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broxus wrote:
Anyone have a picture of the Blightlords data sheet and the Bloat drone data sheet? I am surprised it has not leaked yet.

Here you go, Blightlord scan is a bit blurry but it's the best I've seen thus far

SilverAlien wrote:

broxus wrote:
Anyone have a picture of the Blightlords data sheet and the Bloat drone data sheet? I am surprised it has not leaked yet.

Judging by the way every review avoided those pages I think GW may have actually told people not to show them. I have no idea why.

You damn well know why. We all know why. They want to avoid pre-purchase backlash for buggering over their existing playerbase by rendering Terminators moot and then trying to fall back on their keyword system as though it forgives them.

Ahhhh assumptions. Everyone made assumptions that X unit would make it into the list. It's not like GW didn't give you a massive hint when they were not in the Index.

How has no one really understood that GW is on a "Model for that unit" sthick? There have not been "Death Guard Terminators" produced by GW so there was none listed in the index and obviously would be none in the codex.

 Lysenis wrote:
Ahhhh assumptions. Everyone made assumptions that X unit would make it into the list. It's not like GW didn't give you a massive hint when they were not in the Index.

How has no one really understood that GW is on a "Model for that unit" sthick? There have not been "Death Guard Terminators" produced by GW so there was none listed in the index and obviously would be none in the codex.

Ah, this old chestnut.

'GW NEVER PRODUCED DEATH GUARD TERMINATORS!'

Well, they have never produced World Eaters Terminators either.

Or Assault Cannon Razorbacks.

It's not really an assumption to hope that a unit that has been available as an option since 2nd edition for a specific force would be available in 8th edition.

2nd ed Codex - Terminators with Mark of Nurgle become Plague Terminators.
3rd ed - Plague Terminators in Index Astartes.
3.5 Codex - Death Guard have Terminators listed in their restrictive list.
4th ed - Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle exist.
6th ed and Traitor Legions - Hey look, Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle and no exemption in Traitor Legions.

So here's an idea.

Pull the other one mate, it's got bells on it!

Plague Units are NOT deathguard***. The only unit you got a threadbare hold on is the FW Death guard Terminator Upgrade set.

I'm sorry you cant use your Old pre-8th edition Counts-as-deathguard-but-is-really-CSM-with-MoN Units as new army Deathguard units.

You can use *some* of you units, but not those.

Now. I'm NOT SAYING it doesnt suck. It does. but i *highly* doubt GW will Release rules allowing you to use your CSM stuff as deathguard.

Thats the end of it im afraid unless GW do something about it.

Are 40k Deathshroud units These Old Deathguard Termie's? Nope.

Are 40k Blightlord Termis the same Units in game as my Old edition Death guard termis?: Nope.

Are these Units still viable in 8th edition? whats there place?: In a CSM army they are still fully functioning terminator squads, with More wargear options and less special rules.

If i wisywig build These as Blightlords that cool?: Hell yes!


I really dont see the issue apart from "Oh. Some of my old units from a differant army cant be used with this new armys codex"...... *que screeching on dakka dakka*

*** All deathguard units in previous editions have been "chaos + mark of nurgle" with *maybe SOME* special rules added on top in 6th

Holy cow, are we really at the point where people are calling Death Guard armies made before 8th proxies and the equivalent of having a Squat army using IG rules?

Just... what.

I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:
Ahhhh assumptions. Everyone made assumptions that X unit would make it into the list. It's not like GW didn't give you a massive hint when they were not in the Index.

How has no one really understood that GW is on a "Model for that unit" sthick? There have not been "Death Guard Terminators" produced by GW so there was none listed in the index and obviously would be none in the codex.

Ah, this old chestnut.

'GW NEVER PRODUCED DEATH GUARD TERMINATORS!'

Well, they have never produced World Eaters Terminators either.

Or Assault Cannon Razorbacks.

It's not really an assumption to hope that a unit that has been available as an option since 2nd edition for a specific force would be available in 8th edition.

