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On paper they look like hot trash, but the FAQ gave them the PLAGUEBEARER keyword, so now they get the +1 to hit and additional hits from the scriviner. Toss that and the locus on them, with re-rolling all wounds and you have a very large amount of saves you are going to force. If you toss Vilurent blessing on them, they really shine, now they can deal up to 5dmg per swing with their proboscis.
Icon+Feculent gnarlmaw gives you an OK chance at a turn 1 charge, and at 4 wounds each, they are fairly durable.
In short, you get a fast, large, durable unit that can put lots of CC pressure on through weight of high dmg attacks with no ap. Lack of AP is a bit liberating, as you no longer care what you toss them at. They can even take a chunk out of a land raider!
I've found 4 wounds to be a sweet spot for lascannon bait, thanks to DG, we have a decent chance that it will take 2 lascannon wounds to kill a single drone, for their points, that is a sweet deal.
I can't seriously invest in an extra 18 Plague Drones (I have 9) before the inevitable nerfing.
The boost to Plague Bearer status opening up combination with the Scrivener is too much.
One unit can take Virulent Blessing, Miasma of Pestilence, +1 to Invuls as well, so the rest are just for redundancy, plus the footprint is freaking massive on one unit alone.
I can respect the list with 27, 90 Plagues, Triherald and Epi getting 9th, but I won't be playing in that style of tournament so it won't be a purchasing decision - I'll just stick with adding Daemon Princes and Nurglings which are still also useful here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/15 19:22:06
Yeh they’re awesome in AoS (although v2 is out soon so we’ll see how that changes things). I’m basically trying to port my AoS army over to 40k for the time being due to limited hobby time, so the notion that a bunch of plaguebearers, drones, and supporting characters is good is pretty encouraging.
The 2 units of 7 worked pretty well. Didn't go first, and failed one of my turn 1 charges, played with beta rules so my PB were not on the field either. I had morty on the table, so all the scary stuff shot him, killing him on turn 2 (yay hellblaster spam) Both drone blobs were able to get some big beefy multi charges off. Start of turn 3 my opponents entire army was in CC, mostly with the 2 drones.
As for morty, I completely understand why he is not competitive. For his points I could have had another 7 drones and a ton of nurgling. Possibly even another battalion. The games I play are not super competitive, and as pickup games are, the opponent is hit or miss, but I think drones are in a good spot.
And when 8th dropped I was thinking, "unit size of 9? why the hell would you ever want a blob that big?" Then rule of 3 happened. Honestly I would rather run a ton of blobs of 4 or 5 drones, just easier to manage.
I use my Plague drones as escorts for Daemon princes. 2 units of bare 3 usually get the Princes where they need to be.
Back in 7th edition, it would have been Spawn, but Drones are just better right now. Small arms fire is their downfall, but better them than the Daemon princes.
And yea, transporting just 6 of them so far is a PITA. Already filed down their claws to prevent breakage and sacrificed cool poses for practicality on half of them
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/16 15:49:42
Had a great game last night with my mostly Daemon Tzeentch force against a balanced Nid force. I won mostly due to a maxed out unit of Pink horrors with ~100 points of reserves for splitting. They acted as a nearly indestructible screen protecting my characters and some Mutiliths from getting first turn charged by Stealers, Guants and a Brood lord. Much to my surprise they survived mostly intact (25 pinks left and a handful of Brimestones). Next turn they left combat (I deployed them in a solid block to make it nearly impossible to surround and trap any models) and my shooting and counter-charge took care of the threat. They only got to fire once in the game (mowing down some Dev guants) but kept screen and absorbing charges all game long. I even forgot to use the Locus of Tzeetch which would have (probably) make them even hardier in combat.
This makes me think that in a post-FAQ world with plenty of Command points and limited first turn charges, Pink horrors running across the board are really very good. Tying them up with high toughness units seems like the only reasonable counter to them, but Tzeetch has plenty of supporting units that can deal effectively with those threats (Screamers, Deamon Princes, LoC, exalted flamers and burning chariots).
kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote: Had a great game last night with my mostly Daemon Tzeentch force against a balanced Nid force. I won mostly due to a maxed out unit of Pink horrors with ~100 points of reserves for splitting. They acted as a nearly indestructible screen protecting my characters and some Mutiliths from getting first turn charged by Stealers, Guants and a Brood lord. Much to my surprise they survived mostly intact (25 pinks left and a handful of Brimestones). Next turn they left combat (I deployed them in a solid block to make it nearly impossible to surround and trap any models) and my shooting and counter-charge took care of the threat. They only got to fire once in the game (mowing down some Dev guants) but kept screen and absorbing charges all game long. I even forgot to use the Locus of Tzeetch which would have (probably) make them even hardier in combat.
