Primaris Tactica - Tactics using just Primaris and related models

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**argonak**

Spiky Norman wrote:
argonak wrote:
For a 1k force, whats the best thing to add to the Primaris from Dark Imperium? I bit the bullet today and ordered the boxed set.

I'm thinking I could use another intercessor squad and some hellblasters? Maybe the Aggressor? Should I just try and trade the nurgle for another DA primaris set?

I mostly play at 1k points, so the redemptor and repulsor are a bit too high in points for me.

I would recommend trading the Nurgle part for another primaris set. That gives you extra Intercessors and Hellblasters that you would want in a bigger list, plus extra characters you can convert to a non-gravis captain/Apothecary/Librarian or even a Techmarine if you need to and feel up to the job/have some useful bits.
If you switch around some arms and position the heads differently, you can make the Dark Imperium mono-pose marines different enough that they don't look like duplicates.

In terms of what you could do for a 1000pts army with the Dark Imperium primaris marines, I went for the Redemptor dreadnought. It looks awesome, is a very nice kit and has pretty nice stats. Only thing is that if you have any old dreadnoughts, they will look like midgets next to it. :-)

A 1000pts list could look like this:
HQ
Primaris Captain +Master-crafted power sword + Boltstorm gauntlet gauntlet
Lieutenant (non-primaris)
TROOPS
Intercessor squad A +Bolt rifle
Intercessor squad B +Bolt rifle
ELITES
Redemptor Dreadnought +H. gatling cannon +Gatling cannon +Icarus + Stormbolterx2
Primaris Ancient
HEAVY
Hellblaster squad +Plasma incinerator x5
FAST
Inceptor squad +Assault bolterx2 x3
--998pts

Mind you the Lt. has to stand-in as a non primaris Lieutenant, as there is not enough points to buy a primaris one. But that uses what's in the box plus a dreadnought.
Unfortunately you'll have to use a Patrol detachment, since there is only two Intercessor squads in the box. Should you get the opportunity to trade for an extra set, you can consider bringing three squads and use a Battalion detachment instead.

Thanks for the advice. I've been back and forth on what to do with my old space marines, I never had many to begin with. Just Black Reach plus space hulk and a little more. I saw some Primaris in the flesh on the weekend though, and there just isn't any comparison between the two models, its night and day. I may just sell them off on ebay.

edit: Man, I only just ordered it and found someone on facebook nearby who wants to trade for the nurgle dudes. That was easy. So I should end up with two boxes of Primaris no sweat.

**Captain Garius**

I actually find Hellblasters to be some of the best anti-tank/monster we have. I go for the Rhino Primaris buff over the captain generally, and run a ten man squad... But having both is easy. Against a Land Raider in RF range this will kill it in a single turn of shooting on average. That isn't bad. 6 Plasma Inceptors with a captain deep striking with them, or the Ultra Stratagem, will do really well for anti tank too. I am disappointed in the heavy version of Intercessors and Hellblasters, as well as the Reivers, but overall I really like the Primaris units. On topic of what to add to make them better I usually throw in Devastators, Contemptors, or Vanguard Vets to supplement them. Devastators just because I like diversity over just taking 25 Hellblasters. Really the characters are all I usually pass on. I go for the cheaper power armor variants.

**Mymearan**

Played my first game yesterday

Captain in Gravis Armour
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Librarian
Primaris Ancient

5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors

10x Hellblasters
3x Inceptors
3x Inceptors

3x Aggressors
2x Lascannon Predators (yeah not pure Primaris but two of these are too good not to take)

The standouts were the Hellblasters and Predators. Both have an INSANE damage output when re-Rolling 1s both to Hit and Wound. The Preds took out a vehicle each a turn, and one turn one of them took out two... simply insane for the points.

The Captain and Lieutenants were invaluable buff machines. Both are auto-take IMO, especially for buffing Plasma and Lascannons (low-shot, high strength weapons). I forgot to ever use the Ancient's ability

The Librarian killed Celestine twice so he's a hero in my book.

Intercessors are great objective holders, very durable especially in cover and can put out some very damaging fire and even hold their own when they get charged.

