Space Marines - Upcoming Releases [News: FAQ August 10th]

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Desubot**

AegisGrimm wrote:

Spoiler:

Kanluwen wrote:
NivlacSupreme wrote:
These guys are quickly becoming Stormcasts. They have no options and are expensive as feth.

Stormcast have options though...

They came when we got the book/rules for the individual kits.
That's when we got Liberators with Shields/Swords, Shields/Hammers, Hammers/Dagger, Sword/Dagger--and one model in the group can take a Greatblade or Greathammer.
That's when we got the two remaining types of Paladins (Decimators with their axes that let you hit a boatload of things at once and Protectors that have the glaive that can let them negate ranged attacks) and the addition of the Stormsoul Mace "special weapon".
That's when we got the alternate build for Prosecutors with the Stormcall Javelins and when we got the hammer/shield or hammer/hammer profiles and where both got the option of the trident as a "special weapon".
Or Judicators with their Bow or Crossbow option with the special bow option as well.

What I'm getting at in the end is that Age of Sigmar had things broken down differently to 40k. You have some things getting entirely new profiles for what amount to weapon options(Paladins and Prosecutors) and other things getting weapon options.

Who's to say which way Primaris are going to go?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

AegisGrimm wrote:
insaniak wrote:
Fayric wrote:

Edit: And for what its worth, buying a power armour captain has always been a waste of money.

Not entirely true. The plastic kit was a great source of weapons, if nothing else.

This new guy? Not so much.

But....two kinds of bolter magazines with an ugly join! That doesn't count as the advertised "selection of weapons"?

Seriously, doesn't hold a candle to the old multi-part captain, at a much higher price. Hell, at least two of the Stormcast models priced the same come with a gryph-hound, as well, even if they are still expensive.

The Lord-Castellant(first Gryph-Hound model, was part of the original Stormcast launch) is $40.
The Lord-Veritant(a more recent model that was part of the Stormcast Redux release) is $33.

And honestly, I think people are remembering the old Commander box with rose tinted glasses. Because it was a multi-part plastic you could certainly do some nice things with it...but without kitbashing it was just as "meh" as any other plastic Marine HQ kit has been, just with the added bonus of being able to position the arms a bit better I guess?

So one stormcast character with a gryph is 5 bucks more, and one is actually 2 dollars less than either Primaris character.

And rose colored glasses? The commander kit I am talking of is the one still sold for $22.95, and comes with three different heads, 4 ranged options for the right arm and 4 melee options for the left, plus several seperate bits like back banner, iron halo, etc. It's a helluva better deal than the Primaris captain that's over 10 dollars more.

that cardboard boxed kit is very nice but is also VERY dated.

not that im for or against it. i just hate the older plastic kits compared to the newer ones.

**Kanluwen**

AegisGrimm wrote:

So one stormcast character with a gryph is 5 bucks more, and one is actually 2 dollars less than either Primaris character.

You said they were the same price. I was simply pointing out that there was a $7 price difference between the two kits based upon when they came out.

The Lord-Castellant was $40. He was our first Gryph-Hound character.
The Lord-Veritant came out way later and was $33.

No clue what changed between the Castellant and the Veritant. Who knows how much the next characters released might be?

And rose colored glasses? The commander kit I am talking of is the one still sold for $22.95, and comes with three different heads, 4 ranged options for the right arm and 4 melee options for the left, plus several seperate bits like back banner, iron halo, etc. It's a helluva better deal than the Primaris captain that's over 10 dollars more.

Yet those "4 ranged options and 4 melee options" end up making a pose not unlike the Primaris Captain...
Gun held out to the side/down low and waving/pointing melee.

That's why I'm talking about rose colored glasses. He might have had more optional bits but the way the body was posed and the way the arms worked for him, there wasn't really going to be a huge difference between your Commander and mine unless we did a lot of converting.

Yet here we have people trying to act like the Commander kit gave you endless options to make amazing wonder. No. That wasn't what did it--it was the interchangeability with the standard Marine kits.

