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For armies on foot I'd say that there are two approaches to squad size: 30 man squads to get the green tide buff, or 10 man squads to get as many free Nobz as possible. For transports you generally go for whatever size you can fit in next to your characters and specialists.

 koooaei wrote:
The current win/loss ratio statistics gathered from dakka doesn't look that great for orks.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730601.page

Orks - 53W 74L

To cut a long story short, we're bottom tier only above tau but will be on the last place after the uptade with an influx of tau wins that have been reported but haven't been accounted yet.

So what we can probably deduce is;

That Ork competitive (horde and highly specialised lists seem to have a decent competitive chance)

Ork *fun* lists are of a lower standard compared to other factions

Thats a shame, as I fall primarily into the fun catagory and like to take units I like. Well i'm no stranger to challenges! Let the WAAAAAGGGHHH Commence!

That's not a bad thing for tourneys to be considered the worst army and than bringing somehting FACESMASHING and suddenly win everyone. In 7-th it was greentide and bully boyz. It can be...anything in 8-th - we don't know yet. Underdog wins are the sweetest.

 koooaei wrote:
That's not a bad thing for tourneys to be considered the worst army and than bringing somehting FACESMASHING and suddenly win everyone. In 7-th it was greentide and bully boyz. It can be...anything in 8-th - we don't know yet. Underdog wins are the sweetest.

Exactly. Once you're top dog everyone builds around you, while being the relative unknown/underdog gives you a surprise advantage in people not preparing their lists for your army in mind. Thankfully, it also seems like the powergap isn't quite as severe as in 7th ed and so even if we aren't on the higher end of the power scale we still have some chance of winning compared to before.

I am just happy to be rid of riptidespam, wraithknights and invisibility deathballs.

 Grimskul wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
That's not a bad thing for tourneys to be considered the worst army and than bringing somehting FACESMASHING and suddenly win everyone. In 7-th it was greentide and bully boyz. It can be...anything in 8-th - we don't know yet. Underdog wins are the sweetest.

Exactly. Once you're top dog everyone builds around you, while being the relative unknown/underdog gives you a surprise advantage in people not preparing their lists for your army in mind. Thankfully, it also seems like the powergap isn't quite as severe as in 7th ed and so even if we aren't on the higher end of the power scale we still have some chance of winning compared to before.

This and this ^^

Had a 7e campaign thingy, had to put what faction we were primarily playing. My second game was against a dude running CSM (a dude who on my first actual game of 40k changed his list to counter mine after I told him i had orksyeh that guy) .
Well to that campaign I brought Orks with Necron Allies. Wraith formation, 2 warrior blobs, lobbas, lootas and bikers.

He conceded turn 2
When aren't we the underdogs!

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Are kombi-skorchas worth giving to Nobz? I feel like they could output quite a lot of shooting, but may hinder them getting into combat.

LMAO, I called the Tau rebounding as well

And in my opinion, don't waste the points giving nobz ranged weapons. the skorcha is nice but if you are close enough to use it that means you are in charge range and don't want to give him an easy way to dodge that charge by increasing the range by 2-4 inches.

SemperMortis wrote:
And in my opinion, don't waste the points giving nobz ranged weapons. the skorcha is nice but if you are close enough to use it that means you are in charge range and don't want to give him an easy way to dodge that charge by increasing the range by 2-4 inches.

Still usefull vs elite targets which is the stuff you want to get your nobs in CC with.
If you kill 3 guys of that terminator squad and need 1-2" more for charging it`s ok.

And in heat of the battle there is always a good chance to shoot one target and charge another - especially when you move wisely and disembark from a transporter.

And finally you autohit even when advancing.


KFF is still really good.
9" plus you get some protection from that bloody first strike - which is a tough one in 8th edition.

Azhday wrote:
And do you think they will make something for the Freebooterz? Those klanless Flash Gitz are really bothering me, it seems as though GW will ignore our space pirates...

I hope they do something with Freebooters. I kind of have mixed feelings on Flash Gitz, though. I really like the pirate look, and I can appreciate that Flash Gitz often become Freebooters because they are rich enough to do so. The thing that bothers me a bit is that Flash Gitz are also billed as being very frequently a Bad Moons unit, but then they can't have the Bad Moons keyword. It's just kind of weird. It would be kind of like the fluff talking about Snakebites breeding the biggest squigs, and then Squiggoths being considered a Feral Orks unit that can't get a Snakebites clan keyword.

