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The wording is very clear in both the "Loci" general rule and each specific Locus rule. You need a pure Tzeentch detachment to get the Tzeentch locus on your Tzeentch characters; only the characters in the pure detachment get the locus; any TZEENTCH DAEMON in range of the Character benefits, regardless of detachment or other Factions.

I have a Patrol of Tzerald and Pinks and a Battalion of Thousand Sons, led by DP. Thousand Sons DP is near Tzerald. TSDP now benefits from locus.

Asura Varuna wrote:
Seen some conflicting opinions on Chaos Demons and Battleforged armies. To get the benefit of characters providing a Loci, the detachment must all be the same alignment. Is that correct? Does that locus apply to models of the same alignment from other detachments? Are the loci worth including tax troop choices (other than nurglings) for?

Yes - need a pure faction deamon allegiance detachment to gain loci
Yes - to benefit from loci only need daemon and matching allegiance keywords to benefit from loci, irrespective of detachments.
Maybe- depends on your build and if the loci will really help.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Asura Varuna wrote:
Seen some conflicting opinions on Chaos Demons and Battleforged armies. To get the benefit of characters providing a Loci, the detachment must all be the same alignment. Is that correct? Does that locus apply to models of the same alignment from other detachments? Are the loci worth including tax troop choices (other than nurglings) for?

Yes - need a pure faction deamon allegiance detachment to gain loci
Yes - to benefit from loci only need daemon and matching allegiance keywords to benefit from loci, irrespective of detachments.
Maybe- depends on your build and if the loci will really help.

Basically breaks down to the following IMO:
Khorne: Meh for Bloodletters (they have the 3d6 banner), but super awesome for everything else.
Tzeentch: mostly useless. You are unlikely to roll high, and you don't want to be in combat for the most part.
Nurgle: can be useful. Stacks nicely with virulent blessing, but does slow the game down as you need to roll wounds one at a time.
Slaanesh: Super useful IMO. It helps get key units into combat t1 (looking at seekers and chariots, Daemonettes are SOL)

The Loci are plain aura abilities that affect all <DEITY> DAEMONS. So, the question is, are they worth it?

A Nurgle Battalion is a no-brainer. Plaguebearers and Nurglings are great space-fillers, Poxbringers bring good powers that are perfectly complimented by the Locus and Epidemius is great if you’re going full Nurgle. If you’re going CSM Daemonkin, a Poxbringer is a great partner to Oblits. Lack of a mounted Herald limits their ability to support other CSM Daemon units - except Epidemius. There’s good options for an Outriders, but the Herald will probably hang out with other units it can keep pace with. A Bell GUO from a pure detachment can do scary stuff with Blight-haulers.

Khorne detachments are great. Everything bar the Skull Cannon loves re-rolling charges. Battalions are like a budget version of Kraken Genestealer spam. Outriders give DTW coverage and Flesh Hound are pretty useful screening units that can eat modest Troops. Vanguards, not so much; TBH I expect most bloodcrushers are being run as mounted heralds - whose Loci are again really good for Daemonkin. Re-rolling charges on Warptimed Warp Talons or Decimators is horrific. And Lords of Skulls should always be taking a Jugger Herald from a Khorne Detachment for walkies. Lasherfiends are as good here as they are feeding Epidemius.

Tzeentch Battalions are brilliant because a large PH unit is a brilliant screen clearer, BsH are cheaper space fillers than Cultists, and the Pinks want a Herald to buff their strength anyway; a mounted Herald can also hang out with Magnus and Sorcerers on Discs and Daemon Princes and burn a CP to super-charge their psychic. The purity Locus is a tiny tasteless cherry on top of a magnificent cake. They can also fill a Vanguard really well, and again the two Flamer units really like to hang out with a Herald but the purity Locus is again of very little benefit. A mounted Herald from a pure detachment can do niche stuff with Possessed and Lasherfiends.

