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a kind like

supreme command
2 tz herald with staff
changeling
magnus

battalion
2 tz herald with staff
5x20 horrors (19 brim and 1 blue)
10 horrors 9 brim 1 blue
6 exalted

Low
styrix Ik hekaton siege claw

I would almost always put a Herald on a disc or a chariot-- the movement combined with the ability to advance + cast smite is very powerful.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I would almost always put a Herald on a disc or a chariot-- the movement combined with the ability to advance + cast smite is very powerful.

but usually heralds stay hidden behind horrors and they cant match herald on disk movement+advance (15" average), i suppose disk can be useful for last turn run on objectives.btw i would like do that but i need 84 extra points. maybe take our 1 exalted?

Certainly could. In my experience the movement is not to be understated. If you have the models you can definitely try it how you have it, though.

i have anything of demons i can do pratically any list, btw you already used that specific kind of list in 8th so i was asking your experience about, i played them a lot in 7th edition.

I agree about putting the Tzeralds on discs or chariots.
They do no have to be behind the Horrors to not be the closest
If you are shoving Magnus down the enemies throat, he will be the closest and even Tzeralds that are in front of Horrors cannot be targeted
You don't even have to move them faster than the horrors, but it's far better to have the option

I've been running a mono-khorne list lately that seems to be doing ok. It's more fluff then WAAC but it's fun to play.

Battalion:
Blood Throne
Fury Thirster

4x Bloodletters with icon and instrument

7 flesh hounds

Soul Grinder with claw

Spearhead:
Herald of Khorne
3x skull cannons
Maulerfiend with magma cutters.

Learning to play bloodletters has been fun. They are extremely fast with instruments and throw in the BT and Warlord herald with the leadership bubble and they hit like a truck. S6 on the charge with double damage on sixes is nothing to sneeze at.

The maulerfield and thirster really soak up alot of incoming fire allowing the letters to get in and do their thing.

Only issues I've been having are the Deathwatch 3++/hammers assault lists as they negate everything I'm bringing to the table. But that's 8th.

 blackmage wrote:
a kind like

supreme command
2 tz herald with staff
changeling
magnus

battalion
2 tz herald with staff
5x20 horrors (19 brim and 1 blue)
10 horrors 9 brim 1 blue
6 exalted

Low
styrix Ik hekaton siege claw

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I would almost always put a Herald on a disc or a chariot-- the movement combined with the ability to advance + cast smite is very powerful.

Too me, more units > upgrades. If you have enough points, get another Herald instead. If not, then you can go for upgrades like a disc or chariot. The exception is the Staff of Change, which is a must-take upgrade for my Tzeentch Heralds.

Giving a Tzeentch herald Fly by nature of the Disc is easily worth the 18 or however many rough points. I'd rather have 7-8 Disc Heralds than 8-9 Foot heralds.

However, yes, Staff is absolutely necessary on every herald.

Depends if you want to run true MSU or not. If you want to maximize damage potential, then I'd go with foot. If you want a little more flexibility, the Disc or Chariot would be fine. If I were to run them with Discs, I may do 1 out of 3 with Disc and the other 2 on foot. Then again, I tend more to optimize my lists for damage capacity.

I suppose. Losing the movement, flexibility and ability to move around, over and through terrain feels much more worthwhile than a single extra smite. I will concede that you certainly afford slightly more damage on foot, I just don't know if I think 2-6 more potential wounds outweights the benefit.

Either have their merits and deserve to be weighed by the individual, to suit their playstyle.

The joy of Daemons.

 jy2 wrote:
Depends if you want to run true MSU or not. If you want to maximize damage potential, then I'd go with foot. If you want a little more flexibility, the Disc or Chariot would be fine. If I were to run them with Discs, I may do 1 out of 3 with Disc and the other 2 on foot. Then again, I tend more to optimize my lists for damage capacity.

There is more to it than the amount of damage you can do. Your opponent's army is more than just a block of wounds. What you damage and where you offer a threat from matters too.

 DarkBlack wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
Depends if you want to run true MSU or not. If you want to maximize damage potential, then I'd go with foot. If you want a little more flexibility, the Disc or Chariot would be fine. If I were to run them with Discs, I may do 1 out of 3 with Disc and the other 2 on foot. Then again, I tend more to optimize my lists for damage capacity.

