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Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges.
But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
No, it doesn't. Superiors come with both a bolt pistol and a bolt gun. The bolt pistol trades for any other pistol, the boltgun can be traded for a melee weapon or other ranged weapon, and they can take an additional melee weapon. Go Inferno Pistol/Storm Bolter/Power Axe.
Seraphim need to Act of Faith efficiency more than BSS. I'd keep them in one big squad.
Alright, thank you. I will put melta (well, inferno pistols) on my Superiors right away.
Seraphim are fine in one big squad then, hopefully that's enough antitank.
To be fair, I would like to ally in some vehicles perhaps in the future - I know you're fond of the Shadowsword, but I already have my IG superheavy tank company; what about other things?
I have considered running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 Tank Commanders and calling it a SOB leman russ squadron (??) with some old 2nd edition Immolator girls in the hatches and SOB bits, almost certainly with sponson heavy flamers. Would that look nice? Not sure it solves the AT problem but it'd be easy to fluff as crusade allies or whatever. Not sure.
I wouldn't take Russes with heavy flamers, they're bad. I like my Tank Commanders to have Battle Cannon, Lascannon, 2x Multimeltas, Hunter-Killer Missile [FAQ allows it], and a Pintle Storm Bolter. It's expensive, but it does it's job. As an addendum, Exorcists are superior to Leman Russes, but are inferior to Basilisks, which are in turn inferior to Manticores.
I'd just get more Immolators. Cheaper [points-wise], can take an H-K Missile, and can get your Meltaguns forward.
Two things to keep in mind:
Seraphim are not good in assault, but a tank in close combat is a tank not shooting you. Use your Seraphim to assault tanks, but only if you know you can lock them down. Be careful with things like tanks full of Berzerkers, because you'll have to surround them to keep the Berzerkers from getting out. Don't charge things like Raiders, because they have fly and troops onboard can shoot out, so you're just taking unnecessary overwatch,
Inferno Pistols on Superiors are pretty much only viable when upgrades are free. They're emergency antitank. Don't buy them when playing with points, they're too expensive for something you're not going to use, but absolutely equip them when playing Power Level. Since you have them, also don't write off going into melee with tanks with your basic units. A Power Axe lets the superior wound a Rhino or Predator on a 5, and the Inferno Pistol means you can still blow them up if they don't flee from combat with you. This is another reason why I like small squads, especially in Power Levels, because you really overpay in PL the larger your squad gets.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/11 19:47:25
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges.
But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
No, it doesn't. Superiors come with both a bolt pistol and a bolt gun. The bolt pistol trades for any other pistol, the boltgun can be traded for a melee weapon or other ranged weapon, and they can take an additional melee weapon. Go Inferno Pistol/Storm Bolter/Power Axe.
Seraphim need to Act of Faith efficiency more than BSS. I'd keep them in one big squad.
Alright, thank you. I will put melta (well, inferno pistols) on my Superiors right away.
Seraphim are fine in one big squad then, hopefully that's enough antitank.
To be fair, I would like to ally in some vehicles perhaps in the future - I know you're fond of the Shadowsword, but I already have my IG superheavy tank company; what about other things?
I have considered running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 Tank Commanders and calling it a SOB leman russ squadron (??) with some old 2nd edition Immolator girls in the hatches and SOB bits, almost certainly with sponson heavy flamers. Would that look nice? Not sure it solves the AT problem but it'd be easy to fluff as crusade allies or whatever. Not sure.
I wouldn't take Russes with heavy flamers, they're bad. I like my Tank Commanders to have Battle Cannon, Lascannon, 2x Multimeltas, Hunter-Killer Missile [FAQ allows it], and a Pintle Storm Bolter. It's expensive, but it does it's job.
I'd just get more Immolators. Cheaper [points-wise], can take an H-K Missile, and can get your Meltaguns forward.
