Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I like how now with DW we can build.... "tactical squads with primaris".
The special weapon and heavy weapons lot are taken by the Hellblasters, the heavy melee specialist by the Aggressor with its fists and so on.
I also wonder what profile will they use. The Primaris Sergeants whould be stand in for "veterans" so maybe all DW Primaris will get 3 attack base? Nah, onle can only wish

I think it might be good to mix an aggressor with assault hellblasters. It doesn't look like it benefits rapid fire weapons at all though, so I suppose it's going to be best to use auto bolt rifles.

The occasional reiver makes sense, and is actually a good way to get a cheaper, better intercessor with auto bolt rifle.

I'm not sure whether to go with plasma or dakka inceptors. Plasma combos well with aggressors, but if he blows up you lose your ability to fall back and shoot.

A concern I have is that the squads all seem to be based on 5 intercessors. That's not a bad thing as such, but it does mean units could get big, and expensive, pretty easily. On the other hand, all the other guys really benefit from having the intercessors there to catch bullets for them, and the intercessors themselves are vastly improved by SIA. If those auto bolt rifles get to spit out hellfire, rerolling 1s to wound a lot of the time, things will be seriously hurt.

I believe you don't have to take five Intercessors.

 Primark G wrote:
I believe you don't have to take five Intercessors.

You might not have to, but the kill teams in the preview all have at least 5 intercessors.

Wasn't that the system in the old book too? You got 5 vets and then added other guys. I'm curious to see how many other guys you're allowed, as some examples use more than one of a particular type of guy.

Anyway I can see intercessors with SIA being pretty great, so having to take some doesn't look like being a huge hardship. Depending on their price they might actually be spammable, and a battalion of them could easily be a solid choice. You'd need AT from somewhere, but not a lot else.

Mandragola wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
I believe you don't have to take five Intercessors.

You might not have to, but the kill teams in the preview all have at least 5 intercessors.

Wasn't that the system in the old book too? You got 5 vets and then added other guys. I'm curious to see how many other guys you're allowed, as some examples use more than one of a particular type of guy.

Anyway I can see intercessors with SIA being pretty great, so having to take some doesn't look like being a huge hardship. Depending on their price they might actually be spammable, and a battalion of them could easily be a solid choice. You'd need AT from somewhere, but not a lot else.

Yeah, you start with 5 highly customizable vets, one of which could be a Black Shield and the other a Sgt.

Fortis Kill Teams are best thought of as ways to make your Intercessor squads way more killy.

From today's Warhammer Live Stream about the Deathwatch codex:

Primaris can not ride in a Corvus Blackstar, Repulsers are in the Codex though.

Intercessors are only 18 points a piece, but the Stalker Bolt Rifle is up to 3 points. They didn't mention regular Bolt Rifles.

I feel like if the points are the same or only 1 more Deathwatch now has the strictly better Primaris army thanks to Special Ammunition and all the +1/reroll 1 to wound strats.

 Malkyr wrote:
From today's Warhammer Live Stream about the Deathwatch codex:

Primaris can not ride in a Corvus Blackstar, Repulsers are in the Codex though.

Intercessors are only 18 points a piece, but the Stalker Bolt Rifle is up to 3 points. They didn't mention regular Bolt Rifles.

I feel like if the points are the same or only 1 more Deathwatch now has the strictly better Primaris army thanks to Special Ammunition and all the +1/reroll 1 to wound strats.

Well on the bright side they made it to where I won't be spending money on the Corvus so at least there is that!

I have just painted my Roboute Guilliman for my Custodes army but i am thinking about starting a Primaris army.

Has anyone have success with a Primaris only+Guilliman list?

That would be tough... you need stuff like ML and Fire Raptors.

Kinda ticked that Primaris won't be able to take the blackstar. It was a dumb piece of legacy ruling in the first place and now they are doubling down on it.

Intercessors are less points that SM codex. Get over it.

I think a battalion of death watch might be a legitimately good detachment now. I'm thinking assault bolters, with an aggressor and maybe an inceptor in each squad. Even some assault hellblasters, potentially.

20 points for an inceptor with an assault bolter and specialist ammo isn't really that much. And you never know, they might get access to some decent relics or something.

You do end up with large expensive squads, which is awkward. It does mean you can have quite a lot of guys though. It's going to be pretty interesting. Shame if everyone just plays death watch marines now - which seems a distinct possibility.

Mandragola wrote:
I think a battalion of death watch might be a legitimately good detachment now. I'm thinking assault bolters, with an aggressor and maybe an inceptor in each squad. Even some assault hellblasters, potentially.

20 points for an inceptor with an assault bolter and specialist ammo isn't really that much. And you never know, they might get access to some decent relics or something.

You do end up with large expensive squads, which is awkward. It does mean you can have quite a lot of guys though. It's going to be pretty interesting. Shame if everyone just plays death watch marines now - which seems a distinct possibility.

Assault bolters aren't on the list of SIA weapons according to the screenshot on BOLS

Lemondish wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I think a battalion of death watch might be a legitimately good detachment now. I'm thinking assault bolters, with an aggressor and maybe an inceptor in each squad. Even some assault hellblasters, potentially.

