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 streetsamurai wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
And I find it hysterical that people seem to forget that this was a common practice for a long time for Fantasy which the 40k crowd tended to shrug off as "not their problem".

Maybe when the infantry were literally mono-pose, with maybe an option for a different symbol on their shield, as that's all GW's plastics were capable of at the time.

And that was aeons ago. The comparison isn't even remotely valid these days.

Yeah. Maybe im missing something, but i fail to see the point kanluwen is trying to make here

Yeah I was playing fantasy back then and if a unit was in plastic that was a huge bonus. Most you were buying metal blisters of 2, standard bearer and musician, and champion. So the argument is invalid, You were buying everything piecemeal. Like I said, what other "current" unit has separate command figs? (current added for clarification) And as the unit box is 3 men short, they should have rolled those 2 into the unit box to at least make it 9. Yes I'll get the box, but my deathguard army has shrunk in size with all the price gouging. I'd rather just get a different army than expand at these prices.

Good news for the blightlords axe shortage. Orc axes fit nicely on these terminators if you cut off the sword top and pin the axe on. You can’t even notice it is a orc axe. Saved me from buying an extra box. Now lets hope we get 3 plasma guns in this upcoming box.

broxus wrote:
Good news for the blightlords axe shortage. Orc axes fit nicely on these terminators if you cut off the sword top and pin the axe on. You can’t even notice it is a orc axe. Saved me from buying an extra box. Now lets hope we get 3 plasma guns in this upcoming box.

That is what I did. 4 Ork axes, drilled holes in them and bam, wonderful conversions.

As for plasma, get the combi bits on shapeways. 10 plasma combi for 10$

I've used FW legion combi weapons and made a bunch of GS axes.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler

Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.

I have that trouble with Stormcast units.

Yeah, I guess I just meant now I've reached that point in 40k. Age of Sigmar started out that way. I remember reading a White Dwarf battle report with Stormcast in it, and I had no idea what was going on. Retributers? Revengenators? Are they the flying guys, or the ones with the extra big hammers? No idea.

 Mousemuffins wrote:

 TwilightSparkles wrote:

 TheWaspinator wrote:
I would rather go with a more creative Crawler alternative. This si upcoming from Miniature Scenery:

https://i.imgur.com/AgW66fL.jpg

A defiler carbon copy body with a knight knee guard stuck underneath , chucked on top of some tentacles? Each to their own, but that looks awful IMO.

Oh. Harsh. Still, you're welcome to your opinion. Not that either of the parts mentioned were remotely considered during design, nor can I see them now when I compare.

I think a few bits and a bit of green-stuffed daemon flesh would make this a great crawler alternative for someone who wants a more daemonic look to it. Obviously defiler-inspired in design but to say 'carbon copy body' is a bold-faced lie. I find it hard to believe people would have a problem with it being used as a crawler.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler

Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.

I have that trouble with Stormcast units.

Yeah, I guess I just meant now I've reached that point in 40k. Age of Sigmar started out that way. I remember reading a White Dwarf battle report with Stormcast in it, and I had no idea what was going on. Retributers? Revengenators? Are they the flying guys, or the ones with the extra big hammers? No idea.

I'm experiencing this with Primaris marines.

 puma713 wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Albino Squirrel wrote:

Biologus Putrifier and the Myphitic Blight-Hauler

Well, I think we've reached the point where I can no longer hope to remember what all these nonsense words mean.

I have that trouble with Stormcast units.

Yeah, I guess I just meant now I've reached that point in 40k. Age of Sigmar started out that way. I remember reading a White Dwarf battle report with Stormcast in it, and I had no idea what was going on. Retributers? Revengenators? Are they the flying guys, or the ones with the extra big hammers? No idea.

I'm experiencing this with Primaris marines.

The Stormcast ones seem tough because there's SO many, but the Primaris and DG ones aren't as bad. The Primaris ones generally make sense, whereas the DG ones are more nonsense fluffy. I dig them, though, and can at least keep track of the ones I'm using regularly. Not sure what the alternative would be... 'Heavy Plague Flamer Specialist' is pretty lame sounding.

