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 Silentz wrote:
So... shock grenades -1 to hit lasts until the end of the turn. Which means there's no way to make them last into your opponent's shooting phase.

I guess... you overwatch with them? So they get -1 to hit in combat.

Since it doesn't allow them to overwatch, it seems it's more of a tool to soften up a unit even further for combat rather than blinding them for shooting.

No overwatch at the first charging unit, then -1 to hit when fighting back in combat.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Everyone should stop panicking about these rules from the starter set. We have no idea if these are the full rules. We do know they'll have other weapon options.

As for infiltrate, we don't even know if the starter set uses normal deployment. I think I read that it has markings on one side of the mat showing you where to set everyone up. If so, there'd be no reason to say anything more - at least for the purposes of that game. It doesn't even seem to use the morale rules, so expecting stuff like deep strike or infiltrate to happen is pretty silly.

For what it's worth, even as they stand, 18 point guys with two wounds and 3 attacks actually aren't that bad at all. There are plenty of ways you could use them. They aren't amazing, it's true.

This. People aren't freaking out about the First Strike dataslate for Deathguard with 3 models and no options, so why is everyone so uppity about the Reiver slate? They will obviously get full rules in another month in the Codex. Are people so hard up for power armored scouts that they need Reivers to be a fully viable competitive unit starting this week?

Sooner than that for the Marine Codex it looks like. I fully expect to see it out or up for preorder by the 22nd. This Friday they'll be doing a game showing it and the Redemptor off.

 JJ wrote:

 Silentz wrote:
So... shock grenades -1 to hit lasts until the end of the turn. Which means there's no way to make them last into your opponent's shooting phase.

I guess... you overwatch with them? So they get -1 to hit in combat.

Since it doesn't allow them to overwatch, it seems it's more of a tool to soften up a unit even further for combat rather than blinding them for shooting.

No overwatch at the first charging unit, then -1 to hit when fighting back in combat.

I read it as it can do ether . You declare when you use it ether they can't overwatch this phase as they are blinds or they get -1 in their phase as its partially worn off

 Silentz wrote:
So... shock grenades -1 to hit lasts until the end of the turn. Which means there's no way to make them last into your opponent's shooting phase.

I guess... you overwatch with them? So they get -1 to hit in combat.

What are you talking about?

They toss their shock grenade into a unit, then charge said unit, who cannot fire overwatch, then the Reivers beat on 'em in close combat. Then if there's any enemy models left, they fight back at -1 to hit. That's pretty awesome.

 CURNOW wrote:


I read it as it can do ether . You declare when you use it ether they can't overwatch this phase as they are blinds or they get -1 in their phase as its partially worn off

Where are you getting the 'or' from...?

I have a feeling that the overwhelming majority of people participating in the judgment of this unit actually have not played a single game of 8th edition.

 judgedoug wrote:
I have a feeling that the overwhelming majority of people participating in the judgment of this unit actually have not played a single game of 8th edition.

I can't hear you over the Nikes in your mouth.

 judgedoug wrote:
I have a feeling that the overwhelming majority of people participating in the judgment of this unit actually have not played a single game of 8th edition.

Hey, I have played and and I even tried footslogging a move six assault unit across the table! It didn't make it...

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I have a feeling that the overwhelming majority of people participating in the judgment of this unit actually have not played a single game of 8th edition.

I can't hear you over the Nikes in your mouth.

oh man you're so cool dude!


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 Crimson wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I have a feeling that the overwhelming majority of people participating in the judgment of this unit actually have not played a single game of 8th edition.

Hey, I have played and and I even tried footslogging a move six assault unit across the table! It didn't make it...

I'm mainly talking about the misrepresentation of the unit's abilities. Where did this weird interpretation of "-1 to hit" somehow imply shooting only? What a weird, medged, strawman/misrepresentation, just to be like "GW suxx hurk!"

Though footsloggers are even more survivable in this edition, thanks to glorious bulletproof Nikes.

 judgedoug wrote:
I have a feeling that the overwhelming majority of people participating in the judgment of this unit actually have not played a single game of 8th edition.

Which is actually fairly irrelevant because there are a few core true-isms that remain in every edition of 40k. An assault based unit which has NO movement increasing abilities, moves slow, has weak shooting firepower, weak close combat power and average durability is categorically a terrible unit. What exactly are Reivers supposed to do? They have virtually no benefit over Intercessors (which are already also bad) unless you honestly believe +1 attack after moving 24" across the board is good?

I would go as far as to say that Reivers are in fact the worst assault oriented unit in the entire space marine codex. Worse than even assault marines with no transports or jump packs because at least they get flamers and sergeants with options.