20 points for an inceptor with an assault bolter and specialist ammo isn't really that much. And you never know, they might get access to some decent relics or something.

You do end up with large expensive squads, which is awkward. It does mean you can have quite a lot of guys though. It's going to be pretty interesting. Shame if everyone just plays death watch marines now - which seems a distinct possibility.

Assault bolters aren't on the list of SIA weapons according to the screenshot on BOLS

They are called auto bolt rifles. Second on the list, and bolt carbines (identical guns for reivers) are second. The master-crafted versions that lieutenants and captains have are also on the list.

There might be something to be said for a vanguard detachment of reivers instead of a battalion of intercessors. One less HQ to take, and reivers are better intercessors for 1 ppm less. But you can't then mix things up in kill teams that way, and obviously you get 4 fewer CPs. It would give you some flexibility in what you took as well, so you might have dreadnoughts or something instead of reivers, if you didn't want so many infantry.

Intercessors are probably the best option though. I think that the really big thing you get from death watch is the option to take troops that are actually quite dangerous - which is very unusual for a marine army. You might well want to bring 30+ of these guys, and they'd form the core of a decent army I think.

Do we now if the SIA can be applied to the repulsor and/or redemptor?

 _Ness wrote:
Do we now if the SIA can be applied to the repulsor and/or redemptor?

I believe that vehicles don't get SIA.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
Do we now if the SIA can be applied to the repulsor and/or redemptor?

I believe that vehicles don't get SIA.

They could maybe if they had bolt weapons, but I don't think the Redemptor does.

Audustum wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 _Ness wrote:
Do we now if the SIA can be applied to the repulsor and/or redemptor?

I believe that vehicles don't get SIA.

They could maybe if they had bolt weapons, but I don't think the Redemptor does.

It was mentioned in the MWG or BoLS review that vehicles did not get special lissue ammo and paid the normal points for bolter based weapons.

That makes sense. This is typically the case for vehicles in general.

 Primark G wrote:
That makes sense. This is typically the case for vehicles in general.

Well Marine vehicles at least...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Primark G wrote:
That makes sense. This is typically the case for vehicles in general.

Well Marine vehicles at least...

Exalted. This made me feel.

Mandragola wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I think a battalion of death watch might be a legitimately good detachment now. I'm thinking assault bolters, with an aggressor and maybe an inceptor in each squad. Even some assault hellblasters, potentially.

20 points for an inceptor with an assault bolter and specialist ammo isn't really that much. And you never know, they might get access to some decent relics or something.

You do end up with large expensive squads, which is awkward. It does mean you can have quite a lot of guys though. It's going to be pretty interesting. Shame if everyone just plays death watch marines now - which seems a distinct possibility.

Assault bolters aren't on the list of SIA weapons according to the screenshot on BOLS

They are called auto bolt rifles. Second on the list, and bolt carbines (identical guns for reivers) are second. The master-crafted versions that lieutenants and captains have are also on the list.

There might be something to be said for a vanguard detachment of reivers instead of a battalion of intercessors. One less HQ to take, and reivers are better intercessors for 1 ppm less. But you can't then mix things up in kill teams that way, and obviously you get 4 fewer CPs. It would give you some flexibility in what you took as well, so you might have dreadnoughts or something instead of reivers, if you didn't want so many infantry.

Intercessors are probably the best option though. I think that the really big thing you get from death watch is the option to take troops that are actually quite dangerous - which is very unusual for a marine army. You might well want to bring 30+ of these guys, and they'd form the core of a decent army I think.

No, auto bolt rifles are carried by Intercessors. Inceptors and Aggressors do not get SIA, because they carry different weapons, which is what I was referring to in the comment I quoted.

 Malkyr wrote:
From today's Warhammer Live Stream about the Deathwatch codex:

Primaris can not ride in a Corvus Blackstar, Repulsers are in the Codex though.

Intercessors are only 18 points a piece, but the Stalker Bolt Rifle is up to 3 points. They didn't mention regular Bolt Rifles.

I feel like if the points are the same or only 1 more Deathwatch now has the strictly better Primaris army thanks to Special Ammunition and all the +1/reroll 1 to wound strats.

18 points for intercessors with SIA??!

I've got some painting to do.

Lemondish wrote:

Mandragola wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
I think a battalion of death watch might be a legitimately good detachment now. I'm thinking assault bolters, with an aggressor and maybe an inceptor in each squad. Even some assault hellblasters, potentially.

20 points for an inceptor with an assault bolter and specialist ammo isn't really that much. And you never know, they might get access to some decent relics or something.

You do end up with large expensive squads, which is awkward. It does mean you can have quite a lot of guys though. It's going to be pretty interesting. Shame if everyone just plays death watch marines now - which seems a distinct possibility.

Assault bolters aren't on the list of SIA weapons according to the screenshot on BOLS

They are called auto bolt rifles. Second on the list, and bolt carbines (identical guns for reivers) are second. The master-crafted versions that lieutenants and captains have are also on the list.