Liberators
Prosecutors
Judicators
Retributors
Protectors
Decimators
Secaritors
Concussors
Fulminators
Tempestors
Desolators
Palladors
Venators
Relictors
Heraldors
Vexillors
Questors

Primaris and DG combined aren't even close to as bad as Stormcast. The funny thing is I made one of those up and you don't know which.





Still not as bad as ripperdactyls.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Liberators
Prosecutors
Judicators
Retributors
Protectors
Decimators
Secaritors
Concussors
Fulminators
Tempestors
Desolators
Palladors
Venators
Relictors
Heraldors
Vexillors
Questors

Primaris and DG combined aren't even close to as bad as Stormcast. The funny thing is I made one of those up and you don't know which.





Still not as bad as ripperdactyls.

Secaritors. Took about 5 seconds. GW names are not hard to remember.

I picked it out on my second attempt, I can scarcely believe that Concussors are an unit! Nice models, though!

The GW naming nonsense is truly ridiculous. I simply refuse to even use those silly names. "Your jump pack fellas..." will suffice. Or "those plasma gun dudes". Then again I also still call Wraithlords, dreadnoughts as they used to be...

Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.

People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...

Qlanth wrote:
Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.

People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.

Qlanth wrote:
Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.

People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...

Who exactly claimed to abandon the hobby? Please show me the quote.

People are just not excited as they were in March/April, when the first DI spoilers hit, if I remember correctly. They are just not getting the full load of DG and aim for smaller purchases or wait for a starter collection.

Also this "pricing experiment" will go in GW´s favour, just the information they get of of this, will help them to plan their later pricing and release strategies.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.

People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.

This. When you string out releases over 7 weeks, you give your customers an entire week to find fault in the few things you released that week. Couple that with the bitterness that they've been teased for what? 7 months? Then, the release doesn't live up to expectations, whether financially or otherwise, people are just put out.

I just hope it doesn't herald an age where all releases look like this. Maybe the Primaris and DG were test releases to see how the community handled them and they'll go back to reasonable releases in the future. Although I can't see them redoing a whole new line like they did with DG with any other army. Most other armies have what they need already released in multi-part kits.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.

People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.

Again this might be because of only being in the hobby for a couple of years... but the pricing doesn't really seem that off compared to other things I've seen released. The only unit I somewhat scoffed at was the Bloat Drone at $50 USD... but even that is going to come with a lot of cosmetic options and whatnot. And when I look back and compare that to, say, an Ad Mech Ironstrider? It's the same price but has more cosmetic options. Not to mention the $ to in-game points ratio is better for the Bloat Drone.

It feels like the prices have all been comparable to other releases I've seen so far. I've seen people compare it to Rubric Marines. The Plague Marines have far more options than Rubric Marines. The models are also larger in size, and each of them is extremely distinct. The minimum unit size is 5, and really that is what everyone is running anyway (5 models in a unit with 3 plas, or with 2xBlight Launcher 1x Plas, melee with Flail, etc) so with a box of these you can make a minimum unit size plus have two options to swap in or out... or just add the two to a unit and run 5. You're getting a unit PLUS some extras which is honestly way better than 95% of other boxes being sold.

As far as the "bad models" question... I find that to be a completely useless thing to complain about. I don't care for a lot of models and armies. I don't really like the way the Adeptus Custodes Custodian Guard models look. I didn't threaten to quit the hobby over it. There will be, at minimum, 19 unique sculpts for Plague Marines when this over. If you can't find any that you like in there, then maybe you just don't like the way the army looks and you should move on? There is nothing wrong with not liking the models. but GW didn't make those models just for you. They made them for a wider audience, and I think that outside of a small group of loud complainers... the models are extremely well received. At my LGS they have a set of the new stuff on display and I just had a conversation with them on Saturday about how this may be the best selling GW release to date, and how much we all loved the Blightlord models.

