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Are those different options I see on those sprues?
The figs have more detail on them they I have ever thought possible. Absolutely amazing!
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
I'm not going to re-read the lunacy that is the last few pages of this thread, but I'd be very surprised if anyone actually said that. Even that one guy banging on about how relatively difficult it might be for an Inquisitor to acquire power armour, I don't think even that guy said that.
It might be worth it to buy blightlords but then magnetize the deathshroud arms for them too. That way you get lots of body and pose options, but you can still have the manreapers.
Sisters and Wolves 4000
~4000 points of Skaven
~2000 Kaptain Gitklaw's Grots
~2400 Kharadron Overlords
4x Imperial Knights
mmzero252 wrote: It might be worth it to buy blightlords but then magnetize the deathshroud arms for them too. That way you get lots of body and pose options, but you can still have the manreapers.
I dream of kitbashing the fly terminator with this kit. He'd look super cute with the cape and everything I bet.
the pricetag on those boys steps over the line of "too bloody much", in my opinion...yes, I understand that generally people will only want 3-6 of those models in their army, so sales will be limited, but jeezuz...AU$98...think I'm gonna have to convert my own (or, I could just buy a box of 5 deathshroud from forgeworld, for cheaper! - GW, you hurt my brain.)
morty being more expensive than magnus, despite being smaller and with fewer options, was one thing...I let that slide because, well, it's morty, and I just couldn't not have that model...these are just some tarted up terminators with scythes, and they're pretty much just ablative wounds for morty/other characters...sod that.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 07:00:03
So, tell me. When were those ever "Death Guard" units?
Where those models usable in a Black Legion army? Alpha Legion?
What made you think once the Thousand Sons got their own special Terminators that the Death Guard wouldn't? Are those laid out the same as normal CSM Termies?
Welcome to a new age. Where new factions get things that make them different from the past.
Would you like the Index Astartes article?
Or the 3.5 Codex?
Because hey, look. 'Playing a Death Guard army' and 'Using A Death Guard army' appear there.
Implying those are Death Guard units.
Or are you still fishing? You also appear to forget and have conveniently ignored that no one had an issue with the Rubric Terminators being fixed armament and all - they always were in the IA article and the 3.5 book onward. A lot of Thousand Sons armies cropped up around that time and accounted for it. The main issue was the fact that they were forced into Power Swords in a range that has had exactly two Terminator power sword arms from Rogue Trader onwards...and one of them isn't even on the right side for a normal Terminator.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sharazad87 wrote: But dont become snide, snippy or short with someone
Physician, heal thyself.
Ironically enough you just nailed the coffin shut on people clamoring for bikes and raptors with those images.
Exactly, and it is interesting (and the pics definitely prove it) how close the new book is to the 3rd edition DG lists and how they expanded the army concept from there with adding stuff from 30k plus new fitting elements like the Hauler, Crawler and the new character classes. I am very satisfied with this release and will expand the models I have from previous editions into my first 8th ed army project, splitting them between CSM and DG detachments where/if neccessary.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 07:02:36
Ironically enough you just nailed the coffin shut on people clamoring for bikes and raptors with those images.
To be fair, anyone who played Death Guard before 6th and GW's constant bouncing around about bike toughness values and whether they stacked or not pretty much didn't field those units. The Raptor (Destroyer) development is more recent and comes from 30k fluff. And to be frank, I don't mind the loss of a single unit of Raptors personally. I never spammed those or bikes because they never fit the army's theme. Hell, the Legion trait they are getting encourages infantry even more - no penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons, increased range on rapid fire weapons? Definately pushing for the infantry footslog and even though everyone and their dog loves blight launchers this trait really pushes more towards Plasma....and possibly even Meltaguns for being able to run and fire without penalty.
ShadowSwordmaster, on 16 Sept 2017 - 03:33 AM, said:
Marshal Loss, on 16 Sept 2017 - 03:30 AM, said:
Got my hands on the limited edition - far too expensive, but I'm really pleased with it. Feels far better designed than the others I've purchased, really meaty. Nice little touch having the symbol on the cardboard box it comes in.
Read most of the fluff already and I have to say, I'm really impressed. They've done a great job. Some really, really cool bits that I'd love to see expanded upon. This release is impressive beyond my wildest expectations, and as a DG fan I sincerely hope other Traitor Legions (and sub-factions of other races too, not just marines) get this kind of detail. Hopefully it shows GW that if they invest time and money in renewing (or creating) a range, it is going to convince even cynics like me to part with their cash.
I think all of the info is out there now, but in case there are any questions ask away
What is going on with Typhus and the other Death Guard captains?
