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It's a little more risky that way, just because of morale. And once you reach close combat, you'll only have a single round of overwatch to suffer, and you're more likely to be able to remove casualties from the squad (whether overwatch or their special rule) that might not've been able to get engaged. I tried MSU stormboyz, but ultimately the bigger blob just worked better for me in practice.

Question, in terms of fire support, which is the better unit to field, Lootas, Flash Gitz (without Badruck), or Mek Guns?

I would say Mek Guns because they are somewhat durable and fairly cheap (a KMK is ~3 lootas in cost) Both average about 2 hits. The KMK has better strength, damage output, and AP. It also has 6 T5 5+ save wounds (not counting grots, which are immune to targeting at range, which can help claim objectives if the gun dies.) vs 3 T4 6+ save wounds.

A single KMK is ~2 flash gits.in cost, and has better range, and durability.

Breng77 wrote:
I would say Mek Guns because they are somewhat durable and fairly cheap (a KMK is ~3 lootas in cost) Both average about 2 hits. The KMK has better strength, damage output, and AP. It also has 6 T5 5+ save wounds (not counting grots, which are immune to targeting at range, which can help claim objectives if the gun dies.) vs 3 T4 6+ save wounds.

A single KMK is ~2 flash gits.in cost, and has better range, and durability.

I've had a bit of success with lootas when fielding foot sloggers otherwise, due to target saturation.
Most anti-infantry weapons also tend to have short ranges and lootaz are slightly more resilient to deep strikers than mek gunz, though not much.

I just bought a really nice MAWB converted from an AoS Boss (with a freakin' assault cannon pegleg!), which now gives me a regular Warboss and a MAWB as my HQ options for the time being. Warboss WYSIWYG has a PK, MAWB WYSIWYG has a BC (a really, really big axe).

I plan on probably running both in my ~1000pt army. One would accompany Trukk Boyz and rush up the table with bikes and Stormboyz while the other will slog up with a full blob of 30 Boyz. Which Boss should go where, given their WYSIWYG cc loadouts?

Or, though I suspect the answer will be a resounding 'No', could/should I run this sufficiently large MAWB as Ghaz?

A stormraven completely facetanked 15 tankbustas and 5 shots from a Kill Tank with Kill Bursta last night.

How have people been dealing with flyers, or stormravens in particular? Not sure we have what it takes to shoot down a flyer.

Can imagine the stormboys in multiple small squads have a light advantage in maelstrom games to get victory points.
To bad they can`t deepstrike anymore.

As for the comparison of lootas, mek guns and flash gits it`s hard to tell.
Each has it`s pros and cons and it depends on the army list.
Overall they all are a bit expensive but since we have to deal with it for the moment let`s just take what we get.

Lootas have a nice range but even in cover die fast if the enemy gets some firepower into them.
You can put them in a vehicle, but that adds more point costs and the better the vehicle / protection, the more expensive it get`s.
Maybe an plasma obliterator but thats also almost 200 points but at least pulls out some nice S8 shots. Has even ork-BS, yay!
With rerolls they can put out a good load of S7 hits and with 48" you can place them very passive to avoid most of the enemy fire.


Mek guns have awesome models, fun rules and can camp on backyard objectives.
But without other stuff to shield them they have to be aware of deepstriking stuff.
At least the grot gunners are safe objective campers as long as there are guns around but that`s a job a barabones mek can also handle. (Which he did fine for me and the 20 points are no big deal) Plus normally he has something to repair around.


Flash gits are really cool but their battle waggon makes them also expensive. Footslogging they can get some protection from ammo runts but if you get in 24" they will get some fire.
Each way a KFF mek helps them a lot.
They do a decent job for me together with tankbustas in a battlewaggon.
Luckily they survive some time because my poor Gorkanaut gets most of the AT weapons before he sees any CC and get some shooting even after the waggon gets destroyed as well.
They were real beasts in my second to last game were my KFF saved each LasCa shot in the entiry game and waggon, tankbustas and flash gits killed 1/3 of my enemys army.
Perform great in blowing out marines in cover but that 6+ save is a real pain in the ass when waggon and ammorunts are gone.

I just bought a really nice MAWB converted from an AoS Boss (with a freakin' assault cannon pegleg!), which now gives me a regular Warboss and a MAWB as my HQ options for the time being. Warboss WYSIWYG has a PK, MAWB WYSIWYG has a BC (a really, really big axe).

I plan on probably running both in my ~1000pt army. One would accompany Trukk Boyz and rush up the table with bikes and Stormboyz while the other will slog up with a full blob of 30 Boyz. Which Boss should go where, given their WYSIWYG cc loadouts?

Or, though I suspect the answer will be a resounding 'No', could/should I run this sufficiently large MAWB as Ghaz?

