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 NorseSig wrote:
I just hope the codex has decent formatting and arrangement unlike the indicies. Those things are horrible. Things all over the place. Hate jumping around for everything. And I hope the Iron Hands section is bigger this time. Seems to get smaller every edition.

I doubt it - unless they do new Iron hands models - they won't bother. Best chance if they do a Iron hands Primaris Character, but I bet that one of the Snowflake Chapters will get them - likely Ultras or Wolves

 Crimson wrote:
Should there have been a new Chapter Focus today?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/18/chapter-focus-white-scars-july18gw-homepage-post-3/

Ta-da!

It is a bit meh that the stratagem only affects bikes.

We have are first incarnation of wibbly wobbly rules balancing. Same book, yet this CT flat out blows when compared to the last two.

 Red Corsair wrote:
We have are first incarnation of wibbly wobbly rules balancing. Same book, yet this CT flat out blows when compared to the last two.

How so? If it works for Harlequins, it works for marines. They can fallback and charge too, right?
And for an assault orientated army this is an effective ability, as they can immediately get back into combat and strike first whilst avoiding enemy fire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
It is a bit meh that the stratagem only affects bikes.

Makes sense though. White Scars is the biker army, right? Why wouldn't their stratagem affect bikes?

 Crimson wrote:
It is a bit meh that the stratagem only affects bikes.

But it doesn't?

It says models with Chapter Tactics(which means Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnoughts) move an extra 2" in addition to the distance rolled. They can Fall Back and still Charge as well.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is a bit meh that the stratagem only affects bikes.

But it doesn't?

It says models with Chapter Tactics(which means Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnoughts) move an extra 2" in addition to the distance rolled. They can Fall Back and still Charge as well.

The White Scars Stratagem, Born in the Saddle, allows White Scars bikers to advance, shoot, and charge.

Not the Chapter tactics.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
We have are first incarnation of wibbly wobbly rules balancing. Same book, yet this CT flat out blows when compared to the last two.

How so? If it works for Harlequins, it works for marines.

Well first off, bikes are not very good this edition, at least marine bikes. Maybe that changes but so far I am seeing bikes abandoned outside themed lists. Then the CT is flat worse then the UM or RG one, I really shouldn't need to explain how the other two very passive abilities are better. You just take your best gunline and profit without worry. The WS trait is odd, it lets you advance closer so you can get into assault, so you can intentionally get out of assault to retake overwatch basically. It helps if you didn't set up your assaults well, but then again if you can't set your assaults up with a more mobile army maybe you shouldn't design assault lists, IDK.

I'll add that any CT that is defensive will likely be better. By defensive I mean they work during your opponents turns or react to your opponent. That's why the last two were so powerful, the Raven Guard trait just screws my opponent in his turn from the start, the Ultra trait is also amazing because it reacts to the opponent as well. I don't need to think or set it up, you charge them, then in the UM turn they simply leave and profit. The WS ability pales by comparison as a defensive tactic, if WS units get charged by something they want to leave and get away from, it seems lack luster to be able to recharge back in. I am not saying certain scenarios won't be solid, just that it is much worse then the other two. Still better then everything last week.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Makes sense though. White Scars is the biker army, right? Why wouldn't their stratagem affect bikes?

Sure, I would have preferred something that works on other unit types too. It's not like all WS successors are necessarily biker gangs. For example if you have a primaris only WS (or successor) army, this stratagem does absolutely nothing.

The Stratagem only affect bikers, but the CT affects every unit. I don't see this CT to be inferior to the Ravenguard one. Is just good to a totally different type of army. And thats good.
And I'll say that is better than the ultramarine one. For an assault army, of course.

someone got the leaks of the next chapter focus ...

Imperial Fists and Salamanders CT were leaked *and I got ninja'ed by Aracersss*

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336821-chapter-focus-salamanders/

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336822-chapter-focus-imperial-fists/


Salamanders

 Galas wrote:
The Stratagem only affect bikers, but the CT affects every unit. I don't see this CT to be inferior to the Ravenguard one. Is just good to a totally different type of army. And thats good.
And I'll say that is better than the ultramarine one. For an assault army, of course.

Its kinda their shtick anyway so good on them.

Man that maximum overdrive movement of move, advance, and shoot is going to be fun. sounds like bikes with ether flamers or melta will be fun on the bun, if not a bit expensive, still tough as nails.

TonyL707 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is a bit meh that the stratagem only affects bikes.

But it doesn't?

It says models with Chapter Tactics(which means Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnoughts) move an extra 2" in addition to the distance rolled. They can Fall Back and still Charge as well.

The White Scars Stratagem, Born in the Saddle, allows White Scars bikers to advance, shoot, and charge.

Not the Chapter tactics.

My bad. I thought he was meaning the picture we had.

Sorry, Crimson!

Imperial fist CT is solid, and I like the BT one a lot but the sallies got another major one. Basically each unit with CT gets two free command point rerolls every shooting phase.


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I'd argue the Salamanders have the best trait. Those rerolls are incredible, makes their dreadnoughts nuts for fire support with things like twin las canons.

Hm. Wherent Imperial Fists the master of DEFENSIVE siege warfare? And the Iron Warriors the siege-breachers? The Imperial Fists CT I think could be more fluffy for Iron Warriors.

