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 Grotrebel wrote:
Normally i would go for a pair of rokkits but that sweet 48" of the giga shoota does not really pair well with it.

I`m working on scratchbuilding a killtank and will absolutely go for the giga shoota.
Think i gonna have to magnetise the weapons. Or simply go for the rule of cool und just give it all the weapons i can get. You can always say the unused ones are part of the giga shoota.

If i am not mistaken the killtank, otherwise than the battle waggon, has not been FAQ`d (yet) and still gives his passengers the mobile fortress rule because of the hang on rule?
Which means he can move and lootas inside can still hit on 6+?
But i think other modifiers still overrule the vixed value of 6+ to hit so shooting on flyers would make it a 7+, correct?

Well... they can only ever hit on a 6+ at best, but I never considered modifiers. I thought Mobile Fortress was ruled as not applying to the unit inside the tank, so if the tank moves then units inside would get a +1 modifier and 7+ for Orks... Making kill tanks (and battlewagons) really bad transports. Still ok for tanks though. I might be wrong, I can't remember where I read that.

How come you choose the gigashoota? Seems opinions are split as to which weapon is better, the gigashoota or the bursta cannon.

Gigashoota:
6-36 shots
3-18 hits
2-12 wounds
1-6 dead space marines
0.5 - 3 damage off a rhino

Bursta Kannon:
2-12 shots
1-6 hits.
0.8 - 5 wounds
0.8 - 5 dead space marines
1.3 - 8 damage off a rhino


So the Giga shoota is marginally better at killing marines, but is significantly worse against vehicles. Against hordes the giga shoota becomes noticeably better than the Bursta though, but does Orks need any more anti-horde abilities?

morfydd wrote:
Looking at some interesting loadouts for my Kill Tank ..
One ..Bursta + 3x twin linked Big Shootas (Heavy Duty AT + a Punisher Cannon eq) ( I am leaning heavy to this one)

Two ..Twin Ass Can eq +a punisher cannon equive ( so many bullets)

Originally I thought rokkit Racks But the cost vs return ( average 3 damge per turn for the pair seemed meh)

Cant see wasting Skorchas on this with its BS 4+ as oppsed to BS 5+

Bah I was looking at battlescribe ..and for the killtank the data is wrong sooo
Bursta Kannon + two rokkit racks+ram+Grot Rigger = 320 points
Swapping the racks for twin big shootas = 292 points ..yep since this is an anti tank rig for me rokkit racks it is I guess

Niiru wrote:

Well... they can only ever hit on a 6+ at best, but I never considered modifiers. I thought Mobile Fortress was ruled as not applying to the unit inside the tank, so if the tank moves then units inside would get a +1 modifier and 7+ for Orks... Making kill tanks (and battlewagons) really bad transports. Still ok for tanks though. I might be wrong, I can't remember where I read that.

How come you choose the gigashoota? Seems opinions are split as to which weapon is better, the gigashoota or the bursta cannon.

Gigashoota:
6-36 shots
3-18 hits
2-12 wounds
1-6 dead space marines
0.5 - 3 damage off a rhino

Bursta Kannon:
2-12 shots
1-6 hits.
0.8 - 5 wounds
0.8 - 5 dead space marines
1.3 - 8 damage off a rhino


So the Giga shoota is marginally better at killing marines, but is significantly worse against vehicles. Against hordes the giga shoota becomes noticeably better than the Bursta though, but does Orks need any more anti-horde abilities?

You are right, it was ruled as not applying to passengers for the battle waggon in the index errata.
Not sure if it`s intentional for the killtank or not. It`s a lot more expensive and already degrades shooting to 6+ so it would kinda make sense to let it apply to passengers on the killtank.
Had a look in the errata and at least shooting with other modifiers does not work:

Q: If an ability instructs me to resolve an attack with a different characteristic (e.g. a Culexus Assassin’s Etherium ability) does this happen before or after any other modifiers that also apply to that characteristic (e.g. the Drukhari Serpentin Combat Drug)?
A: When resolving such an attack, change the relevant characteristic to the new value before applying any modifiers to that new value.