Orruk megaboss?
Thats the one i used and that big choppa is real huge. Gave it to a bika nob and equipped himself with kombirokkits and claw.
Twice the points of my big choppa WB that gives the boys the same buff but at least he has twice the style as well.

Well, why not play it as Ghaz, if you use the same modell it`s larger than Ghaz.
Depends if you go on a WYSIWYG tournament with strict rules or just play some fun games in your lokal store / with buddies.
Sure you need both of them?
Cause there can only be one big boss as we all know.

 KommissarKiln wrote:
I just bought a really nice MAWB converted from an AoS Boss (with a freakin' assault cannon pegleg!), which now gives me a regular Warboss and a MAWB as my HQ options for the time being. Warboss WYSIWYG has a PK, MAWB WYSIWYG has a BC (a really, really big axe).

I plan on probably running both in my ~1000pt army. One would accompany Trukk Boyz and rush up the table with bikes and Stormboyz while the other will slog up with a full blob of 30 Boyz. Which Boss should go where, given their WYSIWYG cc loadouts?

Or, though I suspect the answer will be a resounding 'No', could/should I run this sufficiently large MAWB as Ghaz?

I would definitely run him as Ghaz! Much better than a vanilla MAWB in rules terms, more awesome looking, easily identifiable on the battlefield, and a legit GW model to boot! Any chance you can fit a weirdboy in to fling Ghaz do the front?

ajax_xaja wrote:
A stormraven completely facetanked 15 tankbustas and 5 shots from a Kill Tank with Kill Bursta last night.

How have people been dealing with flyers, or stormravens in particular? Not sure we have what it takes to shoot down a flyer.

I dont think alot of people realize how bad hit modifiers hurt orks. When a marine shoots a flyer they experience a 25% drop in hits (25% drop in total damage dealt), When orks shoot af flyers they experience a 50% drop in hits (50% drop in total damage dealt).

Flyers are significantly harder to kill while remaining points effective for many factions; Its pretty much impossible for orks. Most of the answers involve spamming heavy weapons or some other form of high damage output flyer, which orks really dont have. A single DakkaJet is equipped with what is essentially a (strictly worse) twin assault cannon. And it takes 84 Lootas worth of shots (478 pts worth over 3 turns) to shoot a Storm Raven.

There is no points efficient way to deal with flyers, you either ignore it which is hard to do given how much damage it deals or you can try to dump a ton of resources into it and pray you get lucky everywhere else.

Maybe Mek guns might be a better prospect but I doubt it.

ajax_xaja wrote:
A stormraven completely facetanked 15 tankbustas and 5 shots from a Kill Tank with Kill Bursta last night.

How have people been dealing with flyers, or stormravens in particular? Not sure we have what it takes to shoot down a flyer.

You ignore the flyer, kill his other stuff, and secure objectives. It is the only way, and it will win you the game more often than not. Shooting at a stormraven will loose you the game more often than not.

pismakron wrote:

ajax_xaja wrote:
A stormraven completely facetanked 15 tankbustas and 5 shots from a Kill Tank with Kill Bursta last night.

How have people been dealing with flyers, or stormravens in particular? Not sure we have what it takes to shoot down a flyer.

You ignore the flyer, kill his other stuff, and secure objectives. It is the only way, and it will win you the game more often than not. Shooting at a stormraven will loose you the game more often than not.

Yep, learned that the hard way. Ended up basically wasting a turn of shooting that would have been better off shot elsewhere.

How viable is ignoring a stormraven though? They've got huge amounts of dakka to put out, and can basically run the board. Seems like a bad move.

ajax_xaja wrote:

pismakron wrote:

ajax_xaja wrote:
A stormraven completely facetanked 15 tankbustas and 5 shots from a Kill Tank with Kill Bursta last night.

How have people been dealing with flyers, or stormravens in particular? Not sure we have what it takes to shoot down a flyer.

You ignore the flyer, kill his other stuff, and secure objectives. It is the only way, and it will win you the game more often than not. Shooting at a stormraven will loose you the game more often than not.

Yep, learned that the hard way. Ended up basically wasting a turn of shooting that would have been better off shot elsewhere.

How viable is ignoring a stormraven though? They've got huge amounts of dakka to put out, and can basically run the board. Seems like a bad move.

Unless you have around 30-35 tankbustas and go first it is the ONLY viable thing to do. Kill the rest of his army, secure objectives, win the game.

 Dr.Duck wrote:

ajax_xaja wrote:
A stormraven completely facetanked 15 tankbustas and 5 shots from a Kill Tank with Kill Bursta last night.

How have people been dealing with flyers, or stormravens in particular? Not sure we have what it takes to shoot down a flyer.