2nd ed Codex - Terminators with Mark of Nurgle become Plague Terminators.
3rd ed - Plague Terminators in Index Astartes.
3.5 Codex - Death Guard have Terminators listed in their restrictive list.
4th ed - Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle exist.
6th ed and Traitor Legions - Hey look, Terminators with the Mark of Nurgle and no exemption in Traitor Legions.

So here's an idea.

Pull the other one mate, it's got bells on it!

So, tell me. When were those ever "Death Guard" units?

Where those models usable in a Black Legion army? Alpha Legion?

What made you think once the Thousand Sons got their own special Terminators that the Death Guard wouldn't? Are those laid out the same as normal CSM Termies?

Welcome to a new age. Where new factions get things that make them different from the past.

 alextroy wrote:
I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"

Out of Production eh?

Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.

Just feel completely let down, having built my army along the Vectorium lines in January, pretty much everything is invalidated.

I bought Grave Wardens from FW as I loved the models, but for some reason (GEEDERPDERPDERP) death guard terminators have forgotten how to use power fists.

Might as well sell up. Really just don't feel any enthusiasm for the hobby right now. Thoroughly let down.

zerosignal wrote:
Just feel completely let down, having built my army along the Vectorium lines in January, pretty much everything is invalidated.

I bought Grave Wardens from FW as I loved the models, but for some reason (GEEDERPDERPDERP) death guard terminators have forgotten how to use power fists.

Might as well sell up. Really just don't feel any enthusiasm for the hobby right now. Thoroughly let down.

Is there any reason why you wouldn't reuse them for another legion? I think that many of us are in a similar boat with lots and lots of units which can't be used any more. I think many of us are going to spin these into opportunities to start new legions!

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Holy cow, are we really at the point where people are calling Death Guard armies made before 8th proxies and the equivalent of having a Squat army using IG rules?

Just... what.

Jesus No.

They existed. I had 3000pts of the bastards. Playing deathguard Pre-8th has just been CSM + Nurgle, which was fun, had its highs and lows. But it was mainly all in the name of your army list header & paint scheme. But lets not kid ourselves.

They're now a whole Army in there own right with there own codex (seriously, some of my dreams have been made of this...) Most of the Death guard Line is brand spanking new. Including two Terminator Squads unique to the Death Guard, one of wich fills the role of the Chaos Terminator squads from the other codex. If you had Old Nurgle Terminators and your NOT WILLING to re-model them (eg: convert) to fill the role and equip of the Blightlords and you still want them in your Death guard army. you can't. Im really sorry. There not a part of this armys (DG) roster. Go look in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Thats where you'll find where you can use them without converting your already owned models.

If you ARE willing to convert. Go nuts. there is literally nothing stopping you or I from hopping over to the FW website. grabbing a weapon set or two, making your old models ready for the new Dex' There's also nothing stopping you from Buying the conversion pack from FW, a terminator squad from GW and kitbashing a whole squad if you dont like the look of the blightlords.

My rather long point is: It sucks. Complain by all means. But dont become snide, snippy or short with someone when the responce is "Hey it sucks. But if you want X to be in your army but cant becuase of its loadout, convert it to Y and your golden. Or use it as Z and Just Buy Y."

 Lysenis wrote:

So, tell me. When were those ever "Death Guard" units?

Where those models usable in a Black Legion army? Alpha Legion?

What made you think once the Thousand Sons got their own special Terminators that the Death Guard wouldn't? Are those laid out the same as normal CSM Termies?

Welcome to a new age. Where new factions get things that make them different from the past.

Would you like the Index Astartes article?



Or the 3.5 Codex?





Because hey, look. 'Playing a Death Guard army' and 'Using A Death Guard army' appear there.

Implying those are Death Guard units.

