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Personnally I always skipped the battalion and always went outrider+vanguard(+other).
There is no point paying for BSS when you have a strictly superior squad for a mere +1 points per model. Many other units are in the same situation (tactical vs devastator, paladins vs GK termies, etc...).

Anyway, I love Taikishi's double trouble repressor idea too. I was using Tauroxes to bring the anti-horde dakka, but going I'll give it a try in my next games.

Much as I actually dislike the idea of doubling up on units in transports, if I were playing a larger game OR weren't using BSS to bubble wrap the tanks/get a T1 AoF, the flamer BSS would probably be another squad of 3 heavy flamer Rets. I'd probably also give both superiors combi-flamers so that if I do disembark the units, or the transport goes boom, the squads have a little more firepower individually.

I have played a few games with doubled-up transports and I think it's a reasonable tactic. Sure, there's risk, and I haven't played against a big anti-armor list that really has the potential to crack lots of vehicles. I've mostly sent matched BSS units with flamer loadouts to get into range. I find that even if the transports only survive until Turn 2, it's enough to do some very important range management moves with your specials and heavies. The Exorcists, HB Rets, Vanguard Doms, Seraphim, and Celestine give your opponent plenty to worry about in Turn 1, and in Turn 2, or Turn 3 if your opponent deployed deep in his own zone, you've got flamers and rapid-firing bolters on his doorstep.

I haven't explored these configurations as much, but I plan to experiment with double Retributer heavy flamer loadout, double Dominion to enjoy that extra Vanguard move (maybe with the melta/stormbolter loadout mentioned above), and maybe melta BSS backed by HF Rets... losing out on Vanguard in the process, but staggering some very potent weapons across the battlefield in optimal range.

I can't say I was a fan of doubled-up transports, but I might have to try it for the purposes of drop reduction. As is, my lists have more drops than I think they should at points cost.

Update of the list on the previous page thanks to ideas from B&C:

Detachment: Outrider + Auxiliary Fast Attack unit
CP: 3

HQ:
Celestine + 1 Geminae


Fast Attack:
5 Dominions
-4 melta-guns, combi-melta, chainsword

5 Dominions
-3 flamers, chainsword

4 squads of 5 Dominions
-4 Storm bolters, chainsword

5 Seraphim
-Power sword, plasma pistol


Heavy Support:
5 Retributors
-3 heavy flamers

2 Repressors with extra storm bolter


The Repressors lose some firepower, the deployments remain the same (1 Repressor of Flamer-Minions + HF Rets, 1 Repressor of Melta-Minions + SB-Minions). 3 Storm bolter Doms replace the 2 BSS squads as foot sloggers/quasi-blob that work to screen Celestine and wrap the tanks and to get a T1 AoF.

20 SB doms firing T1:
40 shots, or 80 in RF. Potential of 50/100 shots T1 with AoF once the Repressor-transported unit is deployed.

Has anyone tried 8th ed fortifcations?

What's a good load out for a back-field canoness meant to confer rerolls to exorcists and retributiors?

I'm building one for a painting thing and that's probably what I'm going to use it for.

Keeping the book or scroll hand would be a bonus, for my purposes.

Joystick:

IMO, either bolter + storm bolter or bolter + combi-plasma shooting. If you want her to be some type of counter-charge unit, replace the combi-plasma/SB with an Eviscerator.


With Bolter/SB loadout you get up to six (6) Str 4 shots that hit 97% of the time each.


With the Bolter/Combi-plasma loadout you still get up to 6 shots, two of which are Str 7/8, but if you decide to supercharge the plasma barrel DO NOT fire the bolter-barrel of the combi-weapon. Why?

* A supercharged Plasma gun that hits on 2s, re-rolling 1s, has a 3% chance of killing your Canoness.
* If it's Rapid Firing, this goes up to almost 5.5%
* If you fire both barrels, you can't re-roll the 2s before they become 1s. This ups your chance of killing your Canoness to 22%, or 40% if Rapid Firing!!!

 Rubenite wrote:

To clear up the red-shirt confusion from earlier, I was thinking about Dominions when I typed that. In a BSS its good that you have two standard sisters as red-shirt wounds. In a dominion squad it's nice to add an extra model if you can (6 fits in an immolator after all) just to take the first hit and save your expensive models.

Really good insight and makes a lot of sense actually. Thanks!

Taikishi wrote:
Joystick:

IMO, either bolter + storm bolter or bolter + combi-plasma shooting. If you want her to be some type of counter-charge unit, replace the combi-plasma/SB with an Eviscerator.


With Bolter/SB loadout you get up to six (6) Str 4 shots that hit 97% of the time each.


With the Bolter/Combi-plasma loadout you still get up to 6 shots, two of which are Str 7/8, but if you decide to supercharge the plasma barrel DO NOT fire the bolter-barrel of the combi-weapon. Why?

* A supercharged Plasma gun that hits on 2s, re-rolling 1s, has a 3% chance of killing your Canoness.
* If it's Rapid Firing, this goes up to almost 5.5%
* If you fire both barrels, you can't re-roll the 2s before they become 1s. This ups your chance of killing your Canoness to 22%, or 40% if Rapid Firing!!!