Two things to keep in mind:
Seraphim are not good in assault, but a tank in close combat is a tank not shooting you. Use your Seraphim to assault tanks, but only if you know you can lock them down. Be careful with things like tanks full of Berzerkers, because you'll have to surround them to keep the Berzerkers from getting out. Don't charge things like Raiders, because they have fly and troops onboard can shoot out, so you're just taking unnecessary overwatch,
Inferno Pistols on Superiors, are pretty much only viable when upgrades are free. They're emergency antitank. Don't buy them when playing with points, they're too expensive for something you're not going to use, but absolutely equip them when playing Power Level. Since you have them, also don't write off going into melee with tanks with your basic troops. A Power Axe lets the superior wound a Rhino or Predator on a 5, and the Inferno Pistol means you can still blow them up if they don't flee from combat with you. This is another reason why I like small squads, especially in Power Levels, because you really overpay in PL the larger your squad gets.
Okay, more Immolators rather than Russes. That's fluffier too because the Order factories can churn them out without the aid of the Mechanicus (to be fair they can do this with exorcists too but :X)
So how many Immolator-mounted Dominion melta squads would you say is "enough" for 75 PL? One more? Two? I need to know how many Immos to buy.
Unit1126PLL wrote: I do have rets with HBs in the list. Exorcists aren't foot and allies aren't pure sisters. :/ And actually my anti-tank question was in the vein of tactics; I am willing to change up my list, just not run vehicles or allies.
Well, if you want to gimp yourself, I guess walking Dominions or Retributors would have to do it.
Do you think it is worth it to just spam foot-squads of melta-dominions?
No, but we go with what your restrictions are.
I do try to stick to my fluff, and appreciate the challenge of building a list within the confines of written fluff (rather than within the entire scope of the game-state).
I've been looking to include allies in my fluff, and if the Sisters are defeated badly enough the Order may very well suffer an upheaval with the conservative leadership replaced by women who will absolutely look outside the Order for solutions to particular challenges.
But the current leadership is very hidebound, prefers to fight alone, and its isolated nature means it has little support from manufactorums or the Adeptus Mechanicus, though it can slowly make things in its own foundries and factories.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: Without vehicles, Melta Dominions basically have a target on their back. Make sure all your Sister Superiors have Inferno Pistols as a stop gap, make sure your Canonesses have Eviscerators and Melta, and be prepared to go into melee to destroy tanks, and hope you don't pull IG or SM parking lot as your opponent.
Running Sisters without tanks is hard.
Alright, I can do that. I've even considered running some Repentia as anti-tank, though they're kinda awful even for that. The inferno-pistol things cuts down on my Storm Bolters (iirc, I don't have the book out atm). I do have seraphim with inferno pistols; I can run 3 or 4 squads of 5 seraphim with 2 inferno pistols per squad (since they're supposed to be elite and more flexible than the BSS I don't mind MSUing them).
No, it doesn't. Superiors come with both a bolt pistol and a bolt gun. The bolt pistol trades for any other pistol, the boltgun can be traded for a melee weapon or other ranged weapon, and they can take an additional melee weapon. Go Inferno Pistol/Storm Bolter/Power Axe.
Seraphim need to Act of Faith efficiency more than BSS. I'd keep them in one big squad.
Alright, thank you. I will put melta (well, inferno pistols) on my Superiors right away.
Seraphim are fine in one big squad then, hopefully that's enough antitank.
To be fair, I would like to ally in some vehicles perhaps in the future - I know you're fond of the Shadowsword, but I already have my IG superheavy tank company; what about other things?
I have considered running a Supreme Command detachment of 3 Tank Commanders and calling it a SOB leman russ squadron (??) with some old 2nd edition Immolator girls in the hatches and SOB bits, almost certainly with sponson heavy flamers. Would that look nice? Not sure it solves the AT problem but it'd be easy to fluff as crusade allies or whatever. Not sure.
I wouldn't take Russes with heavy flamers, they're bad. I like my Tank Commanders to have Battle Cannon, Lascannon, 2x Multimeltas, Hunter-Killer Missile [FAQ allows it], and a Pintle Storm Bolter. It's expensive, but it does it's job.
I'd just get more Immolators. Cheaper [points-wise], can take an H-K Missile, and can get your Meltaguns forward.
