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Kroot also work in that same vein as they are often hired as mercenaries.

 adamsouza wrote:
Ulisses other RPG is TORG, which is skill and attribute based, not level based. I'm really hoping that is the direction they take with the new 40K RPG. Other than D&D, I've never found level based RPGs to my liking.

they mentioned a D6 system with a Dicepool etc. so it won't be level absed.

if yoiu've played it think shadowrun

Hard to say much about the focus of the game or the system just yet - there's really very little information out there.

What there is seems to be hard in a good direction though.

We'll have to wait for more official info.

BrianDavion wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Ulisses other RPG is TORG, which is skill and attribute based, not level based. I'm really hoping that is the direction they take with the new 40K RPG. Other than D&D, I've never found level based RPGs to my liking.

they mentioned a D6 system with a Dicepool etc. so it won't be level absed.

if yoiu've played it think shadowrun

That's good news.

TORG was made by West End Games, makers of the original Star Wars RPG, and used something like 2d10, but it had rules in the core book to convert it to WEGs D6 rules. Star Wars D6 by WEG is my all time favorite. It actually still has an active player base after 25+ years. Ulisses mentioned when they got the TORG rights that they were also interested in putting out new WEG D6 based RPG material.

If the 40K RPG is based on the similar core rules to Star Wars, D6 Fantasy, D6 Space, or D6 Fantasy, it would be very easy to create all the 40K player races. If you've ever played the WEG Star Wars game, it had hundred of playable races.

I love WEG's D6 system, and while I think it would work for street level DH type stuff, I don't think it's suited to Space Marines and the like.

I get the sense that apart from a couple of posters here, I'm in the minority in really liking the fact the previous 40K games were all split into different lines:

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind that splitting it wasn't a bad thing anyway. as a GM it was kinda nice in that if I wanted to run dark heresy I didn't have to deal with someone insisting on playing a space marine

This. I only ever ran DH1, DW and BC - it was easy to set the narrative based on cohesive parties. Yes the systems were broken - BC was the best and was easily adaptable. The rules were many but they were simple, so it was easy to houserule anything you wanted.

A more pressing issue is that "Wrath & Glory" is a terrible title.

Caliginous wrote:
I love WEG's D6 system, and while I think it would work for street level DH type stuff, I don't think it's suited to Space Marines and the like.

May I ask why you would think that ?

Having played several heavily armed and armored Bounty Hunters over the years, I think Adeptus Astartes would work well.

I get the sense that apart from a couple of posters here, I'm in the minority in really liking the fact the previous 40K games were all split into different lines:

That was a decision that infuriated my gaming group. It was akin to D&D saying we know how much you love our setting, so here is our first game where you can only play Thieves, Wizards, and Clerics. If you want to play Barbarians, fighters, and monks wait a year for our next RpG. Warlocks you say ? 2-3 years from now, if we're still making money, we'll include them in a third game.

Give us the ability to play what we want, and let the Game Master and players decide who to play.

Don't get me wrong, an Ork, Space Marines from 2 different chapters, an Eldar, and an Inquisitor in the same group would be bizzare, or even heretical, but it should be up to the Game Master to say what's a good fit.

The gunfights in SWD6 were like the films and very cinematic - short, sharp, brutal. If you got hit, you got hit bad. half of combat was spent picking up your fallen party members and shoving their incapacitated bodies into cover, using med-packs and praying that that wild die wasn't going to come up with a 1 right now as you finally have a free action to fire off a shot at the bastard behind the cantina booth...doesn't seem very space mariney to me, but I've never tried mixing the systems. Also, as much as I love the system, it's hand to hand rules were flawed - light sabre combat was kinda stupid, but I haven't read D6 Space or Fantasy, the rules might have been revised.

As for the seperate lines thing, all I can do is reiterate - as a GM I loved the party coherency it created. I think there was easily enough variety to appease everyone, but Only War did seem a little restrictive to me. I bought the book but it just didn't strike me as very fun, but others swear by it. DW was designed to be a power-game, which made sense to me.

BrianDavion wrote:
TORG was made by West End Games, makers of the original Star Wars RPG, and used something like 2d10, but it had rules in the core book to convert it to WEGs D6 rules.

TORG used d20. I still have two eternium dice.

It's anyone here going to be at GenCon?

I'd love to get a rundown on Ross' seminar on the new game.

 Witchfinder General wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
TORG was made by West End Games, makers of the original Star Wars RPG, and used something like 2d10, but it had rules in the core book to convert it to WEGs D6 rules.

TORG used d20. I still have two eternium dice.

think you misquoted there

Caliginous wrote:
I love WEG's D6 system, and while I think it would work for street level DH type stuff, I don't think it's suited to Space Marines and the like.

