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Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

Dudeface wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the exact rumor is "Lacking the NORMAL options" this suggests to me that Plague Terminators will have options just differant ones. such as rather then a heavy flamer they'll be able to take a "Noxis bile thrower" etc

that said even if they have less options they'll proably be worth taking. keep in mind this is going to be cataphracti plate combined with disgustingly resiliant. they'll be plenty hard to kill.


Technically so do the scarab terminators, with their various heavy weapon options. I think most of us are assuming that those will be there, just less sure about melee options and base weapon options. No combi weapons would hurt fairly hard given we'd lack any deepstriking melta/plasma fun. No melee options would similarly be frustrating.


Surely you'd rather they made them unique and a valid interesting faction, rather than chaos marines with +1 toughness etc.


I'd rather them not write off large chunks of existing Death Guard players' armies for gimmick weapons.

We've had cult Terminators in 2nd ed, 3rd ed, 3.5 - during 5th and 6th they were Terminators with Mark of X, 7th we got them back in Traitor Legions. Guess what? They've always had the different weapon options such as various power weapons, combi-weapons and the like! It'd be a damn shame if people with Death Guard armies dating back several editions got screwed over for the sake of gimmick name Plague Weapons.



Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the exact rumor is "Lacking the NORMAL options" this suggests to me that Plague Terminators will have options just differant ones. such as rather then a heavy flamer they'll be able to take a "Noxis bile thrower" etc

that said even if they have less options they'll proably be worth taking. keep in mind this is going to be cataphracti plate combined with disgustingly resiliant. they'll be plenty hard to kill.


Technically so do the scarab terminators, with their various heavy weapon options. I think most of us are assuming that those will be there, just less sure about melee options and base weapon options. No combi weapons would hurt fairly hard given we'd lack any deepstriking melta/plasma fun. No melee options would similarly be frustrating.


Surely you'd rather they made them unique and a valid interesting faction, rather than chaos marines with +1 toughness etc.


I'd rather them not write off large chunks of existing Death Guard players' armies for gimmick weapons.

We've had cult Terminators in 2nd ed, 3rd ed, 3.5 - during 5th and 6th they were Terminators with Mark of X, 7th we got them back in Traitor Legions. Guess what? They've always had the different weapon options such as various power weapons, combi-weapons and the like! It'd be a damn shame if people with Death Guard armies dating back several editions got screwed over for the sake of gimmick name Plague Weapons.



Times change thought and if a small number of hand swaps is the biggest of the problems that's a solid release.

Would you rather stick to having chaos terminators with +1 toughness or disgusting resilience etc. Like they've always had, in which case they don't need their own kit or book, or a new kit with bespoke options for a flavourful unit at the loss of combi weapons?
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

Dudeface wrote:

Times change thought and if a small number of hand swaps is the biggest of the problems that's a solid release.

Would you rather stick to having chaos terminators with +1 toughness or disgusting resilience etc. Like they've always had, in which case they don't need their own kit or book, or a new kit with bespoke options for a flavourful unit at the loss of combi weapons?


I'd rather, as HMBC said earlier - the option for both exist. FW have sold a Death Guard Terminator kit for years. It was perhaps a bit sloppy of GW to forget that.

'But GW don't make rules for FW kits or units without models! '

Except for Assault Cannon Razorbacks it seems And Terminus Ultra Land Raiders.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

Times change thought and if a small number of hand swaps is the biggest of the problems that's a solid release.

Would you rather stick to having chaos terminators with +1 toughness or disgusting resilience etc. Like they've always had, in which case they don't need their own kit or book, or a new kit with bespoke options for a flavourful unit at the loss of combi weapons?


I'd rather, as HMBC said earlier - the option for both exist. FW have sold a Death Guard Terminator kit for years. It was perhaps a bit sloppy of GW to forget that.

'But GW don't make rules for FW kits or units without models! '

Except for Assault Cannon Razorbacks it seems And Terminus Ultra Land Raiders.


assault cannon razor backs where more a product of the era of "we'll make rules for this even though we don't have a kit" and FW filling that hole. the terminus ultra LR also existed as a kit once IIRC

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

BrianDavion wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

Times change thought and if a small number of hand swaps is the biggest of the problems that's a solid release.

