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Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Necrons are always the hard one for me.
Trying to choose between 4+ to wound rolls with -2 to saves or 2+ to wound rolls with no save modifier.
Plasma seems to be the best gun for hitting Necrons.

Generally speaking, what kills marine efficiently kills Necron good as well.

That's kind of the problem. Necrons sit in that annoying spot where none of the SIA really stands out as a Necron killer, you're right that Space Marines sit there too but T4 with a 3+ save is just frustrating. Best SIA can do is help you start pumping rounds into the enemy a tad earlier.

 Primark G wrote:
@ bort

I like your list but would you consider moving the leviathan to the DW detachment for deep striking and other goodness.

Yeah...That was how my lists kept starting, but due to points and/or 50% PL restrictions I kept ending up with something like a bunch of Hellblasters or Aggressors not DSing if the Leviathan does. They would be more survivable turn 1, but not shoot nearly as effectively. I figured moving it to RG at least gives the -1 to be hit and the guard can screen it. That RG detachment could be folded back in to the DW. I think I originally had a few Scouts or something else nonDW legal in there too to make it more relevant.

Sounds legit. Good luck with it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Necrons are always the hard one for me.
Trying to choose between 4+ to wound rolls with -2 to saves or 2+ to wound rolls with no save modifier.
Plasma seems to be the best gun for hitting Necrons.

What we ought to do is make a chart for the Special Ammunition and where to use it for both the Storm Bolter Vets and the Primaris Bolt Rifles. We can argue about Bolt Carbines vs Bolt Rifles any other day, but how about we get a chart going otherwise? I can volunteer time tomorrow to do that hopefully

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450/728413.page#9979051 Already did that.

As for which round to use: whatever ammo lets you rapid fire. If you're already in range to rapid fire with everything, vengeance rounds.

 SputnikDX wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Necrons are always the hard one for me.
Trying to choose between 4+ to wound rolls with -2 to saves or 2+ to wound rolls with no save modifier.
Plasma seems to be the best gun for hitting Necrons.

What we ought to do is make a chart for the Special Ammunition and where to use it for both the Storm Bolter Vets and the Primaris Bolt Rifles. We can argue about Bolt Carbines vs Bolt Rifles any other day, but how about we get a chart going otherwise? I can volunteer time tomorrow to do that hopefully

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/450/728413.page#9979051 Already did that.

As for which round to use: whatever ammo lets you rapid fire. If you're already in range to rapid fire with everything, vengeance rounds.

Also, thanks again for putting in the work here. Your analysis was super helpful as well.

Hey guys, I'd like to know how to kit out a primaris squad designed for fire support. I'm trying to make a 2k DW list allied with BA, where the DW provide the shooting and the BA the melee. I'm not going for maximum efficiency with this list. I've red about different variants of fire support squads, (With inceptors, assault plasma's, etc.) and am not sure which one to pick. Maybe you can help me with that.
Currently I have something like this:

1997/2000 pts
DW Batallion detachment:
- Watch Master (Tome of Ectolades, Vigilance Incarnate)
- Librarian (Veil of time, Might of Heroes)
Troops:
- 2 x (5 intercessors, 4 hellblasters, 1 aggressor: Aux grenade launcher, bolt rifles, sgt. Chainswords, Plasma incinerators, boltstorm gauntlets)
- 1 x (5 intercessors, 3 hellblasters, 1 aggressor: Aux grenade launcher, bolt rifles, sgt. Chainswords, Plasma incinerators, boltstorm gauntlets)
Flyer:
- Corvus blackstar (Twin assault cannon, blackstar Rocket Launchers, Auspex Array, Hurricane Bolter)

BA Batallion detachment:
- SM Captain(Jump pack, TH + SS)
- The Sanguinor
Troops:
- 3 x (5 scouts : 1 x HB)
Elite:
- 7 x sanguinary guard

Jetsquirrel wrote:
Hey guys, I'd like to know how to kit out a primaris squad designed for fire support. I'm trying to make a 2k DW list allied with BA, where the DW provide the shooting and the BA the melee. I'm not going for maximum efficiency with this list. I've red about different variants of fire support squads, (With inceptors, assault plasma's, etc.) and am not sure which one to pick. Maybe you can help me with that.
Currently I have something like this:

1997/2000 pts
DW Batallion detachment:
- Watch Master (Tome of Ectolades, Vigilance Incarnate)
- Librarian (Veil of time, Might of Heroes)
Troops:
- 2 x (5 intercessors, 4 hellblasters, 1 aggressor: Aux grenade launcher, bolt rifles, sgt. Chainswords, Plasma incinerators, boltstorm gauntlets)
- 1 x (5 intercessors, 3 hellblasters, 1 aggressor: Aux grenade launcher, bolt rifles, sgt. Chainswords, Plasma incinerators, boltstorm gauntlets)
Flyer:
- Corvus blackstar (Twin assault cannon, blackstar Rocket Launchers, Auspex Array, Hurricane Bolter)

BA Batallion detachment:
- SM Captain(Jump pack, TH + SS)
- The Sanguinor
Troops:
- 3 x (5 scouts : 1 x HB)
Elite:
- 7 x sanguinary guard

Any reason why you have a Blackstar in there? It can't carry Primaris, and nothing else looks like it wants a ride in your list.

Lemondish wrote:

Jetsquirrel wrote:
-snip-

Any reason why you have a Blackstar in there? It can't carry Primaris, and nothing else looks like it wants a ride in your list.

Ehh, I figured it could be used like a gunboat a la stormraven gunship style and be an annoyance. I could replace it, but I don't have a good idea of what to replace it with.

I like it.
Assault Cannons, Hurricane Bolters and Cluster Bombs are great for lessening enemy chaff making it harder for opponents to just mass roll your more elite Vets into the ground.