Or are you still fishing? You also appear to forget and have conveniently ignored that no one had an issue with the Rubric Terminators being fixed armament and all - they always were in the IA article and the 3.5 book onward. A lot of Thousand Sons armies cropped up around that time and accounted for it. The main issue was the fact that they were forced into Power Swords in a range that has had exactly two Terminator power sword arms from Rogue Trader onwards...and one of them isn't even on the right side for a normal Terminator.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sharazad87 wrote:
But dont become snide, snippy or short with someone

Physician, heal thyself.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"

Out of Production eh?

Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.

And? FW Produced one becuase it was an option, a popular option without an official kit. the exact same for the death guard termis upgrade set.

May i ask you a couple of questions? Do you own any of said terminators? Are you willing to convert them to blightlords? if your specfic answer is no youve got some nice shelf fillers or some Ok CSM Terminators

Edit: Just saw your mini quote, Am i? If so i apologise, to be quite honest with you im just trying to be logical with the information i have at hand.

I'm sorry that a lot of people are angry about the Blight Lord options. But, wouldn't it have been extremely boring if they were exactly the same as CSM Terminators but with a DR roll?

Making them into their own, unique unit with their own, unique weapons options is going to set them apart from regular CSM. A more diverse game with more diverse rules is infinitely more interesting that just seeing the same units with the same rules in different color schemes.

Sharazad87 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"

Out of Production eh?

Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.

And? FW Produced one becuase it was an option, a popular option without an official kit. the exact same for the death guard termis upgrade set.

And yet it still exists as an option in the SM Codex.

Pretty much taking the whole 'Oh, but GW don't produce models for X so they won't be in the codex' theory and showing that to be a load of apologist gak. Or are you somehow going to try and backpedal here?

May i ask you a couple of questions? Do you own any of said terminators? Are you willing to convert them to blightlords? if your specfic answer is no youve got some nice shelf fillers or some Ok CSM Terminators

No less than 15 of them and they've won awards for how they are modelled. As part of a Death Guard army. If you are asking if I'm willing to destroy already converted miniatures to fill an arbitrary role then you seriously don't belong in this hobby. Mind you, from your history? You're either someone's alt account or very, very new and apparently White Knighting your hardest to justify this whole sorry affair.

Just saw your mini quote, Am i? If so i apologise, to be quite honest with you im just trying to be logical with the information i have at hand.

That's why you had to edit a post before it got a mod strike, hmm? You're not really being logical. You are White Knighting so hard that I'm rather concerned you're going to pop a hernia from the effort.

Jeez DarkStarSabre, there is really no need to be this hostile and make so many wild accusations against people. You're being exceptionally condescending.

Just letting them have the normal HTH weapons (Power Fist, Chain Fist, Lightning Claws, Power Mace) would'a been fine. Solved the whole damned problem.

I mean they can get the usual Combi-Weapons, Reapers and a new "Plague" Heavy Flamer, so why not the others?



But then there's the whole problem of Death Guard Lords, Sorcerers and Possessed just being the regular units. Nothing about them is "Nurgle". It makes zero sense. That's an even bigger problem than invalidated units of Terminators (like my Hvy Flamer/Lightning Claw guys, or my Lord w/Lightning Claws, or any of them with Fists/Chainfists).

Qlanth wrote:
I'm sorry that a lot of people are angry about the Blight Lord options. But, wouldn't it have been extremely boring if they were exactly the same as CSM Terminators but with a DR roll?

Making them into their own, unique unit with their own, unique weapons options is going to set them apart from regular CSM. A more diverse game with more diverse rules is infinitely more interesting that just seeing the same units with the same rules in different color schemes.

This is exactly why Deathwing Terminators don't have access to Power Fists, Chainfists, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers or any other options that normal SM Terminators have access to.

Wait. They do. Plus some.

Well, what about Blood Angels Terminators? Oh, they do too.

Space Wolf Terminators? Oh....a whole bucketload of extra options....

Tell me again how reducing options makes a unit 'more diverse and interesting.'

The argument of 'Well, they don't want the codex to be X++' is a fallacy because pure Death Guard armies ALREADY have restrictions through the mark system and already had restrictions in the past concerning heavy weapons, bikes and jump units.