This makes me think that in a post-FAQ world with plenty of Command points and limited first turn charges, Pink horrors running across the board are really very good. Tying them up with high toughness units seems like the only reasonable counter to them, but Tzeetch has plenty of supporting units that can deal effectively with those threats (Screamers, Deamon Princes, LoC, exalted flamers and burning chariots).
Thats awesome to hear as my alpha legion list is running 25-30 pinks in a battalion with 2 x10 brims and 150 points in reserve for splits and/or flamer summons.
The plan is to use forward operstives to seize objectives and to set up havocs and oblits in cover whilst positioning everything else behind the pinks as they move and advance.
I need to get at least 1 more E flamer, but the idea is that my opponent will only be able to shoot at the pinks or at units in cover and at -1 to hit (Alpha legion).
Ive got a game on the weekend so hopefully the list performs how i want it to.
And yea, transporting just 6 of them so far is a PITA. Already filed down their claws to prevent breakage and sacrificed cool poses for practicality on half of them
I've magnetized their wings and hope it solves the biggest problems, but so far I didn't have to transport them to try it out really .
kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote: Had a great game last night with my mostly Daemon Tzeentch force against a balanced Nid force.
This is amusing bc I was coming on to post about my game last night against Nids! Played against a top-tier ITC Tyranid player, Matt Evans.
Did better than I expected: we tied 26-26. So I'm pleased with what I did, and I see a targetting error that, had I fixed, would've gained me a few more points. Should've plopped the bigger Pink blob and Tzerald to nuke the two Stealer blobs, rather than protect my backfield objective.
However, I'm considering changing it substantially.
Here's what I have:
PURE TZEENTCH BATTALION
Tzerald
LoC with Robes
20 Pinks Icon
25 Pinks Icon
10 Brims
PURE DAEMON BATTALION
Slerald on Steed
Poxbringer
3x3 Nurglings
PURE TSONS SUPREME
Winged Prince with Crystal
Winged Prince with Helm
Winged Prince
Ahirman on Disc
2x Rhino with 2 bolters and havoc
25 pts for splits
(Tzerald and Pinks in DS; LoC soaks firepower; Rhinos and LoC screen the characters; Slerald kills scouts; Nurglings deny Infiltrate)
Here's what I'm considering:
PURE TZEENTCH BATTALION
Tzerald
LoC with Robes
22 Pinks
2x10 Brims
PURE ALPHA LEGION BATTALION
Lord, Fist, Claw
Jump Lord, Fist, Claw
30 Cultists
2x5 Marines
2x3 Oblits
PURE TSONS SUPREME
Winged Prince with Crystal
Winged Prince with Helm
Winged Prince
(Tzerald and Pinks in DS; LoC has 2++; Jump Lord and Oblits in DS; Cultists screen and come back)
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote: Had a great game last night with my mostly Daemon Tzeentch force against a balanced Nid force.
This is amusing bc I was coming on to post about my game last night against Nids! Played against a top-tier ITC Tyranid player, Matt Evans.
Did better than I expected: we tied 26-26. So I'm pleased with what I did, and I see a targetting error that, had I fixed, would've gained me a few more points. Should've plopped the bigger Pink blob and Tzerald to nuke the two Stealer blobs, rather than protect my backfield objective.
However, I'm considering changing it substantially.
Here's what I have:
PURE TZEENTCH BATTALION
Tzerald
LoC with Robes
20 Pinks Icon
25 Pinks Icon
10 Brims
PURE DAEMON BATTALION
Slerald on Steed
Poxbringer
3x3 Nurglings
PURE TSONS SUPREME
Winged Prince with Crystal
Winged Prince with Helm
Winged Prince
Ahirman on Disc
2x Rhino with 2 bolters and havoc
25 pts for splits
(Tzerald and Pinks in DS; LoC soaks firepower; Rhinos and LoC screen the characters; Slerald kills scouts; Nurglings deny Infiltrate)
Here's what I'm considering:
PURE TZEENTCH BATTALION
Tzerald
LoC with Robes
22 Pinks
2x10 Brims
PURE ALPHA LEGION BATTALION
Lord, Fist, Claw
Jump Lord, Fist, Claw
30 Cultists
2x5 Marines
2x3 Oblits
PURE TSONS SUPREME
Winged Prince with Crystal
Winged Prince with Helm
Winged Prince
(Tzerald and Pinks in DS; LoC has 2++; Jump Lord and Oblits in DS; Cultists screen and come back)
Thoughts?