Slaanesh Battalions are difficult to justify instead of a Khorne one. Re-rolling 3D6 charges is far, far, far better for a deep strike horde, that benefits little from charging after advancing. Outriders are good; Seekers and Hellflayers *do* like to charge after advancing, and heralds on steeds are still good support units, so there’s that. If you’re taking, say, a Soulgrinder, and don’t intend to babysit it with a Herald, there’s things to be said for making it Slaaneshi and taking a couple of chariots and a mounted Herald to fill out a Spearhead. I’ve seen Supreme Command detachments of mounted Heralds that support Daemonkin, which looks like a viable niche. Good way to add a Fiends unit to tag Land Raiders without committing to a Vanguard, too.

Anyone find a use for the Sloppity Bilepiper? I'm finding it difficult to keep him in range of the nurglings he is supposed to support because he is giving them the ability to move faster without himself getting that benefit. Even the leadership bubble is hard to use due to his size.

sfshilo, bilepiper doubles the value of any daemon icons you have, letting you fish for ones on morale checks. Solid for spawning plaguebearers or resurrecting plague drones

ALso when using the bilepiper with nurgligns you can deep strike him in or, more realisticly, just use a base or two of nurgligns to string back and tough his aura for the advance and charge.

So this past weekend I went against by buddy's Tau as Mono- Nurgle Daemons....

I got wrecked... especially by "for the greater good" (assisted overwatch).... anyone have any tips vs that kind of army?? He pretty much shut down my entire army since I am mostly melee, and he destroyed half my 30 pb units from overwatch alone

kilfrg7864 wrote:
So this past weekend I went against by buddy's Tau as Mono- Nurgle Daemons....

I got wrecked... especially by "for the greater good" (assisted overwatch).... anyone have any tips vs that kind of army?? He pretty much shut down my entire army since I am mostly melee, and he destroyed half my 30 pb units from overwatch alone

Remember that a unit can't fire Overwatch or ftGG again if they've already ftGG'd once that turn. Once something tough but with not much damage output has charged, then send the rest of the forces in with no fear of overwatch.

 mrhappyface wrote:

kilfrg7864 wrote:
So this past weekend I went against by buddy's Tau as Mono- Nurgle Daemons....

I got wrecked... especially by "for the greater good" (assisted overwatch).... anyone have any tips vs that kind of army?? He pretty much shut down my entire army since I am mostly melee, and he destroyed half my 30 pb units from overwatch alone

Remember that a unit can't fire Overwatch or ftGG again if they've already ftGG'd once that turn. Once something tough but with not much damage output has charged, then send the rest of the forces in with no fear of overwatch.

I think problem was i didnt really have anything tough...
,
pretty much just had 3x30 pb units, and nurglings, rotigus and a DP. He cut one of my pb squads in half with OW and completely nuked my DP with a dude with 4 melta shots...

kilfrg7864 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

kilfrg7864 wrote:
So this past weekend I went against by buddy's Tau as Mono- Nurgle Daemons....

I got wrecked... especially by "for the greater good" (assisted overwatch).... anyone have any tips vs that kind of army?? He pretty much shut down my entire army since I am mostly melee, and he destroyed half my 30 pb units from overwatch alone

Remember that a unit can't fire Overwatch or ftGG again if they've already ftGG'd once that turn. Once something tough but with not much damage output has charged, then send the rest of the forces in with no fear of overwatch.

I think problem was i didnt really have anything tough...
,
pretty much just had 3x30 pb units, and nurglings, rotigus and a DP. He cut one of my pb squads in half with OW and completely nuked my DP with a dude with 4 melta shots...

Rotigus should have eaten the charge and let the Plaguebearers swamp the rest of his infantry. And how did 4 melta shots bring down a Nurgle DP?

 mrhappyface wrote:

kilfrg7864 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

kilfrg7864 wrote:
So this past weekend I went against by buddy's Tau as Mono- Nurgle Daemons....

I got wrecked... especially by "for the greater good" (assisted overwatch).... anyone have any tips vs that kind of army?? He pretty much shut down my entire army since I am mostly melee, and he destroyed half my 30 pb units from overwatch alone

Remember that a unit can't fire Overwatch or ftGG again if they've already ftGG'd once that turn. Once something tough but with not much damage output has charged, then send the rest of the forces in with no fear of overwatch.

