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 Melissia wrote:
Tyranids are way too important to 40k lore to be removed. Necrons are too interesting.

Tyranids are too stupid to exist. Their fluff is a giant "we don't understand biology" sign, their models are ugly, and as a narrative element they're boring as hell.

Necrons could be interesting, but IMO would require a major re-write and I'm not even sure what role they'd take. From a mechanics perspective they're too close to marines, from a fluff perspective the take the same "ancient and powerful threat beyond human comprehension" role as the Eldar. I wouldn't be outraged if they stay, but I wouldn't bother keeping them in my ideal version of the game.

Again - Rule #2 - STAY ON TOPIC.

Hypothetical Personal Versions of 40K that have nothing to do with this reality's version of 40K are NOT on topic here.

Mitochondria wrote:
Zero games of 8th played and.......I'm out.

I'm not paying $50 for hardcover codices.

I should have know they were up to their old tricks when they LIED and said that the rules would be free.

Well, without the goddamn datasheets the fething rules are unusable.

Bye. GW never said 8th was going to have free everything. In fact, they made it quite clear in the run up to it that the Index books were coming as an item for SALE, and that there would be codexes down the road. So whatever.

Hopefully we don't see codex creep in these new releases (I'm not holding my breath though).

It's cool to see that they're going to try and crank these out, but some factions could use some model updates (Orks, IG Regiments, not to mention the entirety of Sisters), and I hope that, at the very least, GW adds some sort of model release on top of the codexes rather than just rushing these out.

Can't wait for the hooplah when the Chapter Approved book comes out though. Even more controversial rules we'll have to pay for.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:
I must be the wierd one out.

I've got multiple armies (custom SM, IG, Eldar, Ork, Tyranids, Necrons, Adeptus Mech, Grey Knights, Imperial Knights, Tau, CSM), so the indexes were a great buy for me.

I will only be using the indexes and the free rules download. Feth the codexes, they will only add power creep to the system. Brand new units I expect will come with their rules in the boxes. I literally see no reason to buy into the codex choo-choo train.

Will you force others to play with indices or will you just put yourself at a disadvantage?

Indices only.

I seem to recall everyone screaming bloody murder about just about everything about 8th before the actual drop.

And yet once it's released the response is almost universally positive.

Maybe instead of jumping to conclusions about how terrible it's going to be, maybe, idk, try to enjoy the hobby, look forward to nifty new codexes, and not find fault in everything going on.

I come to these threads for rumors about a hobby I enjoy, not to sift through 8 pages of people complaining about how Dark Angels shouldn't have a codex.

Wrong thread, wrong attitude, wrong hobby tbh.

In other news I see no reason not to expect several xenos books this year, it would make the most sense.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:

I come to these threads for rumors about a hobby I enjoy, not to sift through 8 pages of people complaining about how Dark Angels shouldn't have a codex.

I think a lot of this sentiment comes from the very real fact that other factions (sisters, xenos, etc.) get their books delayed with another space marine release.

I'm all for individual marine codexes, but when they take up such a large chunk of the release schedule, it can be pretty rough.

 Nah Man Pichu wrote:
I seem to recall everyone screaming bloody murder about just about everything about 8th before the actual drop.

And yet once it's released the response is almost universally positive.

Maybe instead of jumping to conclusions about how terrible it's going to be, maybe, idk, try to enjoy the hobby, look forward to nifty new codexes, and not find fault in everything going on.

I come to these threads for rumors about a hobby I enjoy, not to sift through 8 pages of people complaining about how Dark Angels shouldn't have a codex.

Wrong thread, wrong attitude, wrong hobby tbh.

In other news I see no reason not to expect several xenos books this year, it would make the most sense.