Would you rather stick to having chaos terminators with +1 toughness or disgusting resilience etc. Like they've always had, in which case they don't need their own kit or book, or a new kit with bespoke options for a flavourful unit at the loss of combi weapons?


I'd rather, as HMBC said earlier - the option for both exist. FW have sold a Death Guard Terminator kit for years. It was perhaps a bit sloppy of GW to forget that.

'But GW don't make rules for FW kits or units without models! '

Except for Assault Cannon Razorbacks it seems And Terminus Ultra Land Raiders.


assault cannon razor backs where more a product of the era of "we'll make rules for this even though we don't have a kit" and FW filling that hole. the terminus ultra LR also existed as a kit once IIRC


Still doesn't justify the complete overlook concerning Death Guard Terminators.

Hell, if anything I'd happily see Death Guard having TWO Terminator units, a nod to their 30k status...much like you have Deathwing Knights and normal Deathwing...


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






 DarkStarSabre wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

Times change thought and if a small number of hand swaps is the biggest of the problems that's a solid release.

Would you rather stick to having chaos terminators with +1 toughness or disgusting resilience etc. Like they've always had, in which case they don't need their own kit or book, or a new kit with bespoke options for a flavourful unit at the loss of combi weapons?


I'd rather, as HMBC said earlier - the option for both exist. FW have sold a Death Guard Terminator kit for years. It was perhaps a bit sloppy of GW to forget that.

'But GW don't make rules for FW kits or units without models! '

Except for Assault Cannon Razorbacks it seems And Terminus Ultra Land Raiders.


assault cannon razor backs where more a product of the era of "we'll make rules for this even though we don't have a kit" and FW filling that hole. the terminus ultra LR also existed as a kit once IIRC


Still doesn't justify the complete overlook concerning Death Guard Terminators.

Hell, if anything I'd happily see Death Guard having TWO Terminator units, a nod to their 30k status...much like you have Deathwing Knights and normal Deathwing...


It wasn't an oversight. You can still give the original Termies the mark of Nurgle, and make renegade Nurgle worshiping Termies. The CSM codex coming soon might even give them a bonus like they could have for years.
But GW are making Death Guard their own faction with their own Terminators which will come with their own options. Same with the Vindicator; a gap that's being filled by the Plagueburst Crawler.
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Dudeface wrote:

Times change thought and if a small number of hand swaps is the biggest of the problems that's a solid release.

Would you rather stick to having chaos terminators with +1 toughness or disgusting resilience etc. Like they've always had, in which case they don't need their own kit or book, or a new kit with bespoke options for a flavourful unit at the loss of combi weapons?


I'd rather, as HMBC said earlier - the option for both exist. FW have sold a Death Guard Terminator kit for years. It was perhaps a bit sloppy of GW to forget that.

'But GW don't make rules for FW kits or units without models! '

Except for Assault Cannon Razorbacks it seems And Terminus Ultra Land Raiders.


assault cannon razor backs where more a product of the era of "we'll make rules for this even though we don't have a kit" and FW filling that hole. the terminus ultra LR also existed as a kit once IIRC


Still doesn't justify the complete overlook concerning Death Guard Terminators.

Hell, if anything I'd happily see Death Guard having TWO Terminator units, a nod to their 30k status...much like you have Deathwing Knights and normal Deathwing...


It wasn't an oversight. You can still give the original Termies the mark of Nurgle, and make renegade Nurgle worshiping Termies. The CSM codex coming soon might even give them a bonus like they could have for years.
But GW are making Death Guard their own faction with their own Terminators which will come with their own options. Same with the Vindicator; a gap that's being filled by the Plagueburst Crawler.


Pretty sure for a stopgap list to not include a unit as a stopgap unit until the Codex comes out is an oversight. As has been pointed out before - the Index list for Death Guard looks horrendous. It lierally looks like 'What was painted in our cabinet at the time'. It's pretty clear that Mat Hutson's Thousand Sons are the basis of the Thousand Sons list and that Wade Pryce's World Eaters are the basis of the World Eaters not having any restrictions.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in at
Boom! Leman Russ Commander





 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Still doesn't justify the complete overlook concerning Death Guard Terminators.