I dont think alot of people realize how bad hit modifiers hurt orks. When a marine shoots a flyer they experience a 25% drop in hits (25% drop in total damage dealt), When orks shoot af flyers they experience a 50% drop in hits (50% drop in total damage dealt).

Flyers are significantly harder to kill while remaining points effective for many factions; Its pretty much impossible for orks. Most of the answers involve spamming heavy weapons or some other form of high damage output flyer, which orks really dont have. A single DakkaJet is equipped with what is essentially a (strictly worse) twin assault cannon. And it takes 84 Lootas worth of shots (478 pts worth over 3 turns) to shoot a Storm Raven.

There is no points efficient way to deal with flyers, you either ignore it which is hard to do given how much damage it deals or you can try to dump a ton of resources into it and pray you get lucky everywhere else.

Maybe Mek guns might be a better prospect but I doubt it.

It's not only flyers, but now that gw is handling out "-1 to hit" like candy on many, many units, we lose half of our output. It is especially sad because our shooting units are not costed appropriately at BS5+, much, much less at BS6+.

The only solution I've come up with so far is to write GW and politely ask them to lower the cost of our shooting units. I DO think they are listening, but since they don't playtest ork shooting armies they probably don't know. Please write them!

You can easilly communicate with GW using facebook - if you have an acc. Actually, even i have participated in pointing out the understrength unit exploitation so they fixed it quickly. But than my fb acc got banned cause there was no photo, so, i'm cut off there =)

 koooaei wrote:
You can easilly communicate with GW using facebook - if you have an acc. Actually, even i have participated in pointing out the understrength unit exploitation so they fixed it quickly. But than my fb acc got banned cause there was no photo, so, i'm cut off there =)

Just put a photo on your profile. It doesn't have to be a picture of yourself. Take this guy: https://klimbim2014.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/stolypin-19082.jpg

So has anyone had any success running Squiggoth (small, not gargantuan)?

Is it worth sticking a big gun on them, given they mostly suffer a movement penalty?
I suppose the gun can shoot without penalty while locked in combat..

It's never worth sticking a big gun on anything right now. Unorky as it is.

 JimOnMars wrote:
It's not only flyers, but now that gw is handling out "-1 to hit" like candy on many, many units, we lose half of our output. It is especially sad because our shooting units are not costed appropriately at BS5+, much, much less at BS6+.

The only solution I've come up with so far is to write GW and politely ask them to lower the cost of our shooting units. I DO think they are listening, but since they don't playtest ork shooting armies they probably don't know. Please write them!

This. Last game I had a Ghostkeel dropping behind my walkers. There was no way to kill 10 wounds with a -2 hit modifier that could jump out of combat. So I simply had to ignore it and bear the three meltas jumping around me just barely out of charge range.
Luckily I got good rolls on my Big Mek' repair rolls so it didn't kill a lot.

At the very least we need a mek gun that hits on 4+ without any modifiers to handle stuff like this.

 grendel083 wrote:
So has anyone had any success running Squiggoth (small, not gargantuan)?

Is it worth sticking a big gun on them, given they mostly suffer a movement penalty?
I suppose the gun can shoot without penalty while locked in combat..

I believe you don't have a choice in the matter, they get a big gun stock.

Breng77 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
So has anyone had any success running Squiggoth (small, not gargantuan)?

Is it worth sticking a big gun on them, given they mostly suffer a movement penalty?
I suppose the gun can shoot without penalty while locked in combat..

I believe you don't have a choice in the matter, they get a big gun stock.

Correct, and they all cost about the same.

Breng77 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
So has anyone had any success running Squiggoth (small, not gargantuan)?

Is it worth sticking a big gun on them, given they mostly suffer a movement penalty?
I suppose the gun can shoot without penalty while locked in combat..

I believe you don't have a choice in the matter, they get a big gun stock.

The Squiggoth entry says it may take a big gun. Not that it must.

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Dr.Duck wrote:

ajax_xaja wrote:
A stormraven completely facetanked 15 tankbustas and 5 shots from a Kill Tank with Kill Bursta last night.

How have people been dealing with flyers, or stormravens in particular? Not sure we have what it takes to shoot down a flyer.

I dont think alot of people realize how bad hit modifiers hurt orks. When a marine shoots a flyer they experience a 25% drop in hits (25% drop in total damage dealt), When orks shoot af flyers they experience a 50% drop in hits (50% drop in total damage dealt).

Flyers are significantly harder to kill while remaining points effective for many factions; Its pretty much impossible for orks. Most of the answers involve spamming heavy weapons or some other form of high damage output flyer, which orks really dont have. A single DakkaJet is equipped with what is essentially a (strictly worse) twin assault cannon. And it takes 84 Lootas worth of shots (478 pts worth over 3 turns) to shoot a Storm Raven.