I think problem was i didnt really have anything tough...
,
pretty much just had 3x30 pb units, and nurglings, rotigus and a DP. He cut one of my pb squads in half with OW and completely nuked my DP with a dude with 4 melta shots...

Rotigus should have eaten the charge and let the Plaguebearers swamp the rest of his infantry. And how did 4 melta shots bring down a Nurgle DP?

He hit3/4 of his shots. and i failedall of my saves.... and the shots did d6 dmg each...

kilfrg7864 wrote:

He hit3/4 of his shots. and i failedall of my saves.... and the shots did d6 dmg each...

You failed all of your invul and DR saves? Unlucky.

Hello,
I am an AoS player, I have an army Maggotkin of Nurgle
at wh40k I started playing with the army Dark Angels, ravenwing without talons. I thought to play the same like in AoS in 40k.
I have the following Nurgle figures on about 1000 points -

GUO - warlord, Psychic Power: Smite, Stream of Corruption, Bilesword, Nurglings, Plague flail
Daemon Prince - (Wings), Weapon: Hellforged sword, Psychic Power: Nurgle's Rot, Smite
Poxbringer - Psychic Power: Miasma of Pestilence
Nurgings
2 units of 10 Plaguebearers - icon, instrument
Plague drones - icon, instrument
946 points

Is it reasonable to play with them? single nurgle?
I don't care about the result, but I don't want to lose to zero. I will not buy others daemons to add to nurgle.

Hey,

Is anyone else trying pure tzeetch demons? I am struggling to make a list I'm happy with, since almost everything would like to be deep struck but I'd also like to have some CPs for the really powerful in game stratagems we have access to (3++ saves and re-rolling psychic tests). I've been toying with the idea of a brigade, but struggle to put anything I'm happy with in fast attack or heavy support.

 lindsay40k wrote:
a mounted Herald can also hang out with Magnus and Sorcerers on Discs and Daemon Princes and burn a CP to super-charge their psychic.

If you're talking about Locus of Conjuration, it doesn't work on Thousand Sons characters.

FAQ wrote:Q: When a Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Daemons
uses the Daemon keyword, can it be used to affect any unit
with the Daemon keyword, or only units with the Daemon
Faction keyword?
A: These Stratagems can only affect units with the
Daemon Faction keyword.

^ there’s been discussion on this and the general consensus was that these Stratagems can only be played on DAEMON faction keyword units but their auras can affect any DAEMON unit. CSM Disc Sorcerers and DPs qualify.

Further discussion would probably be best held in YMDC.

 lindsay40k wrote:
^ there’s been discussion on this and the general consensus was that these Stratagems can only be played on DAEMON faction keyword units but their auras can affect any DAEMON unit. CSM Disc Sorcerers and DPs qualify.

Could you point me to this discussion please ? I can't seem to find in YMDC.

I’m afraid I can’t, it was within here a few months back. FWIW I’d agree that RAW tend to favour your reading, but the RAI interpretation is that Loci affect all DAEMON units but can only be generated by DAEMON faction units.

Yeah it depends because it can be read as the stratagem gives your characters that aura. Then the aura isn't affected by the FAQ.

RAI is about as questionable though because maybe thier intent was for these stratagems not to work on none codex daemons stuff.

 lindsay40k wrote:
I’m afraid I can’t, it was within here a few months back. FWIW I’d agree that RAW tend to favour your reading, but the RAI interpretation is that Loci affect all DAEMON units but can only be generated by DAEMON faction units.

I believe this is how it was handled at major tournaments as well such as LVO etc. Seems accepted loci are only generated by faction keyword (essentially those that are in the daemon codex and a few from FW) but apply to daemon units more general (oblits, mutilators, etc.). I believe this is closely aligned with how most psychic abilities work as well(?.e. tzeentch daemon flickering flames, daemonspark etc.).

And strats clearly cannot be used on those daemons who do not have the faction keyword - this is why there are no more deepstriking primarchs or mortarion walking around at 3++ - further interpretation is wishful thinking and you will not find a game (casual or competitive) that would open that debate - as it is quite explicit in the FAQ.