Hell, if anything I'd happily see Death Guard having TWO Terminator units, a nod to their 30k status...much like you have Deathwing Knights and normal Deathwing...

8th could've come with all rulebooks literally smeared in and stuck together by raw sewage and some people would defend it.
   
Made in au
Infiltrating Broodlord





Brisbane

 Arbitrator wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Still doesn't justify the complete overlook concerning Death Guard Terminators.

Hell, if anything I'd happily see Death Guard having TWO Terminator units, a nod to their 30k status...much like you have Deathwing Knights and normal Deathwing...

8th could've come with all rulebooks literally smeared in and stuck together by raw sewage and some people would defend it.


The opposite also holds true

 
   
Made in us
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade





Tornado Alley

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the exact rumor is "Lacking the NORMAL options" this suggests to me that Plague Terminators will have options just differant ones. such as rather then a heavy flamer they'll be able to take a "Noxis bile thrower" etc

that said even if they have less options they'll proably be worth taking. keep in mind this is going to be cataphracti plate combined with disgustingly resiliant. they'll be plenty hard to kill.


Technically so do the scarab terminators, with their various heavy weapon options. I think most of us are assuming that those will be there, just less sure about melee options and base weapon options. No combi weapons would hurt fairly hard given we'd lack any deepstriking melta/plasma fun. No melee options would similarly be frustrating.


Surely you'd rather they made them unique and a valid interesting faction, rather than chaos marines with +1 toughness etc.


I'd rather them not write off large chunks of existing Death Guard players' armies for gimmick weapons.

We've had cult Terminators in 2nd ed, 3rd ed, 3.5 - during 5th and 6th they were Terminators with Mark of X, 7th we got them back in Traitor Legions. Guess what? They've always had the different weapon options such as various power weapons, combi-weapons and the like! It'd be a damn shame if people with Death Guard armies dating back several editions got screwed over for the sake of gimmick name Plague Weapons.


This is the thing people don't seem to understand. My Vectorum was built around traitor legions. Lots of bikes. 2 magnetized fiends (Mauler/Forge) painted in my DG colors, 10 Termies, 2 Heldrakes which are not easily strippable, lots of vanilla CSM amongts others. My entire Army was panted Deathguard. I literally lost access to 1/3ish of my Army if I want to make a DG list. The money and time to strip them is not practical. The cost to replace them as a different legion is not practical. It means I have plastic that will sit on the shelf and never be used again to include my 2 favorite CSM models the Maulerfiend and the Heldrake.

10k CSM
1.5k Thousand Sons
2k Death Guard
3k Tau
3k Daemons(Tzeentch and Nurgle)
 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






 redleger wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the exact rumor is "Lacking the NORMAL options" this suggests to me that Plague Terminators will have options just differant ones. such as rather then a heavy flamer they'll be able to take a "Noxis bile thrower" etc

that said even if they have less options they'll proably be worth taking. keep in mind this is going to be cataphracti plate combined with disgustingly resiliant. they'll be plenty hard to kill.


Technically so do the scarab terminators, with their various heavy weapon options. I think most of us are assuming that those will be there, just less sure about melee options and base weapon options. No combi weapons would hurt fairly hard given we'd lack any deepstriking melta/plasma fun. No melee options would similarly be frustrating.


Surely you'd rather they made them unique and a valid interesting faction, rather than chaos marines with +1 toughness etc.


I'd rather them not write off large chunks of existing Death Guard players' armies for gimmick weapons.

We've had cult Terminators in 2nd ed, 3rd ed, 3.5 - during 5th and 6th they were Terminators with Mark of X, 7th we got them back in Traitor Legions. Guess what? They've always had the different weapon options such as various power weapons, combi-weapons and the like! It'd be a damn shame if people with Death Guard armies dating back several editions got screwed over for the sake of gimmick name Plague Weapons.