I get the sense that apart from a couple of posters here, I'm in the minority in really liking the fact the previous 40K games were all split into different lines:

I liked the focus as well. Less dealing with that one special snowflake who will ramble on until your ears drop off about how yes, it's a low-key inquisitorial acolyte game that's about espionage and socialising, but his Plague Marine could totally work if you were a GOOD GM.

The other thing is that having a single game that covers a wide range of power levels is damn hard. Many systems have tried and failed. Either the low-powered characters feel bland and samey for a lack of options, or something breaks at higher levels.

I liked the focus as well. Less dealing with that one special snowflake who will ramble on until your ears drop off about how yes, it's a low-key inquisitorial acolyte game that's about espionage and socialising, but his Plague Marine could totally work if you were a GOOD GM.

Haha, oh gawd yes, a million times yes.

The other thing is that having a single game that covers a wide range of power levels is damn hard. Many systems have tried and failed. Either the low-powered characters feel bland and samey for a lack of options, or something breaks at higher levels.

...except Rifts©®™ though, right? :/

Don't know about the system, but the fact we can play xenos on the get go seems pretty cool to me!

Hmmm. Hopefully the switch to a die pool system means we'll see a radical change from the old "start at a 30-40% chance to hit then start tallying the bonuses and penalties" style of the old system. The WHFRP system backbone the old games were built on was good for dark, hardscrabble fantasy in not-Late-Medieval-Europe, but not so good for grimdark adventuring in a sci-fi Medieval society with plasma pistols and chainswords.

I also hope there will be a better, simplified system for statting and running NPCs. When your published adventure stat blocs for NPCs contain 4-8 lines of Talents the GM is expected to just know what they do, you're at the cutting edge of 1998 RPG design.

If as speculated, Necromunda comes with floorplans, sounds like a good way to help people visualise their environment during combat?

Not some unholy RPG/TTWG hybrid, just 'right, corridors look like this on your dataslate map. You're here. Off you pop'.

BTW, I've been told that Ulisses will be releasing a YouTube video of Ross' presentation at GenCon.

I really hope this has full miniature based combat support like D&D. I am under the impression that the Dark Heresy roleplay books was soley focused on "theatre of mind" play? Correct me if I am wrong. :-)

Dark Heresy and the like had a little box with some guidelines on using minis, but that was it really.

 Bottle wrote:
I really hope this has full miniature based combat support like D&D. I am under the impression that the Dark Heresy roleplay books was soley focused on "theatre of mind" play? Correct me if I am wrong. :-)

Soley? No, not in my experience. We always used minis but using the movement stats exactly translated into inches or squares/hexes wasn't great either. We ended up going with a mix where the distances between models wasn't exact but rather just a relative comparison.

 Bottle wrote:
I am under the impression that the Dark Heresy roleplay books was soley focused on "theatre of mind" play? Correct me if I am wrong. :-)

You could do it however you liked. We played with maps/tiles/terrain and miniatures all the time in our games.

From Ulisses first Wrath & Glory email:

"If you are coming to Gen Con, make sure to stop at one of our booths! We will be distributing a free preview pamphlet for Wrath & Glory that goes into a little more detail about our plans for the product line. You may also want to attend our seminar at noon on Saturday."

I have the opposite hopes; miniatures-based games are quite difficult to use unless you're face to face. Most of my current roleplay partners are far enough away that the only reasonable way to get face to face is to take a flight, which is itself unreasonable for a night of roleplaying especially for my British friends.

Which is the problem I had with DnD 4th before fantasy grounds came out and made it easier.

 Melissia wrote:
I have the opposite hopes; miniatures-based games are quite difficult to use unless you're face to face. Most of my current roleplay partners are far enough away that the only reasonable way to get face to face is to take a flight, which is itself unreasonable for a night of roleplaying especially for my British friends.

I've played both with and without miniatures. There're pros and cons to both. In my mind a good RPG should be able to support both styles of play.

BrianDavion wrote:

keep in mind the D&D caomparison is just one he's using for ease of referance. eveyrone knows what D&D is character levels are etc.

MECHANICLY the game looks to have more in common with say... shadowrun then D&D

Actually, Class and Level suits 40K very well. And unlike D&D saying you're a 7th Level Assassin wouldn't sound weird in game. That said...

The mention of Shadowrun makes me think of trolls. Marines aren't that physically different to trolls from SR, so it shouldn't be impossible to have a Marine stand next to an Eldar and rage against the dying of the light. (This assumes you don't believe the Imperial hype about Marines that has never been supported in the tabletop game. TL;DR: Don't believe the Marine hype.)

Dice pool could also mean 3d6 and add. Just saying'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If as speculated, Necromunda comes with floorplans, sounds like a good way to help people visualise their environment during combat?

Not some unholy RPG/TTWG hybrid, just 'right, corridors look like this on your dataslate map. You're here. Off you pop'.