So moving the killtank would not modify the 6+ to hit as long as they don`t FAQ this.
But shooting on flyers for example would still modify it to a 7+.

Main reason for the giga shoota is that i wanna scratch the killtank by myself and make it look like a giant battleship on wheels.
And i want guns. A lot of guns. So basicly i will put as many on it as i can and play it as the giga shoota which is nothing but a lot of single guns.
True with the bursta which would probably improve my AT capabilities.

Bah I was looking at battlescribe ..and for the killtank the data is wrong sooo
Bursta Kannon + two rokkit racks+ram+Grot Rigger = 320 points
Swapping the racks for twin big shootas = 292 points ..yep since this is an anti tank rig for me rokkit racks it is I guess

Well i don`t really care about that 28 extra points but the 24" means i need to play a lot more aggressive. Twin big shootas are 36" at least.
With the 36" bursta cannon i would not think about it twice and just go for the rokkits.

 Grotrebel wrote:

Q: If an ability instructs me to resolve an attack with a different characteristic (e.g. a Culexus Assassin’s Etherium ability) does this happen before or after any other modifiers that also apply to that characteristic (e.g. the Drukhari Serpentin Combat Drug)?
A: When resolving such an attack, change the relevant characteristic to the new value before applying any modifiers to that new value.

So moving the killtank would not modify the 6+ to hit as long as they don`t FAQ this.
But shooting on flyers for example would still modify it to a 7+.

The way I read that is that you set your characteristic to it's new basic value before you apply any modifiers. So in the case of the kill tank, you would set the unit's BS to 6+, and then apply any modifiers, so +1 if the tank moved and +1 if enemy is a flyer. So you would be hitting flyers on an 8+.

I do agree that it would be easier to convert a gigashoota by just adding a bunch of small guns, but then you can do the same for the Bursta kannon as it is still 2-12 shots... just instead of lots of boltguns, you could use lots of lascannons and other big turrets.

I'm not sure I agree with gretchin being red. Their best use is taking 3 min squads of 10 to fill up the troop requirement for a second battalion detachment. That's 3 CP for 90 points, and it gets you 3 slots for more characters. They're also good as filling to prevent deep strikes. Three squads of 10 can stretch pretty far in the back so the boyz can be positioned up front. For anything else, yeah, they're garbage, but calling them a bad unit because they cost the same as one of the currently most abuseable unit in the game is a little unfair.

 Grotrebel wrote:

Main reason for the giga shoota is that i wanna scratch the killtank by myself and make it look like a giant battleship on wheels.
And i want guns. A lot of guns. So basicly i will put as many on it as i can and play it as the giga shoota which is nothing but a lot of single guns.
True with the bursta which would probably improve my AT capabilities.

Bah I was looking at battlescribe ..and for the killtank the data is wrong sooo
Bursta Kannon + two rokkit racks+ram+Grot Rigger = 320 points
Swapping the racks for twin big shootas = 292 points ..yep since this is an anti tank rig for me rokkit racks it is I guess

Well i don`t really care about that 28 extra points but the 24" means i need to play a lot more aggressive. Twin big shootas are 36" at least.
With the 36" bursta cannon i would not think about it twice and just go for the rokkits.

Aye understood ..so We see two solid builds for the kill Tank ..Hrmmn I am also doing scratchbuilds ..basing the main body off of the M-3 Lee/Grant (1/32nd scale) Lots of hacking and rearranging to be done yet ..using leftover skorcha rokkits as the basis for my rokkit racks..(and an attendant gnoblars) ..The grot rigger from the Battlewagon kit...an Ork Driver ..and one of the spotter gretchin from the mek gun kits as the main gunner ..Overall I think I have a good plan ..Scratchbuilt ram lotta rivets..
I also like the idea of the two twin Big shoota gunners and the Gigashooter.Thinking using a couple of the Longer super shootas from the flyer kit as the base surrounded by several other Gunz (suriken cannon, assault cannon , and whatever else i find ).so I will be doing one like that as well...by the time they are done hopefully we will have the datasheet for the Battlefortress...