This is the thing people don't seem to understand. My Vectorum was built around traitor legions. Lots of bikes. 2 magnetized fiends (Mauler/Forge) painted in my DG colors, 10 Termies, 2 Heldrakes which are not easily strippable, lots of vanilla CSM amongts others. My entire Army was panted Deathguard. I literally lost access to 1/3ish of my Army if I want to make a DG list. The money and time to strip them is not practical. The cost to replace them as a different legion is not practical. It means I have plastic that will sit on the shelf and never be used again to include my 2 favorite CSM models the Maulerfiend and the Heldrake.


But you can give them the Nurgle Keyword and have them as traitor legions who are devoted to Nurgle, which is the same thing, and you'll probably get a bonus for it in the CSM codex when it comes out, so your army still totally works
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

What's the big deal if Death Guard Terminators/Plague Terminators have access to Combi-Bolters/Combi-Meltas/Combi-Flamers/Reaper ACs/Heavy Flamers?

Surely having all the options is the best of all worlds?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

 Arbitrator wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Still doesn't justify the complete overlook concerning Death Guard Terminators.

Hell, if anything I'd happily see Death Guard having TWO Terminator units, a nod to their 30k status...much like you have Deathwing Knights and normal Deathwing...

8th could've come with all rulebooks literally smeared in and stuck together by raw sewage and some people would defend it.


Not sure who that's aimed at....

And as HBMC has said - why is everyone opposed to Cult Terminators having access to normal weapon options as well? Why are you all so set on them only having fixed layouts?

Do Deathwing have fixed layouts?
Do Wolf Guard Terminators have fixed layouts?

Because that is what Cult Terminators are the equivalent of.

If you really want Special Cult Unit X then take the Deathwing Approach.

Grave Wardens = Deathwing Knights
Terminators = Deathwing Terminators.

The only reason Thousand Sons have a fixed layout is because their units are intended to have fixed layouts across the board - something to do with basically being animated suits of armour. Even then my only issue with the Scarab Occult is the weapon choice was bizarre. They really should have gone with Power Axes rather than Swords. That would have been a lot friendlier to existing TS players.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dudeface wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
the exact rumor is "Lacking the NORMAL options" this suggests to me that Plague Terminators will have options just differant ones. such as rather then a heavy flamer they'll be able to take a "Noxis bile thrower" etc

that said even if they have less options they'll proably be worth taking. keep in mind this is going to be cataphracti plate combined with disgustingly resiliant. they'll be plenty hard to kill.


Technically so do the scarab terminators, with their various heavy weapon options. I think most of us are assuming that those will be there, just less sure about melee options and base weapon options. No combi weapons would hurt fairly hard given we'd lack any deepstriking melta/plasma fun. No melee options would similarly be frustrating.


Surely you'd rather they made them unique and a valid interesting faction, rather than chaos marines with +1 toughness etc.


Well, that depends entirely. Unique and interesting is good generally, but can also mean inflexible and bad. Look at the number of units DG can currently field from the CSM index, vs what unique chapters can field from space marines. If our new options are also inflexible, the army will just be bad and fail to work. Terminators are of particular interest given how slow our army is and the fact it is likely to be our sole deepstriking unit.

Then we have the lore issue. There is nothing unfluffy about DG using terminators with normal configurations. They have more variations on them yes, but there has always been established lore saying we did have normal terminator variations. So invalidating large portions of existing models despite being perfectly fluffy and lore friendly isn't going to make existing players happy.

Then their is the traitor legion issue. More than a few of us recently bought units for DG. Seeing them be invalidated so quickly would be incredibly annoying. No, them being just nurgle marked members of other legions isn't acceptable either, many of these were bought and painted as DG, intended to be used as DG. I'll accept some losses for the sake of lore, like raptors, but there is a real limit on what is acceptable. Having a unit removed from your army mere months after you purchased it due to a brand new supplement encouraging or possibly requiring it is not going to go over well, and every unit that is incompatible just makes it worse. For something like terminators, who do fit lore, they really need to stay.

So yeah, unique is good, but we absolutely should have access to old configurations terminators as well. Similarly I hope we gain access to some troops that can use heavy weapons, if only so my havocs don't become old clutter.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 17:21:45


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Still doesn't justify the complete overlook concerning Death Guard Terminators.

