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 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
What is everyone doing for anti tank these days?

From the looks of it, most people are still stuck on deciding the best way to GET to the tanks...

Probably Daemon Princes, though.

You could always take CSM stuff alongside your Daemons.

The claw Prince just seems to take too long to go through a decent vehicle, not good to wound, they still get a save and only two damage. The other weapon options aren't much better but we're not spoilt for antitank choice :/

Debilitate wrote:
You could always take CSM stuff alongside your Daemons.

Yes, but before their was usually a Cultists tax. Now we can just plug in whichever unit we want.

 Galef wrote:

Debilitate wrote:
You could always take CSM stuff alongside your Daemons.

Yes, but before their was usually a Cultists tax. Now we can just plug in whichever unit we want.

And if you only pick the daemon engines they'll still benefit from HQ synergies since they have the right keywords.

Arachnofiend wrote:
And if you only pick the daemon engines they'll still benefit from HQ synergies since they have the right keywords.

This is the list of CSM units that can benefit from heralds, etc... This was put together by Wyrlock
As you can see, there a lot more options than just daemon engines. Your tzeentch lord on a disk can benefit. Your nurgle mutilators can benefit from Epidemius' tally, etc...
In some of these cases, the +1 STR from a herald is not much, but in others is significant. Warp talons with +1 STR are much better. The forgefiend is not so much.
You can also apply daemon spells to these units. You can have your herald not only boost Magnus' STR to 9, but also hit him with 'boon of change'
I would argue that there is more synergy between daemons and CSM than imperial units.

HQ:
Lord on Chaos God Mount
Sorcerer on Chaos God Mount
Daemon Prince

Elite:
Possessed
Mutilators

Fast Attack:
Warp Talons
Foetid Bloat Drone

Flyer:
Heldrake

Heavy Support:
Obliterators
Forgefiend
Maulerfiend
Defiler

LoW:
Khorne Lord of Skulls
Magnus the Red


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WisdomLS wrote:
The claw Prince just seems to take too long to go through a decent vehicle, not good to wound, they still get a save and only two damage. The other weapon options aren't much better but we're not spoilt for antitank choice :/

If 1 game turn is to long, then yes.

First Round :
Smite for 2 wounds on Rhino
(35/36 to hit) * (1/2 to wound) * (2/3 failed save) * 7 attacks * 2 wounds = ~4.5 wounds per round.

At the end of the first round, the rhino is 6.5 wounds down. On the rhino players turn, on average the other 3.5 wounds will be stripped off.

It is possible the rhino will flee combat, but then it cannot assault or shoot, allowing the daemon to charge something else on the next round. A clever use of 2 smites would finish off the rhino allowing the daemon prince(s) to eat the yummie candy inside the crunchy shell of a rhino.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
What is everyone doing for anti tank these days?

I'll tell you what isn't good now a days.
Screamers.....

6 screamers with a herald nearby does this.
(1/2 to hit) * (1/2 to wound) * (5/6 failed save) * 2 wounds * 6 attacks = 2.5 wounds.

The herald might smite for another 2.5 wounds. The total investment is 285 points for stripping 4.5 wounds off the rhino. It's extremely lackluster.

As someone who had purchased, built, and painted around 30 Screamers towards the end of 7th, I can also share disappointment over them currently. Exalted Flamers and Brimstone Horrors are the new hotness.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
As someone who had purchased, built, and painted around 30 Screamers towards the end of 7th, I can also share disappointment over them currently. Exalted Flamers and Brimstone Horrors are the new hotness.

Regular flamers don't suck either.

Like you though, I'm slighly miffed that screamers have been hit so hard by the nurf bat.

Do units wiped out by vehicle explosions add to Epidemius' tally?

Where to get exalted flamers that don't cost a burning chariot... =/

That list improves a bit when you factor in the FW units

Elites
Decimator (All gods)


Fast attack
Greater Blight Drone (Nurgle)
Blood slaughterer (Khorne)

Heavy support
Plague hulk (Nurgle)

LOW
Brass Scorpion (khorne)
Kytan (khorne)

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Where to get exalted flamers that don't cost a burning chariot... =/

I'd say Ebay, but I bought them all while they were under $10.

So am I missing something with summoning? Unlike other deep strike esq rules, combined with it happening during movement phase, I can throw out a unit of bloodletters 12 inches as long as it does not come within 9 inches, then move, then assault?

Again, I'm not seeing anything in BRB or the summoning rules that say they cannot move and assault after being summoned?

You summon at the end of the movement phase, so no, they can't move.

Edit: iirc

 sfshilo wrote:
So am I missing something with summoning? Unlike other deep strike esq rules, combined with it happening during movement phase, I can throw out a unit of bloodletters 12 inches as long as it does not come within 9 inches, then move, then assault?

Again, I'm not seeing anything in BRB or the summoning rules that say they cannot move and assault after being summoned?

You can't move, but they can assault as normal.
Given that an instrument gives a +1 to the charge range, they have a 41.66% of making 8 or more on 2d6.

You can use a command die reroll one dice for this charge, greatly increasing the chance of it being made to 68%.

The problem is getting those units into position to where that summons can be useful. Since they can't move, it's limited in effectiveness.

Summoning a unit with an instrument can be a decent way to add to an existing combat. Say your Character is already in combat and does not want to leave, he won't be movig anyway, so why not Summon? It is likely still be able to place a unit within 12" of them and at least 9" away from the unit they are in melee with.
I'd say this is a decent tactic for cheap, slower units (so lesser Daemons mostly) that would have difficulty getting a far up the board as, say, a Daemon Prince.
But if a unit is fast enough to keep pace, you're better off just fielding them from the start.

-

What would be a good army for 1000 point tournament games?