The Inceptors are ok but way too fragile for the points, same for the Aggressors. Probably won't be using either much in the future.

So in summary: Hellblasters and Predators are crazy. Characters are so good for buffing. Intercessors are great troops. Rest felt meh.

**Desubot**

Had a silly game my self with full primarus against chaos.

had to fight a lord of skull. jesus the wounds.

key note was chaptermaster upgrade next to laspulsor and hell blasters. they ended up doing 20 odd wounds to it, followed by it charging my repulsor and dieing to overwatch. on turn one.

chapter master level power is dumb good. so is the hellblaster. repulsor just got lucky with all the plink shots.

**Vertrucio**

At this point I'm thinking a Predator is going to be a requirement in Primaris armies for some time to come, or some other kind of dedicated AT. Stormtalons and Whirlwinds also come to mind, what with how powerful the manticore is.

I'm going to try using multiple small squads of Heavy Hellblasters as soft anti-vehicle too.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Mymearan wrote:
Played my first game yesterday

Captain in Gravis Armour
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Librarian
Primaris Ancient

5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors

10x Hellblasters
3x Inceptors
3x Inceptors

3x Aggressors
2x Lascannon Predators (yeah not pure Primaris but two of these are too good not to take)

The standouts were the Hellblasters and Predators. Both have an INSANE damage output when re-Rolling 1s both to Hit and Wound. The Preds took out a vehicle each a turn, and one turn one of them took out two... simply insane for the points.

The Captain and Lieutenants were invaluable buff machines. Both are auto-take IMO, especially for buffing Plasma and Lascannons (low-shot, high strength weapons). I forgot to ever use the Ancient's ability The Librarian killed Celestine twice so he's a hero in my book.

Intercessors are great objective holders, very durable especially in cover and can put out some very damaging fire and even hold their own when they get charged.

The Inceptors are ok but way too fragile for the points, same for the Aggressors. Probably won't be using either much in the future.

So in summary: Hellblasters and Predators are crazy. Characters are so good for buffing. Intercessors are great troops. Rest felt meh.

I've been surprised by Intercessors as troops as well. They hold the line and require a good amount of resources to put them down, but not a broken amount of resources either.

Just wish their Aux Grenade Launcher didn't count as their grenade throwing though.

**MadMaverick76**

Mymearan wrote:Played my first game yesterday

Captain in Gravis Armour
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Lieutenant
Primaris Librarian
Primaris Ancient

5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors
5x Intercessors

10x Hellblasters
3x Inceptors
3x Inceptors

3x Aggressors
2x Lascannon Predators (yeah not pure Primaris but two of these are too good not to take)

I run a 1500 point list minus the Aggressors, Inceptors, and Ancient; also I added one more squad of Intercessors. So far it has faired pretty well. My concern is the lack of bodies, but that is to be expected with elite of elite space marines. I have been pretty happy so far. Currently debating the usage of the librarian. The Librarian powers seem kind of just okay. They are usually great force multipliers. I am hoping the supplementary codexes (BA, SM, DA) add some better powers to choose from.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I've been surprised by Intercessors as troops as well. They hold the line and require a good amount of resources to put them down, but not a broken amount of resources either.

Just wish their Aux Grenade Launcher didn't count as their grenade throwing though.

They have been great, the two wounds and that -1 AP on their bolters have made them pretty awesome objective holders, definitely a bigger fan of them over a full tactical squad (although I would think a tactical squad would be more cost efficient). The trade off of the grenade launcher is definitely worth it IMHO. It basically is your grenade throw, just upped distance like crazy. The fact that it is a free upgrade is pretty awesome too. I have so far gone undefeated with my Primaris at under 1k (had a close game against an Ork Horde). This is also considering we play objectives not just a drag out deathmatch.

**snottlebocket**

What do you play in your 1k primaris?

**Deathwatch101**

MadMaverick76 wrote:

They have been great, the two wounds and that -1 AP on their bolters have made them pretty awesome objective holders, definitely a bigger fan of them over a full tactical squad (although I would think a tactical squad would be more cost efficient). The trade off of the grenade launcher is definitely worth it IMHO. It basically is your grenade throw, just upped distance like crazy. The fact that it is a free upgrade is pretty awesome too. I have so far gone undefeated with my Primaris at under 1k (had a close game against an Ork Horde). This is also considering we play objectives not just a drag out deathmatch.

