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Ah yeah can't wait for Kel'Shan sept who is my Septs founding world.

Late to the show, but I guess I am not surprised by the announcement.

What I mean by that is I bought the Imperium II index for my Guard army, and was surprised that the platoon rules were not present. Part of me wondered if that was a change to how Guard will play, a deliberate omission (to sell a 'complete' codex later down the road) or something else. I guess option 2 was the real case.

So, while I am not surprised that another book I bought will soon be obsolete, it is making me less hopeful that there are meaningful changes to how GW will market their products in 8th edition. I sat out 7th edition because it came out too soon after 6th edition and the rules were a bloated nightmare to navigate. I was excited for 8th because it seemed like GW wasn't going down that same path and were attempting to make things more user friendly. Hopefully that stays the case, but if I need a Guard codex and my Index to play my Guard army, that isn't exactly streamlining things in my opinion.

I must be the wierd one out.

I've got multiple armies (custom SM, IG, Eldar, Ork, Tyranids, Necrons, Adeptus Mech, Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, Tau, CSM), so the indexes were a great buy for me.

I will only be using the indexes and the free rules download. Feth the codexes, they will only add power creep to the system. Brand new units I expect will come with their rules in the boxes. I literally see no reason to buy into the codex choo-choo train.

Does FFG require physical cards to play in FFG tournaments?

Of course, but I don't see how that's relevant?

 Stormonu wrote:
I must be the wierd one out.

I've got multiple armies (custom SM, IG, Eldar, Ork, Tyranids, Necrons, Adeptus Mech, Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, Tau, CSM), so the indexes were a great buy for me.

I will only be using the indexes and the free rules download. Feth the codexes, they will only add power creep to the system. Brand new units I expect will come with their rules in the boxes. I literally see no reason to buy into the codex choo-choo train.

Will you force others to play with indices or will you just put yourself at a disadvantage?

 d-usa wrote:
I'm not arguing that Power Armor should be first, I'm arguing that Power Armor is not the same exact army copy and pasted into many different books

It's not. But it's similar enough that you can devise an army that fits in to pretty much every single power armor book with no or minimal changes to what models you bring.

You can't do that with guard/orks/tyranids. Unlike the other armies, the various space marines are still just minor variations on each other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
[...]

Design a list with a captain, tacticals, and terminators and you certainly could do it with both lists. Design one with assault marines, tacticals, and devastators, and you could with normal marines and csms. This is especially true of the current index armies.

I didn't expect they would communicate so soon about it. And release them so fast.

If only they released the Index warscrolls online and just give the possibility to buy the books for those who want, like they did for Age of Sigmar when it came out, people would complain less, because they would have a choice. Honestly, I understand why some are upset because of this.

But then...price for the indexes were quite low and we still have a long way before all the armies will get their own book. Oh well. Time to buy a new shelf for this edition, I guess.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 d-usa wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
Marines are only unique and varied for people who play them. For everyone else they're a frustrating sea of power armor releases. "Oh but these guys have werewolves and those guys are gross though!" Pfft.

And Imperial Guard, Orks, and Tyranids are only varied for people who are not blind.

Fixed that for you.

I have several Marine armies - am I so entitled that I think Marines should have priority over all others - nope.

Do I - like you apparently - feel that I should not only have one overarching Codex but mutiple codexes - and first and screw everyone else. Nope.

honestly the only entitled people I see are the people complaining that their army isn't up for a codex first.

the first 4 codices (incidently in the name of full disclosure I have a Space Marine, chaos marine and Grek Knights army) are all fairly logical choices. with the new death guard and Primaris Marines space marines and chaos marines are gonna need their codices updatyed for the new stuff, death guard are in need of their own stand alone codex asap, if GW wants to launch them sucessfully. ans Grey Knights are a bit of an odd choice on the surface, but I'm hoping it's because they're getting some new stuff, something GKs honestly do need. (certainly more so then IG, orks or eldar whom are are fairly fleshed out)

this release also shouldn't suprise anyone, the rumor mill MONTHS ago was, from reliable rumor mongers, saying this year would focus on space marines and chaos. thing is, being the first book of a new edition isn't always good, just ask chaos players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Late to the show, but I guess I am not surprised by the announcement.