They did toss out that quote about "this year is imperium vs chaos, next year xenos get the spotlight" or something to that effect. Not super encouraging, but I felt it was worth mentioning (also presumably that just means the majority of xenos will be after the Christmas cut off). I think admech might've been mentioned as falling into the same boat as well though I can't remember if this was a reliable rumor or not.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
I bet the release list will be:
1. Space Marines
2. Grey Knights
3. Chaos Space Marines
4. Death Guard
5. Primaris Marines
6. Blood Angels
7. Space Wolves
8. Dark Angels
9. Thousand Sons
10. Deathwatch
11. World Eaters
Then next year we will see:
12. Emperors Childen
13. Chaos Daemons
14. Chaos Daemons - Nurgle
15. Chaos Daemons - Tzeentch
16. Chaos Daemons - Khrone
17. Chaos Daemons - Slaanesh

World Eaters and Emperor's Children are not going to be separate from the main CSM codex, at least not in the immediate. Only Death Guard and Thousand Sons are listed as separate factions on both the 40k website and in the 40k rulebook. WE and EC would need a full range to justify a codex, and that's not going to happen for now.

The four Chaos books will be Daemons, CSM, DG, TS.

 Peregrine wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Well, that depends, I guess. If all the units in the Codex are the same as the Index, then you could field an Index-built army, you just wouldn't have access to the "enhanced" traits, relics, strategems, etc. That's how it works in AoS anyway. Not saying that everything in 8th Edition is going to be like AoS, but the game does draw many parallels to it already.

Then you lose consistently because you don't have the full range of rules options available. If the codices have additional rules (and not just fluff along with copies of the index rules) then they are mandatory.

depends, if the additional options are BALANCED, then you won't nesscarily massivly lose out for not having them (speaking hypotheticly here, AOS armies with a Battletome apparently have a distinct advantage so you're likely correct)


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 Peregrine wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Tyranids are way too important to 40k lore to be removed. Necrons are too interesting.

Tyranids are too stupid to exist. Their fluff is a giant "we don't understand biology" sign, their models are ugly, and as a narrative element they're boring as hell.

Necrons could be interesting, but IMO would require a major re-write and I'm not even sure what role they'd take. From a mechanics perspective they're too close to marines, from a fluff perspective the take the same "ancient and powerful threat beyond human comprehension" role as the Eldar. I wouldn't be outraged if they stay, but I wouldn't bother keeping them in my ideal version of the game.

right, space ships that travel faster then light by traveling through hell, chainsaw swords being weilded by giant dudes whom wear neon plate armor and spit acid are all ok, but "evil bugs who devour planets" is pushing it a bit much? 40k is about as scientific as Star Wars, Star Trek, or any other space opera you could care to name

Any word on leaks on the new rules?

General Hobbs wrote:


Any word on leaks on the new rules?

Probably next weekend at the earliest. The leaks hit on the day of preorder, for the most part, and the Codex hits Late July, so that means next weekend or the following weekend.

I shouldn't be surprised but I am. GW told us that this edition would start with a great deal of emphasis on the conflict between the Imperium and Chaos. So that's what we're getting and somehow people are surprised what we were told over a month ago was true.

 Melissia wrote:
I don't think they should be rolled up in to one codex. But I do disagree that they're really that much more substantially different. Longfangs are Devastator Marines, Bloodclaws and Skyclaws are Assault Marines, Wolf Guard are Veterans, Terminators are Terminators, Iron Priests are Techmarines, Runepriests are Librarians, and so on. They have some unique units in their vehicles and in the Wulfen-related lore, and some unique wolfgear-- err, wargear. But they're Space Marine analogues through and through. You were better off arguing about Grey Knights, really.

Hell, GW itself certainly thinks Space Wolves are equivalent to generic Space Marines; if you select Space Wolves in the US GW site, amongst the list of units is... every single generic Space Marine unit. Alongside Longfangs you have Devastators, and so on. They even show the generic "Space Marine Heroes" trio with that obnoxious ultramarine crest on the captain as options.

Heh.

Amusing how me simply showing dismay that all the Space Marine books are packed in the initial release of 8th edition turned in to yet another argument of "COMBINE THEM!" "NO DON'T!". I'd simply rather the releases of the various flavors of Space Marine codices be more spread out, personally.


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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well they ARE completely different because they have different heavy weapons and different power weapons.