Don't the Grenade Launchers cost 1pt? I know its not much, but they aren't free? unless I'm missing something.....

**Mandragola**

Deathwatch101 wrote:
MadMaverick76 wrote:

They have been great, the two wounds and that -1 AP on their bolters have made them pretty awesome objective holders, definitely a bigger fan of them over a full tactical squad (although I would think a tactical squad would be more cost efficient). The trade off of the grenade launcher is definitely worth it IMHO. It basically is your grenade throw, just upped distance like crazy. The fact that it is a free upgrade is pretty awesome too. I have so far gone undefeated with my Primaris at under 1k (had a close game against an Ork Horde). This is also considering we play objectives not just a drag out deathmatch.

Don't the Grenade Launchers cost 1pt? I know its not much, but they aren't free? unless I'm missing something.....

Yes, but it's not written in the codex - they forgot. You'd only know that you needed to pay a point for it if you bothered to read the online FAQ.

Good to see that everyone feels the same as I do about intercessors anyway. They really do precisely the job you want troops to do.

Interesting on the chapter master. I'm debating whether to put Pedro Kantor into my Crimson Fist list for an upcoming tournament. The difference he'd make to overwatch is immense, and it would be no bad thing to have all those rerolls handed out as well. I don't play 100% primaris, obviously, but I almost do!

**Bremon**

I picked up a dreadnought, predator and Primaris librarian to add on to my DI starter force. So far intercessors have been fantastic for me. They’ve given both of my regular opponents fits because they are hard to shift, and actually fare reasonably well in melee if you don’t expect miracles. They also don’t get targeted as much as you might expect because things like plasma and exocrine etc. are focused on tougher nuts, like Hellblasters. I’m going to pickup another dread and some aggressors to try them out (bolters are the direction I’m leaning). I’m not sure what to do with the librarian as the powers don’t seem too great but I need more than santic halo for deny the witch. The ven dread is going to have twin autocannon and twin lascannon, the predator will have autocannon and las sponsons, my hope is to balance anti-tank and anti heavy infantry across two platforms rather than one target having 4 lascannons and my AT capability being crippled after the loss of a single model (keep in mind we are only currently playing 1k).

**Mandragola**

I'm questioning my librarian too. The main good thing about him is null zone, which can sometimes be game-winning. But the rest of the time he's actually kind of mediocre.

And even null zone is at its best against armies like GKs and daemons, which are pretty good at denying the witch and cancelling it. Plus you can't rely on casting it, even if you have CPs to burn for rerolls.

**Godeskian**

Try a Culexus as your anti psyker option. I use mine mostly because he's such an epic troll

**Bremon**

Too true; null zone seems reasonably good, might of heroes has situational benefits thanks to the new way S/T interact, and outside of those everything is average to bad. Veil of time is ok, but there are only so many units that are worthy of having it cast on them as many marine units hit like pillows. The mortal wound protection of psychic fortress is decent, while the morale aspect of it is completely unnecessary. Fury of the ancients is something I’d never take.

**MadMaverick76**

snottlebocket wrote:What do you play in your 1k primaris?

Typically:
-Primaris Captain
-1x Lt
-3x Intercessors (10 man, 2x 5 man)
-1x Hellblaster Squad (6 man)
-Las Predator

I like having more bodies at the lower points. If I am going against an elite heavy list, I typically trade in some Intercessors for more hellblasters, or trade in the hellblasters for another las predator.

Deathwatch101 wrote:
Don't the Grenade Launchers cost 1pt? I know its not much, but they aren't free? unless I'm missing something.....

I know it cost 1 point, I still refer to it as 'free' due to its' immense bonus versus cost.

**Bremon**

I’m conflicted on the predator as the venerable dreadnought is arguably a better gun platform. Slightly cheaper and higher BS makes more use of the captain reroll, and it can branch off and burn CP to captain buff others. It can’t take 4 lascannons but if I took one las Pred as my only AT at 1k I’d only get 1-2 rounds of shooting out of it. Hellblasters are versatile but they have a target on their backs and are more susceptible to small arms fire, and I have at least one fry himself per game on average (yes I use a captain buff as well).