Q: When a Stratagem from Codex: Chaos Daemons uses the Daemon keyword, can it be used to affect any unit with the Daemon keyword, or only units with the DaemonFaction keyword?
A: These Stratagems can only affect units with the Daemon Faction keyword.

kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:
Hey,

Is anyone else trying pure tzeetch demons? I am struggling to make a list I'm happy with, since almost everything would like to be deep struck but I'd also like to have some CPs for the really powerful in game stratagems we have access to (3++ saves and re-rolling psychic tests). I've been toying with the idea of a brigade, but struggle to put anything I'm happy with in fast attack or heavy support.

I feel your pain, bro . I've played mono-Tzinch army in 7-th and want to play it now, but it is very difficult to make it powerful enough to not feel yourself a masochist. The only thing I can think of being somewhat effective is a good old character spam: a battalion with 3 DPs (probably one or two with wings) and brimstones as a cheap troops choice and another battalion with Heralds on disks (or Flux-something they are called today) and probably a Blue Scribes/Changeling for fun, two units of brimstones and one 20-strong unit of Pink Horrors and 6-strong unit of flamers. You will be able to drop a wingless DPs, Herald, Pink Horrors and Flamers for 4 CP out of 9 you'll have, while advancing everything else towards a frontline. This way you can have a nice alfa-strike and be able to protect your heavy hitters (characters) by chaff units. And of course you'll have a lot of Smites at your disposal.

Haysup. I'm trying to rebuild my old 7th Edition armies from unsold remnants, but the only Daemon models I have are 10 Horrors, three Screamers, and a clutch of Hounds. Is there any way to make a competent 750pt army based on these models, or am I going to have to re-buy everything all over again?

 BBAP wrote:
Haysup. I'm trying to rebuild my old 7th Edition armies from unsold remnants, but the only Daemon models I have are 10 Horrors, three Screamers, and a clutch of Hounds. Is there any way to make a competent 750pt army based on these models, or am I going to have to re-buy everything all over again?

What you looking at doing? Daemon soup? Chaos Soup? A specific Daemon faction? A specific God with daemons and CSM elements? Something else?

I should think those models are useable. Screamers aren’t terrible, pretty frightening on a dense cover table where they can leapfrog between blind spots. Hounds provide competent charges and deny the witch coverage. A Khorne or Tzeentch HQ of some sort will complement one of those units well. Though I think you’re a ways off from 750pts, so there’s plenty of room to think where you’d like to specialise. (Horrors are pretty nasty when you take 20+ and have them jump out of the Warp & rendezvous with a Herald.)

Misque wrote:
Hello,
I am an AoS player, I have an army Maggotkin of Nurgle
at wh40k I started playing with the army Dark Angels, ravenwing without talons. I thought to play the same like in AoS in 40k.
I have the following Nurgle figures on about 1000 points -

GUO - warlord, Psychic Power: Smite, Stream of Corruption, Bilesword, Nurglings, Plague flail
Daemon Prince - (Wings), Weapon: Hellforged sword, Psychic Power: Nurgle's Rot, Smite
Poxbringer - Psychic Power: Miasma of Pestilence
Nurgings
2 units of 10 Plaguebearers - icon, instrument
Plague drones - icon, instrument
946 points

Is it reasonable to play with them? single nurgle?
I don't care about the result, but I don't want to lose to zero. I will not buy others daemons to add to nurgle.

Very good start for 40k.. I pretty much always use Nurglings, Poxbringer, a CD Prince with the Corruption relic, and Plague Drones mixed in with whatever Secondary detachment I bring.

Misque wrote:
Hello,
I am an AoS player, I have an army Maggotkin of Nurgle
at wh40k I started playing with the army Dark Angels, ravenwing without talons. I thought to play the same like in AoS in 40k.
I have the following Nurgle figures on about 1000 points -

GUO - warlord, Psychic Power: Smite, Stream of Corruption, Bilesword, Nurglings, Plague flail
Daemon Prince - (Wings), Weapon: Hellforged sword, Psychic Power: Nurgle's Rot, Smite
Poxbringer - Psychic Power: Miasma of Pestilence
Nurgings
2 units of 10 Plaguebearers - icon, instrument
Plague drones - icon, instrument
946 points

Is it reasonable to play with them? single nurgle?
I don't care about the result, but I don't want to lose to zero. I will not buy others daemons to add to nurgle.