Typhus is still formally the First Captain of the Death Guard. He and Mortarion have basically reached an arrangement where Typhus does his own thing (they still hate each other) but joins the Death Guard for major campaigns. Mortarion, in a rare moment of patience, allowed him to ragequit the plague planet, because he did not want to repeat the mistakes of his own father. In the timeline, he essentially does his own thing all the time, often at the head of a coalition of other traitor forces (allied warbands of the Purge and the Cleaved for example).
At one point, he duels and humbles (their words) Huron Blackheart, only leaving him alive to show him that Nurgle is both 1) the best and 2) a generally swell guy.
There are other high-ranking captains named and some pop up throughout the book, but none are really expanded upon much other than little nuggets in the timeline. One company is actually ruled over by a gestalt daemon named the 'Eater of Lives' (Grulgor from the HH), which is a really nice touch. Various Vectoriums get some attention showing their specialties, and even Mortarion's defeat at the hands of Draigo is written in a more appropriate fashion (no mention of the heart).
In terms of their organisation, they avoid saying that the Death Guard are flat out the 'only organised Traitor Legion,' so there is definitely room for them to bring back others (WB, IW etc) with significant cohesion also. In the current timeline, Mortarion has only recently duelled and defeated Perturabo and his Iron Warriors Legion.
The duel is (like all Primarch duels basically) a standstill and goes for seven hours, but the Death Guard's resilience and plagues grind down the Iron Warriors, destroying masses of vehicles to the point that Perturabo is forced to call a retreat under the cover of a bunch of detonating trenches. Both sides take massive casualties, it's fought over some the heathen 'Temple of Ascension'. It's very recent in the timeline too, sounds cool, would like a DG vs Iron Warriors novel (nudge nudge Black Library) based around this.
So yeah it's not like Morty smacks down Perturabo, but despite his losses it's a pretty emphatic victory for the DG in a really large-scale conflict against a powerful foe, so I'd chalk it up as a meaningful victory. We know from experience that Perturabo is not exactly fond of calling retreats when he really wants something.
Another cool nugget: Mortarion and his Deathshroud hold the breach in a wall against an entire Legion of Necrons (anybody know how many this is? it sounds impressive), and by the time his Legion frantically rush to save him, Mortarion and his boys are standing surrounded by an entire dead Legion of Necrons. Heh.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 08:09:56
Heh, that blurb fits nicely with my army having two parts, one of them being a warband of Plague Marines made up mostly of corrupted and headhunted Iron Warriors under the rule of an exiled/fallen from grace former Deatshroud. From the way rivalry is described between CSM (e.g
Ruven leaving the Night Lords for daddy Abbaddon) and the favour of the gods works Nurgle is mighty pleased about the corruption of some more agnostic Marines, while the IWs will do everything to kill the traitors and punish the champion who stole from them. Like crashing a fortress asteroid into the middle of an invasion of an Imperial argar world, turning the final assault on the capital into a three parties standoff.
It also allows me to build and paint some Plague Marines more WW1 like and even explains why the bikers are just MoN bikers.
But WTF at those Deathshroud sprues. They look sad. Like the miniature equivalent of a struggle sandwich. One guy has belly plate options. Wow. That from a company that crammed who knows how many bits on hundreds of sprues recently and now totally flub a 45 Euro box that builds three dudes that should be unique as could be
Looking for a Skaven Doomwheel banner to repair my Nurgle knights.
We have not seen the sprues of the Blightlord Terminators and I could be wrong but based on the different builds in the photos so far they will come with a variety of bits.
With the Blightlords we should get a multipart Terminator kit for DG. I think another one would have been too much investment-wise. I'm sure, even with inhouse production, GW has to look at the financial side of producing these kits, especially long-term, and I think this is where they saw compromises to be made. Deathshrouds are larger, bulkier models. We are now getting two Terminator units and kits, one comes without many extra bits. But I think conversions using Blightlord parts shouldn't be a problem.
Personally I am okay with the variety in the Deathshroud kit but surely won't buy these early on because of my limited hobby budget and I have enough Chaos Terminator models to proxy while playtesting and working on lists. I like the new Deathshroud models though, and will grab a box or two later in the project. Bits-wise they are not more limited than FW kits and come in an easier to work with material. I saw them today for 33 EUR with discount.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 11:03:04
Marshal Loss wrote: I'll be impressed/thrilled if it's more than one combi-plasma per box!
Blue stuff is your friend, mate.
Just got some and havent found it to br that amazing. What do you use to replicate the parts?