Two things to keep in mind:
Seraphim are not good in assault, but a tank in close combat is a tank not shooting you. Use your Seraphim to assault tanks, but only if you know you can lock them down. Be careful with things like tanks full of Berzerkers, because you'll have to surround them to keep the Berzerkers from getting out. Don't charge things like Raiders, because they have fly and troops onboard can shoot out, so you're just taking unnecessary overwatch,
Inferno Pistols on Superiors, are pretty much only viable when upgrades are free. They're emergency antitank. Don't buy them when playing with points, they're too expensive for something you're not going to use, but absolutely equip them when playing Power Level. Since you have them, also don't write off going into melee with tanks with your basic troops. A Power Axe lets the superior wound a Rhino or Predator on a 5, and the Inferno Pistol means you can still blow them up if they don't flee from combat with you. This is another reason why I like small squads, especially in Power Levels, because you really overpay in PL the larger your squad gets.
Okay, more Immolators rather than Russes. That's fluffier too because the Order factories can churn them out without the aid of the Mechanicus (to be fair they can do this with exorcists too but :X)
So how many Immolator-mounted Dominion melta squads would you say is "enough" for 75 PL? One more? Two? I need to know how many Immos to buy.
I run 3 Antitank squads and 2 Antiinfantry squads, plus an Exorcist, a Pengine, and Celestine. I mix the Immolators 50/50 Flamers and Multimeltas. One of the anti-infantry squads is on foot and is 10-strong, because I ran out of slots and want to have someone to accept the second Act of Faith on turn 1, and to push back the 9" perimeter. Why don't I use Rets instead? I don't know. I probably should, but I like being able to scout forward and keep up with the tanks. I can cover the rear gates of my tanks to ensure I have room to disembark if I get charged.
If your heart is set on being a foot-based army, though, you can still field so many meltaguns that the enemy can't kill them all. Sisters are better in vehicles, but that doesn't make foot non-viable.
I've been considering permutations to improve my list though. While it is undefeated, it's currently one of the metrics by which opposition lists are being build, so it's not going to stay that way for long and I need to stay one step ahead of my opponents!
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/08/11 20:11:08
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
Also, both in Points and in PL, my Multimelta Immolators have performed incredibly well, blowing up Dreadnoughts, Tyrants, Rhinos, and, in last game, 2 together took down a Land Raider. Are the overpriced? Yes, especially compared to Lasbacks. Are they destructive? Also yes.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/08/11 20:37:10
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
Also, both in Points and in PL, my Multimelta Immolators have performed incredibly well, blowing up Dreadnoughts, Tyrants, Rhinos, and, in last game, 2 paired up to take down a Land Raider.
Ahh PL. Nevermind then. In a matched play game, I would rather spend those points on other upgrades or more dominions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/11 20:38:03
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
The Sisters had a crushing victory. I didn't change my list from the one I posted earlier (due to not having brought extra models), but the enemy showed up with Orks. His major vehicle-like things were a Deffkopta (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Wartrakk (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Dakkajet (very vulnerable to Celestine ripping it from the sky and dashing it on the ground doing mortal wounds to a whole mess of units), and a Trukk (very vulnerable to Dominions).
The rest of his list was an Ork horde, essentially, which, needless to say, is very vulnerable to boltguns.
He was tabled, and my Dominions were wiped out because I decided not to babysit them after the Trukk exploded. Everything else had a few casualties here and there but nothing meaningful.
The Sisters had a crushing victory. I didn't change my list from the one I posted earlier (due to not having brought extra models), but the enemy showed up with Orks. His major vehicle-like things were a Deffkopta (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Wartrakk (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Dakkajet (very vulnerable to Celestine ripping it from the sky and dashing it on the ground doing mortal wounds to a whole mess of units), and a Trukk (very vulnerable to Dominions).
The rest of his list was an Ork horde, essentially, which, needless to say, is very vulnerable to boltguns.
He was tabled, and my Dominions were wiped out because I decided not to babysit them after the Trukk exploded. Everything else had a few casualties here and there but nothing meaningful.