There is more to it than the amount of damage you can do. Your opponent's army is more than just a block of wounds. What you damage and where you offer a threat from matters too.

Like I said, it's a matter of flexibility vs raw damage output. There is no right or wrong way to run it. It's a matter of preference. If you like the flexibility of mobile Heralds, then by all means put them all on Discs. However, I find that the offense of a pure Tzeentch list isn't that great, especially when you will come up against these types of lists in competitive play:



Therefore, I tend to go more on the raw firepower side of it.

I think that for most players, the answer is more in the middle. A mix of Tzeentch Heralds and foot Heralds in a Tzeentch is a good, balanced way to run things.

I'm willing to take your words to heart, and it's made me think more over the last few hours.

Originally, I have been running a list using:

12 Exalted Flamers
8 Disc Heralds (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue, 9 Brim with summoning points in reserves


I'm now posturing the idea of:

10 Exalted Flamers
8 Disc Heralds (Staff)
2 Foot Herald's (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue 9 Brim

This offers essentially the same targets, but affords me two additional smite's as opposed to two Las shots.

I'm unsure how I feel about the difference, but believe it is worth fiddling with.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I'm willing to take your words to heart, and it's made me think more over the last few hours.

Originally, I have been running a list using:

12 Exalted Flamers
8 Disc Heralds (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue, 9 Brim with summoning points in reserves


I'm now posturing the idea of:

10 Exalted Flamers
8 Disc Heralds (Staff)
2 Foot Herald's (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue 9 Brim

This offers essentially the same targets, but affords me two additional smite's as opposed to two Las shots.

I'm unsure how I feel about the difference, but believe it is worth fiddling with.

I think you missed what he was saying...
He was saying that for the price of 4 Discs (416), you can bring 5 Foots (415).
So to change your list to what he is suggesting, as in having a balanced...

Then your second list should have been
12 Exalted Flamers
4 Disc Heralds (Staff)
5 Foot Heralds (Staff)
Changeling
6x 1 Blue, 9 Brim with summoning points in reserves

I didn't miss it. I just didn't want LESS Disc Heralds. I'm opting to try and use foot Herald's to see how I feel; giving the benefit of a doubt that they're worthwhile, an opinion I don't immediately agree with.

I was merely acknowleding the unit and that they may have their place.

in the few games I have played I have come to the conclusion that decimators w/petards are amazing (even with the points increase I still think that).

I havent tried it yet, but it looks good on paper is running 2-3 decimators (if 3 then 1 w/butcher cannons maybe, but the rest with petards), make them all tzeentch, put them with the changeling, and a daemon prince. I have yet to run this all together like that, but in theory it seems very potent like some sort of mortal wound dishing deathstar.

Other things I've found:
Exalted seeker chariots are surprisingly good.

Seekers are good, but die fast. You really need to get that first turn charge off to make them worth it I feel (or have another unit to distract your opponent's fire)

Bloodcrushers are great with a herald. (Still wish they had a 3+ tho)

Herald of khorne on jugg is good, but why doesn't he have an extra base attack like he should? (Pretty sure that one thing lost me a game, lol.)

Played this list vs CSM at 1500. Warned him about a cheese list:
Magnus
Renegade Knight 2x avengers, ironstorm
Zarakynel
30 brimstones
He got tabled turn 2 pretty much (had 1 <100 pts HQ left on the table)
Played by RAW. Aka, I got the first turn, killed his knight and a squad of cultists(smite). He deepstruck with his terminators and killed my knight. Then I killed the terminators and the terminator HQs with Magnus and Zarakinel in the following turn. So yeah. RAW and 3 Superheavies make a stupid combo... Guaranteed turn 1, kill all the biggest threats when facing a TAC list, win. "Oh but that's not what they intended" Isn't it? Why do they have a 3 superheavy detachement then...
ITC rules or bust IMO

My concern regarding ITC and their events is raising after their poll confirmed the banning of 31+ PL Models.

Going to go ahead and shelf the Aetaos plan and continue trying to work with lots of character spam for Daemons.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
My concern regarding ITC and their events is raising after their poll confirmed the banning of 31+ PL Models.

Going to go ahead and shelf the Aetaos plan and continue trying to work with lots of character spam for Daemons.

play Magnus, he's not Aetos of course but still a good beatstick anyway.

