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There's been a fair amount of talk of chapter tactics, but I'm not sure there will be. I think its possible there'll be vectorium tactics, given how they listed the different ones in the DI booklet along with paint schemes etc.

Also the recent Community post said

you’ll be able to build a powerful Vectorium of your own

which could be just a turn of speech like "you'll be able to build an army of your own" but might support my theory.

I don't have the gk codex so don't know but are there different groupings or subfactions in that?

Warhams-77 wrote:
And a new artwork

I do not expect specific Cultist models. But those in the background look like Nurgle Cultists, classic RT-style. One may have a dog/animal with him



Mild NSFW


I guess they will make it from the Index into the Codex army list.

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
There's been a fair amount of talk of chapter tactics, but I'm not sure there will be. I think its possible there'll be vectorium tactics, given how they listed the different ones in the DI booklet along with paint schemes etc.

Also the recent Community post said

you’ll be able to build a powerful Vectorium of your own

which could be just a turn of speech like "you'll be able to build an army of your own" but might support my theory.

I don't have the gk codex so don't know but are there different groupings or subfactions in that?

The GK codex did not. That being said, the DG would have more variance than the GK between internal factions. So it could go either way.

Well, Grey Knights are one chapter of Space Marines. Death Guard is an entire legion worth of Sucessors Chapters, so if Black Templars, Imperial Fist and Crimson Fists can have different rules or in the case of templars, different Chapter Tactics... they can give Death Guard different chapter tactics for big vectors/warbands/etc...

C'mon Weeping Legion tactics!

 jamesterjlrb wrote:
There's been a fair amount of talk of chapter tactics, but I'm not sure there will be. I think its possible there'll be vectorium tactics, given how they listed the different ones in the DI booklet along with paint schemes etc.

Also the recent Community post said

you’ll be able to build a powerful Vectorium of your own

which could be just a turn of speech like "you'll be able to build an army of your own" but might support my theory.

I don't have the gk codex so don't know but are there different groupings or subfactions in that?

I wouldn't read too much into that. It sounds like they are basically implying you can build and paint your own death guard vectorum, not that there will be special chapter tactics.

I'd also point out that even if they do give different options said options likely aren't that extensive. Maybe like 3 choices. I say this purely because the WD blurb doesn't bother to even mention it or the CT bonus in general.

I dont think we will but I'd be happy as hel to have Vectoriums tactics, would help justify the different schemes amongst my Death Guard.

Also, what's the chances that we get Plague Havocs? I see a lot of people trying to guess what's in the codex, and I don't think we'll get 2 tank variants.

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I dont think we will but I'd be happy as hel to have Vectoriums tactics, would help justify the different schemes amongst my Death Guard.

Also, what's the chances that we get Plague Havocs? I see a lot of people trying to guess what's in the codex, and I don't think we'll get 2 tank variants.

I hope to Nurgle we do, using that stratagem on them would be a bit broken though...

 Kharne the Befriender wrote:
I dont think we will but I'd be happy as hel to have Vectoriums tactics, would help justify the different schemes amongst my Death Guard.

Also, what's the chances that we get Plague Havocs? I see a lot of people trying to guess what's in the codex, and I don't think we'll get 2 tank variants.

That's tough to say. People have been calculating the various entries in our book to see how much more stuff we have/haven't seen.

Option 1: the 15 new entries and 7 new characters both include all the new units released for DG, even ones with an index entry. That'd mean we have 6ish brand new non character units, meaning at least two we haven't seen even assuming dual kit plagueburst crawler.

Option 2: the 15 new entries include all new DG stuff, but the 7 new characters meant new from time of index. In this case, we'd have seen all of the new non character units.

These two calculations result in a more or less correct total of 33 datasheets including index+new stuff+plaguebearers presumably, but also depends on carrying over the entire index without losing even the palanquin mounted units which is a bit unexpected.

Option 3: both mean new from the time of the index, in which case we are looking at 4-5 we haven't seen before.

This one results in us losing 4-5 models from the index, which is a bit confusing as it likely means we aren't losing all generic HQs, but merely some of them. Having terminator lord be merged with lord of contagion, both sorcerer variants merged with new models, and losing the palaquin mounted models might work. Replacing the original demon prince with the "new" DG demon prince might but keeping the old terminator lord or one of the sorcerers.

Option 4: the Facebook group just screwed up again. Which isn't entirely unheard for them. That'd make the 15 value totally pointless, and leave us back with 0-2 additional non character units we haven't seen, depending on whether or not we keep palanquin HQs.

As for plague havocs themselves, I consider them both likely and unlikely. Likely in that it'd be easy to just do a PM variant with fewer melee options and more ranged options, possibly even an extra heavy weapon or two. Unlikely in that normal PM already fill this role fairly well and I'm unsure they'd bother.

Perhaps, but its still a command point that could be used elsewhere. And it only lasts a turn, but yeah that would be a powerful combo

Pseudomonas wrote:

FudgeDumper wrote:
Yeah look at those nurglings. They are suffering , drewling messes as they should be, no happy circus clowns.