I really don't expect the double-gun build to remain legal (unless it was addressed in an FAQ?) in the long term, and the more I think about it I do think having her be choppy to punish the wise-guy who tries to sneak a unit into my backline to run amuck would probably be best.

Any opinions on her pistol options?

IMO Plasma is almost a must-take for the Canoness, either in pistol form or Combi. BS2+ with rerolling 1s is the best plasma shooting in the game, I don't think you'll ever see a better utilisation of wargear points.

Unless, you know, your reroll is another 1

I grabbed an eviscerator on mine, but a Combi is certainly not a bad buy.

 pretre wrote:
I grabbed an eviscerator on mine, but a Combi is certainly not a bad buy.

Agreed.

I think an eviscerator is a good choice simply because I love the fact that she hits on a 2+ now. I wish Celestians could get power weapons for the same reason.

Hell, it'd be nice if celestians could get anti-charge power spears and storm shields or something to represent their bodyguard nature...

Celestians need to be completely retooled as close combat units. Their statline is all about it, it's absurd that they don't get the gear.

Eviscerators are solid, but they are a bit overcosted. No access to jump packs doesn't help matters either.

Howdy folks, made an account to specifically talk in this thread. New player, decided to play SoB as my first army.

I see that people are mentioning using wargear like combiplasma and plasma pistols for the Canoness, where do you all pick up the bits to put that on the model? I recently ordered a Canoness secondhand off ebay, and I've been puzzling on how to bash that kind of wargear together with the metal model.

 Fafnir wrote:
Celestians need to be completely retooled as close combat units. Their statline is all about it, it's absurd that they don't get the gear.

Eviscerators are solid, but they are a bit overcosted. No access to jump packs doesn't help matters either.

A thousand times this. Celestians have been made out to be close combat units without close combat weapons, and they've always suffered for it. Even back in third, when they were at their strongest, they were always sub-par due to lack of role-appropriate equipment.

 Captain Joystick wrote:

Taikishi wrote:
Joystick:

IMO, either bolter + storm bolter or bolter + combi-plasma shooting. If you want her to be some type of counter-charge unit, replace the combi-plasma/SB with an Eviscerator.


With Bolter/SB loadout you get up to six (6) Str 4 shots that hit 97% of the time each.


With the Bolter/Combi-plasma loadout you still get up to 6 shots, two of which are Str 7/8, but if you decide to supercharge the plasma barrel DO NOT fire the bolter-barrel of the combi-weapon. Why?

* A supercharged Plasma gun that hits on 2s, re-rolling 1s, has a 3% chance of killing your Canoness.
* If it's Rapid Firing, this goes up to almost 5.5%
* If you fire both barrels, you can't re-roll the 2s before they become 1s. This ups your chance of killing your Canoness to 22%, or 40% if Rapid Firing!!!

I really don't expect the double-gun build to remain legal (unless it was addressed in an FAQ?) in the long term, and the more I think about it I do think having her be choppy to punish the wise-guy who tries to sneak a unit into my backline to run amuck would probably be best.

Any opinions on her pistol options?

Why? I mean, GW has already mentioned that models can fire every non-pistol it possesses OR every pistol it possesses OR throw one grenade in the shooting rules, the FAQ didn't touch it, and I'm sure once I go digging (epubs are on my thumb drive at work) I'll find other infantry models besides the Canoness that have or can take two non-pistol guns.

 InTOMinable_Broman wrote:
Howdy folks, made an account to specifically talk in this thread. New player, decided to play SoB as my first army.

I see that people are mentioning using wargear like combiplasma and plasma pistols for the Canoness, where do you all pick up the bits to put that on the model? I recently ordered a Canoness secondhand off ebay, and I've been puzzling on how to bash that kind of wargear together with the metal model.

Plasma pistol / Combi-plasma is going to be a lot of trading with Space Marine players. There are many combi-plasmas that you can chop up and add to a SOB model, same with Plasma Pistols. There is really not a lot in the SOB range that covers it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Taikishi wrote:
Why? I mean, GW has already mentioned that models can fire every non-pistol it possesses OR every pistol it possesses OR throw one grenade in the shooting rules, the FAQ didn't touch it, and I'm sure once I go digging (epubs are on my thumb drive at work) I'll find other infantry models besides the Canoness that have or can take two non-pistol guns.

Wolf Guard on bikes.

I was going to look specifically at infantry, so as to exclude things like Wraithlords and Tau battle suits, but yes, every character on a bike has their twin bolters on their bike + could have another ranged weapon. As well, the sergeant of a bike squad + the two special weapon models can fire their twin bolters and their special/combi-weapon in the same turn.

More specifically, Wolf Guard on Bike can take Storm Bolter/Combi-Weapon and their bike.

So can Company Veterans on Bike and up to three models in a normal Bike squad. Or are you saying Wolf Guard can get both the storm bolter and combi-weapon + their bike guns? If so, I'm not seeing it.

