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 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.

This is why, aside from Magnus, a Heldrake and cultists, I have not added a new model to my CSM army that's got a sculpt younger than about 13 years. I just feel the new models are cartoon like and increasingly far too uniform. Every single minature in my CMS army is unique, I have no repeat poses or combinations at all outside of the metal daemons; even my bog standard marines are each an individual character. I will be getting the new Ahriman though as I do love that new sculpt; a shame he doesn't have rules to go with it.

On topic, I really like the new Mortarion model, it genuinely looks threatening and with the right paint scheme will be ace.

I am surprised we've not had any rules leaks yet.

Semper wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.

This is why, aside from Magnus, a Heldrake and cultists, I have not added a new model to my CSM army that's got a sculpt younger than about 13 years. I just feel the new models are cartoon like and increasingly far too uniform. Every single minature in my CMS army is unique, I have no repeat poses or combinations at all outside of the metal daemons; even my bog standard marines are each an individual character. I will be getting the new Ahriman though as I do love that new sculpt; a shame he doesn't have rules to go with it.

On topic, I really like the new Mortarion model, it genuinely looks threatening and with the right paint scheme will be ace.

I am surprised we've not had any rules leaks yet.

This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.

Brian888 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.

He's not Supersonic/Hard to hit so it would only be -1 to hit.

Qlanth wrote:

Semper wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.

This is why, aside from Magnus, a Heldrake and cultists, I have not added a new model to my CSM army that's got a sculpt younger than about 13 years. I just feel the new models are cartoon like and increasingly far too uniform. Every single minature in my CMS army is unique, I have no repeat poses or combinations at all outside of the metal daemons; even my bog standard marines are each an individual character. I will be getting the new Ahriman though as I do love that new sculpt; a shame he doesn't have rules to go with it.

On topic, I really like the new Mortarion model, it genuinely looks threatening and with the right paint scheme will be ace.

I am surprised we've not had any rules leaks yet.

This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

If true, I was hoping for much better toughess and wounds on him. The aura is great though. Hope this means he would be around same price as Magnus. Funny that Magnus will probably be much tougher though.

 Virules wrote:
If true, I was hoping for much better toughess and wounds on him. The aura is great though. Hope this means he would be around same price as Magnus. Funny that Magnus will probably be much tougher though.

Why is Magnus much tougher? Mortarian is gonna get a 5+++ and may have the same 4++ as Magnus.

Brian888 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.

I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Virules wrote:
If true, I was hoping for much better toughess and wounds on him. The aura is great though. Hope this means he would be around same price as Magnus. Funny that Magnus will probably be much tougher though.

Why is Magnus much tougher? Mortarian is gonna get a 5+++ and may have the same 4++ as Magnus.

Magnus can cast +1 to invul save on himself and rerolls invul saves of 1. So you have a 3++ rerolling 1s versus a 4++ followed by 5++. I don't know the math, but I would rather have a really good chance of blocking all damage than having to take mortal wound saves against 1/3 of the wounds that got through my worse invul saves. Of course, a 5++ is better when you have mortal wounds.

Being able to move 32" with Magnus is also greater for survival and getting into melee, whereas Morty won't have that. Also, while Morty can get -1 to hit cast on him, you have the same thing for the first round anyway with Changeling on Magnus.

 mrhappyface wrote:

Brian888 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.

He's not Supersonic/Hard to hit so it would only be -1 to hit.

D'oh! You're absolutely right.

Qlanth wrote:

Brian888 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.

I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?

Yeah, he hated psykers, to the point that Typhon had to pretend that he wasn't a psyker around Mortarion. Delicious irony, that.

The irony being he (Mortarion) started using "magic" i.e. psychic power to combat them. He ultimately became a psyker, there's even a HH short about his initial forays, but I forget the name (or it may be a section of a novel, it all blends together a bit.)

Qlanth wrote:

Brian888 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.

I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?