I like the second list lots of CP and screens. The only thing im not sure about is the inclusion of the 2x5 marines. Why not just take 2x10 cultist to fill battalion spots and use the other points elsewhere (horror splits?)
Rather than deep strikeing your jump lords you could always forward operatives them and get a T1 charge to tag somwthing that you dont want shooting and force your oppeonent to turn to deal with the threat in the backline. You could always drop him in with the cultist blob to get some shooting off with reroll 1s and then try and charge them all into something. You have the CP spare to do this.
What mark are you going to give the oblits? This is something I have been debating lately, slaanesh or tzeentch.
Slaanesh you get the double shoot strat, tzeentch you can make use of the herald and DP auras.
My list which is also tzeentch and alpha legion below:
I forgot to add the chainswords to the chosen. But i will give them to them in case someone tries to lock them up. They will be forward opratives forward to try and delete something turn 1 possibly with the sorcerer for prescience for safe overcharge.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/17 21:06:59
Well my stance is obvious. Not taking the best unit tzeentch has (pink blobs) = bad list. Also Burning chariots are real bad. Changeling is not worth it. I've yet to see one post FAQ in a comp list. I've played a similar list against Dakkafex nids and just got blown off the table. Flamers always died turn after deepstrike and didn't even do much when they flamed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/18 04:11:11
rvd1ofakind wrote: Well my stance is obvious. Not taking the best unit tzeentch has (pink blobs) = bad list. Also Burning chariots are real bad. Changeling is not worth it. I've yet to see one post FAQ in a comp list. I've played a similar list against Dakkafex nids and just got blown off the table. Flamers always died turn after deepstrike and didn't even do much when they flamed.
I've personally found Burning Chariots to be quite good. They basically want to be in combat, and tend to be fast enough to do so.
Changling can be OK, mainly when you have 600+ points protected by it. Anything less and you are better off bringing more guys.
I will echo Rvd's sentiments about Pinks though. They are such a strong unit for dealing with all manner of threats that you are at a significant disadvantage by not taking them. That said, if you feel you don't need them in your meta then all the more power to you!
Changling can be OK, mainly when you have 600+ points protected by it.
And it's quite difficult to cram 600+ points of models (not units) into his 9'' aura range. Especially later in the game when said models want to be in combat everywhere on the table.
Changling can be OK, mainly when you have 600+ points protected by it.
And it's quite difficult to cram 600+ points of models (not units) into his 9'' aura range. Especially later in the game when said models want to be in combat everywhere on the table.
Prior to the FAQ I would get 9 chariots, a DP, and some Heralds under it. But yes, it can be. It is more useful for resisting the alpha strike.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Well my stance is obvious. Not taking the best unit tzeentch has (pink blobs) = bad list. Also Burning chariots are real bad. Changeling is not worth it. I've yet to see one post FAQ in a comp list. I've played a similar list against Dakkafex nids and just got blown off the table. Flamers always died turn after deepstrike and didn't even do much when they flamed.
I have to say im with you on this. With the survivability of pink blobs, tzeentch lists would do better to make use of the durable screen by putting stuff behind them that will be protected by them. E.g. exalted flamers, daemon princes, fateskimmers. By doing this you really limit your opponents options for shooting and may even force them to shoot horrors, which can be split and can potentially have 3++ save.
Flamers and chariots will fall quickly to a shooting line. Im more inclined to use flamers as a summoning option if you have spare reserve points or you need to counter something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/18 10:41:45
i ll bring to a tournament a 30 man pink horror unit, during play test it was really good, durable, heavy hitter and a troop with OS, i dont see Tz having lot of viable options right now, Gd are almost crap, brimstone are decent but nothing great, screamers, chariots are again crap, Dp are good like usual, changeling no comment why i should need a model just giving a 6++ FNP....a joke, with smite semi nerf is also pointless rely on smite spam cause it wont work
In my recent playtests i found Nurgle be the best God , very durable, fast enough, good hitter, at next tournament i ll play a whole Nurgle battalion, and just keep oblys for fire support.
3rd place league tournament
03-18-2018
2nd place league tournament
06-12-2018
3rd place league
tournament
12-09-2018
3rd place league tournament
01-13-2019
1st place league tournament
01-27-2019
1st place league
tournament
02-25-2019
Tzeentch comes into it's own when allied with thousand sons. Mono deamon nurgle is defiantly the best. Slaanesh works great as a support force and khorne is khorne.
blackmage wrote: i ll bring to a tournament a 30 man pink horror unit, during play test it was really good, durable, heavy hitter and a troop with OS, i dont see Tz having lot of viable options right now, Gd are almost crap, brimstone are decent but nothing great, screamers, chariots are again crap, Dp are good like usual, changeling no comment why i should need a model just giving a 6++ FNP....a joke, with smite semi nerf is also pointless rely on smite spam cause it wont work
In my recent playtests i found Nurgle be the best God , very durable, fast enough, good hitter, at next tournament i ll play a whole Nurgle battalion, and just keep oblys for fire support.