Good to hear!
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
The Sisters had a crushing victory. I didn't change my list from the one I posted earlier (due to not having brought extra models), but the enemy showed up with Orks. His major vehicle-like things were a Deffkopta (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Wartrakk (very vulnerable to boltguns), a Dakkajet (very vulnerable to Celestine ripping it from the sky and dashing it on the ground doing mortal wounds to a whole mess of units), and a Trukk (very vulnerable to Dominions).
The rest of his list was an Ork horde, essentially, which, needless to say, is very vulnerable to boltguns.
He was tabled, and my Dominions were wiped out because I decided not to babysit them after the Trukk exploded. Everything else had a few casualties here and there but nothing meaningful.
Good to hear!
I do chalk the victory up to 'luck-of-the-draw' though on opponents. If I had pulled an IG tank company, I agree I'd've been in trouble.
I just managed to score a handful of second hand sisters at a good discount-- they're in the Simple Green as I write. This will be my first acquisition of 8th, so I'm heading in some new directions. My first Penitent Engine, 2 Heavy Bolters, 3 Stormbolters, 2 Superiors with Plasma Pistols, and an Immolator w/ Flamers.
I mostly know what to do with them, but where would y'all put the Plasma Pistols? Running them with Doms gets them close. BSS units in transports work too, eventually.
Also, this will be my first Stormbolter Dominion unit. How big, and how to deploy them? Prime targets? I'm thinking Advance and sit on an objective in the middle of the table if possible.
Helo. Dominion Party bus is doing great. But I'm gonna have my first ever 2000pts game, this Wednesday. I came up with this list, to be TAC list, but I'm not sure if this will be enough.
Retributor Squad [5 PL, 100pts] . Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
1. „Stab the shoty, shot the staby”
2. „Who bails, fails.”
3. „Act to win yourself and not for your opponent to lose.”
4. „If in dilemma between damage and durability, chose third- speed.”
5. „Focus fire.”
If your group is using the new rules where troops are given Objective Secured, I recommend some BSS in repressors or rhinos.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
MacPhail wrote: I just managed to score a handful of second hand sisters at a good discount-- they're in the Simple Green as I write. This will be my first acquisition of 8th, so I'm heading in some new directions. My first Penitent Engine, 2 Heavy Bolters, 3 Stormbolters, 2 Superiors with Plasma Pistols, and an Immolator w/ Flamers.
I mostly know what to do with them, but where would y'all put the Plasma Pistols? Running them with Doms gets them close. BSS units in transports work too, eventually.
Also, this will be my first Stormbolter Dominion unit. How big, and how to deploy them? Prime targets? I'm thinking Advance and sit on an objective in the middle of the table if possible.
Strong opinions?
'
5, in a Repressor or Immolator. Sure, they can start on foot and make it there, but that adds a lot of drops, and a Repressor isn't a bad ride for them.
As far a Plasma Pistols, I'd pass. Combi Meltas or additional Storm Bolters are worth more, in my opinion.
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
So I had a major mishap with Purity Seal... The canoness ended up frosting up like I had left her in the back of a freezer for a year. Basically I'm never using an aerosol based varnish again.
That said, I was able to fix it in a surprising way: put her in a toaster oven at 130 degrees for an hour and I was able to see the teeth of her chainsaw again. There's still a grain on her features that gets picked up on camera but isn't really visible in person. Ended up placing first for single infantry sized models for the painting comp though:
MacPhail wrote: I just managed to score a handful of second hand sisters at a good discount-- they're in the Simple Green as I write. This will be my first acquisition of 8th, so I'm heading in some new directions. My first Penitent Engine, 2 Heavy Bolters, 3 Stormbolters, 2 Superiors with Plasma Pistols, and an Immolator w/ Flamers.
I mostly know what to do with them, but where would y'all put the Plasma Pistols? Running them with Doms gets them close. BSS units in transports work too, eventually.
Also, this will be my first Stormbolter Dominion unit. How big, and how to deploy them? Prime targets? I'm thinking Advance and sit on an objective in the middle of the table if possible.