Hell, if anything I'd happily see Death Guard having TWO Terminator units, a nod to their 30k status...much like you have Deathwing Knights and normal Deathwing...

8th could've come with all rulebooks literally smeared in and stuck together by raw sewage and some people would defend it.


Not sure who that's aimed at....

And as HBMC has said - why is everyone opposed to Cult Terminators having access to normal weapon options as well? Why are you all so set on them only having fixed layouts?

Do Deathwing have fixed layouts?
Do Wolf Guard Terminators have fixed layouts?

Because that is what Cult Terminators are the equivalent of.

If you really want Special Cult Unit X then take the Deathwing Approach.

Grave Wardens = Deathwing Knights
Terminators = Deathwing Terminators.

The only reason Thousand Sons have a fixed layout is because their units are intended to have fixed layouts across the board - something to do with basically being animated suits of armour. Even then my only issue with the Scarab Occult is the weapon choice was bizarre. They really should have gone with Power Axes rather than Swords. That would have been a lot friendlier to existing TS players.

I can't speak for now, but Wolf Guard Terminators have always been closer to Chaos Terminators in terms of loadouts. Lots of individuality.
It's a relatively recent thing for Deathwing Terminators to be more flexible.

I also wouldn't say that Cult Terminators are really equivalent to anything in particular from the Loyalist line-up. Wolf Guard and Deathwing have that individualization because there's no "Deathwing/Wolf Guard Assault Terminators"/"Deathwing/Wolf Guard Terminators" laid out. Remember that Deathwing Knights are, effectively, one book old.

That said--I don't see why Cult Terminators can't have a unique loadout to them. Cult stuff has always had something unique and interesting to them. Whether it's Inferno Boltguns, Plague Knives, Chainaxes, or Sonic weaponry there's always been something for those factions.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
 DarkStarSabre wrote:
Still doesn't justify the complete overlook concerning Death Guard Terminators.

Hell, if anything I'd happily see Death Guard having TWO Terminator units, a nod to their 30k status...much like you have Deathwing Knights and normal Deathwing...

8th could've come with all rulebooks literally smeared in and stuck together by raw sewage and some people would defend it.


Not sure who that's aimed at....

And as HBMC has said - why is everyone opposed to Cult Terminators having access to normal weapon options as well? Why are you all so set on them only having fixed layouts?

Do Deathwing have fixed layouts?
Do Wolf Guard Terminators have fixed layouts?

Because that is what Cult Terminators are the equivalent of.

If you really want Special Cult Unit X then take the Deathwing Approach.

Grave Wardens = Deathwing Knights
Terminators = Deathwing Terminators.

The only reason Thousand Sons have a fixed layout is because their units are intended to have fixed layouts across the board - something to do with basically being animated suits of armour. Even then my only issue with the Scarab Occult is the weapon choice was bizarre. They really should have gone with Power Axes rather than Swords. That would have been a lot friendlier to existing TS players.

Many people (like myself) would argue a unit like Deathwing has no purpose existing, and is another pointless way to try and keep Dark and Blood Angels into separate Codices.

Plus there's not much wrong with a fixed loadout. Regular Chaos Terminators got you covered for flexible loadouts, and the fixed layouts for Cult Terminators is balanced by pretty good rules. I actually LIKE the current Rubric Terminators and how they function.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Plus there's not much wrong with a fixed loadout. Regular Chaos Terminators got you covered for flexible loadouts, and the fixed layouts for Cult Terminators is balanced by pretty good rules. I actually LIKE the current Rubric Terminators and how they function.


Which would be fine if DG have access to regular chaos terminators. But the worry is we will only have the fixed loadout version, as many view allied terminators form another legion as an unacceptable solution.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/15 19:04:53


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




SilverAlien wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Plus there's not much wrong with a fixed loadout. Regular Chaos Terminators got you covered for flexible loadouts, and the fixed layouts for Cult Terminators is balanced by pretty good rules. I actually LIKE the current Rubric Terminators and how they function.