The attitude that I am seeing in this thread is that people had some expectations about this release and they weren't met. There is nothing wrong with that. But, there is a huge gap between feeling that you're disappointed in what this was, and feeling that GW owed you something they didn't deliver. It's entitlement plain and simple. Just because you played DG before this release does NOT mean that GW is forever required to make models that fit entirely within that box. To do that would mean nothing would ever progress.

Chikout wrote:

Spoiler:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Liberators
Prosecutors
Judicators
Retributors
Protectors
Decimators
Secaritors
Concussors
Fulminators
Tempestors
Desolators
Palladors
Venators
Relictors
Heraldors
Vexillors
Questors

Primaris and DG combined aren't even close to as bad as Stormcast. The funny thing is I made one of those up and you don't know which.





Still not as bad as ripperdactyls.

Secaritors. Took about 5 seconds. GW names are not hard to remember.

That you had to find it at all proves my point. And even if you personally can memorize all the names in a single read that doesn't mean anything because it's the community that has trouble, not every single individual within it. Further, it's not just aboht remembering names, when every Death Guard character has three adjectives crammed into its name the names don't mean anything anymore and becomes pointless text. They could have gone with just "Blightspawn" "Putrifier" etc. And it would come across better, especially since that's what they will be called on the table anyway (no one is going to say "Biologis Putrifier" every time they reference the model).

 puma713 wrote:


This. When you string out releases over 7 weeks, you give your customers an entire week to find fault in the few things you released that week. Couple that with the bitterness that they've been teased for what? 7 months? Then, the release doesn't live up to expectations, whether financially or otherwise, people are just put out.

I do not agree with this part at all. I think the order of the releases could have been better to give us the basic stuff we need up front so we can use all the new goodies from the Codex, but I am happy to see the releases spread out. If everything came out at once, people would have been complaining that they had too much stuff to buy, or not bought everything at once anyway. Spreading them out gives people room to breathe, and maybe even have stuff built every week to keep up with the releases, kind of like how the Konor campaign encouraged you to add a new unit of a certain theme every week. These kinds of things make the hobby much more approachable to new players than the daunting task of figuring out what to buy from a dozen items costing a couple hundred dollars all at once would.

Most of this thread comes off as petty whining. The 7-man box of PM is not great, but there are a ton of ways to get Plague Marines, way more so than something like the Rubrics, which only exist in one (excellent) box. I don't think one is better or worse (other than the price of the PM box), just different, and again generally more approachable. The DI set is awesome, the Easy Build options are awesome, the selection of single-pack characters allows for some smaller purchases. The models are generally gorgeous. Stuff like the weapon selection in the unit boxes are annoying, but nothing new.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 puma713 wrote:


This. When you string out releases over 7 weeks, you give your customers an entire week to find fault in the few things you released that week. Couple that with the bitterness that they've been teased for what? 7 months? Then, the release doesn't live up to expectations, whether financially or otherwise, people are just put out.

I do not agree with this part at all. I think the order of the releases could have been better to give us the basic stuff we need up front so we can use all the new goodies from the Codex, but I am happy to see the releases spread out. If everything came out at once, people would have been complaining that they had too much stuff to buy, or not bought everything at once anyway. Spreading them out gives people room to breathe, and maybe even have stuff built every week to keep up with the releases, kind of like how the Konor campaign encouraged you to add a new unit of a certain theme every week. These kinds of things make the hobby much more approachable to new players than the daunting task of figuring out what to buy from a dozen items costing a couple hundred dollars all at once would.

What is the harm in having every unit available to buy? I've never said, "OMG Every unit was released and I can't afford each one now." But, on the flipside, when someone wants to buy an entire army and they have to wait 7 weeks to do so, that gets a little tiresome. While we can agree to disagree, you have to realize that for every person that likes a release to be spread out so they can save, there is another person who wants everything released so they can purchase it all at once.

There is no offense in releasing everything and letting those who can afford all of them buy them and those that cannot can save and get them as they need to. You don't need GW to manage your money for you by releasing slowly. That's probably not why they released them across 7 weeks anyway. If anything, I would say it is to discourage bulk purchases from 3rd parties.