"Happy circus clowns" are basically what Nurglings are though.

Nurgle deamons, and anything Nurgle really, don't suffer from their afflictions, if anything they enjoy them. That's been one of the central themes of papa Nurgle for years.

If all you had to choose from was pest or cholera, you would sooner or later probably start favoring one over the other sincerely due to different circumstances. It does not make either choice any better. These creatures, mortal or daemon, has endured a lot, in the beginning the relief from their ailment maybe could be classified as happiness, but really, do you think so many would fear and actively attack and defend against happiness? Do you think anyone have ever freely joined the ranks of the rotting without first suffering from some sort of affliction?

Life is adaptable, with enough time you can adjust to extremely bad conditions, and in such a state even the most mundane form of relief will be received with a smile, and empty, deceiving smile fueled by misplaced appreciation.

I have read a lot about a local executioner that lived in the 17th century. Deidric the goader. He was probably an insane psychopath, all the better suited for his profession. He specialized in the gallows, interestingly enough most of his prisoners rarely died from the actual hanging. Unbeknownst to the king, he would visit each prisoner the day before their hanging and tell them, if you let me take a part of you, be it a finger, ear or an entire arm, your hanging will be postponed by one week. One week was a long time back in those days and most accepted, because what did they have to lose? Many died after the first amputation due to the primitive medical knowledge of the time, but some persisted, even many weeks.

You can read about this man if you are close to Svärsälv in Sweden, the local archivist has lots of old texts. The poor men who survived for many weeks, when Deidric came to ask them, they kissed his feet in adoration even though the suffering he led them through, just because what he offered was better then death.

I hope you see my point.

I am still trying to figure out how Death Guard are legitimately competitive. It's a tough balance and I appreciate that that GW is trying to get creative to bring some life into an army that has been pretty limp for many years.

On Facebook they said that the army is supposed to be viable and fun because it can move slowly and shoot, then get close and start proccing auras, then fight in melee, so it is active in all parts of the game.

Maybe, but the army is full of slow, expensive units that are not all that amazing in assault (especially without the mobility to readjust positioning in later turns or to reach melee quickly in the early turns), and are even more so-so in shooting. A Plague Marine with a blight launcher is decent shooting but is 34 points and 24" range on a guy that moves 5". Compare that to mortars, or dark reapers, or flyers, or snipers, etc. And then add in that so far, Death Guard seems to have much less access to improved points efficiency from rerolling to-hit and to-wound...

Seems like that DG are bad at mobility, shooting, and melee in exchange for being able to do a small amount of each + be durable. But with how points efficient and deadly the melee and especially the shooting of other armies can be, I don't think the durability is worth all that much as a trade-off.

I am really hoping there is some secret sauce in the new codex...points drops, really powerful aura combinations and psychic powers...just something to give all these slow, expensive units a lift. Really looking forward to seeing what the Tallyman does.

 Virules wrote:
I am still trying to figure out how Death Guard are legitimately competitive. It's a tough balance and I appreciate that that GW is trying to get creative to bring some life into an army that has been pretty limp for many years.

On Facebook they said that the army is supposed to be viable and fun because it can move slowly and shoot, then get close and start proccing auras, then fight in melee, so it is active in all parts of the game.

Maybe, but the army is full of slow, expensive units that are not all that amazing in assault (especially without the mobility to readjust positioning in later turns or to reach melee quickly in the early turns), and are even more so-so in shooting. A Plague Marine with a blight launcher is decent shooting but is 34 points and 24" range on a guy that moves 5". Compare that to mortars, or dark reapers, or flyers, or snipers, etc. And then add in that so far, Death Guard seems to have much less access to improved points efficiency from rerolling to-hit and to-wound...

Seems like that DG are bad at mobility, shooting, and melee in exchange for being able to do a small amount of each + be durable. But with how points efficient and deadly the melee and especially the shooting of other armies can be, I don't think the durability is worth all that much as a trade-off.

I am really hoping there is some secret sauce in the new codex...points drops, really powerful aura combinations and psychic powers...just something to give all these slow, expensive units a lift. Really looking forward to seeing what the Tallyman does.

They are slow but also are higher T and with FNP

i also dont recall them not being able to take rhinos (i might be wrong)

unless you are facing against ST5+ spam up the wazoo you would do better than most foot slogers.

Its going to be a tough sell though for more competitive-minded players. Losing access to stuff like Alpha Legion redeploy power, Kharybdis Assault Claw, etc... is not, in my opinion, made up for by +1 T (possibly), and Disgustingly Resilient. Its still a game where a shooting army could remove most of a foot-slogging opponent before it got to them... defensive buffs or not.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Its going to be a tough sell though for more competitive-minded players. Losing access to stuff like Alpha Legion redeploy power, Kharybdis Assault Claw, etc... is not, in my opinion, made up for by +1 T (possibly), and Disgustingly Resilient. Its still a game where a shooting army could remove most of a foot-slogging opponent before it got to them... defensive buffs or not.

