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Taikishi wrote: It was an example, not something I'm actively going to do.
The point stands with more or less anything you could bring in place of Penitengines, is what I'm saying.
My thrust is this: the whole AdMin army list (with the exception of SoB) is poorly designed and inefficiently costed. Penitengines were a borderline exception, until it transpired you had to give up a detachment to bring them if you wanted access to Strats for your Sisters. Now you have to give up a detachment to include them or lose access to Strats, and they're just not worth that kind of investment IMHO.
Taikishi wrote: It was an example, not something I'm actively going to do.
The point stands with more or less anything you could bring in place of Penitengines, is what I'm saying.
My thrust is this: the whole AdMin army list (with the exception of SoB) is poorly designed and inefficiently costed. Penitengines were a borderline exception, until it transpired you had to give up a detachment to bring them if you wanted access to Strats for your Sisters. Now you have to give up a detachment to include them or lose access to Strats, and they're just not worth that kind of investment IMHO.
In spite of this, Sisters have still done very well competitively. And I'm not just talking about the 'throw Celestine in a Soup' lists. They have done significantly better than most other index-only armies in the ITC.
I like to think of it this way... each Act of Faith that goes of gives me the equivalent of 3 more Command Points. That is how much other armies pay for each of their extra phase strategems. So with Celestine, we get a bonus of 6 CP per turn. We've seen how hard Ynnari got the Nerf for basically the same thing.
We get access to one of the best flammers in the game, and we can have almost as many of them as we want... because it is on a dedicated transport.
Many of our units can have 5 special weapons or 4 heavy weapons with only 5 bodies! Sure, we cannot spam them to the point we used to, so we just have to make better use of our troops choice.
As others have pointed out, pure Sisters are in a weird place right now. There are some pretty bizarre restrictions on us for list building right now. Those restrictions build creativity in both list design and tactics.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
Taikishi wrote: It was an example, not something I'm actively going to do.
The point stands with more or less anything you could bring in place of Penitengines, is what I'm saying.
My thrust is this: the whole AdMin army list (with the exception of SoB) is poorly designed and inefficiently costed. Penitengines were a borderline exception, until it transpired you had to give up a detachment to bring them if you wanted access to Strats for your Sisters. Now you have to give up a detachment to include them or lose access to Strats, and they're just not worth that kind of investment IMHO.
In spite of this, Sisters have still done very well competitively. And I'm not just talking about the 'throw Celestine in a Soup' lists. They have done significantly better than most other index-only armies in the ITC.
I like to think of it this way... each Act of Faith that goes of gives me the equivalent of 3 more Command Points. That is how much other armies pay for each of their extra phase strategems. So with Celestine, we get a bonus of 6 CP per turn. We've seen how hard Ynnari got the Nerf for basically the same thing.
We get access to one of the best flammers in the game, and we can have almost as many of them as we want... because it is on a dedicated transport.
Many of our units can have 5 special weapons or 4 heavy weapons with only 5 bodies! Sure, we cannot spam them to the point we used to, so we just have to make better use of our troops choice.
As others have pointed out, pure Sisters are in a weird place right now. There are some pretty bizarre restrictions on us for list building right now. Those restrictions build creativity in both list design and tactics.
Even with the FAQ I can still win or at least compete for the win in all my games with an overwhelming majority of my points being spent on Sisters. I think they still work, just how you have to play them/build your list changes.
Rynner wrote: Even with the FAQ I can still win or at least compete for the win in all my games with an overwhelming majority of my points being spent on Sisters. I think they still work, just how you have to play them/build your list changes.
This is me too, with about 400-600 of non-Sisters in a 2k list. Running pure Sisters without FW I'm way below 50/50.
I haven’t run them post FAQ, but The Rule of 3 won’t affect my list at all so I still feel pretty confident. I play in a casual competitive environment, 2 of our guys regularly attend tournaments and the other 4 make solid lists and play well, but they aren’t out to harvest skulls. The Sisters have gone undefeated in 8th, but they haven’t faced the top tier Eldar tournament list in my group. On paper it looks even IF I can manage to go first. If anything I feel like the FAQ made them better because I wasn’t spamming Dominions and Seraphim, I wasn’t deep striking anything, and my back line isn’t as concerned with being mobbed turn 1 by Bloodletters and Tsangors.