**MajorWesJanson**

Bull0 wrote:
Speculation, but the power pack and cable on the plasma incinerator probably provides some small benefit like how the box mag on a bolt rifle makes it an "auto" bolt rifle with an extra attack. Either that or it's purely cosmetic. My bet's on the former.

I'd lean towards cosmetic, like how for the longest time tactical squads had missile launchers while devastator had the loading backpacks for them with no real rules difference.

**Galas**

Spoiler:

You are right, the space marine commander kit was nice but nothing out of this world.

The Empire Wizard kit in the other hand, the Greenskin Orc Warboss and the Empire General? Those were TRUE modular kits. Plus, 2 characters for something like 24€

**CMLR**

SC! Sold Out Skitarii on UK page:

However, this seems to happen when a Index + SC! bundle is Sold Out, so don't expect to much.

**JohnnyHell**

Chikout wrote:
Gw's release schedule is mystifying. This week we get 2 character minis. Next week we get 2 starter sets, 4 easy build sets, numerous painting sets and some new cards.

Because they come in a non-GW store FSDU/dumpbin display unit. It's an intro range for toy and hobby stores as much as anything. Not really mystifying.

**H.B.M.C.**

Bull0 wrote:
Speculation, but the power pack and cable on the plasma incinerator probably provides some small benefit like how the box mag on a bolt rifle makes it an "auto" bolt rifle with an extra attack. Either that or it's purely cosmetic. My bet's on the former.

Or the multi-part kit allows for more detail because it doesn't have to be crammed in with other NuMarines.

**Kanluwen**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Bull0 wrote:
Speculation, but the power pack and cable on the plasma incinerator probably provides some small benefit like how the box mag on a bolt rifle makes it an "auto" bolt rifle with an extra attack. Either that or it's purely cosmetic. My bet's on the former.

I'd lean towards cosmetic, like how for the longest time tactical squads had missile launchers while devastator had the loading backpacks for them with no real rules difference.

I could get behind that if Hellblasters weren't billed as a kind of Havoc/Devastator squad.

It might be their version of a normal Plasma Cannon, with the backpack to differentiate from the Plasma Incinerators?

**Kirasu**

AegisGrimm wrote:

And honestly, I think people are remembering the old Commander box with rose tinted glasses. Because it was a multi-part plastic you could certainly do some nice things with it...but without kitbashing it was just as "meh" as any other plastic Marine HQ kit has been, just with the added bonus of being able to position the arms a bit better I guess?

So one stormcast character with a gryph is 5 bucks more, and one is actually 2 dollars less than either Primaris character.

And rose colored glasses? The commander kit I am talking of is the one still sold for $22.95, and comes with three different heads, 4 ranged options for the right arm and 4 melee options for the left, plus several seperate bits like back banner, iron halo, etc. It's a helluva better deal than the Primaris captain that's over 10 dollars more.

The commander kit for its time was fine, but it's not a very useful or varied kit. As others have said, it produces the same pose every time and the weapon options themselves are subpar (IE one lightning claw).. you're almost ALWAYS better off using a vanguard vet (or sternguard) kit for a custom character.

**tneva82**

Kirasu wrote:
The commander kit for its time was fine, but it's not a very useful or varied kit. As others have said, it produces the same pose every time and the weapon options themselves are subpar (IE one lightning claw).. you're almost ALWAYS better off using a vanguard vet (or sternguard) kit for a custom character.

And how more expensive kit with even less options is better?

**Sgt. Cortez**

I like that new DG champion with plasma gun on the back. Now we know why that option is even possible in the index

.

Can any AoS players say if these smaller starter sets will stay for a while or are they short-term boxes to get people into the game and then will disappear in short time, like the Knights box for example?

**privateer4hire**

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
I like that new DG champion with plasma gun on the back. Now we know why that option is even possible in the index .

Can any AoS players say if these smaller starter sets will stay for a while or are they short-term boxes to get people into the game and then will disappear in short time, like the Knights box for example?