I like the release, the look of the minis and to an extent the switch to more monopose figures since they're going for a certain look which would work less well as a more flexible kit

I like the fact we've had (some) official info about it well in advance and more detail as it's got closer, it's so much better than suddenly dropping stuff with no notice at all (except for online rumours at least half of which were made up nonsense)

The two real problems with this release for me have been

1. the obvious 'mirroring' used for several of the plague marines, when you're going far more monopose than most previous releases don't make it so obvious even if digital sculpting makes it easy to do

2. Only 7 Plague Marines in the basic kit (£35) is a major drop compared to the expected 10 especially as it looks like there won't be all the options for every marine

(yes this is pretty normal for a GW kit but if you have freed up space by loosing 3 bodies they could have gone for all the options instead)

but i'm still getting a set, but probably not 2 or 3

and suggesting you can just add an easy build kit (£10) or the web only largely mirrored easy build kit with added art cards (£25) just rubs salt in the perceived wound

Qlanth wrote:


Again this might be because of only being in the hobby for a couple of years... but the pricing doesn't really seem that off compared to other things I've seen released. The only unit I somewhat scoffed at was the Bloat Drone at $50 USD... but even that is going to come with a lot of cosmetic options and whatnot. And when I look back and compare that to, say, an Ad Mech Ironstrider? It's the same price but has more cosmetic options. Not to mention the $ to in-game points ratio is better for the Bloat Drone.

Sticker shock comes with every new release. I don't think the prices are -too- obscene in comparison to recent 40k releases but they are steep for monopose plastic kits.

It feels like the prices have all been comparable to other releases I've seen so far. I've seen people compare it to Rubric Marines. The Plague Marines have far more options than Rubric Marines. The models are also larger in size, and each of them is extremely distinct. The minimum unit size is 5, and really that is what everyone is running anyway (5 models in a unit with 3 plas, or with 2xBlight Launcher 1x Plas, melee with Flail, etc) so with a box of these you can make a minimum unit size plus have two options to swap in or out... or just add the two to a unit and run 5. You're getting a unit PLUS some extras which is honestly way better than 95% of other boxes being sold.

We don't know if the Death Guard Plague Marine kit will be multipose plastics. Given that most infantry releases in the Death Guard line have been monopose or near monpose they are also likely to lack many substantial option. Also, what? You're getting nickle and dimed to get the squad numbers most other marine kits give by default and yet this is better than the Tactical Squad, the Primaris Intercessors or the Space Wolves kit? Which has a ton of options too, is multi pose and plastic.

As far as the "bad models" question... I find that to be a completely useless thing to complain about. I don't care for a lot of models and armies. I don't really like the way the Adeptus Custodes Custodian Guard models look. I didn't threaten to quit the hobby over it. There will be, at minimum, 19 unique sculpts for Plague Marines when this over. If you can't find any that you like in there, then maybe you just don't like the way the army looks and you should move on? There is nothing wrong with not liking the models. but GW didn't make those models just for you. They made them for a wider audience, and I think that outside of a small group of loud complainers... the models are extremely well received. At my LGS they have a set of the new stuff on display and I just had a conversation with them on Saturday about how this may be the best selling GW release to date, and how much we all loved the Blightlord models.

Do you mean a general "you"? If not, besides Typhus I think the new Death Guard models look pretty good. If they weren't demi-monopose kits I'd consider picking up an army. That's just the feeling I got from skimming this thread.

The attitude that I am seeing in this thread is that people had some expectations about this release and they weren't met. There is nothing wrong with that. But, there is a huge gap between feeling that you're disappointed in what this was, and feeling that GW owed you something they didn't deliver. It's entitlement plain and simple. Just because you played DG before this release does NOT mean that GW is forever required to make models that fit entirely within that box. To do that would mean nothing would ever progress.

People are entitled to their opinions. They can be upset about this all they want. If they were threatening GW with violence or organizing mass boycotts then yeah I'd get that. But they are just expressing their annoyance at it.

Eh. Aren't there about 20 different Plague Narine sculpts across all the releases, including some options in the kit? How custom do people really need things? Not like many of the 'truly multipose' kits look any good if you deviate from the default anyway (and plastic Catachans don't ever look good).