Restricting them even more in terms of options...isn't diversifying squat. It's also a slap in the face for anyone who prefers the 30k aesthetic or had an existing army. Sure, some options were going to be lost....

But Power Fists? Really? A staple Chaos Terminator weapon since Rogue Trader now just..disappears?

All the Daemon Engines being lost just makes 6th and 7th really bitter tasting as they literally became the buy X daemon engine to not be completely sub-par during that time. Stripping those away? Very little sense there.

'Oh, but we're getting new unique units.'

And yet every other 'sub faction' hasn't been culled this badly. Not even Thousand Sons.

We've been culled harder than the army that literally CANNOT CHANGE including some staples - Terminators and Chosen.

P.S. They did produce a kit for Death Guard Havocs. So that 'OH BUT THEY NEVER PRODUCED MODELS' argument is once again proven false.

Oh yeah, my DG Havocs.

Forgot about them...

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Sharazad87 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I think it is more a "why are you surprised your out of production Forge World Chaos Space Marine kit does not have rules in a new faction codex?"

Out of Production eh?

Ya'll really are trying and I've not seen one of you try to actually justify Assault Cannon Razorbacks which have never had a kit outside of FW.

And? FW Produced one becuase it was an option, a popular option without an official kit. the exact same for the death guard termis upgrade set.

And yet it still exists as an option in the SM Codex.

Pretty much taking the whole 'Oh, but GW don't produce models for X so they won't be in the codex' theory and showing that to be a load of apologist gak. Or are you somehow going to try and backpedal here?

May i ask you a couple of questions? Do you own any of said terminators? Are you willing to convert them to blightlords? if your specfic answer is no youve got some nice shelf fillers or some Ok CSM Terminators

No less than 15 of them and they've won awards for how they are modelled. As part of a Death Guard army. If you are asking if I'm willing to destroy already converted miniatures to fill an arbitrary role then you seriously don't belong in this hobby. Mind you, from your history? You're either someone's alt account or very, very new and apparently White Knighting your hardest to justify this whole sorry affair.

Just saw your mini quote, Am i? If so i apologise, to be quite honest with you im just trying to be logical with the information i have at hand.

That's why you had to edit a post before it got a mod strike, hmm? You're not really being logical. You are White Knighting so hard that I'm rather concerned you're going to pop a hernia from the effort.

Erm. Way to take it down the personal route. I'm 30, been gaming with 40k since I was 15. I check my posts for major errors and to make sure I'm getting the point i want to make across. I am however new ish to dakka, but not the net nor forums. I have never received nor Fear receiving a warning from the mods, would i listen to one. Yes.

You dont want to Take a tool to your "Award winning" models. Cool. I get that. You're salty becuase with the release of the Death guard Codex You cannot use them in a death guard army "as-is", You have the OPTION to use them a MoN Terminators in a CSM force. But you dont want to. Also cool. Your only option if you want to have Terminators in your death guard army is to buy the new packs.

Do i feel sorry for you for being in this situation: Yes.

Am i "white knighting" no, not that i can see. Could i have worded things better. Probably.

Anyhoo. this has gone off the rails quite long enough. if you want to continue this conversation, please feel free to Pm me if you feel the need to, id happily talk it out with you.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just letting them have the normal HTH weapons (Power Fist, Chain Fist, Lightning Claws, Power Mace) would'a been fine. Solved the whole damned problem.

I mean they can get the usual Combi-Weapons, Reapers and a new "Plague" Heavy Flamer, so why not the others?



But then there's the whole problem of Death Guard Lords, Sorcerers and Possessed just being the regular units. Nothing about them is "Nurgle". It makes zero sense. That's an even bigger problem than invalidated units of Terminators (like my Hvy Flamer/Lightning Claw guys, or my Lord w/Lightning Claws, or any of them with Fists/Chainfists).

This right here.

Sir, you make so much sense it hurts.

The generic units (Lords, Sorcerers, Possessed) is really questionable, especially when you consider that said units are meant to be exemplars within the Legion. To be inherently weaker than baseline troops is....well...quite frankly terrible.