The smaller starter sets for AoS are new, too. The core starter was only recently broken out into characters only boxes and the-rest-of-the-starter models boxes.

**hypnoticeris**

Galas wrote:

You are right, the space marine commander kit was nice but nothing out of this world.

The Empire Wizard kit in the other hand, the Greenskin Orc Warboss and the Empire General? Those were TRUE modular kits. Plus, 2 characters for something like 24€

I believe they did a kit in tht style for High elves too. Anyway those where truly great kits, every moduar character kit shoul be like those, changing a head and a weapon is not really modular. The poses might be a bit less epic, but it's easier to get WYSIWYG. I found them great to do build the secondary hq choices of the army, where i do not mind sqcrificing an epic pose for for more options (and a lower pricer tab).

**AegisGrimm**

Kirasu wrote:
AegisGrimm wrote:

And honestly, I think people are remembering the old Commander box with rose tinted glasses. Because it was a multi-part plastic you could certainly do some nice things with it...but without kitbashing it was just as "meh" as any other plastic Marine HQ kit has been, just with the added bonus of being able to position the arms a bit better I guess?

So one stormcast character with a gryph is 5 bucks more, and one is actually 2 dollars less than either Primaris character.

And rose colored glasses? The commander kit I am talking of is the one still sold for $22.95, and comes with three different heads, 4 ranged options for the right arm and 4 melee options for the left, plus several seperate bits like back banner, iron halo, etc. It's a helluva better deal than the Primaris captain that's over 10 dollars more.

The commander kit for its time was fine, but it's not a very useful or varied kit. As others have said, it produces the same pose every time and the weapon options themselves are subpar (IE one lightning claw).. you're almost ALWAYS better off using a vanguard vet (or sternguard) kit for a custom character.

That's literally why people are griping about the 35 dollar Primaris Captain. With very little conversion, any of the Bolt Rifle-wielding characters from the starter could be used instead for dramatically cheaper.

**His Master's Voice**

tneva82 wrote:
And how more expensive kit with even less options is better?

Well, it's a better miniature on a purely technical level. So there's that.

**Kanluwen**

hypnoticeris wrote:
Galas wrote:

You are right, the space marine commander kit was nice but nothing out of this world.

The Empire Wizard kit in the other hand, the Greenskin Orc Warboss and the Empire General? Those were TRUE modular kits. Plus, 2 characters for something like 24€

I believe they did a kit in tht style for High elves too. Anyway those where truly great kits, every moduar character kit shoul be like those, changing a head and a weapon is not really modular. The poses might be a bit less epic, but it's easier to get WYSIWYG. I found them great to do build the secondary hq choices of the army, where i do not mind sqcrificing an epic pose for for more options (and a lower pricer tab).

They did a kit for the Orc Warboss, Empire General, Empire Wizards, High Elf Princes, and High Elf Archmages.
There was a Dwarf Lord kit that was sculpted and got to the sprue stage but never went into production.

Additionally those kits suffered from the same issue as the Commander kit. They became static, one-dimensional models as you added more of them to your army. Those kits really hit their strides when you dove into your bits box to improve upon them.

**Bull0**

That plastic Commander kit predates all the plastic sternguard, vanguard, etc. It used to be one of the only ways (possibly the only way) to get a plastic combi-melta or combi-plasma. It was and is a great kit and is miles better in terms of design, utility and value for money than the new primaris captain.

**AegisGrimm**

Yeah, technically the only thing things the Primaris Captain has over the existing Captain is that it's A: it's a prettier sculpt and B: it's bigger. Not sure if that's worth 50% more.

**Kanluwen**

AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, technically the only thing things the Primaris Captain has over the existing Captain is that it's A: it's a prettier sculpt and B: it's bigger. Not sure if that's worth 50% more.

Is the Space Marine Commander worth $22.25?
Yes or no?

**Rinkydink**

Some of the models are great, the librarian especially. I also like the standard Primaris helmets and GW plastics are great albeit expensive. But personally, I'm really all Space Marine'd out. I cannot even fathom beginning another SM army. (Which I'd reluctantly do if I bought any Primaris.)