Blightlords look amazing and crazy characterful, fly guy is awesome and genuinely cant wait to see the sprues, slightly disappointed it wasnt this weerks pre order
I'm not going to re-read the lunacy that is the last few pages of this thread, but I'd be very surprised if anyone actually said that. Even that one guy banging on about how relatively difficult it might be for an Inquisitor to acquire power armour, I don't think even that guy said that.
I have to say I'm not surprised at all by the Deathfellas...I do think you're going to see far more mono-pose + random heads or weapons in the future. I think this is the route GW is going to go with a lot of stuff moving forward.
I´m using the yellow-grey Miliput for most of my casts. For finer casts I add GS (60:40, Put:GS), as the user Yodhrin gave me this tip. But he prefers Magic Sculp/Apoxie Sculpt instead of Miliput for not copying bits.
But I recommend to get your casts out of the forms in the first 24h, while they are still flexible, to avoid breaking small parts. Also use some wire or other stuff to give your cast stability, if possible.
I also think, that they release first the weaker models of the range, so some hype buyers get them too (hence the plague brethren). I will wait till everything is on the table and than decide, what I will get. I get a feeling, that the regular PM will be with the last release.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 14:20:25
Elbows wrote: I have to say I'm not surprised at all by the Deathfellas...I do think you're going to see far more mono-pose + random heads or weapons in the future. I think this is the route GW is going to go with a lot of stuff moving forward.
Thank Nurgle the FW Deathshroud come with 2 more for only £14 more and are multipart and compatible with the FW Death Guard Terminator conversion kit.
Elbows wrote: I have to say I'm not surprised at all by the Deathfellas...I do think you're going to see far more mono-pose + random heads or weapons in the future. I think this is the route GW is going to go with a lot of stuff moving forward.
Thank Nurgle the FW Deathshroud come with 2 more for only £14 more and are multipart and compatible with the FW Death Guard Terminator conversion kit.
I've played Death Guard since 4th edition, in which time I've built, heavily converted and painted 4 different iterations of my Death Guard army. I've played with gak rules for several editions, and sat out playing whole editions due to terrible rules like 7th had.
I have multiple units that I spent months converting, painting and had yet to even see the tabletop before being removed and options in the new codex.
And you know what? I don't really care. We have an actual codex now and the army is unique from other CSM armies. It seems like some people don't really want Death Guard, they want Nurgle marines with high toughness and all the options the CSM codex has. Great! Go play a Nurgle CSM army with all those options and take a detachment from the DG codex for the new units you like.
It was 100% clear this is what was happening when the Chaos Index was released. It's also exactly how GW has been reshaping factions in AOS, and making them better for it, IMO.
People keep throwing around that things have been invalidated. No, they are still usable. In fact, short of potentially losing out on some bonus command points and Death Guard army bonuses, there is literally nothing stopping you from playing your exact army as is.
You can never beat your first time. The second generation is shinier, stronger, faster and superior in every regard save one, and it's an unfair criticism to level, but it simply can't be as original. - Andy Chambers, on the evolution of Games Workshop games
If people are making forms of their bits, something I'd never do and especially not to an extent that I'd be very good at it, they might want to know that instead of the expensive hobby stuff there are two component silicone formulas mixed 1:1 that settle in a short time (some people like the one that takes six minutes) that cost around 50€ for 2 litres from a specialised retailer and make excellent forms. Those people might also want to know that some Kinderknete that's on the softer side and not sticky and lego blocks are your friends. I've also heard that Miliput and Grey Stuff (doesn't shrink, which Green Stuff does) im 1:1 to 4:1 mixes with some WD40 in the Miliput and to lubricate the forms works nicely depending on what you want to copy. If I did this I'd also advise to take the parts out of the forms before they're fully cured, that way you might be able to simply rip off "flash" and the little balls that appear when there are tiny air bubbles in the forms, which mostly happens when copying small holes, e.g. chainmail or Nurgle boils. The flash should come off easily while the model parts stay without getting torn off, which, if I did this, would assume to come from the mould edges creating sort of predetermined breaking points in the excess putty.
Done right you can copy stuff like DKoK troopers and the tiny Ordo Hospitaller...I heard. At least the bodies.
Which is totally not what I'd do with Death Guard kits. No sir. But the Deathshroud are still boooring. Too bad.
Looking for a Skaven Doomwheel banner to repair my Nurgle knights.
And you know what? I don't really care. We have an actual codex now and the army is unique from other CSM armies. It seems like some people don't really want Death Guard, they want Nurgle marines with high toughness and all the options the CSM codex has.
Ah, this old chestnut.
You know what Death Guard are? Nurgle Marines with high Toughness and the options the CSM Codex has.
Even our wonderful new 'unique' units...aren't that unique.