Taikishi wrote: It was an example, not something I'm actively going to do.
The point stands with more or less anything you could bring in place of Penitengines, is what I'm saying.
My thrust is this: the whole AdMin army list (with the exception of SoB) is poorly designed and inefficiently costed. Penitengines were a borderline exception, until it transpired you had to give up a detachment to bring them if you wanted access to Strats for your Sisters. Now you have to give up a detachment to include them or lose access to Strats, and they're just not worth that kind of investment IMHO.
In spite of this, Sisters have still done very well competitively.
... hence me saying they were an exception. I've emphasised it in my original post for those who missed it. It's difficult to go wrong with power armour, bolters, meltaguns and transports, especially when you can generate half a dozen extra actions per game turn - and IMHO you don't really need the transports, although footsloggers seem to work best in a soup rather than as a standalone army.
tl;dr - Sisters are great. The rest of the AdMin army list is not worth looking at.
I have a pure Sisters list as I have always had and it does extremely well. I will say though that it is somewhat antagonizing to see the dead pile after games. No matter the win, I lose a crap ton of my army doing it. Makes for high drama but you know I sure would like it to be a prettier win sometimes.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
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http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Hey guys, I'm thinking of putting together a SoB detachment to support my blood angels, mostly as an excuse to use Celestine and collect some nice old models. Any advice on where to go with about 800 points worth?
fatbudda319 wrote: Hey guys, I'm thinking of putting together a SoB detachment to support my blood angels, mostly as an excuse to use Celestine and collect some nice old models. Any advice on where to go with about 800 points worth?
An outrider detatchment with Celestine, a Seraphim squad and a couple Dominion units in Repressors is a good group.
fatbudda319 wrote: Hey guys, I'm thinking of putting together a SoB detachment to support my blood angels, mostly as an excuse to use Celestine and collect some nice old models. Any advice on where to go with about 800 points worth?
An outrider detatchment with Celestine, a Seraphim squad and a couple Dominion units in Repressors is a good group.
Jancoran wrote: I have a pure Sisters list as I have always had and it does extremely well. I will say though that it is somewhat antagonizing to see the dead pile after games. No matter the win, I lose a crap ton of my army doing it. Makes for high drama but you know I sure would like it to be a prettier win sometimes.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
My pure Sisters force has been running at 50/50 on wins versus loses, which is just fine and has made for some interesting games and not one has resulted in the tabling of an opponent in early turns.
Actually, I'd be curious where everyone's win ratios lie under various circumstances. I suspect there a pattern, and I think we can prove it. I think I can ask this without regard to the FAQ, although I know that threw a few lists off.
In 8th edition at 2k, how's your record with and without Forge World and allies? Mine looks about like this:
Sisters (majority of force) plus allies (various): 75%
Pure Sisters, no Forge World: 40%
Pure Sisters, with Forge World: building my first Repressors now...
Sisters Majority - 75%
Pure Sisters, No Forgeworld - I don't know, never tried it.
Pure Sisters with Forgeworld - 65%-85%, the last time I did it was right after Chapter Approved in a Chaos infantry heavy meta.
Sisters with Allies - never tried it
Pure Sisters without Forgeworld pre FAQ - 15ish games in local primarily Index meta - 100%
Pure Sisters with Forgeworld pre FAQ - 100+ games competitive meta local or on work travel - 85-90%
Pure Sisters with Forgeworld post FAQ - 14 games competitive meta local or on work travel - 65-70%
I have played a few different lists - I donlt own the FW books so not tried with my one repressor yet
Assassins and guard seem to work well with them.
oh and this is some good news?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Very good news indeed. I hope she becomes a named character.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/12 13:10:33
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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Melissia wrote: Very good news indeed. I hope she becomes a named character.
That's would be cool - there were several great candidates in Shield of Baal.
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
"At the AdeptiCon Studio Seminar, we revealed that Sisters of Battle are on their way. We promised you we’d keep you updated and take you on this army’s journey from design to release. Now, as promised, we can finally show you just what the new generation of Adepta Sororitas is going to look like.