**Mandragola**

Bremon wrote:
I’m conflicted on the predator as the venerable dreadnought is arguably a better gun platform. Slightly cheaper and higher BS makes more use of the captain reroll, and it can branch off and burn CP to captain buff others. It can’t take 4 lascannons but if I took one las Pred as my only AT at 1k I’d only get 1-2 rounds of shooting out of it. Hellblasters are versatile but they have a target on their backs and are more susceptible to small arms fire, and I have at least one fry himself per game on average (yes I use a captain buff as well).

Yeah venerable dreadnoughts are good. Personally I prefer the Contemptor Mortis as a gun platform. You get the 2+ BS but combined with CTs and 4 lascannons. In a RG army it's fantastic.

When predators are good is when you have 3 of them, a warlord with the trait that gives another -1ap on a 6 to wound, and you pop the kill shot stratagem. Suddenly you have autocannons doing 4 wounds, lascannons wounding everything on a 2+, better ap on a 5 or 6 to wound. Things die, fast. Downside is having to have all your big guns in one place - though actually they are somewhat mobile. My friend used this for his iron hands and found the only problem was that his warlord couldn't keep up.

Another interesting option is the Xiphon. I've recently painted mine up and only used it once, but on paper it's a beauty (or a piece of broken FW filth, depending on which side of the board you're on). It costs 20 points more than a predator but has another scary gun. It has the exact same profile as a predator - but then it piles on a ton of special rules. It flies, it gets +1 to hit other planes (with no penalty against ground targets), you can't charge it unless you can fly and even then it can fall back and still shoot - and for no reason at all it doesn't suffer a penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons.

I've given mine a pilot made out of a Hellblaster. He just about fits in the cockpit. So I get to claim that it's relevant to this discussion of primaris-only tactics

**MadMaverick76**

Bremon wrote:
I’m conflicted on the predator as the venerable dreadnought is arguably a better gun platform. Slightly cheaper and higher BS makes more use of the captain reroll, and it can branch off and burn CP to captain buff others. It can’t take 4 lascannons but if I took one las Pred as my only AT at 1k I’d only get 1-2 rounds of shooting out of it. Hellblasters are versatile but they have a target on their backs and are more susceptible to small arms fire, and I have at least one fry himself per game on average (yes I use a captain buff as well).

I agree. A single Las Predator at 1k is not optimal. I have rarely lost it though by turn 3 (played about 6 games, lost it twice in turn 2). Additionally, the direct fire that it can consume is usually split with the impending hellblaster doom. The only thing We have to be careful of is reserve/deep striking. One of the times I lost it was due to some DSing terminators in my back field (rookie mistake). Usually by the time I have lost it, it has inflicted enough pain to justify its' cost.

**Bremon**

Good to know. I think my plan for 1k in the near term is to remove Hellblasters and run both the Ven Dread and Pred; the Pred autocannon and twin autocannon aren’t perfect substitutes for plasma by any means but force my opponent to require more anti tank, which helps my infantry stay alive, can touch things further away, and don’t fry themselves lol. I’ll let you guys know how it goes. Hellblasters have mostly been MVPs for me but they are a bit squishier than I’d like, and 3’ range means lots of mean things can slap them back.

**Desubot**

MadMaverick76 wrote:
Bremon wrote:
I’m conflicted on the predator as the venerable dreadnought is arguably a better gun platform. Slightly cheaper and higher BS makes more use of the captain reroll, and it can branch off and burn CP to captain buff others. It can’t take 4 lascannons but if I took one las Pred as my only AT at 1k I’d only get 1-2 rounds of shooting out of it. Hellblasters are versatile but they have a target on their backs and are more susceptible to small arms fire, and I have at least one fry himself per game on average (yes I use a captain buff as well).