Nice grab!
As far as the plasma pstols (Superior with chainsword and plasma pistol?) I would swap out the pistol for a stormbolter off of a SM character bit or Sternguard stormbolter bit.
Stormbolter Doms like to ride for sure, I field mine in squads of five with a stormbolter each. With them being only twelve points, you don't need to worry about ablative wounds, just bring another squad of five if you are in a Repressor. I don't field as many melta Doms, but I often run with stormbolter squads solo in four Repressors with two melta Dom squads riding along in two of them. Melta or SB fire out according to your need. Drop off your SB Doms if necessary and you feel they have a chance to survive enemy fire.
My Doms rarely sit still, they run in packs to take out units within 12" (repressors fire first teaming up on closer units, hoping to kill the close units with your shortest ranged weapons, stormbolters clean up and then extend outward).
MacPhail wrote: I just managed to score a handful of second hand sisters at a good discount-- they're in the Simple Green as I write. This will be my first acquisition of 8th, so I'm heading in some new directions. My first Penitent Engine, 2 Heavy Bolters, 3 Stormbolters, 2 Superiors with Plasma Pistols, and an Immolator w/ Flamers.
I mostly know what to do with them, but where would y'all put the Plasma Pistols? Running them with Doms gets them close. BSS units in transports work too, eventually.
Also, this will be my first Stormbolter Dominion unit. How big, and how to deploy them? Prime targets? I'm thinking Advance and sit on an objective in the middle of the table if possible.
Strong opinions?
As already mentioned, plasma pistols should be swapped for cheaper yet more effective stormbolters.
Doms definitely need a ride, so Immolators or Repressors. I personally like a 5-Dom squad, 2 with meltaguns and the rest with stormbolters. If you run multiple squads as I do, your opponent will have to chew through each squad to get to the meltas. Since you can split fire now, the meltas can always target your higher T opponents while the stormbolters can go after your softer targets.
Doms like to be on the move and shooting, if you want to sit on an objective get Troop Sisters or Heavy Bolters if you're in your backfield.
---------
I have a few táctica questions for the group---
In all my games thus far, Celestine has always been slain, giving my opponent the Slay VP. I have been tinkering with the heretical thought of making my Canoness the Warlord -egads!!
Celestine will always be a primary target being the beat stick that she is, so does taking that extra incentive away give her a little more chance for survival? Granted she loses her +1A, but the Canoness (mine equips a Power Maul for Str5 attacks) will get it, bumping her up to 5 attacks.
Bad idea? Thoughts?
I have 11 drops for my 2000 point list. Now that the benefit of having fewer drops only gives a +1 to the dice roll for going first (in some missions), is it still of vital importance to get as few drops as possible in a list? Or should I think of drops as I do about command points- i.e. not tailoring my list to maximize for CPs nor to minimize my drops, but rather to build a balanced list?
In a 2000 point list, what should be the minimum number of meltaguns / inferno pistols to deal with high T targets (assuming no allies or Exorcists).
I am taking 12 meltaguns spread over 6 Dominion squads and 4 Inferno Pistols equipped on a Seraphim squad, as well as a combiplasma on my Canoness. Is this enough for a tournament type list?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 04:02:50
Captain Joystick wrote: So I had a major mishap with Purity Seal... The canoness ended up frosting up like I had left her in the back of a freezer for a year. Basically I'm never using an aerosol based varnish again.
That said, I was able to fix it in a surprising way: put her in a toaster oven at 130 degrees for an hour and I was able to see the teeth of her chainsaw again. There's still a grain on her features that gets picked up on camera but isn't really visible in person. Ended up placing first for single infantry sized models for the painting comp though:
Try lightly rubbing her with a Q-tip and olive oil, then removing the olive oil with a light dabbing of soapy water and finishing with a rinse. I've had some problems in the past with varnishes frosting up, and that can help clean it right off.
Try lightly rubbing her with a Q-tip and olive oil, then removing the olive oil with a light dabbing of soapy water and finishing with a rinse. I've had some problems in the past with varnishes frosting up, and that can help clean it right off.