And yet it's still a Space Marine holding them.

And Sisters are just humans in Power Armor compared to Scions, where the difference is the basic gun because you're taking either for Special Weapon spam. Of course nobody agrees that Scions should've gotten a codex in the first place, though thats a whole different conversation

However, under your logic it's a Space Marine holding the weapon regardless, then we just have Humans all holding weapons. Then we would just separate the Codices as Space Marines, Imperium, and Mechanicus. I don't think anyone wants that. Everyone gots bunches of special rules and all that junk. Like I said, I'm not against consolidation, but Chaos, Grey Knights, Deathwatch, and Space Wolves need to stay separate. The angels don't really need any special treatment, which is definitely part of the resentment some of the people have here.


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 Peregrine wrote:

 Galas wrote:
One could assume that at this point GW should have enough employes to write Codexs for aprox 20 factions even 30. But at the same time we could assume that they have enough money to hire competent rule writters so...

Obviously what you have said with the reality that they have limited emplyes is truth. But what point is enough faction-triming to have better written codex?

It's not just the number of employees, it's the length of the development cycle. Doing a codex right takes many people: a development team, a playtesting team, a rules manager to keep up with the rules interactions between books, etc. All of GW working together might, if they ditched their idiotic beliefs about game design, be able to write one codex at a time. So making a smaller number of combined codices means allowing a larger development investment and therefore better final quality than rushing out 20+ different codices so that each minor sub-faction has their own rulebook.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well they ARE completely different because they have different heavy weapons and different power weapons.

That doesn't matter from a fluff point of view. A power sword is a power sword, it doesn't need special snowflake rules to represent the fluff concept.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I don't disagree with Dark and Blood Angels being rolled up into the Vanilla codex, but you cannot argue for Space Wolves and Grey Knights and (to an extent) Deathwatch doing the same thing. They're just too different.

Sure I can.

SW are just normal marines with different names. Maybe they need a new unit entry or two for their power armored melee "scouts", but most of the army is just C:SM. And most of the things that aren't (TWC, the flyers, etc) are stupid concepts that should be dumped anyway.

GK and deathwatch should not exist in 40k. Fluff-wise their numbers are far too small to be relevant, and they should be limited to skirmish-scale games or maybe an occasional narrative scenario with special scenario-specific rules for using the existing marine models and codex to represent the special marines. But even with that in mind they're still largely just marines and can be represented by a "chapter tactics" style rule that gives them the psychic unit thing, and dumping the stupid dreadknight model that should never have been created in the first place.

1. Yeah they have Force Swords, however you forget about the Halberds, Falcions, and Hammers (though the comparison to Thunder Hammers wouldn't be far off).
2. Whether you want them dumped or not (I'm personally not big on the TWC being a unit), they already exist and are part of the way they don't function like a regular Space Marine army. You're having to create several different entries for this army, but how is that easier than just making the new Codex. You would have to make notes for Tactical Marines, Devastators, Scouts, the new unit entries, the various Power Weapons, etc. At that point it's an actual mess rather than being simple like you make it out to be. It's cleaner just to leave the separate Codices. Meanwhile, the Angels don't have enough special options that warrant the extra Codices.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Does FFG require physical cards to play in FFG tournaments?

Of course, but I don't see how that's relevant?

Probably just trying to subtly point out the mental gymnastics you have to do to claim X-wing rules are completley free (if you pirate them) while GW is forcing everyone to pay A THOUSAND DOLLARS to play the game at all.

 Bull0 wrote:
oh great, yet another 40k thread. Can't have enough of those! And confirming something that was obviously happening? I might need a sit down!

Last time we tried to have an all-in-one 40K Alpha yelled at us for being off topic (probably) and closed the thread.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
World Eaters and Emperor's Children are not going to be separate from the main CSM codex, at least not in the immediate.

Which is a real shame.

Honestly, as annoying as it'd be in the short term, I'd prefer they left them out of the new Chaos Codex.

 Breotan wrote:
That's a bit ambitious given how codexes were parceled ouet over years in previous editions.