Taikishi wrote:
So can Company Veterans on Bike and up to three models in a normal Bike squad. Or are you saying Wolf Guard can get both the storm bolter and combi-weapon + their bike guns? If so, I'm not seeing it.

Oh wait, I'm thinking of something else.

No, Wolf Guard on bikes can each take a Combi/Storm Bolter plus their Bike Guns plus Plasma Pistol/Melee Weapons/Stormshield.

I'm interested that people are backing away from the Brigade in favor of two or three smaller detachments (Vanguards, Spearheads, etc... I can't keep the names straight). I'm going to try to build a few lists in that direction before my next game. That said, here's what used to be (approximately) my 7th edition Castellans list making an attempt at an 8th edition Brigade detachment for 12 Command Points. I know the Scions will annoy the purists (I get it), but what I'm really interested in is how the Ministorum units work together and whether my intended synergies and my plans to deploy, advance, and engage are legit. This should be an all-comers list.



Here are the deployment and engagement schemes I'd like feedback on:

The Canoness castles up in the back with an Imagifier, the Exorcist, and the HB Retributers... I feel like this is tried-and-true.
The melta Doms in the ImmoFlamer do what they've always done: Vanguard, suicide rush, melt something shiny.
The melta Doms and flamer Doms double up in the Rhino and advance up the table with Vanguard (flamers to engage or secure an objective).
The HF Rets and F/HF/CF Battle Sisters in the HB Immos are the second wave. They could use an AoF to keep pace with the Doms and could take either the Priest or the second Imagifier in their extra seat if it looks like a strong position midfield will help control objectives or win close matchups.
The 10-strong storm bolter foot squad could also use the Priest, second Imagifier, and/or AoF to position themselves for objective control or area denial in the middle of the board, or they could screen the backfield heavies to deny the required 9" for Deep Strike.
Celestine, her one pal, and the Seraphim go character hunting or provide counter-charges for the units who advance quickly enough to get into CC.
The Scions drop on the flanks or wherever else there's room to gun down armor and heavy infantry (they are too cheap and plasma is too good... so much hurt for 60 points each!).

Anyone see major issues with AoE buffs, movement rates, weapon ranges, unit sizes, etc.? Thanks!

If you're taking Tempestus primes anyways, you are better off dropping the brigade and getting Tempestus Command Squads.
Also, no bubble wrap?

 InTOMinable_Broman wrote:
Howdy folks, made an account to specifically talk in this thread. New player, decided to play SoB as my first army.

I see that people are mentioning using wargear like combiplasma and plasma pistols for the Canoness, where do you all pick up the bits to put that on the model? I recently ordered a Canoness secondhand off ebay, and I've been puzzling on how to bash that kind of wargear together with the metal model.

You'll need to get your hands on a plastic bit to represent the part you're looking for. (In this case, a space marine combi-plasma or plasma pistol) and do some cutting to make it fit on the Cannoness' hand.

Easiest way to do that is snip off the gun from an existing hand in two parts: A vertical cut parallel to the knuckles to remove the barrel, and a horizontal cut above the top of her enclosed fist to remove the rest of the firing mechanism. Then make a similar cut to the plastic bolter (used to be easier when you just had to remove the handles, the attached hands are a little more tricky) and you're on your way. Try to smooth out the cuts on the hand to make sure they're flat (and retain that 90 degree angle) and attach with super glue, I don't think pinning would be neccesary in this case.

Welcome to the world of metal models.

 pretre wrote:
If you're taking Tempestus primes anyways, you are better off dropping the brigade and getting Tempestus Command Squads.
Also, no bubble wrap?

You'd bring Conscripts, I assume? I'd have to delve into the box o' junk models... I bet I could scrounge up 20, maybe 30 with mixed weapons and armor for "counts-as" Conscripts. Take them in place of... the 10-strong storm bolter unit? I'm guessing they serve a similar role, screening my backfield heavies?

 MacPhail wrote:

 pretre wrote:
If you're taking Tempestus primes anyways, you are better off dropping the brigade and getting Tempestus Command Squads.
Also, no bubble wrap?

You'd bring Conscripts, I assume? I'd have to delve into the box o' junk models... I bet I could scrounge up 20, maybe 30 with mixed weapons and armor for "counts-as" Conscripts. Take them in place of... the 10-strong storm bolter unit? I'm guessing they serve a similar role, screening my backfield heavies?

Basically, yes.

Wow, looks like I'm a little late to this party. All looks like good advice so far. I'm really liking our total toolset.

I did work up this in CAD over the past couple evenings as a printable Repressor conversion that works like the immolator's top plate, but fits the standard rhino cupolas.

 Zefig wrote:
Wow, looks like I'm a little late to this party. All looks like good advice so far. I'm really liking our total toolset.

I did work up this in CAD over the past couple evenings as a printable Repressor conversion that works like the immolator's top plate, but fits the standard rhino cupolas.

Oooh that's cool.

It is pretty cool ! Kinda of things I might buy ;-)