He was convinced that learning how to use psychic powers would allow him to better destroy Psykers, ultimately becoming what he hated most

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:

Brian888 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.

I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?

He was convinced that learning how to use psychic powers would allow him to better destroy Psykers, ultimately becoming what he hated most

I think the anti psyker sentiment goes out the window when you worship a chaos god besides khorne.

 Virules wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Virules wrote:
If true, I was hoping for much better toughess and wounds on him. The aura is great though. Hope this means he would be around same price as Magnus. Funny that Magnus will probably be much tougher though.

Why is Magnus much tougher? Mortarian is gonna get a 5+++ and may have the same 4++ as Magnus.

Magnus can cast +1 to invul save on himself and rerolls invul saves of 1. So you have a 3++ rerolling 1s versus a 4++ followed by 5++. I don't know the math, but I would rather have a really good chance of blocking all damage than having to take mortal wound saves against 1/3 of the wounds that got through my worse invul saves. Of course, a 5++ is better when you have mortal wounds.

Being able to move 32" with Magnus is also greater for survival and getting into melee, whereas Morty won't have that. Also, while Morty can get -1 to hit cast on him, you have the same thing for the first round anyway with Changeling on Magnus.

Morty will probably have disgusting resilience for a 5+ against each wound suffered, putting him at an effective 27 wounds.

Keep some Nurgle Herald or Daemons Daemon Prince for Flesh Abundance too and he can be healed D3 Wounds a turn.

Assuming he has the Nurgle and Daemon keywords. Which is almost certain.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Keep some Nurgle Herald or Daemons Daemon Prince for Flesh Abundance too and he can be healed D3 Wounds a turn.

Assuming he has the Nurgle and Daemon keywords. Which is almost certain.

Plus the Heretic Astartes 2 CP strategem to heal d3 wounds on a model.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Binabik15 wrote:
Corvus Belli does similiar pose cloning with their CAD stuff. The get a lot of flak for it, too. If I remember my examples right they use some poses for totally different types of models in a few cases and the cloning still shows.

It was pretty common among GW's metal miniatures. I mean, the best examples are the Necromunda range and the metal Guard ranges, which were full of similar models with slightly different positions/weapon load outs, all based around the same 4-5 core miniatures.

And that was fine. It's just the way metal models were done, same as the "2D" nature of making metal minis across as single plane to decrease the amount of parts needed (the Phoenix Lords are great examples of this).

With mirroring plastic minis like this? Seems kinda cheap... or expensive, really, given it's seventy-fething-dollars for 3 of the damned things.

It might be a case of diminishing returns, kind of. As you said metals were pretty flat at the time and with less detail (or less busy, depending on your prerences in miniature design). The Plague Marines are so crusted with fine details you kind of glaze over that the silhoutte is somehow more important. The metal ganger models are individuals with a different head, gun and sime bits and bobs because each part makes a big difference.

Marine_With_Heart wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Wow. You weren't kidding. They are mirrored.

Will the WD article that comes with it need to be read using a mirror?

That's new, isn't it? GW's been working with CAD and asset libraries for a while and it's probably a big part of why they can churn out so many releases. And it's also not like this is a CAD only thing. Twenty years ago they would take a metal character and resculpt wargear and some details and you'd get a very similar model, too, getting more mileage out of a sculptor's work.

But actually going and just mirroring the basic model before sticking different bits on? Wow. That's something.

Part of me thinks that perhaps these were alternative kits or weapon combos or other designs for marines that were cut from the DI box or something for balance or not as preferred over the marines they did include.

Seems plausible. Would result in four pairs of clones and an unique dude and the sarge in a ten man squad. The one doubled up pair of sculpt in the box is much simpler in what was changed, though. Maybe they were dropped at an early stage of sprue design when they didn't have space enough.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Morty will probably have disgusting resilience for a 5+ against each wound suffered, putting him at an effective 27 wounds.