'Oh, but just having the plague marines rules would be very dull.'

Well....those rules are sort of the appeal of the Death Guard army. They give the units resilience. Resilience is kind of their thing. You're a small elite army that can weather an insane amount of damage but are insanely vulnerable to hordes or elite multiple attack assault units.

If you felt that applying rules that embodied the Legion's whole schtick makes it...dull...well, perhaps this isn't the army for you.

I mean, dull is kind of what it is. That's the point. Death Guard were never shiny spangly top hat wearing jazz hand making ponces. Those are Emperor's Children. Death Guard are sombre, resilient and monotonous in their nature. A hard rock. Not pretty, not elegant, just very proficient at what they do - surviving.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
I'm sorry that a lot of people are angry about the Blight Lord options. But, wouldn't it have been extremely boring if they were exactly the same as CSM Terminators but with a DR roll?

Making them into their own, unique unit with their own, unique weapons options is going to set them apart from regular CSM. A more diverse game with more diverse rules is infinitely more interesting that just seeing the same units with the same rules in different color schemes.

This is exactly why Deathwing Terminators don't have access to Power Fists, Chainfists, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers or any other options that normal SM Terminators have access to.

Wait. They do. Plus some.

Well, what about Blood Angels Terminators? Oh, they do too.

Space Wolf Terminators? Oh....a whole bucketload of extra options....

Tell me again how reducing options makes a unit 'more diverse and interesting.'

The argument of 'Well, they don't want the codex to be X++' is a fallacy because pure Death Guard armies ALREADY have restrictions through the mark system and already had restrictions in the past concerning heavy weapons, bikes and jump units.

Restricting them even more in terms of options...isn't diversifying squat. It's also a slap in the face for anyone who prefers the 30k aesthetic or had an existing army. Sure, some options were going to be lost....

But Power Fists? Really? A staple Chaos Terminator weapon since Rogue Trader now just..disappears?

All the Daemon Engines being lost just makes 6th and 7th really bitter tasting as they literally became the buy X daemon engine to not be completely sub-par during that time. Stripping those away? Very little sense there.

'Oh, but we're getting new unique units.'

And yet every other 'sub faction' hasn't been culled this badly. Not even Thousand Sons.

We've been culled harder than the army that literally CANNOT CHANGE including some staples - Terminators and Chosen.

P.S. They did produce a kit for Death Guard Havocs. So that 'OH BUT THEY NEVER PRODUCED MODELS' argument is once again proven false.

There is nothing wrong with reducing some options if we are getting newer, more interesting ones. They are adding all kinds of new options that have never been available before. Clevers and Baleswords and gigantic Flails. And there are more than that available as well.

And in response to your first few examples, I would say that yes it does make those units in those armies extremely boring. Having Space Wolf terminaotrs who kit out the exact same as Blood ANgel terminators and Salamander Terminators is boring. But, something like a Wulfen? With it's extremely unique model and rules and weapon options which aren't available anywhere else? That is interesting and makes playing against a space wolf player decidedly different than playing against any other marine player.

Now, DG players will have these new, unique options as well which set us distinctly apart from the rest of the CSM line.

I understand why people are disappointed, but this kind of thing makes the game more diverse and more interesting to play.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
I mean, dull is kind of what it is. That's the point. Death Guard were never shiny spangly top hat wearing jazz hand making ponces. Those are Emperor's Children. Death Guard are sombre, resilient and monotonous in their nature. A hard rock. Not pretty, not elegant, just very proficient at what they do - surviving.

I want my Death Guard army to embody what it means to be a Chaos Space Marine Legion dedicated to the Chaos God of Decay, with all the boons and burdens that come with such devotion.

Except for my Lords, and my Sorcerers, and my Possessed. Them I want to be the same as they are in the regular Marine Codex. Don't want to get too wild after all.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Lysenis wrote:

So, tell me. When were those ever "Death Guard" units?