Lord of Contagions are straight up Chaos Lords.
Plaguecasters are Sorcerers.
Poxwalkers are fancy Cultists.
Blightlord Terminators are Chaos Terminators with less options and plague weapons.
We really aren't that unique at all. They added what...a bodyguard unit and a bundle of characters? Great. At the cost of telling 6 editions worth of players to take a walk.
You were playing in 4th - we talking with the 3.5 Codex? Or with the horrible CSM Codex that basically boiled down to Winged Slaanesh Lash Sorcerers and Vindicators?
Because I've been in this since the tail end of 2nd mate. And my overall opinion of our book?
Not that great.
The book is thin - about half to two-thirds the size of the CSM book which is the same price point.
A lot of our units are really nothing more than fancy versions of other generic units...some of which are ALSO in the book, to rub some salt in the wound.
We have options without points or just straight up missing points for them.
And we've had very substantial parts of our army culled with no real reason. Especially when you consider that our Terminators have the SAME Power Level as CSM Terminators....uh...what?
As fancy as your speech was mate, trying to lecture us was pretty moot. The Index was a shoddy job and we all know it. It was literally someone looking at the shelves and going 'Uh, the army has X, Y and Z painted up in it. Guess that's what they have.'
And you know what? I don't really care. We have an actual codex now and the army is unique from other CSM armies. It seems like some people don't really want Death Guard, they want Nurgle marines with high toughness and all the options the CSM codex has.
Ah, this old chestnut.
You know what Death Guard are? Nurgle Marines with high Toughness and the options the CSM Codex has.
Even our wonderful new 'unique' units...aren't that unique.
Lord of Contagions are straight up Chaos Lords.
Plaguecasters are Sorcerers.
Poxwalkers are fancy Cultists.
Blightlord Terminators are Chaos Terminators with less options and plague weapons.
We really aren't that unique at all. They added what...a bodyguard unit and a bundle of characters? Great. At the cost of telling 6 editions worth of players to take a walk.
You were playing in 4th - we talking with the 3.5 Codex? Or with the horrible CSM Codex that basically boiled down to Winged Slaanesh Lash Sorcerers and Vindicators?
Because I've been in this since the tail end of 2nd mate. And my overall opinion of our book?
Not that great.
The book is thin - about half to two-thirds the size of the CSM book which is the same price point.
A lot of our units are really nothing more than fancy versions of other generic units...some of which are ALSO in the book, to rub some salt in the wound.
We have options without points or just straight up missing points for them.
And we've had very substantial parts of our army culled with no real reason. Especially when you consider that our Terminators have the SAME Power Level as CSM Terminators....uh...what?
As fancy as your speech was mate, trying to lecture us was pretty moot. The Index was a shoddy job and we all know it. It was literally someone looking at the shelves and going 'Uh, the army has X, Y and Z painted up in it. Guess that's what they have.'
Consistency. I really just wanted some semblance of consistency.
It's been my main issue with GW's general design aesthetic over the past several editions - we literally have a mess of aesthetics which makes key units of the CSM range look completely out of place next to eachother. Do you want archaic mutated CSM (Raptors, Dark Vengeance), Fleshy Abominations (Obliterators, Mutilators, Possessed), SM with trims and spikes (CSM, Terminators) or Lost and the Damned? Because our armies are a mess of all of the above.
To see the Death Guard codex...having no consistency from its history, from the past is disappointing. Putting generic versions of units in next to the 'fancy' versions...yet making sure the fancy versions have less options? Ew. That's pretty terrible. Altering units to deliberately invalidate existing units in people's armies save generous counts as usage? Also pretty questionable.
Think about it. They stripped away power fists and chainfists. Every single version of Chaos Terminators has had multiple power fists involved. The older Heresy armour has...you guessed it, power fists. They knew that those weapons were widespread and common and stripped them away. And there isn't an existing history of DG Terminators having less options. No, there isn't.
There IS such a history for Thousand Sons (as I said in the past, the issue was the fact it forced Swords in a range with all of 2 swords in total knowing most people would have been restricted to Power Weapons). Go look at the IA article and the 3.5 Codex. It's there. And a lot o 1k Sons Terminators date from back then.
The army hasn't really got consistency. It has gimmicks. Lots of character specific gimmicks.
And that's a bit...meh really. I was hoping to see an army that expanded on past restrictions and gave us a stronger overall feeling of the army's theme.
Not a thin book that seemed to be confused as to what it was doing. Putting generic next to special versions of the same thing? Terrible. Why not make the special ones just have more options?