Yes, but not really due to the way you roll to save each individual wound from a multi-damage gun.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Morty will probably have disgusting resilience for a 5+ against each wound suffered, putting him at an effective 27 wounds.

Yes, but not really due to the way you roll to save each individual wound from a multi-damage gun.

You take a wound from a damage 3 weapon. Armor/invul fails. You roll three dice for disgusting resilience, turning what would have been 3 damage into 2 damage. It is exactly like what I said.

 Azreal13 wrote:
The irony being he (Mortarion) started using "magic" i.e. psychic power to combat them. He ultimately became a psyker, there's even a HH short about his initial forays, but I forget the name (or it may be a section of a novel, it all blends together a bit.)

name of the story is Daemonology

mikesorensonxx wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:

Brian888 wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
This is hearsay, but a player at the LGS claimed to be a playtester and said he had an advance copy of the DG codex a couple weeks ago.

Claimed that Mortarion was T7 , 18 wounds, and anything within 7 inches has -1 toughness. Thats all he said.

Hard to say if it's true or not. I doubt we'll have to wait much longer to start seeing pictures.

The aura sounds pretty nasty. He'd allow Blight Launcher's to wound marines on 2's. I won't believe it until I see it, but sounds pretty solid if it's true

Very interesting! We should also consider that given the fact that Mortarion will almost certainly be a psyker who has the Fly keyword and has access to Miasma of Pestilence, it'll be very easy for him to impose a -2 penalty on shooting at him.

I could be wrong but I thought a key part of Mortarion's backstory was his distrust of psykers?

He was convinced that learning how to use psychic powers would allow him to better destroy Psykers, ultimately becoming what he hated most

I think the anti psyker sentiment goes out the window when you worship a chaos god besides khorne.

He still both loathes and loves psykers/psychic powers/himself 10,000 years later - at the HH Weekender, Chris Wraight described his relationship with the warp as that of an alcoholic, even as a Daemon Primarch.

'I can quit thish whole daemon thing whenever I like! I shwear!'

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
'I can quit thish whole daemon thing whenever I like! I shwear!'

So, he's 40K's Rick?

Any deathguard news from Nova? I've not seen any new info from there.

None at all, but we don't have long to wait now

With pre-orders opening on Sept 9th, we'll certainly be getting a nice preview next week. Probably Sunday.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.

And yet there is far more variety in an army composed of repeats of 10 highly individual, dynamic sculpts than what you typically get with the "modular" minis that are really just different combinations of repeats of 4 components all in the same "pooping standing up" pose with the bonus that you can wiggle the waist and shoulder a little, but honestly not that much or it looks unnatural.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Maybe GW should go back to multi-part, multi-pose kits and cloning wouldn't be as much of an issue. The trend towards monopose has really undermined the hobby aspect, in that all armies are now looking more and more the same.

And yet there is far more variety in an army composed of repeats of 10 highly individual, dynamic sculpts than what you typically get with the "modular" minis that are really just different combinations of repeats of 4 components all in the same "pooping standing up" pose with the bonus that you can wiggle the waist and shoulder a little, but honestly not that much or it looks unnatural.

The Vanguard Veteran box begs to differ. That was a multi-pose, multi-part kit that allowed for a load of customization and options without the unit looking too similar across expanded squad sizes. Whereas when you get the monopose sculpts, you wind up with a bland looking unit. Just look at Fulgurites. No reason those can't have more variation, but they don't. You get 5 heads for 5 models. Nothing extra. 5 arm poses. Nothing extra. 5 sets of legs. Nothing extra. I have ten painted and I did light customization work (changing closed/open hands) and even still they all look so similar due to that.

While I appreciate the higher detail and whatnot, that we are getting much more limited posing seems to limit the hobby aspect. I would like to see more variation, not less, but GW is going that route now. At least the weird LE 3-pack are mirrors with changes, so they won't look too obviously the same.

Possessed have a very diverse set of options as well.