I've got ten more Flash Gitz on the way, which will give me twenty total. I'm going to try to do about half as extra-piratey Freebooters and about half as not-piratey Bad Moons. They have absolutely incredible firepower, but they pay for it in high points cost and getting them to where they can take full advantage of it seems like it will be challenging.

 koooaei wrote:
The current win/loss ratio statistics gathered from dakka doesn't look that great for orks.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/730601.page

Orks - 53W 74L

To cut a long story short, we're bottom tier only above tau but will be on the last place after the uptade with an influx of tau wins that have been reported but haven't been accounted yet.

I'm not at all worried. If you remember, the orks scored abysmally in the first week, and the current numbers reflect that. If we just look at the last 75 games or so, i think our win rate is over 50%.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

Azhday wrote:
And do you think they will make something for the Freebooterz? Those klanless Flash Gitz are really bothering me, it seems as though GW will ignore our space pirates...

I hope they do something with Freebooters. I kind of have mixed feelings on Flash Gitz, though. I really like the pirate look, and I can appreciate that Flash Gitz often become Freebooters because they are rich enough to do so. The thing that bothers me a bit is that Flash Gitz are also billed as being very frequently a Bad Moons unit, but then they can't have the Bad Moons keyword. It's just kind of weird. It would be kind of like the fluff talking about Snakebites breeding the biggest squigs, and then Squiggoths being considered a Feral Orks unit that can't get a Snakebites clan keyword.

I've got ten more Flash Gitz on the way, which will give me twenty total. I'm going to try to do about half as extra-piratey Freebooters and about half as not-piratey Bad Moons. They have absolutely incredible firepower, but they pay for it in high points cost and getting them to where they can take full advantage of it seems like it will be challenging.

Battle wagon or Wyrdboy are solid ways to get them where you need them.
Sure on the move they get BS of 5+ but you can still give them a load of ammorunts which will boost their output and make them much more durable.
To bad Badrukk can`t boost them inside a battlewagon even if he`s on board.


Freeboters as single clan would be nice.
With all the fancy chapter tactics i hope for some good ork stuff.

 Grotrebel wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
And in my opinion, don't waste the points giving nobz ranged weapons. the skorcha is nice but if you are close enough to use it that means you are in charge range and don't want to give him an easy way to dodge that charge by increasing the range by 2-4 inches.

Still usefull vs elite targets which is the stuff you want to get your nobs in CC with.
If you kill 3 guys of that terminator squad and need 1-2" more for charging it`s ok.
And in heat of the battle there is always a good chance to shoot one target and charge another - especially when you move wisely and disembark from a transporter.
And finally you autohit even when advancing.

So basically what I was thinking;
2-3 Bigtrakks with supa-skorchas (transport cap at 6) = roughly 600-700 points depending on loadout

Initially I was going to put Ghazz, banner, weirdboy, mek in 1. Then load the others with either kommandos or burna boyz; as both have access to burnas. This way I have 3 Vehicles that can move 14" a turn and output plenty of autohitting dakka. But the way I see it, 1 nob with K-skorcha and BC = about 3 burnas points wise. But im not sure about the difference in Damage output.

6 burna's have 6x D3 Str 4 shots, that work great shooting from the vehicle and in overwatch. Then when disembarked, with Ghazz buff, on the charge they have 3 attacks each which are Str4 AP-2, which seems pretty pokey hitting on 2s with the banner nob.

Kommando's have something similar, but have a few more chaff boyz for eating wounds for less damage output and are the cheapest options at 47 points for a min squad.

Nobz however, looking about 45 points each for; D6 Str5 AP-1 Shooting, with 4 attacks at Str 7 AP-2 D2 BigChoppas for CC hitting on 2s with Ghazz and Banner.

So Nobz are far more pricey, and at transport cap 6 I can only squeeze in 1 ammo runt, making them more vunerable, but i feel like the Skorcha is going to put in some serious work. As mentioned I can technically shoot another unit if im in range, or I can soften up a elite unit. Although if I go with the burnas/kommandos I can squeeze in a Meka-dred for the KFF to support my flaming mech spam.

The list:

Big meks with 2 kombi-skorchas
Burnas
Nobz with kombi-skorchas
Meganobz with kombi-skorchas
Killa Kanz with skorchas
Deff dreads with two skorchas
Skorchas (buggies)
Supaskorcha trakks
Burna Bombers with skorcha missiles
...
Arch Arsonist, iz dat yu?

I can sense those sweet sweet promethium fumes right now.

For people who say don't take range weapons on nobs. You do realize the nob unit gets an ammo runt which grants a reroll. You can take 2 rokkits launchas and basically have a mini tank busta unit vs all unit types.

Personally I was kinda peeved mega nobs didn't get an ammo runt option since thier box actually has a model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Solar Shock wrote:

 Grotrebel wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
And in my opinion, don't waste the points giving nobz ranged weapons. the skorcha is nice but if you are close enough to use it that means you are in charge range and don't want to give him an easy way to dodge that charge by increasing the range by 2-4 inches.