Well if you are trying to prove how bad they are don't be surprised if you succeed. I can see at least three solid uses for these guys, one of which is as simple as 'put them in a transport' but I'm getting the distinct impression that opinions are set and there's little point in trying to inject optimism.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well if you are trying to prove how bad they are don't be surprised if you succeed. I can see at least three solid uses for these guys, one of which is as simple as 'put them in a transport' but I'm getting the distinct impression that opinions are set and there's little point in trying to inject optimism.

Yes, put them in the 300+ pt transport. That's a winning strategy...

There is nothing these things do that Intercessors don't do better.

 Kirasu wrote:
They have virtually no benefit over Intercessors

Reivers are 90 points for a baseline squad of five, and Inceptors 225 for three.

The reason Inceptors are bad isn't their statline, it's their cost.

As far as Intercessors... they're 100 points for 10 T4 3+ wounds, and as the icing on the cake, have 30 inch ap-1 boltguns. They're a solid troops choice that will provided point per point more survivability than any other marine troops choice. Stick them in cover on a home objective, and have them shoot away at anything in range. If anything's shooting at or assaulting the intercessors, they're not shooting at your more expensive damage dealer units, and so they've done their job.

Seriously Intercessors are amazingly durable for their points.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well if you are trying to prove how bad they are don't be surprised if you succeed. I can see at least three solid uses for these guys, one of which is as simple as 'put them in a transport' but I'm getting the distinct impression that opinions are set and there's little point in trying to inject optimism.

Yes, put them in the 300+ pt transport. That's a winning strategy...

There is nothing these things do that Intercessors don't do better.

not true at all. they can ASSAULT much better. the problem is getting them into assault range, assuming the only primaris transport is the repulsor tank, the unit is looking at a 300 point tank that costs around 90 bucks (if not more) as a transport.


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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well if you are trying to prove how bad they are don't be surprised if you succeed. I can see at least three solid uses for these guys, one of which is as simple as 'put them in a transport' but I'm getting the distinct impression that opinions are set and there's little point in trying to inject optimism.

I think they'll have their uses but the lack of infiltrate or deep strike rightly has people bummed. that saiod it's possiable it'll be a war gear choice.

 Melissia wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
They have virtually no benefit over Intercessors

Reivers are 90 points for a baseline squad of five, and Inceptors 225 for three.

The reason Inceptors are bad isn't their statline, it's their cost.

As far as Intercessors... they're 100 points for 10 T4 3+ wounds, and as the icing on the cake, have 30 inch ap-1 boltguns. They're a solid troops choice that will provided point per point more survivability than any other marine troops choice. Stick them in cover on a home objective, and have them shoot away at anything in range. If anything's shooting at or assaulting the intercessors, they're not shooting at your more expensive damage dealer units, and so they've done their job.

Seriously Intercessors are amazingly durable for their points.

I don't think anyone was comparing them to the criminally overpriced Inceptors. Intercessors compared to Reivers is a good comparison. 10 points buys double the shots and much better range. Plus, they fill the troop slot, which helps get more command points.

When given the choice of what I am putting in my stupid upgunned Floaty Raider, I am not wasting my time with Reivers.


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BrianDavion wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Well if you are trying to prove how bad they are don't be surprised if you succeed. I can see at least three solid uses for these guys, one of which is as simple as 'put them in a transport' but I'm getting the distinct impression that opinions are set and there's little point in trying to inject optimism.

Yes, put them in the 300+ pt transport. That's a winning strategy...

There is nothing these things do that Intercessors don't do better.

not true at all. they can ASSAULT much better. the problem is getting them into assault range, assuming the only primaris transport is the repulsor tank, the unit is looking at a 300 point tank that costs around 90 bucks (if not more) as a transport

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I don't think anyone was comparing them to the criminally overpriced Inceptors. Intercessors compared to Reivers is a good comparison. 10 points buys double the shots and much better range.

But also loses you important special rules that make Reivers function. The main thing intercessors have going for them is durability, not offense. IMO, Reivers will make for a good choice alongside intercessors. Especially if people think like you are, and underestimate the reivers thus firing at the intercessors, allowing both units to fulfill their primary role (intercessors as meatshields, reivers as assaulters).

All these pages about how crappy this datasheet.. that might not even be the codex version of the unit is.. and my big takeaway is people are indicating that Faction Keywords might not work the way I thought they did.. lol come on people... I see enough sky is falling crap on social media.. wait for the official rules before passing judgement on these.. (or don't.. whatever..)

 MLaw wrote:
All these pages about how crappy this datasheet.. that might not even be the codex version of the unit is.. and my big takeaway is people are indicating that Faction Keywords might not work the way I thought they did.. lol come on people... I see enough sky is falling crap on social media.. wait for the official rules before passing judgement on these.. (or don't.. whatever..)