Played both Tau and Space Marines yesterday; and took the G. Squiggoth for a spin. My whole army got shot off the table by turn 2 in both games...so that was a complete waste of time. GW must really hate Orks.

 Geemoney wrote:
Played both Tau and Space Marines yesterday; and took the G. Squiggoth for a spin. My whole army got shot off the table by turn 2 in both games...so that was a complete waste of time. GW must really hate Orks.

Just put half of your points into Boyz. Then the rest can be whatever you like, and you will probably do decently.

I just played another Tournament with my Kommandos list and I am convinced this is the best build for Orkz this edition. it functions almost exactly like a green tide list except the enemy never knows where you are going to hit hardest until it is too late. I refined the list a bit to give it more Anti-Tank options but otherwise its a carbon copy. My opponents told me point blank they hate this list with how hard it is to stop

SemperMortis wrote:
I just played another Tournament with my Kommandos list and I am convinced this is the best build for Orkz this edition. it functions almost exactly like a green tide list except the enemy never knows where you are going to hit hardest until it is too late. I refined the list a bit to give it more Anti-Tank options but otherwise its a carbon copy. My opponents told me point blank they hate this list with how hard it is to stop

Was that the list with 6x15 kommandos and 60 boyz?

Yeah, you need to bring 60-90 kommandos to consider them as the best built for orks.

I prefer 90 stormboyz to be honest but both builds have the same problem, no one really has that many kommandos or stormboyz.

Now you may proxy the kommandos by using boyz but it doesn't feel right IMHO, my kommandos are 12 heavily converted boyz, I wouldn't use regular boyz to increase their number. But if you're allowed to do so, no problem.

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah, you need to bring 60-90 kommandos to consider them as the best built for orks.

I prefer 90 stormboyz to be honest but both builds have the same problem, no one really has that many kommandos or stormboyz.

Now you may proxy the kommandos by using boyz but it doesn't feel right IMHO, my kommandos are 12 heavily converted boyz, I wouldn't use regular boyz to increase their number. But if you're allowed to do so, no problem.

This seems to be the best advice for Ork players: Pick a unit, any unit, and just spam it. I wonder if you could do this with, say, 100 lootas? Or 30 weirdboyz? Or 30 skorchas?

Gretchin spam to win tournaments xD

pismakron wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah, you need to bring 60-90 kommandos to consider them as the best built for orks.

I prefer 90 stormboyz to be honest but both builds have the same problem, no one really has that many kommandos or stormboyz.

Now you may proxy the kommandos by using boyz but it doesn't feel right IMHO, my kommandos are 12 heavily converted boyz, I wouldn't use regular boyz to increase their number. But if you're allowed to do so, no problem.

This seems to be the best advice for Ork players: Pick a unit, any unit, and just spam it. I wonder if you could do this with, say, 100 lootas? Or 30 weirdboyz? Or 30 skorchas?

100 lootas would be wiped by turn 3.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Gretchin spam to win tournaments xD

Well squig hounds basically negate their awful morale so they'd have some staying power compared to 7th. Still don't think it's a good idea but you could field 300 of these buggers for 900 points and only lose D3 to morale in each squad. They'd never be able to kill anything since all they have are laspistols, though.

pismakron wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah, you need to bring 60-90 kommandos to consider them as the best built for orks.

I prefer 90 stormboyz to be honest but both builds have the same problem, no one really has that many kommandos or stormboyz.

Now you may proxy the kommandos by using boyz but it doesn't feel right IMHO, my kommandos are 12 heavily converted boyz, I wouldn't use regular boyz to increase their number. But if you're allowed to do so, no problem.