What I mean by that is I bought the Imperium II index for my Guard army, and was surprised that the platoon rules were not present. Part of me wondered if that was a change to how Guard will play, a deliberate omission (to sell a 'complete' codex later down the road) or something else. I guess option 2 was the real case.

So, while I am not surprised that another book I bought will soon be obsolete, it is making me less hopeful that there are meaningful changes to how GW will market their products in 8th edition. I sat out 7th edition because it came out too soon after 6th edition and the rules were a bloated nightmare to navigate. I was excited for 8th because it seemed like GW wasn't going down that same path and were attempting to make things more user friendly. Hopefully that stays the case, but if I need a Guard codex and my Index to play my Guard army, that isn't exactly streamlining things in my opinion.

you'll likely not need the index, unless GW decides commissars and astropaths won't be in the AM book.

that said some armies I could see them not bothering with a codex for, Imperial knights for example.

 Melissia wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I'm not arguing that Power Armor should be first, I'm arguing that Power Armor is not the same exact army copy and pasted into many different books

It's not. But it's similar enough that you can devise an army that fits in to pretty much every single power armor book with no or minimal changes to what models you bring.

You can't do that with guard/orks/tyranids. Unlike the other armies, the various space marines are still just minor variations on each other.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
[...]

Design a list with a captain, tacticals, and terminators and you certainly could do it with both lists. Design one with assault marines, tacticals, and devastators, and you could with normal marines and csms. This is especially true of the current index armies.

So if you take an army with not a single model/unit/weapon/rule that makes them Dark Angels/Blood Angels/Ultramarine/Space Wolves/Grey Knights....then could field an army as any one of those?

Honestly?

All I want to know is the likely price point.

If we go by AoS - we're still looking at hardcover books that are cheaper than their old 7th ed counterparts - £25-£30 instead of £30-£35.

Considering the Indexes were on par with the Grand Alliance books for pricing...

Not too bad.

My only annoyance is that I sold off armies to have a single one and need a single book and now I might need to buy 2 of these Codexes within the next 2 months. HAH. Serves me right for trying to save money.

I'm angry for two reasons. 1. The codex for marines (a army many people play) comes out like a month after the index. This is fine for other players but specifically for some people they now have to buy a new book in such a short amount of time.
2.now they have the codex (which has better and more balanced rules) doesn't this give them an advantage? Let's say your codex isn't coming out untill Christmas. That's about 5 or 6 months of people having an advantage over you with faction specific bonuses.

 d-usa wrote:
So if you take an army with not a single model/unit/weapon/rule that makes them Dark Angels/Blood Angels/Ultramarine/Space Wolves/Grey Knights....then could field an army as any one of those?

So you're saying Grey Knights don't use Terminators? Chaos Marines don't use Havocs? Space Wolves don't use Blood Claws / Sky Claws? Dark Angels don't use Tacticals? Blood Angels don't use Captains?

You're making an inane objection and you know it. The Space Marine sub-forces are quite similar. They have differences. But you can basically exchange one for the other with only minor differences. You can't exchange Orks and Imperial Guard and expect the same similarities like you claimed earlier.

What would they do for Deathwatch? Watch Fortresses? How about Dark Eldar? Covens of various types?

I am not too pissed about the early turnaround on the Space Marine codex. I still have Blood Angels, Deathwatch, and Grey Knights (probably not buying their Dex since this is only a small army for me) that will use the Index for the time being. The other Imperium Index has too many different armies for me to care if and when they get codexes (I have some Sisters, Inquisition, Ad Mech, Assassin's, and Knights).

There will still be plenty of new kits in the Space Marine codex that will make it worth it anyway. Hopefully the SM Codex won't suffer from Early Codex Syndrome and either be overpowered (Eldar Dex until it was replaced by Overpowered In A Different Way Eldar Dex) or underpowered (CSM among others). With ten codex releases in a few months makes me think there will be many teams working, which might mean no communication between them, leading to imbalance. Look at what happened with the Forgeworld stuff vs. the Indexes.