Which would be fine if DG have access to regular chaos terminators. But the worry is we will only have the fixed loadout version, as many view allied terminators form another legion as an unacceptable solution.

Do Thousand Sons get regular Terminators under the current index? If so, I understand the hatred.

In the meantime I've just been doing a generic CSM force. Mostly been waiting for the actual codex myself and until then I'll focus on our Loyalist Scum counterparts.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Somebody asked about the plastic of the easy build plague marines at some point,

having just build a set I can confirm the plastic is slightly softer that the normal grey stuff, but it's pretty marginal

(the colour is mighty fine though, mighty fine)

 
   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




Why should the TS have regular Termiantors?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Plus there's not much wrong with a fixed loadout. Regular Chaos Terminators got you covered for flexible loadouts, and the fixed layouts for Cult Terminators is balanced by pretty good rules. I actually LIKE the current Rubric Terminators and how they function.


Which would be fine if DG have access to regular chaos terminators. But the worry is we will only have the fixed loadout version, as many view allied terminators form another legion as an unacceptable solution.

Do Thousand Sons get regular Terminators under the current index? If so, I understand the hatred.

In the meantime I've just been doing a generic CSM force. Mostly been waiting for the actual codex myself and until then I'll focus on our Loyalist Scum counterparts.


No, but why would one CSM cult legion being hot garbage mean we want the other cult legions also being hot garbage? It's also annoying given it was previously established units of non rubric Tsons did exist, with units of psychic chosen and possessed being a thing both in older codices and in lore. Hopefully this might also be fixed with a full codex though.

As for why neither of these are acceptable... they not only violate lore and result in cruddy armies, they are an example of CSM once again getting the short in compered to loyalists, who lose significantly fewer models with their unique chapters and usually get proper compensation for it as well. So hopefully the person writing our codex has some sense, but who knows?
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




SilverAlien wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Plus there's not much wrong with a fixed loadout. Regular Chaos Terminators got you covered for flexible loadouts, and the fixed layouts for Cult Terminators is balanced by pretty good rules. I actually LIKE the current Rubric Terminators and how they function.


Which would be fine if DG have access to regular chaos terminators. But the worry is we will only have the fixed loadout version, as many view allied terminators form another legion as an unacceptable solution.

Do Thousand Sons get regular Terminators under the current index? If so, I understand the hatred.

In the meantime I've just been doing a generic CSM force. Mostly been waiting for the actual codex myself and until then I'll focus on our Loyalist Scum counterparts.


No, but why would one CSM cult legion being hot garbage mean we want the other cult legions also being hot garbage? It's also annoying given it was previously established units of non rubric Tsons did exist, with units of psychic chosen and possessed being a thing both in older codices and in lore. Hopefully this might also be fixed with a full codex though.

As for why neither of these are acceptable... they not only violate lore and result in cruddy armies, they are an example of CSM once again getting the short in compered to loyalists, who lose significantly fewer models with their unique chapters and usually get proper compensation for it as well. So hopefully the person writing our codex has some sense, but who knows?

We don't know what the codex holds for Thousand Sons, but at least their famous units are actually functioning for the first time. I like Rubric Marines and Rubric Terminators now. All we really need is more units available and more rules. If the SM codex is as good as I think it'll be, I think we'll be fine. We just need patience is all.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
SilverAlien wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Plus there's not much wrong with a fixed loadout. Regular Chaos Terminators got you covered for flexible loadouts, and the fixed layouts for Cult Terminators is balanced by pretty good rules. I actually LIKE the current Rubric Terminators and how they function.


Which would be fine if DG have access to regular chaos terminators. But the worry is we will only have the fixed loadout version, as many view allied terminators form another legion as an unacceptable solution.

Do Thousand Sons get regular Terminators under the current index? If so, I understand the hatred.


Thousand Sons never had the ability to upgrade their Terminators - such was the downside of being Rubric. The pay off was increased resilience (either in weapon immunity, increased wounds or increased invuln saves). In that respect the Scarab Occult are fine. The main issue is the fact that they are stuck with mandatory power swords when the CSM range has exactly....TWO Chaos Terminator power sword arms - one of which being a long OOP RT Terminator arm and the other being on the opposite arm from a normal weapon - so to have expected Thousand Sons players to have modelled power swords was a bit fething rich.