I think that a spread or short release have each pros and cons but ultimately are nothing crucial and concerning only people that want to start the army RIGHT NOW - in few months there will already be no difference.
Is really not such a big deal IMHO. Mind I am biased because I am a slow buyer that often uses ebay.

Concerning the 7-men box, well that is another issue. Is 7 men instead of 10 for an higher price, claim that "is a minimun squad PLUS TWO MODELS GW IS SO GENEROUS HOW DARE YOU" is risible.
Also, GW is selling a 3 Plague Marines kit with melta for like 40$ and is even suggesting to complete the 7 men team with such kit. This is borderline offensive.
In my specific case, what I am doing at the moment is recovering bits and DI plagues from ebay and converting, using different heads and tubes to make the models more unique. Melee weapons with the Blightkings bits (that I highly recommend to any DG player).

GW is "playing it smart" but I am sure they will sell me less PM boxes, 1 at best because I am not eager to pay an high price for mirrored models with minor details changed and an head swap. For that there is ebay and some pleasant (no sarcasm) converting work.

Same thing for the 40$ 3 marines box. I wanted to collect all these DG models but GW is telling me that I have to pay 40$ for some of them. This means that I give up to a complete DG and I will convert to finish the army, probably skipping some of the releases.
As an example, I will convert the blight-hauler and I will look for "used up" FW hellbrutes since FW is too stupid to reprint them.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.

People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.

The fact that those are bad models is your opinion and it's only shared by a small number of people all things considered.

Most people online seem to like it, and I'm sure they'll sell a ton. In short, a vocal tiny minority of people isn't exactly relevant.

That said, I believe GW has never made such good models. This release has been great, and I don't care that I had to wait a few months.

Bluebeard wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Qlanth wrote:
Maybe it's because I've only been in this hobby for a couple of years... but I find the anger and over-entitled rage coming from this thread absolutely baffling.

People incensed that a box only comes with 7 models and claiming to be abandoning the hobby over it... I think maybe you lack some perspective...

I think it's a case of the straw that broke the camels back. This release has seen some bad models, bad kits and a lot of obscene pricing. That, combined with how drawn out it was which caused fatigue, made people really irritated with the Death Guard release. The Plague Marine kit coming in a bizarre number that requires a separate purchase to complete was the cherry on top.

The fact that those are bad models is your opinion and it's only shared by a small number of people all things considered.

Most people online seem to like it, and I'm sure they'll sell a ton. In short, a vocal tiny minority of people isn't exactly relevant.

That said, I believe GW has never made such good models. This release has been great, and I don't care that I had to wait a few months.

Yes, of course it's my opinion. And so is everything you wrote. And I even said I liked the models for the most part!

I'm more and more happy I diverted from an intended DG force months ago (I had planned one just shortly before the proper DG stuff was announced). It really has been a huge mess...the prices and kit decisions would drive me mad.

I'll stick to my one squad of Plague Marines I kit-bashed from 3rd party stuff and MkIII armour...

Honestly I think it's a great release with a lot of really good models. Which is why it's so disappointing to see it tarnished by what are ultimately small problems. It's almost like someone was challenged to mess up the DG release as much as possible while making the smallest amount of mistakes. Is it really so bad that terminators have 3 axe/ 3sword? No, but when adding just one more of each would have fixed the issue almost entirely it seems unreasonable. Couple that with a half dozen other small mistakes like it and it becomes the overall issue; a release that is so close to being absolutely fantastic messed up by easily avoided problems.

I'd describe DG release a trully chaotic release. From some insane prices, monopose to "rock star" Typhus fiasco.

Even if some people who play the armies have no trouble remembering the crazy names, there is another problem with it. As GW is trying to lower the barrier to entry to having starter sets and simpler base rules, they may be making people less likely to start by making the background too confusing. Like I said, if I were kind of interested in Stormcast and picked up a White Dwarf to check out their battle report, but couldn't make any sense of what was going on, I might be a little discouraged.

They made it much easier to understand the rules, but way harder to understand the lingo.