will get rocked by any anti armor as he would be your only armor.

PKs on sergeant nobs are a big waste of points. They can't trash vehicles on their own like they used to and squads that can take mass PKs can take killsaws. D3 damage for 25 points is BS.

And thank you Jid for reminding people that bikes are a shooting unit. It's been the case since at least 5th, not sure why everyone forgot.

So we should have them move and shoot, avoiding assault? Is that really the best way to utilize them? Maybe move and shoot, charging a weakened unit?

I got alot of bikers and meganobz and would hope to make them work. Removing some arms from the meganobz and replacing them with killsawz so i got atlest 5 of those bad boyz. So if someone gets meganobz to work let me know.

I was so eager when i heard stromboyz maybe be worth something so i bought Zagstruk with the index book. I overestimated him a bit and charged a bloodthirster, didn't work out. Do you guys think it's worth to buy some stormboyz? I thinking atleast 20. Got 10 so far.

Stormboyz are great. Haven't tried Zag but he looks ok.

So!
here is my first 1500 list. Im pretty set on it; I want to try and squeeze a brigade into 1500 with walkers...
My theory is; that Orks will do well by weakening the enemy rather than outright killing units 1 at a time. To this effect my general tactic is going to be to use the majority of my CP up within the first couple turns; aiming to take big vehicles down to their lower stats.

So as the game continues dem humies may not realize it, but dey alredy ded

Here's my list;


So in order to minimize drops I will start all of the IC's inside the gorka. With that I have 9 drops. Which may still be too many to guarantee first turn against some lists. I have yet to find out. Starategy will be to teleport the grots in front of my giant ball of walker mash to screen, while the grot tanks basically suicide with their KMB's and fire into everything they can. The Meka provides the KFF save and the 3 meks sit in the centre of all the walkers repairing whatever they can. I couldnt quite fit as many kanz as I liked, the gorka is more expensive than i iniitally thought with all its guns. Grot tanks seem greatly costed. 120 for a 4 squad seems pretty great. we will see.

I dont believe I missed any points costings (god damn index stuff is so annoying to cost - im at work and cant use battlescribe).

The Klaw is a bit to expensive for boss nobs, the Big Choppa is way more point-efficient. The Klaw should be reserved for models with at least 4 base attacks or WS2+. My Warbosses has had their klaws returned to them.




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 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

Edit: I just realized that the BW with supa shoota has Bs4 which is similar to that of 5+ with re-rolls.

What? Where are you reading this?


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 koooaei wrote:
Stormboyz are great. Haven't tried Zag but he looks ok.

How are you using them? As objective grabbing minimum-squads?

Can you get first turn assault with them?


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Solar Shock wrote:


So in order to minimize drops I will start all of the IC's inside the gorka. With that I have 9 drops. Which may still be too many to guarantee first turn against some lists. I have yet to find out. Starategy will be to teleport the grots in front of my giant ball of walker mash to screen, while the grot tanks basically suicide with their KMB's and fire into everything they can. The Meka provides the KFF save and the 3 meks sit in the centre of all the walkers repairing whatever they can. I couldnt quite fit as many kanz as I liked, the gorka is more expensive than i iniitally thought with all its guns. Grot tanks seem greatly costed. 120 for a 4 squad seems pretty great. we will see.

Grot tanks and kans have leadership issues, and you can only use the same stratagem once in each phase.

I really don't understand your list. The grots are supposed to screen your walkers against what? Being assaulted? Your walkers are a lot better in a fight than the grots, maybe you should have your walkers screening your grots instead. Or better yet, don't take any grots. They are awful and they suck and they are just not good at anything.

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 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

Edit: I just realized that the BW with supa shoota has Bs4 which is similar to that of 5+ with re-rolls.

What? Where are you reading this?

Arghhh. I'm a moron. I was looking back and forth at the kill tank which does have bs4 and got confused. I still think the kill tank with bursta kannon and a unit inside would be intesting. I'd rather pay the points and get something useful and fun.