Still usefull vs elite targets which is the stuff you want to get your nobs in CC with.
If you kill 3 guys of that terminator squad and need 1-2" more for charging it`s ok.
And in heat of the battle there is always a good chance to shoot one target and charge another - especially when you move wisely and disembark from a transporter.
And finally you autohit even when advancing.

So basically what I was thinking;
2-3 Bigtrakks with supa-skorchas (transport cap at 6) = roughly 600-700 points depending on loadout

Initially I was going to put Ghazz, banner, weirdboy, mek in 1. Then load the others with either kommandos or burna boyz; as both have access to burnas. This way I have 3 Vehicles that can move 14" a turn and output plenty of autohitting dakka. But the way I see it, 1 nob with K-skorcha and BC = about 3 burnas points wise. But im not sure about the difference in Damage output.

6 burna's have 6x D3 Str 4 shots, that work great shooting from the vehicle and in overwatch. Then when disembarked, with Ghazz buff, on the charge they have 3 attacks each which are Str4 AP-2, which seems pretty pokey hitting on 2s with the banner nob.

Kommando's have something similar, but have a few more chaff boyz for eating wounds for less damage output and are the cheapest options at 47 points for a min squad.

Nobz however, looking about 45 points each for; D6 Str5 AP-1 Shooting, with 4 attacks at Str 7 AP-2 D2 BigChoppas for CC hitting on 2s with Ghazz and Banner.

So Nobz are far more pricey, and at transport cap 6 I can only squeeze in 1 ammo runt, making them more vunerable, but i feel like the Skorcha is going to put in some serious work. As mentioned I can technically shoot another unit if im in range, or I can soften up a elite unit. Although if I go with the burnas/kommandos I can squeeze in a Meka-dred for the KFF to support my flaming mech spam.

I wouldn't buy models around the big trakk w supa skorcha yet. I'm hoping the mega dread retains the supa skorcha it had and allows us to take double supa skorchas and the mega charga. Even at 260-270pts that's a huge threat range.

They should have ammorunts anyway to take some LasCa hits or just absorb damage.
Unless you max out the transport capacity if they get a wagon or trukk.

Do you think Zhardsnark will become much more difficult to use (especially with walkers/gunz ) when the ork codex comes out and Evil Sunz Klan becomes more restrictive?

Bigdoza wrote:
Do you think Zhardsnark will become much more difficult to use (especially with walkers/gunz ) when the ork codex comes out and Evil Sunz Klan becomes more restrictive?

No because Waagh is cross faction, breaking heads isn't a huge deal. He will either lose out or gain on chapter tactics but he is only really taken because he is an affordable reliable pk and with the speed to get the pk where uou need it. He's the best anti tank we got point for point. There is currently no restriction taking multiple clans per detachment. For instance mad doc is deathskull and works w every ork buff except waaagj banner from different clans. Now buzz grob will be annoying because he can only repair goff vehicles. He also better come with a free kff because he is horribly overpriced for a big mek w big choppa and 2 grots

After the Space Marine Codex release i`m pretty sure we can see what direction GW is going with chapters / clans.

Every <clan> 1 specific rule and additional warlord traits / strategems which will unlock additional abilities - both in general and specific ones for the clans.

Then we will get some stuff like red paint job back.

Wonder if Freebooterz will get their own rules or will be compensated of not having rules by being cheap (since they're technically a mish-mash of clans).

How do burnas compare to nobs in melee?

gungo wrote:
For people who say don't take range weapons on nobs. You do realize the nob unit gets an ammo runt which grants a reroll. You can take 2 rokkits launchas and basically have a mini tank busta unit vs all unit types.

I think the nob discussion generally was referring to boss nobs, which can't take runts.

 Grotrebel wrote:
After the Space Marine Codex release i`m pretty sure we can see what direction GW is going with chapters / clans.

Every <clan> 1 specific rule and additional warlord traits / strategems which will unlock additional abilities - both in general and specific ones for the clans.

Then we will get some stuff like red paint job back.

not to continue my trend of being a negative nancy, but I have doubts GW will give us something nice and shiny like Klan Tactics without giving us some massive nerf or downside to offset the bonus. (Lootas get D3+3 shots EACH!, but you kill yourself on rolls of 1 to hit.)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

gungo wrote:
For people who say don't take range weapons on nobs. You do realize the nob unit gets an ammo runt which grants a reroll. You can take 2 rokkits launchas and basically have a mini tank busta unit vs all unit types.

I think the nob discussion generally was referring to boss nobs, which can't take runts.

That is what I was talking about in reference to not taking a ranged weapon.