It really is fine though. It's not noticeable in person, and I'm not going to go through that much trouble trying weird stuff to remedy it. I got to take her to the painting comp, had a fun anecdote to share, and got to be surprised with a win.
I want to take what I've learned and start with the battle sisters (I may finish my bloodbowl team to confirm how the paint on varnish looks under normal circumstances), I'll refine the process and when I feel really confident I'll strip her down and paint her again.
Going to be playing a 2v2 match today, sobs and primarus vs orcs and Tau, 3k points for 1500 per person.
I'm bringing a heavily themed list of faith and fire and wanted to get an opinion or two.
Outrider Detachment
Celestine +2 giminae sisters
3x of
Seraphim x7
Seraphim X2 flamer pistols
Superior with plasma and powersword
Outrider detachment
Cannoness combimelta power axe
3x of
Dominion x4 meta
superior combimelta
3x of
Immolator, flamer, storm bolter, hk missile
1498 points
Idea is to send Seraphim and Celestine at the ork and Dom squads at Tau with their vanguard one of the Dom units will have the Cannoness so I plan to use the a of for a pseudo vanguard movement. Pretty much bum rush shock and awe
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
In all my games thus far, Celestine has always been slain, giving my opponent the Slay VP. I have been tinkering with the heretical thought of making my Canoness the Warlord -egads!!
Celestine will always be a primary target being the beat stick that she is, so does taking that extra incentive away give her a little more chance for survival? Granted she loses her +1A, but the Canoness (mine equips a Power Maul for Str5 attacks) will get it, bumping her up to 5 attacks.
Bad idea? Thoughts?
I have 11 drops for my 2000 point list. Now that the benefit of having fewer drops only gives a +1 to the dice roll for going first (in some missions), is it still of vital importance to get as few drops as possible in a list? Or should I think of drops as I do about command points- i.e. not tailoring my list to maximize for CPs nor to minimize my drops, but rather to build a balanced list?
In a 2000 point list, what should be the minimum number of meltaguns / inferno pistols to deal with high T targets (assuming no allies or Exorcists).
I am taking 12 meltaguns spread over 6 Dominion squads and 4 Inferno Pistols equipped on a Seraphim squad, as well as a combiplasma on my Canoness. Is this enough for a tournament type list?
Celesti e is always going to be a huge bullet magnet. She might survive the game, sje mught not, depends on your rolls and how intimidated ypur opponent is by her. Its been mentioned befire that she is a great distraction fex. As nice as it is to throw an extra attack on her or up her survival chances marginally by giving her the 6+fnp, letting her be your warlord isnt the only option.
When possible, i like to have a cannoness in my lists as my warlord and let Celestine go up and ruin my opponents day. She is really able to take the focus off the cannoness when she gets killing and if she dies go down, youre not giving away a point and jonestly, its amusing seeing the confusion and frustration on an opponents face when they realise the cannoness letting tje Rets and Exos up back is the warlord and not the murderface beatstick theyve spent 2+ turns focusing down.
A cannoness these days is no slouch. Hitting on 3+ with an eviscerator and steiking first if charging, no more instant death, 4++ and rerolling 1s to hit; a cannoness can be almost as smashy as celestine...really if she had a jump pack ypud probably see less of big C and more asdaulty cannonesses.
Ive never worried about how many drops my army has. My dice have been so abysmal for years that ive gotten used to going second every game. With the change to sieze etc, i wouldnt worry too.mych about your drops, but thats just me. If we are getting to the point that the outcone is determined by who goes first tyen something is clearly wrong.
12 melta and another 4 in seraphim sounds good to me. Is that 2 per dominion squad? Couple of full melta squads? Melta immos?
The most dangerous thing about Celestine is the vast degree to which people overestimate and fear her. In terms of raw power, she's actually not the greatest investment.
Against standard 1W MEq, Celestine and her two girls will only outperform an Eversor Assassin by 1 body while costing more than three times as much. Even against multi-wound targets, the damage done doesn't justify the difference in cost. Especially since she can't benefit from any faction buffs (despite being from the Order of Our Martyred Lady, she doesn't actually have the keyword, so she can't get any rerolls).