If a Dakkajet fires all its shots at the same target, it gets +1 to its hit rolls, so it's kinda like BS4...

 Slaktur wrote:
I got alot of bikers and meganobz and would hope to make them work. Removing some arms from the meganobz and replacing them with killsawz so i got atlest 5 of those bad boyz. So if someone gets meganobz to work let me know.

I was so eager when i heard stromboyz maybe be worth something so i bought Zagstruk with the index book. I overestimated him a bit and charged a bloodthirster, didn't work out. Do you guys think it's worth to buy some stormboyz? I thinking atleast 20. Got 10 so far.

lol that's awesome ya zagstruk is a bit expensive for a semi durable stormboy w a 2 hit pk. He does put out a bunch of str6 choppa hits which is nice. And He's decent in a list with several units of stormboys because he makes them all fearless and forces your opponent to kill everyone. And is a decent overwatch eating target.

I like stormboys however in practice they aren't doing what I hoped. I was looking for first turn charges and some anti air but unless my oppponent comes towards me my stormboys are taking at least 2 turns to enter assault. 12" movement 3-4advance and I'm still usually 9+ inches out for a charge attempt. And I find anything outside of 9" is to far an attempt. However I do like the fact stormboys are great at jumping from cover to cover gaining that extra +1 cover. Zag especially becomes decent at eating overwatch with his 3+ sv and 5+ fnp and 6 wounds. In this way I've been having decent success w msu stormboys w nobs w BC. But they still aren't performing as well as my basic boy blobs sooo I dunno. I'm still going to play with them because they are fun and decent and I'll get bored playing more then 120 boys in a list.

I really want to try the mekadread but I'll be buying the mega dread model to use for it cause it looks awesome and I'd love to see someone's result playing the big trakk w supa scorcha but I'll probably never buy the model.

Grot tanks and kans have leadership issues, and you can only use the same stratagem once in each phase.

I really don't understand your list. The grots are supposed to screen your walkers against what? Being assaulted? Your walkers are a lot better in a fight than the grots, maybe you should have your walkers screening your grots instead. Or better yet, don't take any grots. They are awful and they suck and they are just not good at anything.

Yes I can only use each stratagem once per phase, but i feel like there will be plenty of chances to use them.

Well considering being assaulted means striking second. If i go first, I move, advance and cant charge (I feel like the odds of getting a first turn charge aren't going to be high). I leave myself open to being assaulted first. Which means even with a counter-strike strat, I am going to probably lose a couple kanz before I can strike (if im facing an assault army, or I am going to get tied up if a shooty list throws a chaff unit at me), which is quite a lot of points and attacks lost.

By having cheap grots I have a few things when combined with the weirdboy;

I have a 10 man unit I can teleport onto objectives if I need to get an objective for maelstrom points

I have a unit I can teleport into a conga line to soak a charge - Also, if they assault a grot unit, wipe it, and consolidate into combat..... they cant strike me. I get to strike them. So basically a 30 point grot unit becomes a Counter-strike stratagem on steroids. If they dont consolidate, they get shot and charged on the following turn

A unit i can teleport to conga line and block a flank

A unit I can teleport and assault stuff with to tie it up

Basically I give myself options dependent on what I need at the time. I could drop the grots and the brigade and go full kanz wall. But that limits my playstyle to one. kanz rush. I don't like relying on a one-trick. Im not exactly going to be facing GT level opponents, they are likely to have something strong, but were not talking 3x stormravens in my meta. And finally, almost no one seems to have even tried grots. All they've done is math hammer and decided they suck. Sure the AM conscripts are better in almost all respects. But conscripts cant be teleported at will. Before everyone was math hammering and saying deffcoptas with rokkits is the best way forward, but after reading like 2-3 battle reports most people have said that either they died instantly or that they were too many points for what they did and are now looking at KMB and BS versions. I just like to keep my opponents on their toes and play funky lists with weird styles