Thought about something like

battalion detachment:

DP of tzeentch with wings sword (know talons are better, but have to do wysiwyg)
DP of tzeentch with wings sword
6 Flamers
6 Flamers
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings
3 Nurglings

940 Points. 6 Commandpoints

What to do with the last 60 Points? Should i switch the Dps to CSM DPs?

What kind of list would you bring?

What are your thoughts on Skarbrand's aura? For units like seekers and blood crushers. Does his aura apply to the rider and the mount giving them each an extra attack? Or just the rider. An extra 40 attacks for a unit of 20 seekers seems to be a reasonable reason to bring Skarbrand. Any thoughts?

What is the general consensus about Khorne Daemonkin?

Deadphish755 wrote:
What is the general consensus about Khorne Daemonkin?

That they do not exist anymore as a Faction.

But you can still just take an army of all <Khorne> units if you want, you just get no special bonuses

tbonebakker wrote:
What are your thoughts on Skarbrand's aura? For units like seekers and blood crushers. Does his aura apply to the rider and the mount giving them each an extra attack? Or just the rider. An extra 40 attacks for a unit of 20 seekers seems to be a reasonable reason to bring Skarbrand. Any thoughts?

Stat adjustments are on character profile. The mount's weapon is completely detached from the profile. This makes strength bonus from herald of nurgle, nearly useless on plague drones, as most of their damage is on static strength weapons.

Deadphish755 wrote:
What is the general consensus about Khorne Daemonkin?

Bikes and Hounds don't get good bonuses for just existing anymore, and Hounds are now a lot slower than Bikes. Bikes got another wound and are more shooty thanks to the new shooting rules. Hounds are still tanky and still a good cheapish screening unit but don't expect them to really hurt anything anymore. Maulerfiends are kind of meh since Khorne no like magic to make them stronger so you're better off with a melee Helbrute or Blood Slaughterer. Bloodletter blobs with HQ support is an interesting idea that I haven't tested yet but could yield some great results. Anything can assault out of deep strike and drop pods now so Berzerkers rushing out of drop pods is a neat idea. Kharn is now an HQ choice. Zhufor is now an HQ choice. Samus and Uraka are now HQ choices. There are now several different ways to play the army instead of spamming one unit with a fire raptor gunship for support. While everyone else got whipped by the index, Khorne got some nice boosts.

Khorne Maulerfiends can still benefit from a khorne herald or daemon prince.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

tbonebakker wrote:
What are your thoughts on Skarbrand's aura? For units like seekers and blood crushers. Does his aura apply to the rider and the mount giving them each an extra attack? Or just the rider. An extra 40 attacks for a unit of 20 seekers seems to be a reasonable reason to bring Skarbrand. Any thoughts?

Stat adjustments are on character profile. The mount's weapon is completely detached from the profile. This makes strength bonus from herald of nurgle, nearly useless on plague drones, as most of their damage is on static strength weapons.

I agree that the +1 Str Herald bonus does not affect weapons with their own Str value, but I disagree about the mount's weapon being detached. You still need the WS of the rider, and nearby DPs will give re-roll 1s even to the mount.
But I would say that any affect that applies to a characteristic, would apply to the rider only, since the mount's attack are more of a special ability already granting extra attacks with a specific profile.

So in the case of Seekers and Crushers, Skarband give the "model" +1 atk. Since the mount is just additional attacks made after the rider's attacks, the +1 is added to the rider only.

-

 labmouse42 wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
And if you only pick the daemon engines they'll still benefit from HQ synergies since they have the right keywords.

This is the list of CSM units that can benefit from heralds, etc... This was put together by Wyrlock
As you can see, there a lot more options than just daemon engines. Your tzeentch lord on a disk can benefit. Your nurgle mutilators can benefit from Epidemius' tally, etc...
In some of these cases, the +1 STR from a herald is not much, but in others is significant. Warp talons with +1 STR are much better. The forgefiend is not so much.
You can also apply daemon spells to these units. You can have your herald not only boost Magnus' STR to 9, but also hit him with 'boon of change'
I would argue that there is more synergy between daemons and CSM than imperial units.

HQ:
Lord on Chaos God Mount
Sorcerer on Chaos God Mount
Daemon Prince

Elite:
Possessed
Mutilators

Fast Attack:
Warp Talons
Foetid Bloat Drone

Flyer:
Heldrake

Heavy Support:
Obliterators
Forgefiend
Maulerfiend
Defiler

LoW:
Khorne Lord of Skulls
Magnus the Red.

Damn, I knew I was underselling the synergy a bit (I was already using Daemon synergy to buff Magnus) but that's a much bigger list than I thought; the God Mounts giving the daemon keyword is an especially interesting idea to me. The Changeling just gets better and better the more I think about it...

 labmouse42 wrote:
Khorne Maulerfiends can still benefit from a khorne herald or daemon prince.

So can Blood Slaughterers who hit on 3+ and have more attacks and move faster and get into close combat quicker due to their harpoon. If you have the means to do so, you should be running Slaughterers instead of Maulers.

So what is a competitive list for us going to look like? is khorne or slaanesh going to be more prominent?

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
So what is a competitive list for us going to look like? is khorne or slaanesh going to be more prominent?

Probably Tzeentch TBH

Breazeal wrote:

 thatssoeffingcool wrote:
So what is a competitive list for us going to look like? is khorne or slaanesh going to be more prominent?

Probably Tzeentch TBH

Like this?
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/19/tzeentch-flying-circus-in-newhammer/

For me it's bare minimum 54 Brimstone Horrors, then filling the remaining slots with Heralds and Exalted Flamers.

Add in the Changeling and you're looking at 15+ Characters with a 4++ and -1 to hit against them, making it very annoying for your opponent.