The classic gothic design of the Sisters of Battle is, to be frank, awesome, and with the new range, the design studio hasn’t been trying to change that – instead, we’ve gone back to the original art and looked at how we can truly bring it to life using cutting edge design technology. The first model of the new generation of Sisters of Battle is based – almost detail-for-detail – on some of the most iconic Sisters of Battle art ever made, and you can expect the rest of the army to follow the classic design cues you know and love.
We’ve pushed our designers to the limit with these new models, and this first Battle Sister is the perfect example of that – she’s got everything from ragged purity seals, rosaries and charms, to precise mechanical details on the bolter and power armour that has been lavishly realised. The scenic base alone is an awesome piece in its own right. We think it’s safe to say that if you’re a Sororitas fan, the wait has been well worth it.
This Battle Sister will be the first you’ll be able to get your hands on, a special preview release ahead of the main wave to make the wait a little bit more bearable. We can’t say when just yet, but stay tuned to Warhammer Community to find out as soon as we have a date."
Unfortunately, I didn't get to see any seminars. I tried, but even though it was quieter today, they filled up quite quick. However, I did manage to talk to a few staff.
Robin Cruddace wrote:
Spoke to him about the situation with Inquistion, regarding the Beta rules. He has said it's on GW's radar, and most likely a Codex or Index like book will deal with those issues once it's their turn. Sisters, are definitely getting their OWN book. Ministorum will most likely be in it too (which makes sense to a degree), and he has said he's very pleased about the reaction to the render of the Sisters model, is excited himself as one of two he remembers who has a Sisters army in the GW team. He said that the rule book when it comes will, hopefully be designed in such a way that it takes things into account for the future, rather than being a retread of what they have now. I mentioned about hoping that Celestians and Penitent Engines are given some love, and that the general consensus between Sisters players is, we want the Jump pack Canoness back and a new HQ like a Palatine. He mentioned that most of the time, models are produced first (with some consulting with the rules designers for weapon ideas etc), then the rules are written. Mostly. He also said that he wants to get the Acts of Faith rules fixed, working fluffily and to add flavour to the various Orders etc.
Speaking of that 3d render, I spoke to Darren Latham, who created her. He was really pleased with how well she has been received.
fatbudda319 wrote: Hey guys, I'm thinking of putting together a SoB detachment to support my blood angels, mostly as an excuse to use Celestine and collect some nice old models. Any advice on where to go with about 800 points worth?
An outrider detatchment with Celestine, a Seraphim squad and a couple Dominion units in Repressors is a good group.
fatbudda319 wrote: Hey guys, I'm thinking of putting together a SoB detachment to support my blood angels, mostly as an excuse to use Celestine and collect some nice old models. Any advice on where to go with about 800 points worth?
An outrider detatchment with Celestine, a Seraphim squad and a couple Dominion units in Repressors is a good group.
Flamers average 3.5 hits per, Stormbolters average 2.64 hits per in rapid fire range. So if you're going to be up close and personal like Dominions often are with their scout moves, and you have some points to burn, then it's not a bad choice.
In this case he asked for an 800pt detatchment, there weren't enough points for meltas in both squads, so it was either flamers, a couple spare Seraphim, or dual heavy flamers on the Repressors and some unused spare points.
But I agree, Stormbolters are often a default for me as well due to the cost. However with the reduction on the number of Dominion squads I'm trying to get better weapons on them to improve their damage output.
Sometimes, you just gotta take something cause the model is freakin cool...
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madhatter00o wrote: I’m curious about the use of flamers here. I usually run storm bolters. Is there a reason flamers might be preferable to SB?
I try to squeeze in a combi-flamer on a Canoness when I can... it doesn't feel right to not run the Holy Trinity in some capacity. In general, they don't seem to be worth the points. Two units of heavy flamer Rets in a Rhino are good for a laugh, just not a cost effective one.
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Finished Forge World Elysian Army 
Finished Tau Sept Cadre 
Finished Ork Waaagh | 
Alaitoc Eldar Warhost 
Finished Necromundian Imperial Guard Regiment 