Looks like I was right on basically all counts with the SM Codex though. No separate Primaris Codex, check. No separate Ultramarines codex, check. Some older models that take up space that are best left in the Index (Legion of the Damned, LR TU, etc), check. Bring on the Crimson Fists Chapter Rules!

And this is why I did not buy any Index. Especially since we knew a lot of Adeptus Astartes kit were coming our way with the Primaris preview on Warhammer Community.

Dudeface wrote:

Remind me what the real difference between a raven guard troop choice (tactical marine or scout) and an iron hands troops choice (tactical marine or scout) and a blood angels troops choice (tactical marines or scouts) vs the differences between ork boyz, nid warriors and conscripts are please.

This is the big thing for me... There are so many identical options between the different marine armies that it really seems like it would be so much easier from every angle to just have a single book with Chapter Traits to differentiate the different coloured armour.

The only real space hog would be special characters - which could be released online as dataslates, allowing them to release as many or as few special characters as they want, when they want without being tied to book releases and space.

 insaniak wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Remind me what the real difference between a raven guard troop choice (tactical marine or scout) and an iron hands troops choice (tactical marine or scout) and a blood angels troops choice (tactical marines or scouts) vs the differences between ork boyz, nid warriors and conscripts are please.

This is the big thing for me... There are so many identical options between the different marine armies that it really seems like it would be so much easier from every angle to just have a single book with Chapter Traits to differentiate the different coloured armour.

The only real space hog would be special characters - which could be released online as dataslates, allowing them to release as many or as few special characters as they want, when they want without being tied to book releases and space.

Have you seen the way that they have done the different Skyports for the Kharadron Overlords?

Basically, the Skyport you pick and its associated color scheme lets you bring in certain Relics, grants you more access to certain units, and gives you a specific set of the various little Codes/By-Laws/whatever they're called. Some Skyports have other benefits/downsides like letting you take more than usual of a certain hero or Skyship in a formation or requires you to take a certain number of a specific type of hero or unit.

I can't really explain it well without having the book, but it's actually a very nice system.

I've always been of the opinion that the Codex-following Marine Chapters (which, for all intents and purposes, does include the Dark and Blood Angels) should be rolled into a single book.

Again, the way FW does the Legiones Astartes is the model they should be using for all but the most unique types of Marine formations (Wolves, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, etc.).

 insaniak wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

Never underestimate the ability of a gamer to find something to complain about. .

Or the ability of others to trivialise complaints they disagree with.

These discussions would go considerably more smoothly if people could accept that different opinions to their own aren't inherently meritless.

The same could be said of people accepting that just because they have an opinion doesn't mean it's legitimate, and that not all opinions are created equally. Maybe opinions are being trivialized because they are trivial opinions. I'm really having a hard time seeing a rapid and massive release of content from GW's part as a bad thing.

Oh boy have we go the full circle.

From "THIS IS THE WORST" to "NO, YOU ARE THE WORST"
To "I'm too poor for this!" to "Go play chekers you filthy poor guys!"

To "OMG SPHEES MARINS I'M ALLERGIC TO THEM!".


This thread has been very fun to read. Power Armour sells, guys. Is time for you to accept that.
GW is here to make dollars, money, dinero, cash, whatever you want to call it.
Warhammer40k IS Space Marines. They are the PROTAGONISTS of the setting. This is like talking about how Marvel don't stop pushing Captain America in Captain America Movies and Comics. And my main army is Tau, but oh my god. I have accepted after entering this setting that my army is just a secondary narrative for the setting. A small dot, made to be a parody of the typical Sci-Fi human republic. And I'm fine with that. I say this for your own good, really. Being angry and upset isn't good for you or anyone. It affect our health on the long term.