Axes have always been more common and readily available and you could also argue that the weapon carried - a khopesh actually functioned more like an axe than a sword.

But here's the thing - Thousand Sons, by default are an army that really didn't upgrade units. The fluff supported a fixed loadout and the payoff was increased resilience and better firepower at mid-range.

Death Guard have no such restrictions. They are an army capable of upgrading units. Same with World Eaters, same with Emperor's Children.

So to expect these Legions to be happy with fixed loadout Terminators because the one Legion that a fixed loadout approach was always present with got that makes zero since.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




I think it's a problem with GWs thought process when designing the 2 armies. I think when GW sat down and decided to try and make the Death Guard army they did it in such a way that they always intended them to be a stand alone faction in 40k. When they designed the Thousand Sons they offered you some limited choice to make the die hard fans happy, but ultimately their units were designed specifically to fill holes in the standard CSM roster. And this is unfortunate. There is no way that Thousand Sons will be competitive with what we've seen so far so unless they get more units or options when their book comes out they'll likely never be seen.

If DG are going to be released with the idea that they're going to be a competitive, stand alone faction in 40k they will need flexibility in how their units are able to be built and deployed. Otherwise they'll be a failure just like the Thousand Sons are shaping up to be currently without any other unannounced changes (there is 0 chance a revised psychic table is all the army needs to be competitive).
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






I'm not opposed to DG Terminators having the normal options, I'm just saying what GW is doing and how it isn't an oversight on their part but intentional.

You can give Terminators the mark of Nurgle. This means your Terminators can still be traitors who worship Nurgle. And in the CSM codex when it comes out, it'll probably give a bonus.

Death Guard are different though. They are an ancient legion from 30k. Like Thousand Sons, they work with traitors who worship the same god but, truely, they are a seperate army. So when people say they use their traitor army as DG, do you mean you're using them as Nurgle worshiping renegades? If so you can still do that and your army isn't invalidated.

If you want to use true DG though, they're bringing out awesome new Termie figures for us to use, with new options (going by the Plague Spitter in the one picture we've seen). I personally am excited for this. I can see why some people are frustrated, and if I'm wrong let me know, but it seems like your armies are still valid by giving them the mark of Nurgle Keyword and calling them traitor followers of Nurgle

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/16 03:08:07


 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Chaos Terminator






Surfing the Tervigon Wave...on a baby.

 Tiberius501 wrote:


If you want to use true DG though, they're bringing out awesome new Termie figures for us to use, with new options (going by the Plague Spitter in the one picture we've seen). I personally am excited for this. I can see why some people are frustrated, and if I'm wrong let me know, but it seems like your armies are still valid by giving them the mark of Nurgle Keyword and calling them traitor followers of Nurgle


I beg your pardon? Who are you to determine what is 'true' Death Guard or not? My army is Death Guard. It is painted as Death Guard. It is fielded as Death Guard. IT is the second such army - this particular one since 5th edition, its predecessor since 2nd edition.

Giving them the Nurgle keyword and fielding them as 'traitor followers'? Son, no. I don't think that's an acceptable compromise at all. You're telling me an army that has been visibly and thematically based around the Death Guard for damn near a decade is now suddenly no longer so for the case of some gimmick weapons? Did you even read what you put? Did you even read previous statements?

Do you even understand how people can be raising concerns that units which have sufficed and represented their Legion well, in some cases for close to 20 years are now suddenly being told 'HURR HURR, ACTUALLY' and expected to roll over and accept it happily?

'Awesome new Termie figures' - stop trying to sell them. We've seen one and in my personal opinion it looks like ass. Egghead with cheesy grin? Ew. No thank you. I'll take my grill helm and silent menace over GW's approach of TENTACLES AND FLESH EVERYWHERE.


Now only a CSM player. 
   