Clan tactics I'd like to see
Evilsun- advance +2 and can fall back and charge
Goff- +1 str on charge
Bad moon- infantry units get 1 ammo runt
Snakebite- 6+ fnp or +1 doc tools.
Blood axe- -1 to hit in cover or +1 cover save even in open ground.
Deathskull- reroll 1s to wound

Freebooter- it's really clanless but wouldn't mind something because this will only make flashgitz even worse without anything.

gungo wrote:
Clan tactics I'd like to see
Evilsun- advance +2 and can fall back and charge
Goff- +1 str on charge
Bad moon- units get 1 ammo runt
Snakebite- 6+ fnp
Blood axe- +1 cover save
Deathskull- reroll 1s to wound

Freebooter- it's really clanless but wouldn't mind something

I'd LOVE the +1 cover save for blood axes...but I would assume they would make it like kommandos where it's +1 only if you already had cover, which is very, very hard for 30-boy blobs to get. Mostly likely it'll be that, which effectively means Blood Axes get nothing. Sad face.

 JimOnMars wrote:

gungo wrote:
Clan tactics I'd like to see
Evilsun- advance +2 and can fall back and charge
Goff- +1 str on charge
Bad moon- units get 1 ammo runt
Snakebite- 6+ fnp
Blood axe- +1 cover save
Deathskull- reroll 1s to wound

Freebooter- it's really clanless but wouldn't mind something

I'd LOVE the +1 cover save for blood axes...but I would assume they would make it like kommandos where it's +1 only if you already had cover, which is very, very hard for 30-boy blobs to get. Mostly likely it'll be that, which effectively means Blood Axes get nothing. Sad face.

it can be like ravengaurd -1 to hit outside 12in but I rather have -1 to hit in cover. It's at least helpful for small infantry units in terrain. Like 5-10 man kommandos units.

Remember nothing this edition limits you from taking multiple clans in a detachment. Only character buffs most of which work on all orks or easily bypassed w special characters like mad doc works on all. So maybe your boy blobs are goff and your bikes and buggies are evil sun and your mek guns are badmoon and your lootas are deathskulls. Everything mostly works together fine. Just don't take a waaagh banner or try to use a mek to repair a nonclan vehicle or basic painboy to heal (maddoc is fine)

Cover save is pretty irrelevant for kommandoes. You either don't get it at all cause you're trying to charge something - and there's generally no cover left near the opponent - he has allready occupied it - or you intentionally avoid deploying in cover to not get -2 to your charge distance.
All good it usually does is add a tiiiiny bit of durability when you want to just grab a remote object.

Bad Moons may get 4+ armour.

gungo wrote:
I wouldn't buy models around the big trakk w supa skorcha yet. I'm hoping the mega dread retains the supa skorcha it had and allows us to take double supa skorchas and the mega charga. Even at 260-270pts that's a huge threat range.

Firstly, we don't even know if the mega dread will be coming back (unless I missed something?)

Secondly, Thats just wishlisting

Personally I would prefer to build a list around a unit I have an actual datasheet for, that I can use and that I have. So please dont tell me to wait for a hypothetical unicorn
Im leaning towards burna boyz, I feel the Ghazz buff could actually make them a decent murder unit. The AP of the burna means they could (on the charge) deal decent damage against elite units with weight of attacks. I can then stick a mek in each bigtrakk for the repairs.

koooaei wrote:Cover save is pretty irrelevant for kommandoes. You either don't get it at all cause you're trying to charge something - and there's generally no cover left near the opponent - he has allready occupied it - or you intentionally avoid deploying in cover to not get -2 to your charge distance.
All good it usually does is add a tiiiiny bit of durability when you want to just grab a remote object.

Yeh this is the real issue. Great for camping on an objective miles away, but there's almost on use for the cover save when trying to get into combat.
Maybe the Klan tactic could be that they get a bonus to charges into cover

 Smushed wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:
Wonder if trukk orks is still viable. Just use nobz instead of boyz.

I've been thinking of this for a while. Get a full group of Nobz (slugga choppa or Big choppa) add 1x Warboss and 1x Painboy (or Banner). When the trukk blows you lose 2 nobz on average. Not sure how the points stack up as you're putting 295 points into a trukk and charging it as fast as you can. The Nobz are 170 points + warboss 85 + Painboy 40. Haven't had a chance to try it out but it's on my list.

I have Done Just this with ghazzy instead of warboss, did wonders. killed 1 ghostkeel and accompanied stealth drones, then the next turn charge into the back ranks of breachers/firewarriors killing them all. He did very well as did the nobs all equiped with BC. very choppy.

Painboy has to buy a klaw or a saw.