Where those models usable in a Black Legion army? Alpha Legion?

What made you think once the Thousand Sons got their own special Terminators that the Death Guard wouldn't? Are those laid out the same as normal CSM Termies?

Welcome to a new age. Where new factions get things that make them different from the past.

Would you like the Index Astartes article?

Spoiler:

Or the 3.5 Codex?

Because hey, look. 'Playing a Death Guard army' and 'Using A Death Guard army' appear there.

Implying those are Death Guard units.

Or are you still fishing? You also appear to forget and have conveniently ignored that no one had an issue with the Rubric Terminators being fixed armament and all - they always were in the IA article and the 3.5 book onward. A lot of Thousand Sons armies cropped up around that time and accounted for it. The main issue was the fact that they were forced into Power Swords in a range that has had exactly two Terminator power sword arms from Rogue Trader onwards...and one of them isn't even on the right side for a normal Terminator.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sharazad87 wrote:
But dont become snide, snippy or short with someone

Physician, heal thyself.

You mean when GW didn't have the ability to create a new codex with new models for that codex. When they had to make due with multi purpose kits so that they could have miniatures available.

You get why GW prices are the way they have been right? The new CEO took that and funneled it into R&D. Now they have more plastic models, can have BIGGER plastic models (where they needed FW resin for that mainly in the past) and can afford to make a new codex with 10+ new units with different bases.

No longer are the days when they need to use the same tank chassis for 4+ models. Now they can actually have variety abound.

Complain on how it hurts your hobby as you will but in the end, this is far better for us than anything. Now we can have actual Death Guard models that are unique and not just a parroted version of the CSM codex.

Hell, this means we could see add on to normal marine legions to diversify the Primaris

Qlanth wrote:

There is nothing wrong with reducing some options if we are getting newer, more interesting ones. They are adding all kinds of new options that have never been available before. Clevers and Baleswords and gigantic Flails. And there are more than that available as well.

The Flail is the only new thing. The swords and axes are just 'Plague' power swords and axes. And oh, hey, look once again to the listed examples and see how they too have some unique options they can take as well as older pre-existing ones that don't completely invalidate armies that have been around 6 editions.

And in response to your first few examples, I would say that yes it does make those units in those armies extremely boring. Having Space Wolf terminaotrs who kit out the exact same as Blood ANgel terminators and Salamander Terminators is boring. But, something like a Wulfen? With it's extremely unique model and rules and weapon options which aren't available anywhere else? That is interesting and makes playing against a space wolf player decidedly different than playing against any other marine player.

And the catch is that the Blood Angel, SW and DA players didn't have units completely invalidated and written off, to be constantly fobbed off with 'DURR HURR FIELD THEM AS GENERIC TERMINATORS WITH X' because the generic armaments were still viable. Perhaps you missed that. I've not got generic Nurgle Terminators. I've got Death Guard Terminators. They have been painted in the same scheme as the rest of their Legion. They match their Legion in aesthetic, from the pustules, the tones of green, the basing and the weathered weaponry.

Now, DG players will have these new, unique options as well which set us distinctly apart from the rest of the CSM line.

Because Less is More, right? Because differences in abilities, stats etc are factored in through points (wait, they are) so clearly you gotta gut even more out to be diverse, right?

I understand why people are disappointed, but this kind of thing makes the game more diverse and more interesting to play.

You do realise you are hardline stating that reducing options is making something more diverse, right? Giving less choice makes things less diverse. If there is no choice between A, B and C then really, it's not diverse at all.

Thats 4 codex release threads that ave all included some drama queen stating "its time to sell up".

Full line-up of faction specific infantry, tanks and a Primarch which vanilla CSM dont have access to and yet people whining because of what? that you'd loose a tiny bit of functionality by running a faction keyword- chaos army instead of DG in which you could use your havocs and terminators.

GW cant win against people who enjoy whinging about the hobby more than doing it.