This seems to be the best advice for Ork players: Pick a unit, any unit, and just spam it. I wonder if you could do this with, say, 100 lootas? Or 30 weirdboyz? Or 30 skorchas?

I was planning on spamming dakkajets until they nerfed flyers. Maybe it's still viable though.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Gretchin spam to win tournaments xD

I was picking up the models to try this out as a foil to Stormraven spam, and then GW solved the problem for us.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

pismakron wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Yeah, you need to bring 60-90 kommandos to consider them as the best built for orks.

I prefer 90 stormboyz to be honest but both builds have the same problem, no one really has that many kommandos or stormboyz.

Now you may proxy the kommandos by using boyz but it doesn't feel right IMHO, my kommandos are 12 heavily converted boyz, I wouldn't use regular boyz to increase their number. But if you're allowed to do so, no problem.

This seems to be the best advice for Ork players: Pick a unit, any unit, and just spam it. I wonder if you could do this with, say, 100 lootas? Or 30 weirdboyz? Or 30 skorchas?

I was planning on spamming dakkajets until they nerfed flyers. Maybe it's still viable though.

I have found three (which is spam to some) to be good fire support vs 1W problems, -1 AP is just enough to make even tough looking things fail a few saves, and Hard to Hit is a good low blow to all the 'reroll all the the things' type lists. In a 2k environment I am thinking about adding a Wazbom Blastajet for it's KFF and mediocre firepower. I have found my Dakkajets are vulnerable targets so a 5++ might help. If you are going to bring dakkajets, at least in this addition, try to bring a tankbusta-truck element protected by it's own Big Mek Biker with KFF as well. This was you get get that t6 10+ wound saturation that is too tough for enemy small arms and a semi inefficient waste of lascannon shots otherwise. Still, all your gunz should be aimed at high damage weaponz first.

@Jim - I brought 11 Lootas to a 1500 point game the other day and the unit wasn't shot off the table until turn six. I am sorry that you brought 100 and they were shot off the board by turn three. Ork law states that if you bring 111 Lootas next game they will make it until turn 66, try it.

Played my first ever game with Orks last night, was exactly as fun as I was expecting. Mass boyz rolling buckets of dice is what drew me back to 40k, just looks cool on the table.

I played vs a mates Grey Knight army and it was pretty brutal both ways. Thing that swung it though was his Stormraven - that pumps out so many shots it's ridiculous. I was able to charge it with about 16 Stormboyz on turn 4, only for them to bounce and do just 3 wounds. What's our go to unit for dealing with these things?

My other question is is it worth taking special weapons in boyz mobs? I was running 3 big shootas in both big boyz mobs but they seem fairly eh. Had a look in the OP but wasn't mentioned in the unit guide.

cheesedupree wrote:
Played my first ever game with Orks last night, was exactly as fun as I was expecting. Mass boyz rolling buckets of dice is what drew me back to 40k, just looks cool on the table.

I played vs a mates Grey Knight army and it was pretty brutal both ways. Thing that swung it though was his Stormraven - that pumps out so many shots it's ridiculous. I was able to charge it with about 16 Stormboyz on turn 4, only for them to bounce and do just 3 wounds. What's our go to unit for dealing with these things?

My other question is is it worth taking special weapons in boyz mobs? I was running 3 big shootas in both big boyz mobs but they seem fairly eh. Had a look in the OP but wasn't mentioned in the unit guide.

Try charging it with 64 storm boys next time, you'll likely do about 12 wounds then

That is certainly an expensive option $$ wise!

I've got it, teleport stormboys within 9". Make the charge and pile in, go base to base so it can't pivot.
It'll have to hover next turn and you'll be able to charge it with everything.

No thanks needed buddy, but you're welcome anyway.

The only weapon we have against stormravens is called Chapter Approved--and a giant price hike on the thing, and a cost reduction on our shooting.

Until then, just ignore it. Play maelstrom and get objectives.