It's the best way to do it IMO, and not just 'cause it's a new edition. The long wait between books has always been a killer, and getting as many of them developed at once and published in rapid succession is a good idea.

I just don't trust GW to get it right, 'cause even when they get the core rules right (or mostly right - plasma guns that are afraid of the dark notwithstanding!), they always screw up the Codices.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Does FFG require physical cards to play in FFG tournaments?

Of course, but I don't see how that's relevant?

Probably just trying to subtly point out the mental gymnastics you have to do to claim X-wing rules are completley free (if you pirate them) while GW is forcing everyone to pay A THOUSAND DOLLARS to play the game at all.

...you're pretty bad at math huh?

Sisters players will pay 20$ for the entire edition. Anyone with a more popular army will pay 60$ tops, plus 40$ more for each additional army the comes out.

Want to play this game on the cheap? Proxy whatever models you have as SoB or INQ and you'll never need anything more than the indexes.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
World Eaters and Emperor's Children are not going to be separate from the main CSM codex, at least not in the immediate. Only Death Guard and Thousand Sons are listed as separate factions on both the 40k website and in the 40k rulebook. WE and EC would need a full range to justify a codex, and that's not going to happen for now.

The four Chaos books will be Daemons, CSM, DG, TS.

With Angron release approaching that's fairly likely time for WE codex.

ERJAK wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Does FFG require physical cards to play in FFG tournaments?

Of course, but I don't see how that's relevant?

Probably just trying to subtly point out the mental gymnastics you have to do to claim X-wing rules are completley free (if you pirate them) while GW is forcing everyone to pay A THOUSAND DOLLARS to play the game at all.

...you're pretty bad at math huh?

Sisters players will pay 20$ for the entire edition. Anyone with a more popular army will pay 60$ tops, plus 40$ more for each additional army the comes out.

Want to play this game on the cheap? Proxy whatever models you have as SoB or INQ and you'll never need anything more than the indexes.

*Watches Lord blackfang's point sail majestically over Erjak's head*


I wonder which Index book will be the first to be totally replaced? My first thought was Chaos as the CSM and DG codex's are in the first wave, with Demons and 1k sons probably not far behind. But that Questor traitoris "list" could hang in there for a while yet. Index Imperium 1 on the other hand does cover more lists but its all about the settings poster boys.

I'm just gonna use the Indexes and Rulebook which give me a complete game between them. There's almost no need to buy anything else unless you'd want to, or play Tournaments. Sky is not falling.

Looking forward to the Space Marine codex. I just hope the Repulsor, Redemptor, Reiver, Agressor etc etc rules are in there as well. I don't want to see a codex release that needs more papers/books to supplement it within a month.

I remember when the Blood Angels codex had a Stormraven entry, but there wasn't a Stormraven model for quite some time. I'd much prefer this for the upcoming Primaris releases. People can feel free to convert their own models until they are officially released, but I just don't want three of four more datasheets on top of the codex right away..

Requizen wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 Whirlwind wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I think this is amazing news! 10 codexes in just over 6 months? It has always been (a valid criticism) that a Codex took too long. Putting them out at a rate of nearly 2 a month! Woohoo!

"But It means we need to buy them and they cost money"

Are you freaking kidding me? People will literally complain about anything.

You have to remember that not everyone has enough money that they can freely buy these things and not feel that it has been wasted if it is invalidated after only a few months. It is reasonable to expect to get some life out of your purchases. That £15-£30 could have gone on models that they would have preferred to buy rather than a book (and which they might only use part of).

Warlord with Gates of Antares shows what they should do in these circumstances. Free pdf downloads when they add knew units before eventually bringing out a supplement later on.

Look, anyone has the right to do what they want with their money and time.

But if a person is in a position where they have to pinch pennies to have a hobby budget, Warhammer probably just isn't the right hobby choice for them. £15 for books that last a month and will only be partially invalidated (still will be rules in there that won't be anywhere else) isn't even that bad in this hobby.