The issue is that the red text pretty much shows that the Reivers won't have an Infiltrate derivative. If they were going to put the red text there saying that certain abilities won't be used for First Strike or whatever, why would they not include the Infiltrate ability? I am not saying that there is a 0% chance they won't have the ability, but there isn't any concrete evidence that they will. And as it stands, that translates to Reivers being dependent on the expensive Floaty Raider to get to where they need to be. Intercessors and Hellblasters have range to do what they do, Reivers need to be close. And if they can't get there, they are garbage.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
All these pages about how crappy this datasheet.. that might not even be the codex version of the unit is.. and my big takeaway is people are indicating that Faction Keywords might not work the way I thought they did.. lol come on people... I see enough sky is falling crap on social media.. wait for the official rules before passing judgement on these.. (or don't.. whatever..)

The issue is that the red text pretty much shows that the Reivers won't have an Infiltrate derivative. If they were going to put the red text there saying that certain abilities won't be used for First Strike or whatever, why would they not include the Infiltrate ability? I am not saying that there is a 0% chance they won't have the ability, but there isn't any concrete evidence that they will.

Argument invalid - they have the "Ultramarine" keyword, which again points to these being specific to the box set and beginners.
No concrete evidence for either outcome can be derived from their dataslate. Only time.
For now, it would be best to be frugal with ones purchases.

Is everyone forgetting that synergy is everything in 8th edition? Maybe there is another new unit or character that gives them an infiltrate ability or increased movement speed or some other buff that makes them a more potent unit.

Chikout wrote:
Is everyone forgetting that synergy is everything in 8th edition? Maybe there is another new unit or character that gives them an infiltrate ability or increased movement speed or some other buff that makes them a more potent unit.

So they cost 2-3x as much and take up and additional HQ or Elite slot. Sounds great. Almost as great as requiring a 300+ point Floaty Raider.

why are people assuming the repulsor is gonna be 300 points?

I'm betting on 200 to 250 myself

stratigo wrote:
why are people assuming the repulsor is gonna be 300 points?

I'm betting on 200 to 250 myself

Because it has at least three Lascannons (25 pts each), a bunch of missile pods, a heavy stubber, and comes on Land Raider-sized hover chassis. Even if it costs 250 pts, it is at least double the price of any of our other transports and the only option for Primaris Marines. Terminators and Jump Pack Troops don't need a Stormraven or Land Raider to deploy in a useful fashion. Primaris Marines only have one unit that is not beholden to an expensive transport, and they cost 225 pts for three of them.

I really think we have to wait for the Marine Codex before we can truly judge the effectiveness of the Rievers.

We have new Marine psychic powers coming which could have a big impact, but we also have new kits for Primaris too.

We know the Repulsor is coming as a transport but I really wouldn't be surprised if there were some sort of flyer coming too (although I doubt it will be the Overlord).

StraightSilver wrote:
I really think we have to wait for the Marine Codex before we can truly judge the effectiveness of the Rievers.

We have new Marine psychic powers coming which could have a big impact, but we also have new kits for Primaris too.

We know the Repulsor is coming as a transport but I really wouldn't be surprised if there were some sort of flyer coming too (although I doubt it will be the Overlord).

Why wouldn't it be the overlord? As stated in the book, its basically like a Corvus Blackstar, just slightly bigger. Though it also has void shields so I don't think that's happening, but maybe a invuln save.

str00dles1 wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
I really think we have to wait for the Marine Codex before we can truly judge the effectiveness of the Rievers.

We have new Marine psychic powers coming which could have a big impact, but we also have new kits for Primaris too.

We know the Repulsor is coming as a transport but I really wouldn't be surprised if there were some sort of flyer coming too (although I doubt it will be the Overlord).

Why wouldn't it be the overlord? As stated in the book, its basically like a Corvus Blackstar, just slightly bigger. Though it also has void shields so I don't think that's happening, but maybe a invuln save.

Slightly bigger? It was described dwarfing Thunderhawks...

1st Turn Assaults.

Reivers may not be able to make them, but they can be on the receiving end of them. They are cheaper and better screening unit than intersessors

Can still play a grey knight (for example) in a space marine army?

I'm the only one that has seen the drawings of the Reivers with gravchutes? IS obvious that the full kit versión is gonna have deepstrike rule

casdark wrote:
Can still play a grey knight (for example) in a space marine army?

Yeah, you can have a grey knight detachment with a space marine detachment and still be battleforged, as they both share the Imperium keyword.
I don't think you can have GKs and Space Marines in the same detachment though. Not that it matters because there are such things as auxillery detachments.

EDIT : It turns out you totally can mix GKs and Marines in the same detachment, as the only restriction is that they must share a faction keyword. They both have imperium.