I agree. A single Las Predator at 1k is not optimal. I have rarely lost it though by turn 3 (played about 6 games, lost it twice in turn 2). Additionally, the direct fire that it can consume is usually split with the impending hellblaster doom. The only thing We have to be careful of is reserve/deep striking. One of the times I lost it was due to some DSing terminators in my back field (rookie mistake). Usually by the time I have lost it, it has inflicted enough pain to justify its' cost.

Dont forget to auspex scan if you can.

iv killed more terminators that way.

**Bremon**

That’s a fantastic point, and is a strong reason to retain Hellblasters in the list. The 1k I’m going to try a couple times in the near future that stratagem will likely be used by aggressors in most cases. We’ll see how things play out!

**Mandragola**

Aggressors are usually the best option for auspex scan -
especially if they've stood still, as they can fire twice.

Hellblasters aren't quite so good as they really don't want to overcharge. That extra -1 to hit is really not good news.

**Bremon**

True; modifiers after rerolls really is a stinker where that’s concerned as the captain buff doesn’t help as much.

**Saythings**

Bremon wrote:
True; modifiers after rerolls really is a stinker where that’s concerned as the captain buff doesn’t help as much.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the modifiers after rerolls doesn't affect the reroll from a captain (reroll 1s). It does suck when the second roll results are 2's AND 1's counting as Gets Hot's model removal.

However, if you are simply looking at it from a Captian helping you avoid the first set of 1s, it's still good to have a captain/CM. The CM becomes slightly less effective since you can't reroll the 3s.

Edit for elaboration:

Spoiler:

**Bremon**

CM is good; but with a captain any 2 in your first batch of rolls is not re-rolled; it isn’t a one until *after* rerolls are completed, unless I’ve misunderstood the way things work. So rapid fire: 10 shots, 2 1s, 2 2s, then 6 4-6, you’re guaranteed 2 dead models and can only reroll the 1s, each of which also has a 33% chance of killing someone.

**Saythings**

Bremon wrote:
CM is good; but with a captain any 2 in your first batch of rolls is not re-rolled; it isn’t a one until *after* rerolls are completed, unless I’ve misunderstood the way things work. So rapid fire: 10 shots, 2 1s, 2 2s, then 6 4-6, you’re guaranteed 2 dead models and can only reroll the 1s, each of which also has a 33% chance of killing someone.

Any 3s in the first patch are not rerolled** - I typed out an explanation in a spoiler to clarify.

I agree that the Captain doesn't help againt the natural 2's since he doesn't let you reroll them and will intern die from the Gets Hots, but the Captain still allows natural 1s to be rerolled. If your sole purpose is to keep Hellblasters alive (from a -1 to hit modifier) your best bet is to spend the 3 CPs to make him a Chapter Master as it will lessen the chances of them dying to 1's and 2's.

**Bremon**

Yes, I believe we are in agreement on how things work, and I still think the captain is a great buff unit. I was simply lamenting the idea of any 2 in a captain aura with a -1 to hit not counting as a 1 until after re-rolls are completed. Following that logic every 2 rolled is actually a dead die, as it is not rerolled, and once rerolls are completed those natural 2s represent dead Hellblasters once the modifier is applied. A Chapter Master is far more helpful in those circumstances.

**Desubot**

Bremon wrote:
Yes, I believe we are in agreement on how things work, and I still think the captain is a great buff unit. I was simply lamenting the idea of any 2 in a captain aura with a -1 to hit not counting as a 1 until after re-rolls are completed. Following that logic every 2 rolled is actually a dead die, as it is not rerolled, and once rerolls are completed those natural 2s represent dead Hellblasters once the modifier is applied. A Chapter Master is far more helpful in those circumstances.

Throw in an ancient with a relic banner for extra fun and shots on a 3+ as you kill your own dude

**Saythings**

@Bremon, alrighty! Just wanted to make sure all the information was given

@desubot Exactly! Oh noes, a dead die. Sike, eat a plasma to the face! XD

**Bremon**

@Saythings thanks!

@desubot lol! I’ve used the apothecary to reasonable success in a handful of games but have yet to use the ancient. Now the wheels are turning. Does the “victim” make a single shot, or shoot as normal with a single weapon? Can a Hellblaster rapid fire? Can an aggressor shoot 6 shots (each glove is technically a separate weapon, no?).