I sincerely hope everyone who expresses views like this ends up having to pinch pennies one day and that there's somebody there waiting for the moment they express some minor frustration about the price of something to smugly interject that they should be off doing some plebby hobby for plebs like collecting cardboard boxes or something fnar fnar.

If I was at the point where a $40 book would break the bank, I wouldn't be playing Warhammer.

I would love to collect antique cars. I love roadsters and would like to have a garage with 50 of them that I could care for, maintain, and take out for drives. But you don't see me complaining about the price of cars. If someone can't live within their means, the price of luxury hobbies are not to blame.

The fact that you're incapable of grasping that someone living within their means and so operating with a limited hobby budget is exactly why they might express a bit of frustration at the prospect a purchase will turn out to have less value than they initially thought it would is exactly the problem with your sanctimony. The underlying implication that anyone who does have to operate with a limited hobby budget shouldn't be part of the hobby at all is one that pops up on Dakka with pretty annoying frequency and it just needs to bloody stop - if people can't muster up some shred of basic sympathy for people who're not as well off, at least spare everyone the unsolicited financial advice.

Hear, hear, Yodhrin.

Gaming community needs to be welcoming, not elitist.

Seems like GW are damned if they do and damned if they dont, hopefully the datasheets coming with the new units from now on can help ease the pain of some of those people that begrudge paying out £15 for an intermediate book.

 Yodhrin wrote:


The fact that you're incapable of grasping that someone living within their means and so operating with a limited hobby budget is exactly why they might express a bit of frustration at the prospect a purchase will turn out to have less value than they initially thought it would is exactly the problem with your sanctimony. The underlying implication that anyone who does have to operate with a limited hobby budget shouldn't be part of the hobby at all is one that pops up on Dakka with pretty annoying frequency and it just needs to bloody stop - if people can't muster up some shred of basic sympathy for people who're not as well off, at least spare everyone the unsolicited financial advice.

Surely entering any hobby is acceptance of the associated costs? and therefore isn't it reasonable to be frustrated that every single thread is hijacked with "its too expensive, i cant believe i HAVE to buy this" and so on.

How is it elitism to accept that in this entirely none-essential hobby the prices are set by the manufacturer and whether you judge it to be worth the cost is your problem and not theirs?

When 8th was released it was quite apparent the marine codex would be first out, so i decided to spend the time between 8th release and the codex release painting instead of buying the index, in order to save the money. I didnt whine about the price, i budgeted and made a sacrifice of game time to accommodate my budget. Now i doubt im any less "well off" than most of the posters in this forum, i have enough expendable income to support this and other hobbies..... but i still make informed purchases and accept the reality that my valuation of a product does not effect the cost set by GW.

If the perceived elitist attitudes and unsolicited financial advice has to stop, then so does the incessant whining about how GW choose to price their products

If the codices get a £15 softback version, preferably without all the fluff, I'm all-in. Otherwise I'll just procure a free version through alternative methods for the extra rules, having already paid for a nicely-made index book.

Biggest concern at this point is the potential for codex creep, but with so many books coming out in such a short space of time, maybe they've been balanced together.

Cautiously optimistic.

 Yodhrin wrote:
... at least spare everyone the unsolicited financial advice.

*steeples fingers*

Have you thought about investing in gold?

 Imateria wrote:
So the first 4 codexs will be space marines of some colour/spikyness. Who wants to bet the next 5 after that will be Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels.

Enough with the fething space marines GW, in the last 2 years we've had all of 2 major none Power Armour releases (Tau and GSC), by October that number goes down to 1.

Oh Sweet! Blood Angels!

 Imateria wrote:
Enough with the fething space marines GW, in the last 2 years we've had all of 2 major none Power Armour releases (Tau and GSC), by October that number goes down to 1.

*checks over my 7th Ed In Memoriam*

Codex: Harlies - 2015
Codex: Skitarii - 2015
Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus - 2015
Codex: Genestealer Cults - 2016
Codex Imperial Agents - 2016 (it has Sisters, but still)

Duncan tweeted he's excited for us to see todays painting video. Prepare for a reveal, imo.