For 1000 points I think it's a bit HQ heavy. I would advice ditching the GUO and getting more bodies (nurglings/PBs) or adding more units for a 1500 / 2000 list.

AstraVlad wrote:

kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:
Hey,

Is anyone else trying pure tzeetch demons? I am struggling to make a list I'm happy with, since almost everything would like to be deep struck but I'd also like to have some CPs for the really powerful in game stratagems we have access to (3++ saves and re-rolling psychic tests). I've been toying with the idea of a brigade, but struggle to put anything I'm happy with in fast attack or heavy support.

I feel your pain, bro . I've played mono-Tzinch army in 7-th and want to play it now, but it is very difficult to make it powerful enough to not feel yourself a masochist. The only thing I can think of being somewhat effective is a good old character spam: a battalion with 3 DPs (probably one or two with wings) and brimstones as a cheap troops choice and another battalion with Heralds on disks (or Flux-something they are called today) and probably a Blue Scribes/Changeling for fun, two units of brimstones and one 20-strong unit of Pink Horrors and 6-strong unit of flamers. You will be able to drop a wingless DPs, Herald, Pink Horrors and Flamers for 4 CP out of 9 you'll have, while advancing everything else towards a frontline. This way you can have a nice alpha-strike and be able to protect your heavy hitters (characters) by chaff units. And of course you'll have a lot of Smites at your disposal.

Yeah, I'm thinking double Battalion at a minimum. Character spam is tempting, but most of our characters are 'meh'. Demon princes are solid but heralds aren't doing much more than the +Str buff and Lords of Change lack the offensive ability make their cost a worth while investment.

I wonder if non-deep striking horrors are a viable option. 10 for 70 points seems reasonable and they still pump out 20 Str4 shots if they are near a herald and take a decent amount of fire to kill. 25 on foot is another option (175) but I think they could be a bit unwieldy.

kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:

Yeah, I'm thinking double Battalion at a minimum. Character spam is tempting, but most of our characters are 'meh'. Demon princes are solid but heralds aren't doing much more than the +Str buff and Lords of Change lack the offensive ability make their cost a worth while investment.

Lords of Change are really meh and they also can be targeted. That means they will be dead after the first opponent's shooting phase. But Heralds are not so useless as they seem to be. First they buff everyone around them, including DPs (and S8 is definitely a good thing to have for a melee-oriented model), they can buff PHs for +1 to-wound (that means wounding MEQ at 3+) and they have a long-range Smite that means they usually will start to kill from turn 1. And let's not forget that they are mobile and can move from one objective to another making Maelstrom missions if necessary. Of course they are not battle monsters, but can be useful at least.

kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:

I wonder if non-deep striking horrors are a viable option. 10 for 70 points seems reasonable and they still pump out 20 Str4 shots if they are near a herald and take a decent amount of fire to kill. 25 on foot is another option (175) but I think they could be a bit unwieldy.

Pinks are definitely seem to be interesting but I'm not really sure whether they are worth the price. Basically we have a GEQ with a better save and assault 2 las-gun for almost twice the price. With Herald nearby they turn into GEQ with a better save and an assault 2 bolter, but still will die like a flies with their T3 and 1W. They are also pathetic in close combat and can not shoot after falling back. And their restricted Smite is a joke .

AstraVlad wrote:
Lords of Change are really meh and they also can be targeted. That means they will be dead after the first opponent's shooting phase.

Don't forget a few things though : a Lord of Change with Impossible Robe and -1dmg Warlord trait becomes a lot tougher, cutting Plasma damage by 66% and Lascannon by 47%. Denizens of the Warp will also deny your opponent a shooting phase to it.

It might not make its points back in a single turn, but its durability allows the "WarLord" of Change to deal respectable damage in 2 or 3 turns before going down. I think it even featured in a top 50 list at the AdeptiCon.