I'll wait until regular SM's are phased out and my angry helmet and beakies will be Primaris by default. Also FW might get back to making the odd non-SM model by then too.

**Kanluwen**

Bull0 wrote:
That plastic Commander kit predates all the plastic sternguard, vanguard, etc. It used to be one of the only ways (possibly the only way) to get a plastic combi-melta or combi-plasma. It was and is a great kit and is miles better in terms of design, utility and value for money than the new primaris captain.

It also was present in virtually every holiday boxed set that GW did for Marines and now rots on the shelves because while it's such a great kit(

lol...) it doesn't have updated options to match what people actually were fielding.

**Kirasu**

AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, technically the only thing things the Primaris Captain has over the existing Captain is that it's A: it's a prettier sculpt and B: it's bigger. Not sure if that's worth 50% more.

People might actually buy or use this Primaris Captain? I don't care much for Primaris Marines but it's a bit naive to think that people are actually still buying the old SM captain kit in any statistically relevant numbers. It simply is not a useful kit anymore.

**Crimson**

Rules:

I really hope the Librarian can have a staff in the Codex.

And both of these fancy bolters are trash. Only good thing about them is the double damage via master-crafted, but the base weapons suck. I really don't understand why the auto bolt rifle lacks the range and especially the AP of normal bolt rifle. Don't they fire the same kind of ammo? And why the feth is stalker not a sniper weapon? One shot strength four heavy weapon, whoop-de-doo!

**Geifer**

Kanluwen wrote:
Bull0 wrote:
That plastic Commander kit predates all the plastic sternguard, vanguard, etc. It used to be one of the only ways (possibly the only way) to get a plastic combi-melta or combi-plasma. It was and is a great kit and is miles better in terms of design, utility and value for money than the new primaris captain.

It also was present in virtually every holiday boxed set that GW did for Marines and now rots on the shelves because while it's such a great kit( lol...) it doesn't have updated options to match what people actually were fielding.

Who cares what a kit it is, when the commander kit is defined by what it was?

The commander kit came out at a time when Marines were not half as blinged out as they are today and there were not fancy veteran kits to draw parts from. It had equipment options that were not widely available in other plastic kits. It was a good price that it no longer has thanks to a few price hikes.

Comparing such an old kit one for one with the Primaris Captain is pointless. Comparing the design philosophy behind that kit and relative price is much more worthwhile. And in that, the Primaris Captain does not compare favorably.

**NivlacSupreme**

Geifer wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Bull0 wrote:
That plastic Commander kit predates all the plastic sternguard, vanguard, etc. It used to be one of the only ways (possibly the only way) to get a plastic combi-melta or combi-plasma. It was and is a great kit and is miles better in terms of design, utility and value for money than the new primaris captain.

It also was present in virtually every holiday boxed set that GW did for Marines and now rots on the shelves because while it's such a great kit( lol...) it doesn't have updated options to match what people actually were fielding.

Who cares what a kit it is, when the commander kit is defined by what it was?

The commander kit came out at a time when Marines were not half as blinged out as they are today and there were not fancy veteran kits to draw parts from. It had equipment options that were not widely available in other plastic kits. It was a good price that it no longer has thanks to a few price hikes.

Comparing such an old kit one for one with the Primaris Captain is pointless. Comparing the design philosophy behind that kit and relative price is much more worthwhile. And in that, the Primaris Captain does not compare favorably.

Even now the only HQs cheaper are some finecast ones.

It is actually a nice kit.

**Nevelon**

So the librarian is basically trading away the options to have anything but a BP/force sword and foot slogging for 1W and 1A, points are the same. Not sure it’s right to trade options for stats, but there we are.

Captain pays 13 points for the same stat boost, and also looses out on almost all his options.

If/When we get transports or special rules that only effect primaris marines, these guys might be relevant. Right now the rules are not exciting me.