The Black Templar ones is a little underwhelming. Maybe the Stratagem will compensate that being powerfull.

Wow, Fists are nuts! That makes even Intercessor squads pokey, with -1AP and they flat out ignore cover. Tanks can never hide from their heavy weapons! Jesus

 Galas wrote:
Hm. Wherent Imperial Fists the master of DEFENSIVE siege warfare? And the Iron Warriors the siege-breachers?

The Black Templar ones is a little underwhelming. Maybe the Stratagem will compensate that being powerfull.

Reroll Failed charges? Probably going to be freakishly strong when deep striking and being angry space crussaiders

also so much for Raven guard. imp fists: we see you.

Also i think both IF and IR were good at siegeing. and would often try to break down each others sandcastles on the beach.

with the IF only edging out to build the fortress on terra.

The salamanders CT is very good for anyone with a plasma gun - or most other guns.

It doesn't make any sense with flamers of course... but I guess it works with meltas. And it fits with their theme of master-crafted stuff.

As an imperial fist player I am... not that excited. Actually I suppose it makes IF shooting kind of the best, so that's no bad thing. It's kind of basic. I haven't had a building used against me so far but I guess my devastator centurions will kill it pretty easily if I do... from safely inside their own bastion.

 Desubot wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Hm. Wherent Imperial Fists the master of DEFENSIVE siege warfare? And the Iron Warriors the siege-breachers?

The Black Templar ones is a little underwhelming. Maybe the Stratagem will compensate that being powerfull.

Reroll Failed charges? Probably going to be freakishly strong when deep striking and being angry space crussaiders

also so much for Raven guard. imp fists: we see you.

You're still at a -1 to Hit at over 12".

That's not a cover thing.

 Galas wrote:
Hm. Wherent Imperial Fists the master of DEFENSIVE siege warfare? And the Iron Warriors the siege-breachers? The Imperial Fists CT I think could be more fluffy for Iron Warriors.

The Black Templar ones is a little underwhelming. Maybe the Stratagem will compensate that being powerfull.

You have it backwards, Iron Warriors are the dudes that make nightmares to attack.

 Kanluwen wrote:

That's not a cover thing.

Oh derp my bad i was thinking it was +1 to cover like camo line for some dumb raisin. its too early in the morning.

Mandragola wrote:
The salamanders CT is very good for anyone with a plasma gun - or most other guns.

It doesn't make any sense with flamers of course... but I guess it works with meltas. And it fits with their theme of master-crafted stuff.

As an imperial fist player I am... not that excited. Actually I suppose it makes IF shooting kind of the best, so that's no bad thing. It's kind of basic. I haven't had a building used against me so far but I guess my devastator centurions will kill it pretty easily if I do... from safely inside their own bastion.

Yeah in terms of cool factor its pretty meh for imp fists but then that is there style anyway :/

i wonder whats going to happen to the stratigem. and also if we are going to straight lose bolter drill.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Hm. Wherent Imperial Fists the master of DEFENSIVE siege warfare? And the Iron Warriors the siege-breachers? The Imperial Fists CT I think could be more fluffy for Iron Warriors.

The Black Templar ones is a little underwhelming. Maybe the Stratagem will compensate that being powerfull.

You have it backwards, Iron Warriors are the dudes that make nightmares to attack.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Iron_Warriors

Lexicanum wrote: Their specialty is siege warfare and the reduction of fortified positions, which made them natural rivals of the Imperial Fists even before the Heresy.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Fists

Lexicanum wrote:Regarding the Legion's prowess in defending sieges, Horus once remarked to Dorn that "if I ever laid assault to a bastion possessed by you... then the war would last for all eternity, the best in attack matched by the best in defence."

EDIT: But after reading it, it appears that they are basically very good at bot sides of Siege warfare, both defensively and offensively. So I suppose it fists Imperial Fists too.

 Galas wrote:
Hm. Wherent Imperial Fists the master of DEFENSIVE siege warfare? And the Iron Warriors the siege-breachers? The Imperial Fists CT I think could be more fluffy for Iron Warriors.

The Black Templar ones is a little underwhelming. Maybe the Stratagem will compensate that being powerfull.

Imperial Fists are masters of ALL siege warfare. Iron Warriors? Never heard of them.

I do agree with you, though. I don't care about power in game, that trait is so meh. I want to fortify something. Why does GW not allow me to fortify anything? Meh.

Iron Hands

Imperial Fists are cool and their tactic is good. Perhaps not the best one here, but good enough I wouldn't feel bad if I ever did run them.

I want a Blood Ravens tactic.

Iron Hands is super powerful. They basically get feel no pain.

Not as good as the other ones, but still pretty fluffy. It does make footsloggers pretty great, though.

 Gamgee wrote:
Imperial Fists are cool and their tactic is good. Perhaps not the best one here, but good enough I wouldn't feel bad if I ever did run them.

I want a Blood Ravens tactic.

Iron Hands is super powerful. They basically get feel no pain.

just take one of the ones the other chapters have you thieving magpie

All solid stuff. I'd argue Salamanders have the weakest trait, but it still is pretty good on our smaller units.