There is no points efficient way to deal with flyers, you either ignore it which is hard to do given how much damage it deals or you can try to dump a ton of resources into it and pray you get lucky everywhere else.

Maybe Mek guns might be a better prospect but I doubt it.

It's not only flyers, but now that gw is handling out "-1 to hit" like candy on many, many units, we lose half of our output. It is especially sad because our shooting units are not costed appropriately at BS5+, much, much less at BS6+.

The only solution I've come up with so far is to write GW and politely ask them to lower the cost of our shooting units. I DO think they are listening, but since they don't playtest ork shooting armies they probably don't know. Please write them!

Ugh, I hate that there's no real space for "shooty" ork armies at the moment. I'm really starting to feel the gap between codex armies and orks, since the majority of my meta is currently on the primaris/death guard/chaos train. Really don't want to have to buy into huge swathes of stormboyz or boyz until the codex/chapter approved drop.

1 thing I am hoping;

Last time our dex dropped first and we got shafted...
at least this time we will be one of the "newer" dexes, so hopefully we get all the sweet sweet improvements

Hang in der Boyz! Da Mekz ar comin' an dey ben buildin' sumting big'n'stompy!

SemperMortis wrote:
I just played another Tournament with my Kommandos list and I am convinced this is the best build for Orkz this edition. it functions almost exactly like a green tide list except the enemy never knows where you are going to hit hardest until it is too late. I refined the list a bit to give it more Anti-Tank options but otherwise its a carbon copy. My opponents told me point blank they hate this list with how hard it is to stop

How many kommandos are you running?

 grendel083 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
So has anyone had any success running Squiggoth (small, not gargantuan)?

Is it worth sticking a big gun on them, given they mostly suffer a movement penalty?
I suppose the gun can shoot without penalty while locked in combat..

I believe you don't have a choice in the matter, they get a big gun stock.

The Squiggoth entry says it may take a big gun. Not that it must.

Then you should definitely NOT take a gun on it. Remember you will only hit on a 6+ when the squig is moving. I would not take a big gun on a battlewagon even though it can move and shoot it at 5+.

Am i right in reading that you cant shunt wounds on your Mek Gun onto the crew? Seems like the faq was fairly clear in making them separate units, but I read something conflicting on reddit so just wanted to confirm.

cheesedupree wrote:
Am i right in reading that you cant shunt wounds on your Mek Gun onto the crew? Seems like the faq was fairly clear in making them separate units, but I read something conflicting on reddit so just wanted to confirm.

You are correct. They are now separate units, so wounds caused by stuff like rolling 1s for KMK are inflicted on the gun itself and being shot at by enemies means you have to take it on the gun if they target it.

 Jidmah wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
It's not only flyers, but now that gw is handling out "-1 to hit" like candy on many, many units, we lose half of our output. It is especially sad because our shooting units are not costed appropriately at BS5+, much, much less at BS6+.

The only solution I've come up with so far is to write GW and politely ask them to lower the cost of our shooting units. I DO think they are listening, but since they don't playtest ork shooting armies they probably don't know. Please write them!

This. Last game I had a Ghostkeel dropping behind my walkers. There was no way to kill 10 wounds with a -2 hit modifier that could jump out of combat. So I simply had to ignore it and bear the three meltas jumping around me just barely out of charge range.
Luckily I got good rolls on my Big Mek' repair rolls so it didn't kill a lot.

At the very least we need a mek gun that hits on 4+ without any modifiers to handle stuff like this.

In my Battlescribe, I have a unit called the Lifta Wagon with a gun called the Lifta Droppa. This seems like exactly what you need with d6 automatic hits and mortal wounds if it rolls higher than the target's strength on 2d6. Considering it has a 48" range seems like it would be effective if costly. Maybe better than just taking a kicking to the face?

 Grimskul wrote:

cheesedupree wrote:
Am i right in reading that you cant shunt wounds on your Mek Gun onto the crew? Seems like the faq was fairly clear in making them separate units, but I read something conflicting on reddit so just wanted to confirm.

You are correct. They are now separate units, so wounds caused by stuff like rolling 1s for KMK are inflicted on the gun itself and being shot at by enemies means you have to take it on the gun if they target it.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Shrapnelbait wrote:
In my Battlescribe, I have a unit called the Lifta Wagon with a gun called the Lifta Droppa. This seems like exactly what you need with d6 automatic hits and mortal wounds if it rolls higher than the target's strength on 2d6. Considering it has a 48" range seems like it would be effective if costly. Maybe better than just taking a kicking to the face?

For a Ghostkeel you need about four to five shots from that 214 point gun to actually down is. Flyers have higher strength values, so it's even worse against them.

If we could get lifta droppas on 60 point mek guns, I'd agree, but the lifta wagon is simply too expensive.

Also, there should be an option available outside of forgeworld.