I'm glad I ran out of money when I did because I was gonna convert some WE havocs: I was gonna model them as Berzerkers running round with a Chainsword in one hand and hip firing a Lascannon/Heavy Bolter with the other. But now I've seen this it has come to my attention that there probably won't be any Havocs in the WE codex (when it finally comes out).

Trying to rack my brain to think of any other units I've done/was thinking of doing that won't be in the WE codex.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
I'm sorry that a lot of people are angry about the Blight Lord options. But, wouldn't it have been extremely boring if they were exactly the same as CSM Terminators but with a DR roll?

Making them into their own, unique unit with their own, unique weapons options is going to set them apart from regular CSM. A more diverse game with more diverse rules is infinitely more interesting that just seeing the same units with the same rules in different color schemes.

This is exactly why Deathwing Terminators don't have access to Power Fists, Chainfists, Lightning Claws, Thunder Hammers or any other options that normal SM Terminators have access to.

Wait. They do. Plus some.

Well, what about Blood Angels Terminators? Oh, they do too.

Space Wolf Terminators? Oh....a whole bucketload of extra options....

Tell me again how reducing options makes a unit 'more diverse and interesting.'

The argument of 'Well, they don't want the codex to be X++' is a fallacy because pure Death Guard armies ALREADY have restrictions through the mark system and already had restrictions in the past concerning heavy weapons, bikes and jump units.

Restricting them even more in terms of options...isn't diversifying squat. It's also a slap in the face for anyone who prefers the 30k aesthetic or had an existing army. Sure, some options were going to be lost....

But Power Fists? Really? A staple Chaos Terminator weapon since Rogue Trader now just..disappears?

All the Daemon Engines being lost just makes 6th and 7th really bitter tasting as they literally became the buy X daemon engine to not be completely sub-par during that time. Stripping those away? Very little sense there.

'Oh, but we're getting new unique units.'

And yet every other 'sub faction' hasn't been culled this badly. Not even Thousand Sons.

We've been culled harder than the army that literally CANNOT CHANGE including some staples - Terminators and Chosen.

P.S. They did produce a kit for Death Guard Havocs. So that 'OH BUT THEY NEVER PRODUCED MODELS' argument is once again proven false.

OH NO! Planets with STC's have access to the same things others do! I guess a Plague Planet in the middle of the Warp, controlled and evolved by Papa Nurgle should be afforded the same benefits as the Imperium, you know, because Chaos has Storm Shields, Thunder Hammers, and all those things. It's not like their fluff has them in cobbled together armor and scrambling to steal replacements.

Are they still making "Death Guard Havocs"?

 Lysenis wrote:


You mean when GW didn't have the ability to create a new codex with new models for that codex. When they had to make due with multi purpose kits so that they could have miniatures available.

You get why GW prices are the way they have been right? The new CEO took that and funneled it into R&D. Now they have more plastic models, can have BIGGER plastic models (where they needed FW resin for that mainly in the past) and can afford to make a new codex with 10+ new units with different bases.

No longer are the days when they need to use the same tank chassis for 4+ models. Now they can actually have variety abound.

Complain on how it hurts your hobby as you will but in the end, this is far better for us than anything. Now we can have actual Death Guard models that are unique and not just a parroted version of the CSM codex.

Hell, this means we could see add on to normal marine legions to diversify the Primaris

Do you want to count the amount of Rhino and Land Raider variants that use the same base chassis? Do you want to realise that 2 of these came in as recently as 6th edition? Or perhaps you want to count the amount of Eldar vehicles using a Falcon hull as a base? Or DE vehicles using a Raider hull as a base?

You realise why they do that right? It's about an aesthetic. About maintaining a constant, consistent appearance and even the newer stuff being sculpted is still using these older elements, often as a base for the same reasons.

And Death Guard models that are unique and not just parroted versions? Did you miss the Helbrute, Lord, Sorcerer and Possessed? Which could have EASILY had their profiles rolled into existing counterparts to add some...actual variety? Do you honestly think that half our units aren't literally just Plague versions of existing CSM units?

So unique. Much variety, wow.