There might be something to be said for a vanguard detachment of reivers instead of a battalion of intercessors. One less HQ to take, and reivers are better intercessors for 1 ppm less. But you can't then mix things up in kill teams that way, and obviously you get 4 fewer CPs. It would give you some flexibility in what you took as well, so you might have dreadnoughts or something instead of reivers, if you didn't want so many infantry.

Intercessors are probably the best option though. I think that the really big thing you get from death watch is the option to take troops that are actually quite dangerous - which is very unusual for a marine army. You might well want to bring 30+ of these guys, and they'd form the core of a decent army I think.

No, auto bolt rifles are carried by Intercessors. Inceptors and Aggressors do not get SIA, because they carry different weapons, which is what I was referring to in the comment I quoted.

You're right. I meant to talk about intercessors too, but wrote inceptors. Not sure if it was autocorrect or just a brain fart that caused that. I know inceptors don’t get special ammo - and cost 45 points rather than 20. My bad sorry.

To be clear, I think a battalion of intercessors with auto bolt rifles would be good. I probably wouldn’t add other guys to the squads - I’d just have lots of them. Paying 45 points to give a 100 point unit the ability to fall back and shoot doesn’t seem worth it.

Reivers might be good, essentially as a way to get more of the same. Reivers are identical to intercessors, but have a few little bonuses and cost a point less.

Whether or not to add hellblasters is a harder question. It might be harder to get all of them in a reroll bubble if they are spread through loads of squads - though otherwise it’s a good thing.

Another thing in favour of deathwatch over normal marines is that they do actually get a chapter tactics equivalent, in their reroll 1s to wound thing. So SIA is a bonus on top of that - at the princely sum of 1ppm.

Or for 2ppm you can get a SIA storm bolter. That’s going to force a reassessment of bikes, terminators and maybe even normal deathwatch vets. They would still be glass cannons compared to intercessors, and more points apparently, but the extra shots would be great.

I too think Reivers are finally going to be really nice, when in DW. They've been utterly uninspiring up til now, but that AP on the SIA totally changes the unit. Grapple Reivers with SIA are going to be legit.

I think bolt carbines might be the way to go actually. They get SIA, as do their heavy bolt pistols. It gives you a ton of options. 30” assault 2 with kraken if you need it, for example.

The standard bolt rifle intercessor also looks really good. Vengeance rounds doing ap-3 at 12”, kraken for -2 at 18”, hellfire for tough or unarmoured things. They look like they are going to be great.

Does anyone else feel the first codex pains with vanilla primaris marines? The lack of usable stratagems or relics is really starting to become noticeable now that more armies have their codex, and it's going to become even more apparent since battalions generate more CPs. I normally run Chapter Master since I really don't lose much by doing so, and I'll usually get a couple good Bolter Drills off with a squad of inceptors. Other than that, the reroll strat is really all there is, and space marines reroll almost everything anyway. Granted, I think it's fine that not all armies lean on their stratagems as much as Eldar, but we don't even really have situational stratagems other than Auspex Scan.

Just curious about how everyone else felt and what you guys are spending your CPs on.

DraxiusII wrote:
Does anyone else feel the first codex pains with vanilla primaris marines? The lack of usable stratagems or relics is really starting to become noticeable now that more armies have their codex, and it's going to become even more apparent since battalions generate more CPs. I normally run Chapter Master since I really don't lose much by doing so, and I'll usually get a couple good Bolter Drills off with a squad of inceptors. Other than that, the reroll strat is really all there is, and space marines reroll almost everything anyway. Granted, I think it's fine that not all armies lean on their stratagems as much as Eldar, but we don't even really have situational stratagems other than Auspex Scan.

Just curious about how everyone else felt and what you guys are spending your CPs on.

I feel like Codex: SM came out with really strong chapter tactics and relics, but strategems that were soon passed out to almost every other faction in the game. That being said, if its true that DW primaris are almost the same cost as Codex:SM primaris there really won't be a reason to not switch.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

DraxiusII wrote:
Does anyone else feel the first codex pains with vanilla primaris marines? The lack of usable stratagems or relics is really starting to become noticeable now that more armies have their codex, and it's going to become even more apparent since battalions generate more CPs. I normally run Chapter Master since I really don't lose much by doing so, and I'll usually get a couple good Bolter Drills off with a squad of inceptors. Other than that, the reroll strat is really all there is, and space marines reroll almost everything anyway. Granted, I think it's fine that not all armies lean on their stratagems as much as Eldar, but we don't even really have situational stratagems other than Auspex Scan.

Just curious about how everyone else felt and what you guys are spending your CPs on.

I feel like Codex: SM came out with really strong chapter tactics and relics, but strategems that were soon passed out to almost every other faction in the game. That being said, if its true that DW primaris are almost the same cost as Codex:SM primaris there really won't be a reason to not switch.

That's really my point I suppose. I'm willing to run dark blue deathwatch if they really turn out to be that much better (which is how things are starting to look), it's just a shame that primaris got so little from the marine codex by comparison.

It took gw a while to figure out that intercessors are simply ignored every battle.