Thankfully, the likely majority of players aren't WAAC tourney players, so this won't really factor in much. DG fans will get a viable army in a non-cheese setting with a lot of flavor. As a hobbyist, I am loving the models. Lots to look forward to.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Its going to be a tough sell though for more competitive-minded players. Losing access to stuff like Alpha Legion redeploy power, Kharybdis Assault Claw, etc... is not, in my opinion, made up for by +1 T (possibly), and Disgustingly Resilient. Its still a game where a shooting army could remove most of a foot-slogging opponent before it got to them... defensive buffs or not.

While they do care (as shown by them taking notes during NOVA and stating they need to make changes to smite, among other things) and WAAC players matter, that isn't their majority audience. So you are right, if there isn't some major good combo in the codex to make them a super tourney army, those players might not buy them, but their target audience is certainty going to be picking up the whole line.

I get the gut feeling DG armies will come to rely on Rhino rushing and Deep Strike a lot, especially with Mortarion's speed contrasting the rest of his army and those deadly melee-range auras.

 Desubot wrote:


They are slow but also are higher T and with FNP

i also dont recall them not being able to take rhinos (i might be wrong)

unless you are facing against ST5+ spam up the wazoo you would do better than most foot slogers.

You can certainly take Rhinos.

Qlanth wrote:

 Desubot wrote:


They are slow but also are higher T and with FNP

i also dont recall them not being able to take rhinos (i might be wrong)

unless you are facing against ST5+ spam up the wazoo you would do better than most foot slogers.

You can certainly take Rhinos.

Then basically no issue.

Also...perhaps there are people who don't care if it's "competitive" or if you guys think Mortarion is "garbage" etc. Perhaps, just perhaps it'll be a fun, thematic army with which to play toy soldiers?

 Elbows wrote:
Also...perhaps there are people who don't care if it's "competitive" or if you guys think Mortarion is "garbage" etc. Perhaps, just perhaps it'll be a fun, thematic army with which to play toy soldiers?

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day!

Qlanth wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Also...perhaps there are people who don't care if it's "competitive" or if you guys think Mortarion is "garbage" etc. Perhaps, just perhaps it'll be a fun, thematic army with which to play toy soldiers?

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read all day!

People that dont think competitively? How dare they!

I've been losing games of 40k for years now using my fluffy DG army. Maybe I'll be able to win the odd one now!

What is this 'friendly' game you speak of?

Well, no they clearly aren't competitive in a tournament as a stand alone army. They might have some units strong enough to feature as part of one, but that's honestly true of just about any army.

I'd be more worried how they perform in a more competitive casual setting, local tournaments at shops with maybe 10-20 players or even friendly games between more serious players. Because many armies have been strictly non viable in even those situations before.

In that regard, it doesn't look good still. Index DG were frankly an embarrassing display of balance failure. They weren't even viable casually they were so overcosted (technically I guess still are). Index PM are the most fascinating example. How on earth did they price them at 21 points initially? They are CSM troops except tougher, but were 60% more expensive despite not even being 50% more durable, and even if they had been you don't pay 50% more for a unit that's 50% more durable, barely more powerful offensive, and less mobile. It boggles my mind they could mess up something so basic.

As it stands, plague marines are now just a little overpriced compared to basic CSM squads (who aren't really worth using in the first place but that's a separate issue). That's probably the level of balance we should now expect for most of our units, since even our shared units will likely be getting new rules like DR or improved toughness and a corresponding price increase. GW seems really convinced a 50% increase in durability means, at minimum, a 40% increase in cost, and having to pay for that on every unit is going to hurt.

FudgeDumper wrote:
Do you think anyone have ever freely joined the ranks of the rotting without first suffering from some sort of affliction?

That's basically how Nurgle gains followers. He offers those suffering from sickness an end to suffering and his followers no longer feel the pain of their illness even as their bodies continue to decay and spread disease.

Qlanth wrote:

 Desubot wrote:


They are slow but also are higher T and with FNP

i also dont recall them not being able to take rhinos (i might be wrong)

unless you are facing against ST5+ spam up the wazoo you would do better than most foot slogers.

You can certainly take Rhinos.

And Land Raiders.

Or bubble wrap important units in 20-man Poxwalker units for 100 pts. a pop, supported by the auras and powers from all of our characters. You have 120 conscripts? I have 120 poxwalkers!

Pseudomonas wrote:

FudgeDumper wrote:
Do you think anyone have ever freely joined the ranks of the rotting without first suffering from some sort of affliction?

That's basically how Nurgle gains followers. He offers those suffering from sickness an end to suffering and his followers no longer feel the pain of their illness even as their bodies continue to decay and spread disease.

Yes, hence why i wrote anyone who isnt suffering from some kind of sickness.

Oh man that new art is so bad, way worse than the old black and white ones shown above. Those ones had, uh, soul or something that makes them better and... And new stuff sucks nostalgia could draw it better five years ago in my rose goggled sleep something something.

[/sarcasm]