I actually hope they either don't do an Imperial Knights codex or combine them with something else. Same story for Renegade Knights. Two pages of rules does not need an entire codex.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've always been of the opinion that the Codex-following Marine Chapters (which, for all intents and purposes, does include the Dark and Blood Angels) should be rolled into a single book.

Again, the way FW does the Legiones Astartes is the model they should be using for all but the most unique types of Marine formations (Wolves, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, etc.).

I can't really think of a reason why this wouldn't work. Make Codex Adherent and Codex Aberrant into just two books. It worked fairly well, IMO, for the Index. The second half of the book is where things go sideways between Space Wolves, Deathwatch, and Grey Knights.

Still no rules leaks????

 TheWaspinator wrote:
I actually hope they either don't do an Imperial Knights codex or combine them with something else. Same story for Renegade Knights. Two pages of rules does not need an entire codex.

They could roll them in with Imperial Agents or Ad Mech as far as I am concerned. Renegade Knights are one single data sheet. I think they could probably go in the CSM Codex, or maybe the Ad Mech Codex can have Dark Mechanicus and Renegade Knights in it.

 insaniak wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Remind me what the real difference between a raven guard troop choice (tactical marine or scout) and an iron hands troops choice (tactical marine or scout) and a blood angels troops choice (tactical marines or scouts) vs the differences between ork boyz, nid warriors and conscripts are please.

This is the big thing for me... There are so many identical options between the different marine armies that it really seems like it would be so much easier from every angle to just have a single book with Chapter Traits to differentiate the different coloured armour.

The only real space hog would be special characters - which could be released online as dataslates, allowing them to release as many or as few special characters as they want, when they want without being tied to book releases and space.

Personally, I would be okay if they copied the Index approach. Have Codex Space Marine, and then release smaller softcover books for non-Codex chapters that have all the chapter specific rules in them, and then lots of "refer to Codex Space Marine for all these other units.

People would call it a money grab designed to sell you two books though.

What is the lead time on a codex? I mean how many months before release are they printed?
Some say the Indexes were printed 6months before 8E release, if this is true then pretty much all the problems and errors that needed to be FAQd will also be in the codex.

One can only hope that the later books will be better quality checked but knowing GW quality is more of an afterthought when it comes to books.

General Hobbs wrote:


Still no rules leaks????

Do we even know when the SM codex goes up for preorder. Anymore the leaks don't start until the preorder is posted.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


Still no rules leaks????

Do we even know when the SM codex goes up for preorder. Anymore the leaks don't start until the preorder is posted.

They said "late July".

I'm thinking it'll be preorders on the 15th or 22nd.

 insaniak wrote:

This is the big thing for me... There are so many identical options between the different marine armies that it really seems like it would be so much easier from every angle to just have a single book with Chapter Traits to differentiate the different coloured armour.

The only real space hog would be special characters - which could be released online as dataslates, allowing them to release as many or as few special characters as they want, when they want without being tied to book releases and space.

There are some fairly stark differences...Dark Angels have never been able to field a Landspeeder Storm, for instance...and in the 6th edition release, they got a bunch of new toys only they could take...Nephylim flyer, Deathwing Knights, Land Speeder Vengeance, Darkshroud, etc.

But really, the main reason is because GW wants to get that $50-a-pop for each new chapter book. Also, lets be honest here....I'm pretty sure there would be a lot more people crying if they didn't get their own special snowflake codex....(like the 5 Black Templars players who have been whining on these forums for the last 10 years or so) than people complaining about having to buy a book that has many of the same dataslates as the vanilla book.


I'm more afraid of them breaking the armies up into sub-faction books like they are doing with AoS (see Oruks, Skaven, and Dwarfs)...I could easily see them releasing a Codex: Drukhari Beast-masters, a Codex: Haemonculus Covens and then a Codex: Wych Covens book at some later point.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

General Hobbs wrote:


Still no rules leaks????

Do we even know when the SM codex goes up for preorder. Anymore the leaks don't start until the preorder is posted.

They said "late July".

I'm thinking it'll be preorders on the 15th or 22nd.

So leaks probably starting weekend at the earliest.