Jetsquirrel wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Jetsquirrel wrote:
-snip-

Any reason why you have a Blackstar in there? It can't carry Primaris, and nothing else looks like it wants a ride in your list.

Ehh, I figured it could be used like a gunboat a la stormraven gunship style and be an annoyance. I could replace it, but I don't have a good idea of what to replace it with.

I had a similar thought. It could be effective at shooting in hover mode with no "- " for shooting heavy weapons. You will loose your Hard to hit however. Really wish it had power of the machine spirit. It is supposed to be a spec ops type badass flyer.

It does kind of have offsets in re-rolling ones when shooting flyers or units in cover, plus whatever mission tactic you chose.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
It does kind of have offsets in re-rolling ones when shooting flyers or units in cover, plus whatever mission tactic you chose.

It doesn't benefit from mission tactics sadly.

I think the best way to run Intercessors is spam some five man squads each with one Hellblaster.

Yeah no vehicles. Too bad. SIA too. I'd gladly pay extra for the hurricane bolters to shoot SIA.

Lemondish wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
It does kind of have offsets in re-rolling ones when shooting flyers or units in cover, plus whatever mission tactic you chose.

It doesn't benefit from mission tactics sadly.

Pity I haven't got my Codex on me, I'm sure there was a way of getting re-rolls on the blackstar.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
It does kind of have offsets in re-rolling ones when shooting flyers or units in cover, plus whatever mission tactic you chose.

It doesn't benefit from mission tactics sadly.

Pity I haven't got my Codex on me, I'm sure there was a way of getting re-rolls on the blackstar.

I mean you'll have ways to reroll to hit but that's about it.

Just messing with Battlescribe, you can do a Terminator Watch Captain with a Storm Bolter, wrist Grenade Launcher, and a Melta Power Fist for a kinda shooty character. Do what you will with that info.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
It does kind of have offsets in re-rolling ones when shooting flyers or units in cover, plus whatever mission tactic you chose.

It doesn't benefit from mission tactics sadly.

Pity I haven't got my Codex on me, I'm sure there was a way of getting re-rolls on the blackstar.

If it takes an auspex array it can reroll 1s against units that cannot fly.

Any good sources you guys know about for Terminator power weapons that aren't fists? If I want to run minimum cost Terminators in my lists, I definitely don't want power fists. As far as I know the regular Terminator kit only comes with 1 power sword.

Kromlech?

I've come up with a 1000 point Battalion that can simply just be doubled to get yourself a nice 2000 point list for 13 command points.

Deathwatch Battalion 1000 Points

I disagree with putting a Vanguard Vet in any squad with that many Frag Cannons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I disagree with putting a Vanguard Vet in any squad with that many Frag Cannons.

Acts as an ablative wound later in the match while making you immune to being silenced by stupid gak like Wave Serpents flying into you.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I disagree with putting a Vanguard Vet in any squad with that many Frag Cannons.

Why specifically? The Vanguard is just there for fall back and shoot.

 SputnikDX wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I disagree with putting a Vanguard Vet in any squad with that many Frag Cannons.

Why specifically? The Vanguard is just there for fall back and shoot.

With 6D6 shots during Overwatch and that many attacks in melee, it can be saved points or another Vet with a Storm Bolter. For a camping squad with Stalkers or Heavy Weapons it makes sense, but here the squad will either be shot to death (in which case the Vanguard isn't really a cheap body, so to speak), or they mostly melt everything on Overwatch. That's 7 dead Berserker Marines and 9 Genestealers dead alone from the Frag Cannons.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 SputnikDX wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I disagree with putting a Vanguard Vet in any squad with that many Frag Cannons.

Why specifically? The Vanguard is just there for fall back and shoot.

With 6D6 shots during Overwatch and that many attacks in melee, it can be saved points or another Vet with a Storm Bolter. For a camping squad with Stalkers or Heavy Weapons it makes sense, but here the squad will either be shot to death (in which case the Vanguard isn't really a cheap body, so to speak), or they mostly melt everything on Overwatch. That's 7 dead Berserker Marines and 9 Genestealers dead alone from the Frag Cannons.

Or they just get charged by a rhino and all that dakka is gone for a turn. While you're right in that nothing is going to want to charge them, it's such a big squad and so much firepower that something will have to be done, and getting charged by something just to shut them down seems likely.

I've definitely had my Frag Cannon squads for whatever reason leave a single guy alive and lose their next round of shooting enough times to find a cheap Vanguard worth it. If you dual pistol them they actually contribute pretty well since Frag Cannons mean you're more or less running in pistol range anyway.

whats everyone's opinion on either a watch captain or go primaris captain?

ballzonya wrote:
whats everyone's opinion on either a watch captain or go primaris captain?

I think watch captains will win out. They can fit in the good transports and have more options like jump packs, terminator armor and even just on foot. If you want you can take a Primaris Watch Captain for 97 points and have a MC auto bolt rifle (or stalker they're the same points) w/ power sword and bolt pistol or for 83 points have a Watch Captain with 1 less wound and attack who has a storm bolter (IMO a better gun than the primaris options) and power sword (That's if you didn't want to buy better gear like a power fist to even up the points).

I'm still banking on the terminator captain with a combi melta and melta fist coming down to duel a dreadnought.

ballzonya wrote:
whats everyone's opinion on either a watch captain or go primaris captain?

Watch Captains can take transports, deep strike with a jump pack, take good melee weapons like thunder hammers, rock storm shields, take the ever sought after Storm Bolter, and don't cost $35.

The Primaris Watch Captain gets +1 wound and +1 attack. With a power sword. Yeah.

 SputnikDX wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
whats everyone's opinion on either a watch captain or go primaris captain?

take the ever sought after Storm Bolter

AND put Bane Bolts in it....