I run an Imperial Soup army, and Celestine isn't even in the top three best units in the list (maybe not even top five, especially if you count duplicates). But she's one of the most useful because of just how much your opponent is geared to tunnel vision in on her. Combined with her mobility and resilience, she can either get a lot done, or let a lot be done.
I have 2 melta Doms in each of my 6 Dominion squads. Each squad rides in an Immolator with the Flamer.
@Captain Joystick- I have thought my anti-tank is a bit light, but sticking to a pure Sisters list limits my options. Meltaguns are slightly on the expensive side, and Exorcists seem too variable and under-performing for the cost. I could put another 3 meltaguns spread out over my 6 Dominion squads. I hesitate to put meltaguns on my Troop Sisters as I don't want them to draw fire, I just need them for support and to hold objectives.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fafnir wrote: But she's one of the most useful because of just how much your opponent is geared to tunnel vision in on her. Combined with her mobility and resilience, she can either get a lot done, or let a lot be done.
That's the beauty of Celestine, she has amazing mobility with her AoF (24" plus charge) and at 2/4++ she can shake off a lot of incoming. She is a threat everywhere but I would never put her up against a proper character killer.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/13 20:29:06
Frankie G from Frontline Gaming is running a sisters at the Nova Invitational. It'll be interesting to see his list (lots of repressors and dominions I hear). Should be good. He's seeded 10th out of 32.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 01:51:22
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Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
I played my first 3 games with the Sororitas this weekend at a tournament, which happened to also be my 3rd-5th games of 8th Ed. as a whole. I lost the first two and nearly tabled my opponent on the third game for the win, but I think it was largely down to army choices in all three games as well as running out of time and being unable to finish the first two games, and not fully knowing/remembering what's changed for the army as well as the rules as a whole. I had first turn in all 3 games, nobody managed to steal the initiative even with a reroll every time. I won't get crazy with writing out my list in detail, but I had:
Celestine and her minions
Canoness with combi-plasma and power maul
Three troop squads, 2 in immolators (flamer version) and 1 with extra bodies, each have a heavy flamer
A melta dominion squad in another immolator (TMM version because WYSIWYG)
10 seraphim with a plasma pistol/power sword superior (again, WYSIWYG)
3 penitent engines, single squad
Game 1 was against Blood Angels. I made an error bringing my Seraphim in behind my opponent's warlord, who was in just the right spot for me to drop in and be able to target him as the closest model. 18 bolt pistols did a single wound after saves, and the plasma pistol killed my superior (rolled a 1, CP to reroll into another 1). I then failed the charge, and my opponent's first turn was to send 10 Death Company and the warlord after my single squad. It worked out, none of those models were otherwise relevant until turn 3 since they turned around and went backwards, but in the end it didn't matter as much. We ran out of time, due to both of us having to look up too many rules, but we each got 3 full turns out of it and I lost by a single point.
Game 2 was against Necrons, which was absolutely the worst army to fight against in a kill points mission. 3x15 warriors, 10 immortals and 6 boat-legs were accompanied by some support character that boosted the "I'll be back" roll and gave out an invuln save, an overlord and a big ship thing. I managed to use my meltadoms to kill 4 of the boat-legs, and all 4 came back with full wounds the next turn. Hilariously, my opponent only managed to kill a single dominion (I chose to take out the superior, because meltas are more useful than a single boltgun) with the entire squad of boat-legs firing at them, though the two units of warriors that could have fired at them shot and killed the immolator they rode in. My second turn, I leveled the 4 remaining dominions, two immolation flamers, my canoness' combi-plasma and a penitent engine's heavy flamers and the entire squad of boat-legs died except a single model with a single wound left. I charged everything that could, and only the dominions made the distance. I actually managed to do a wound, and my opponent failed, but he used his final CP to reroll it and pass. His next turn, he got the entire squad back and I lost my dominions to the overlord. I don't like necrons anymore in this edition than I did in the last one. Literally only one table read the mission correctly for the mission (week 2 of Konor) so I think if we'd awarded the bonus points properly, I might've either won or tied this game instead of lost. As it stood, it was 12-0 because I never brought my seraphim on (we ended after my opponent's turn 4, I was planning to bring the seraphim on in turn 5) but I didn't feel like trying to go back to fix the points. We weren't going to change the W-L status of any games, but we were offered to recount the VPs if we wanted to.