**Yodhrin**

Kanluwen wrote:
Bull0 wrote:
That plastic Commander kit predates all the plastic sternguard, vanguard, etc. It used to be one of the only ways (possibly the only way) to get a plastic combi-melta or combi-plasma. It was and is a great kit and is miles better in terms of design, utility and value for money than the new primaris captain.

It also was present in virtually every holiday boxed set that GW did for Marines and now rots on the shelves because while it's such a great kit( lol...) it doesn't have updated options to match what people actually were fielding.

Well they've certainly solved that "problem" with the Primaris characters - they don't come with any real options and they don't get any real choice in wargear, you buy them or don't and field them or don't. Nice and simple...

**Player not found**

NivlacSupreme wrote:

Even now the only HQs cheaper are some finecast ones.

It is actually a nice kit.

To each their own. I never liked that kit. While the options were nice, the look of the model in my opinion wasn't, which to me made the kit useless.

Nevelon wrote:
So the librarian is basically trading away the options to have anything but a BP/force sword and foot slogging for 1W and 1A, points are the same. Not sure it’s right to trade options for stats, but there we are.

Captain pays 13 points for the same stat boost, and also looses out on almost all his options.

If/When we get transports or special rules that only effect primaris marines, these guys might be relevant. Right now the rules are not exciting me.

So, you hadn't yet realized that these weren't the full Primaris Captain and Primaris Librarian rules?

These are just the bare-boned rules necessary for people to get by until the new C:SM codex comes out. It lists all the rules necessary to play the model as-is-out-of-the-blister and that's it.

That the weapon options are currently limited (rules-wise) doesn't mean they'll remain so once the codex comes out.

**Nevelon**

Player not found wrote:

Nevelon wrote:
So the librarian is basically trading away the options to have anything but a BP/force sword and foot slogging for 1W and 1A, points are the same. Not sure it’s right to trade options for stats, but there we are.

Captain pays 13 points for the same stat boost, and also looses out on almost all his options.

If/When we get transports or special rules that only effect primaris marines, these guys might be relevant. Right now the rules are not exciting me.

So, you hadn't yet realized that these weren't the full Primaris Captain and Primaris Librarian rules?

These are just the bare-boned rules necessary for people to get by until the new C:SM codex comes out. It lists all the rules necessary to play the model as-is-out-of-the-blister and that's it.

That the weapon options are currently limited (rules-wise) doesn't mean they'll remain so once the codex comes out.

Hopefully.

GW has in the past restricted gear options to what’s in the kit. Look at the 7th ed rules for the contemptor dreadnought. Even with a massive pile of parts that FW sold, the only options it had were the ones in the box. Same with the new terminators as well.

So while I hope you are right and we’ll get more options once the full codex drops, I’m not holding my breath.

**Geifer**

Well, at least we have confirmation that there will be a generic Marine codex, not a separate Primaris one.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

NivlacSupreme wrote:
Geifer wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
Bull0 wrote:
That plastic Commander kit predates all the plastic sternguard, vanguard, etc. It used to be one of the only ways (possibly the only way) to get a plastic combi-melta or combi-plasma. It was and is a great kit and is miles better in terms of design, utility and value for money than the new primaris captain.

It also was present in virtually every holiday boxed set that GW did for Marines and now rots on the shelves because while it's such a great kit( lol...) it doesn't have updated options to match what people actually were fielding.

Who cares what a kit it is, when the commander kit is defined by what it was?

The commander kit came out at a time when Marines were not half as blinged out as they are today and there were not fancy veteran kits to draw parts from. It had equipment options that were not widely available in other plastic kits. It was a good price that it no longer has thanks to a few price hikes.

Comparing such an old kit one for one with the Primaris Captain is pointless. Comparing the design philosophy behind that kit and relative price is much more worthwhile. And in that, the Primaris Captain does not compare favorably.

Even now the only HQs cheaper are some finecast ones.

It is actually a nice kit.

Yeah, I bought three back in the day. I do have a few issues with the kit, but it's been a good one. And I certainly can't say I'd buy any of the new clamshell characters more than once, if I found them priced well enough to consider them in the first place.