Certainly could. As I've mentioned a few times, though, I'm playing 20+ Characters to great success so far, it's proved very powerful.

Once I finally get my Magnus I'll be happy to test with him.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Played this list vs CSM at 1500. Warned him about a cheese list:
Magnus
Renegade Knight 2x avengers, ironstorm
Zarakynel
30 brimstones
He got tabled turn 2 pretty much (had 1 <100 pts HQ left on the table)
Played by RAW. Aka, I got the first turn, killed his knight and a squad of cultists(smite). He deepstruck with his terminators and killed my knight. Then I killed the terminators and the terminator HQs with Magnus and Zarakinel in the following turn. So yeah. RAW and 3 Superheavies make a stupid combo... Guaranteed turn 1, kill all the biggest threats when facing a TAC list, win. "Oh but that's not what they intended" Isn't it? Why do they have a 3 superheavy detachement then...
ITC rules or bust IMO

The army reminds me of my own, exept it was only for 1250 Point games and i only had 5 models XD.

Played Magnus + 4x Nurgle DP (3x Swords, 1x Double Talon, all with wings)

Won both my games against Tyranids and Deathwatch with some Inquisition Dudes, tabled both of them on Turn 3.

Tyranids had Double Flyrant with Claws, 19 Gargs, 5 Rippers, 2x Mawloc, Scythed Hierodule
Deathwatch had 4 Killteams (4 Frags, some Shotguns, Thunderhammers, E-Weapons etc), 2x Razorback with Lascan, 3 Crusader and a Malleus Inquisitor in Terminator armour + Artemis

As the games started i didn't thougt i would win them both, (1 mission was relic, the other was secure and control), they had more models and also decent dmg per round.

But Magnus and his Daemonprinces made about 12 Mortalwounds a round and had decent output in melee to kill everything.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
My concern regarding ITC and their events is raising after their poll confirmed the banning of 31+ PL Models.

Going to go ahead and shelf the Aetaos plan and continue trying to work with lots of character spam for Daemons.

That's a temporary ruling for the BAO only. I suspect that there will be a vote afterwards for the general populace with regards to PL31+ models.

Correct. I did not mean to imply it was for everything. However, knowing the vote went the way it did is a safe baseline to say a single $200+ model is not the wisest decision for a few events at best.

How do you guys feel about skull cannons? Are they worth the points compared to forgefiends or defilers? Also not sure about the best way to use them. They can fight in melee...but should they fight in melee?

smegma_crunch wrote:
How do you guys feel about skull cannons? Are they worth the points compared to forgefiends or defilers? Also not sure about the best way to use them. They can fight in melee...but should they fight in melee?

I built one recently, and was able to try it out in a game last weekend.

They are pretty useful as fire support if you have a mostly-daemon army, and don't have the points for bigger heavy support. Almost Helbrute level.

The Skull Cannon was actually pretty bad in combat, in that game. If it doesn't do enough damage on the charge, it can easily get bogged down in subsequent rounds because of its paltry 2 attacks.

But I won't be using it a lot, as I'll be trying out some H. Bolter CSM and Blight Launcher Plague Marines [not to mention the Renegade Knight] as fire support instead.

Regarding the 31+ PL thing, I think they will move to a "banned units" later.

On another note, I think Magnus is one of the most broken units in the game ATM, he can solo kill a Knight in 1 turn rather reliably.

Is it me or does the blue scribes seem like a particularly good counter to Brimstone spam? Get into 12" of multiple units, their test is reduced by 1 (so needing 6's), and if they fail then the scribes automatically casts smite - particularly useful if you fly near a strong enemy with multiple smites built up.

I haven't played against any Psykers yet (damn 'crons), but at under 100 points they don't seem bad.

JakeSiren wrote:
Is it me or does the blue scribes seem like a particularly good counter to Brimstone spam? Get into 12" of multiple units, their test is reduced by 1 (so needing 6's), and if they fail then the scribes automatically casts smite - particularly useful if you fly near a strong enemy with multiple smites built up.

I haven't played against any Psykers yet (damn 'crons), but at under 100 points they don't seem bad.

They could just not attempt to smite since it won't cast and they won't lose it permanently

If only the blue scribes had the option to cast a spell of their choice; they'd be an auto include imo.