Made in au
Hissing Hybrid Metamorph






 DarkStarSabre wrote:
 Tiberius501 wrote:


If you want to use true DG though, they're bringing out awesome new Termie figures for us to use, with new options (going by the Plague Spitter in the one picture we've seen). I personally am excited for this. I can see why some people are frustrated, and if I'm wrong let me know, but it seems like your armies are still valid by giving them the mark of Nurgle Keyword and calling them traitor followers of Nurgle


I beg your pardon? Who are you to determine what is 'true' Death Guard or not? My army is Death Guard. It is painted as Death Guard. It is fielded as Death Guard. IT is the second such army - this particular one since 5th edition, its predecessor since 2nd edition.

Giving them the Nurgle keyword and fielding them as 'traitor followers'? Son, no. I don't think that's an acceptable compromise at all. You're telling me an army that has been visibly and thematically based around the Death Guard for damn near a decade is now suddenly no longer so for the case of some gimmick weapons? Did you even read what you put? Did you even read previous statements?

Do you even understand how people can be raising concerns that units which have sufficed and represented their Legion well, in some cases for close to 20 years are now suddenly being told 'HURR HURR, ACTUALLY' and expected to roll over and accept it happily?

'Awesome new Termie figures' - stop trying to sell them. We've seen one and in my personal opinion it looks like ass. Egghead with cheesy grin? Ew. No thank you. I'll take my grill helm and silent menace over GW's approach of TENTACLES AND FLESH EVERYWHERE.


Sorry man, I didn't meant to tell you what your army is. I don't want to cause arguments so you've made your case
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

I don't see a problem with Death Guard having normal marked terminators + Special DG terminators.
If us Dark Angels can, them too!

Just a more chaosy version of this and they can sell me 3 boxes!




Spoiler:
Waiting here for the "ur dhur you don't need more terminators" crow!
We don't need them. I need more new vespids. But it isn't like they are gonna say "Nah guys, you know what? Just don't sell this kit we have already done and boxed!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/16 04:35:28


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

RazorEdge wrote:
Why should the TS have regular Termiantors?
They shouldn't. If you're pat of the Thousand Sons, you're either a ghost in your armour or you're a Sorcerer. There's no room for "regular" units.

This is the major thing that separates Thousand Sons from the other 'Cult' units.

Death Guard = Plague Marines
Plague Marines =/= Death Guard

Emperor's Children = Noise Marines
Noise Marines =/= Emperor's Children

World Eaters = Berzerkers
Berzerkers =/= World Eaters

Thousand Sons = Thousand Sons Marines
Thousand Sons Marines = Thousand Sons

The giveaway is in the name.

Of course Death Guard should have access to a few different weapons, no different to how Noise Marines would. But that shouldn't restrict them from the regular weapons (unless its a doctrinal thing, like how it seems that Death Guard + Heavy Weapons = No thanks!). So Death Guard Terminators should have Blight Launchers or fancy contagion spreading weapons or whatever... and regular Combi-Weapons/HTH weapons.

 Galas wrote:
I don't see a problem with Death Guard having normal marked terminators + Special DG terminators.
If us Dark Angels can, them too!
But Dark Angels don't have normal Terminators. They don't have Terminator and Terminator Assault Squads. They have their own unit, Deathwing Terminators, that combines all the options of the two, and then on top of that have extra-special ones. The comparison here would be like saying that Dark Angels should have Deathwing Terminators, and also have Terminator and Terminator Assault Squads on top of that. What would be the point?

What some of us are trying to get across here is that there shouldn't really be a distinction between "Nurgle Marked Terminator" and "Plague Terminator". The two should be one and the same. This is what the 3.5 Codex got right where the last Chaos Codex did not.

Chaos Space Marine* w/Mark of Nurgle should just = Plague Marine*
Chaos Space Marine* w/Mark of Khorne should just = Khorne Berzerker.
Chaos Space Marine* w/Mark of Slaanesh should just = Noise Marine*.

*Replace 'Marine' with 'Terminator' or 'Biker' or whatever you feel fits.

All three of these unit are not unique to the Death Guard, World Eaters and Emperor's Children, with Black Legion versions of these 'Cult Troops' being brought up all the time.

Thousand Sons are unique here.


This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2017/07/16 04:45:12


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader




Solid explanation.
   
 
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