You did a good job at listing the crap units but I think it makes up for this with its good units. Exalted flamers, heralds on chariot, DPs, blue scribes. These units aren't spectacular by themsmelves but with a blob of pinks, other cheap chaff and paired with some heavier csm units i think they are really strong. Forcing people to shoot what you want them too is pretty handy and it will fristrate the gak out of them when they need to shoot through your chaff to get shots at your exalted flamers and DPs + fateskimmers which are moving into threat range for a charge.
I cant find value in taking tzeentch units other than those I listes everything else is too fragile and will get picked off not only because they can be threats but because who is going to want to shoot a 3++ splitting blob.
I've had much better luck with Abaddon + 40 Slaanesh cultists with Delightful Agonies/VOTLW than blobs of 30 pinks. What's stopping your pinks from taking horrific morale casualties? I find that even with splitting, my opponent only has to inflict 12-15 wounds on the blob to neuter the effectiveness of my unit. Whereas with cultists, A) they're much cheaper B) they have a way more viable spread of buffs/psychic powers to do damage rather than relying on just 1 or 2 key psychic rolls (1CP for VOTLW to wound anything on 4s or at worst 5s, 2CP to doubleshoot, compared to say, flickering flames +1S, GG if you fail that psychic test) C) 40 fearless wounds with 5+ FNP. Cultists seem much more cost effective while doing comparable amounts of damage. You can even diabolic strength/prescience a 40 man blob and it becomes pretty scary in close combat/shooting. Oh yeah, and 2CP to regenerate the unit COMPLETELY. Have I been playing pinks completely wrong or am I missing something here? Once I started using Abaddon I have no idea why I even bothered with pinks.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rvd1ofakind wrote: Ok guys, I'm here with the secretest of the secret sauces. So there's a Nurgle Daemons list that is 3:0 so far in the London GT.
That list is.................... 1440 pts of nurlings in squads of 9 xD (+heralds,piper,epidemius,DP)
This sounds promising lmfao.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2018/05/20 07:16:00
barboggo wrote: I've had much better luck with Abaddon + 40 Slaanesh cultists with Delightful Agonies/VOTLW than blobs of 30 pinks. What's stopping your pinks from taking horrific morale casualties? I find that even with splitting, my opponent only has to inflict 12-15 wounds on the blob to neuter the effectiveness of my unit, even with splitting. Whereas with cultists, A) they're much cheaper B) they have a way more viable spread of buffs/psychic powers to do damage rather than relying on just 1 or 2 key psychic rolls (1CP for VOTLW to wound anything on 4s or at worst 5s, 2CP to doubleshoot, compared to say, flickering flames +1S, GG if you fail that psychic test) C) 40 fearless wounds with 5+ FNP. Cultists seem much more cost effective while doing comparable amounts of damage. You can even diabolic strength/prescience a 40 man blob and it becomes pretty scary in close combat/shooting. Oh yeah, and 2CP to regenerate the unit COMPLETELY. Have I been playing pinks completely wrong or am I missing something here? Once I started using Abaddon I have no idea why I even bothered with pinks.
Sure if you are taking abby 40 man cultist blobs are great but i think whilst they are cheaper they are more CP hungry. To do the double shot and VotLW that is 3 CP per turn and another 2 CP wwhen you bring them back. Whilst that is not huge if you are taking 13+ CP (2x battalions) it still is quite a bit.
I would love to see the mathhammer for it comparing the two, but pinks with 4++ or 3++ for 2 CP, are going to weather a lot of fire. For damage output strength 4(with herald buff) and +1 to wound (flickering flames) and reroll hits of 1 and wounds of 1 (daemonspark and DP). At full strength that is 90 shots with a unit that can also move and advance up the field alot faster than cultists. Against most infantry they will be wounding on 2s or 3s, unfortunately no AP, but with sheer weight of dice these guys are gonna clear a lot and will put wounds on tougher things.
I dont play black legion,I play alpha legion. So if I am running cultist blobs and i dont go first they just get shot appart turn 1, meaning if i want to keep them up its going to cost me 2 CP to pass morale and another 2 to bring them back. Even more CP to use the offensive stratagems mentioned above. Id rather use that CP on my other units like my oblits or havocs which are more efficient uses of those strats IMO.
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