L0adedDice wrote:
I've got it, teleport stormboys within 9". Make the charge and pile in, go base to base so it can't pivot.
It'll have to hover next turn and you'll be able to charge it with everything.

No thanks needed buddy, but you're welcome anyway.

Stormboyz cannot be jumped

cheesedupree wrote:


My other question is is it worth taking special weapons in boyz mobs? I was running 3 big shootas in both big boyz mobs but they seem fairly eh. Had a look in the OP but wasn't mentioned in the unit guide.

I've never equipped my boyz with special weapons, since they're not cheap and orks shooting is terrible. 3 big shootas, the cheapest option, is 18 points and if you have more than a mob (which you certainly do) spamming special weapons becomes very expensive. 3 rokkits are 36 points for some shots that don't do anything anyway. I always keep the boyz as cheap as possible, recently even cutting the pk in favor of the big choppa. Spare the points and field another unit.

 Jidmah wrote:

L0adedDice wrote:
I've got it, teleport stormboys within 9". Make the charge and pile in, go base to base so it can't pivot.
It'll have to hover next turn and you'll be able to charge it with everything.

No thanks needed buddy, but you're welcome anyway.

Stormboyz cannot be jumped

Why not? They are Ork Infantry. They have the Ork faction keyword and the infantry keyword, they just also have the jump pack keyword. Da Jump doesn't specify that the Infantry cannot have other keywords. If this were true you couldn't Jump characters, Gretchin, Boyz, etc.

cheesedupree wrote:
Played my first ever game with Orks last night, was exactly as fun as I was expecting. Mass boyz rolling buckets of dice is what drew me back to 40k, just looks cool on the table.

I played vs a mates Grey Knight army and it was pretty brutal both ways. Thing that swung it though was his Stormraven - that pumps out so many shots it's ridiculous. I was able to charge it with about 16 Stormboyz on turn 4, only for them to bounce and do just 3 wounds. What's our go to unit for dealing with these things?

My other question is is it worth taking special weapons in boyz mobs? I was running 3 big shootas in both big boyz mobs but they seem fairly eh. Had a look in the OP but wasn't mentioned in the unit guide.

There are situations where special weapons are worth it in boy mobs, but in general they are not worth it. In general you want to advance your boyz every turn.

Our go to strategy for dealing with stormravens is to ignore it, kill his ground troops, and secure objectives. It is surprisingly effective.

Regarding Stormboyz, I am thinking of running them in six small squads of five instead of a thirty man strong ork blob.
Since the Nobs are free, it is the same prize; you only have to pay for the extra Big Shoppas and they are easily worth the points. Using BOSS ZAGSTRUK to avoid losing to morale. He is a descent character so not so much points wasted there.
This gives the opponent a hard time, prioritize targets, most often either overkill or only killing some boyz, leaving the Nob.
One drawback is of course that you for sure will not go first, but you almost never do when playing orks anyway. Also maybe not optimal then playing kill-point mission.
Anyone that has tried to run the Stromboyz like this?

The idea with larger squads is to get fewer drops and to get easier access to buffs. Also, you're getting less damage vs aoe attacks like exploding vehicles. You could try smaller squads and see how it goes. Not sure that more nobz are enough to justify the loss of this benefits in larger games.

In theory though more small squads are slightly more durable to shooting, and morale (though this isn't a big deal). As there will be more wasted shots. With split fire this isn't as big an advantage as it used to be, but a squad of 30 will eat all the wounds it takes, 6 squads of 5 likely ignore a couple of wounds.

Another possible advantage could be filling out detachments (3 squads of 10 for instance fill out an outrider detachment, 1 squad of 30 needs 2 more choices, same is true if you are looking at a brigade.)

The biggest downside to going down to say 5 man squads is overwatch, it is far more likely that you will lose entire squads to overwatch when they are smaller, and if you are trying to charge 30 models into a single target, this could result in taking overwatch multiple times.