Game 3 was against a dark eldar player who had 5 venoms, 2 jetfighters and a bomber, with stuff inside the venoms. By the end of the game, my canoness had died alongside my dominions and one penitent engine, but every other squad was alive, if much smaller than they started. This game mostly showed that heavy flamers are completely brutal against things that rely on being difficult to hit in shooting, and that Celestine is an absolute monster. She single-handedly took down both jetfighters and two archons within 2 rounds of combat after they charged her, as well as dumpstering multiple other small squads and venoms.
Final thoughts:
All in all, I'm not terribly impressed with seraphim as an alpha-strike unit, as their profile seems to suggest they could be. Bringing them in late-game to take an objective seems like an excellent use of them though, and something they worked really well for in my final game. The downside being you might forget to bring them in, and they'll count against you in a kill points game.
Penitent engines are my new favorite toys. I took at least one in every game I've played since I started back in the last quarter of 6th ed., but they never felt like they really did anything. Aside from Celestine, I think they had more kills than literally any other unit in my army. I think I'll be splitting them into separate units instead of keeping them together in the future. It just seemed like I really overkilled everything I went after, and on one occasion wounds spilled over from one model into the next because it was multiple D1 wounds that made it through. Plus I'd like to be able to send them after different targets, and having more than 1 chance of getting that second set of attacks seems much better. The only downside to my beloved penitent engines is the fact that they're no longer Sororitas units, so they're not valid targets for AoF and lost their invuln unless they happen to be close to Celestine. Even just for pure fluff reasons, I'm sad they were moved. I still love them, though. Great models. Frustrating, but beautiful.
Celestine is every bit the monster I'd hoped she would be. Her minions did so little over the course of the day, I almost wish I hadn't brought them to save on points but at some point one of them ate a D5 attack that I failed to save, so the extra protection is really nice. I'll keep taking them both for a little while, but as of right now I'm thinking I may eventually drop one of them.
Flamers. Are. Amazing. I used pretty exclusively heavy flamers and similar profiles for this tournament, but I'm definitely going to run a second dominion squad with flamers and a combi-flamer. I'm a little worried about the lower S and lack of AP, but I love the D6 auto-hits so much. I'm also considering the hand flamers on seraphim, mostly because 2 of my 10 models are equipped with them and I really enjoy playing WYSIWYG, but I also like bringing the squad in from reserves which means I won't be using the hand flamers until my following turn, assuming they're even alive by that point.
I'm not sure taking a regular flamer in the BSS units is really worth the points, though, as well as the loss of ranged threat by having 2 models doing nothing outside of 8". I like the HF a lot, but I think for the special weapon on my troops I'd actually prefer storm bolters. It makes up for the shots you lose for having the HF model, and is cheaper than a flamer. One of these days I'd love to take a squad of dominions with stormbolters, just to pump out 20 shots from a 5-woman squad (since the superior can take a stormbolter as well), but I'm not sure the weapon is worth an entire squad that could take something so much better. Then again, 20 shots.
Yep. Especially for the battle sister squad, storm bolters are good.
Three SBs per squad, two squads per repressor, six firing ports-- equal to twelve boltguns firing, along with the repressor's own SBs.
Yes, dominions are better. But you can still have a nice ObSec firebase with the BSS.
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Celestians' bodyguard rule triggers when a character loses a wound. A lascannon doesn't cause a model to lose wounds until it rolls damage.
If Celestine fails a save against a lascannon and it rolls a 6 for damage, then Celestine would lose 6 wounds. You roll 6 dice, and for each 2+ you can opt to have the Celestians take a mortal wound in order to ignore one of the wounds on Celestine.