'Oh but we'll lose the Chaos Lord reroll aura.' - You want diversity and difference but aren't willing to make sacrifices. Especially when the same aura exists in Daemon Princes. It'd be different. It'd force us to have to build to account for that missing bubble aura. You give and you take.
Death Guard already gave a lot. Only in the past few editions did anything come in. But now they've taken rather a lot and given us...um...not too much.
Can you please make out via PM or doesn´t this arouse you like doing it in public?
I try to make notes for not copying pricey bits for my "Attack on Black Reach"-termies, which will be reborn through Papa Nurgle. And I had enough of the whining.
Also the DS are bulkier than normal termies. So if somebody wants to take them, proxing some of the models and using original ones, will look weird. Maybe some leg-enlargement will help with that.
Starfarer wrote: I think we need a few of these for this thread:
I've played Death Guard since 4th edition, in which time I've built, heavily converted and painted 4 different iterations of my Death Guard army. I've played with gak rules for several editions, and sat out playing whole editions due to terrible rules like 7th had.
I have multiple units that I spent months converting, painting and had yet to even see the tabletop before being removed and options in the new codex.
And you know what? I don't really care. We have an actual codex now and the army is unique from other CSM armies. It seems like some people don't really want Death Guard, they want Nurgle marines with high toughness and all the options the CSM codex has. Great! Go play a Nurgle CSM army with all those options and take a detachment from the DG codex for the new units you like.
It was 100% clear this is what was happening when the Chaos Index was released. It's also exactly how GW has been reshaping factions in AOS, and making them better for it, IMO.
People keep throwing around that things have been invalidated. No, they are still usable. In fact, short of potentially losing out on some bonus command points and Death Guard army bonuses, there is literally nothing stopping you from playing your exact army as is.
I'm not going to re-read the lunacy that is the last few pages of this thread, but I'd be very surprised if anyone actually said that. Even that one guy banging on about how relatively difficult it might be for an Inquisitor to acquire power armour, I don't think even that guy said that.
Starfarer wrote: I think we need a few of these for this thread:
I've played Death Guard since 4th edition, in which time I've built, heavily converted and painted 4 different iterations of my Death Guard army. I've played with gak rules for several editions, and sat out playing whole editions due to terrible rules like 7th had.
I have multiple units that I spent months converting, painting and had yet to even see the tabletop before being removed and options in the new codex.
And you know what? I don't really care. We have an actual codex now and the army is unique from other CSM armies. It seems like some people don't really want Death Guard, they want Nurgle marines with high toughness and all the options the CSM codex has. Great! Go play a Nurgle CSM army with all those options and take a detachment from the DG codex for the new units you like.
It was 100% clear this is what was happening when the Chaos Index was released. It's also exactly how GW has been reshaping factions in AOS, and making them better for it, IMO.
People keep throwing around that things have been invalidated. No, they are still usable. In fact, short of potentially losing out on some bonus command points and Death Guard army bonuses, there is literally nothing stopping you from playing your exact army as is.
Well said starfarer
That's quite easy to say when you're not the one being given the shaft.
And you saw what coming?
GW writing a book that isn't even consistent with it's own lore, and then writing rules that are inconsistent with that lore?
GW removing weapon options for no explicit reason?
Or players eating up this crap like its the greatest thing they've ever had the pleasure of shoving down their gullet?
Because its all pretty damn surprising to me.
Tldr; If you think there aren't reasons why this book should go straight back to the warehouse, you may be an apologist. Hold them accountable for stuff like this and things will change for the better.
I just finished building Morty and he looks incredible. Even better in person than in the pics and that's saying something. Painting him will probably take 10,000 years but Jesus, he looks unbelievable. Probably GW's best model they've ever produced.
That's quite easy to say when you're not the one being given the shaft.
And you saw what coming?
GW writing a book that isn't even consistent with it's own lore, and then writing rules that are inconsistent with that lore?
GW removing weapon options for no explicit reason?
Or players eating up this crap like its the greatest thing they've ever had the pleasure of shoving down their gullet?
Because its all pretty damn surprising to me.
Tldr; If you think there aren't reasons why this book should go straight back to the warehouse, you may be an apologist. Hold them accountable for stuff like this and things will change for the better.
They finally wrote a cult codex that isn't just Nurgle CSM. The thing people having been asking about for YEARS.
This is essentially a NEW faction.
It is also an exceptionally fun set of rules so far. And any "out of codex" models can be used in a recent codex.
TLDR: If you think this book needs to go back to the warehouse you may be an overly critical troll.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/09/16 16:51:25
As this codex is now out, further discussion should take place in the correct 40 board.
Ne thread as/when/if for any MOAR models !
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Sisters and Wolves 4000
...it's good to be green! 