Would work well with the index card method. Throw down room tile and link it to other tiles with a Close/Short/Long range bands.

Chairman Aeon wrote:

The mention of Shadowrun makes me think of trolls. Marines aren't that physically different to trolls from SR, so it shouldn't be impossible to have a Marine stand next to an Eldar and rage against the dying of the light. (This assumes you don't believe the Imperial hype about Marines that has never been supported in the tabletop game. TL;DR: Don't believe the Marine hype.)

Yeah, that would be a big assumption given it's an RPG and based on the background supported in the novels and codex entries. The problem isn't so much marines and eldar as it is marines and humans. Marines are obviously bigger, tougher, quicker, and stronger than any human could ever hope to be without serious mutation or mechanical augmentation. They're also much smarter and mentally more resilent than the average human (although still in those stats within possible parameters) due to the weeding out process in selecting marine aspirants. In effect, they have no RPG "dump stats" to allow them to easily incorporate into a game with "normal" humans.

 warboss wrote:

Chairman Aeon wrote:

The mention of Shadowrun makes me think of trolls. Marines aren't that physically different to trolls from SR, so it shouldn't be impossible to have a Marine stand next to an Eldar and rage against the dying of the light. (This assumes you don't believe the Imperial hype about Marines that has never been supported in the tabletop game. TL;DR: Don't believe the Marine hype.)

Yeah, that would be a big assumption given it's an RPG and based on the background supported in the novels and codex entries. The problem isn't so much marines and eldar as it is marines and humans. Marines are obviously bigger, tougher, quicker, and stronger than any human could ever hope to be without serious mutation or mechanical augmentation. They're also much smarter and mentally more resilent than the average human (although still in those stats within possible parameters) due to the weeding out process in selecting marine aspirants. In effect, they have no RPG "dump stats" to allow them to easily incorporate into a game with "normal" humans.

The balancing wouldn't and shouldn't be in raw stats. A Marine is less suitable for an investigative type campaign because their stats and skills are combat orientated. If the solution is NOT to go in blasting, then the Marine is not more overpowered, and if the Marine lacks those political and investigative skills that the normal humans have, they may even be at a disadvantage. Marines are like the archetypal D&D paladin class. A Marine deviating too sharply from their Chapter's ideals is basically at risk of turning renegade (even if they justify it to themselves). A Marine that just goes around clobbering everyone in human society that gets in their way may attract the rest of the Imperium's unwelcome attention.

The problem is the GM enforcing these "softer" restrictions. Too much and it becomes a form of straitjacket or railroading. Too little and the restrictions are not really restrictions and the Marine is overpowered.

Iracundus wrote:

 warboss wrote:

Chairman Aeon wrote:

The mention of Shadowrun makes me think of trolls. Marines aren't that physically different to trolls from SR, so it shouldn't be impossible to have a Marine stand next to an Eldar and rage against the dying of the light. (This assumes you don't believe the Imperial hype about Marines that has never been supported in the tabletop game. TL;DR: Don't believe the Marine hype.)

Yeah, that would be a big assumption given it's an RPG and based on the background supported in the novels and codex entries. The problem isn't so much marines and eldar as it is marines and humans. Marines are obviously bigger, tougher, quicker, and stronger than any human could ever hope to be without serious mutation or mechanical augmentation. They're also much smarter and mentally more resilent than the average human (although still in those stats within possible parameters) due to the weeding out process in selecting marine aspirants. In effect, they have no RPG "dump stats" to allow them to easily incorporate into a game with "normal" humans.

The balancing wouldn't and shouldn't be in raw stats. A Marine is less suitable for an investigative type campaign because their stats and skills are combat orientated. If the solution is NOT to go in blasting, then the Marine is not more overpowered, and if the Marine lacks those political and investigative skills that the normal humans have, they may even be at a disadvantage. Marines are like the archetypal D&D paladin class. A Marine deviating too sharply from their Chapter's ideals is basically at risk of turning renegade (even if they justify it to themselves). A Marine that just goes around clobbering everyone in human society that gets in their way may attract the rest of the Imperium's unwelcome attention.

The problem is the GM enforcing these "softer" restrictions. Too much and it becomes a form of straitjacket or railroading. Too little and the restrictions are not really restrictions and the Marine is overpowered.

And also, as Gunner Jurgen has adequately shown multiple times throughout Ciaphas Cain's career, an astartes dies just as much to a meltagun to the chest as anyone else.

Normal humans can have easier access to heavy firepower than marine characters as they don't need to find marine specific versions. A marine couldn't even fit their fingers into the trigger guard of a weapon designed for normal human hands and if they are operating away from an easy source of space marine supplies then finding weapons designed for them will be tricky.

While commenting this news with a friend, he raised a valid point: now that the company working on it is German, we might see meters, kilos and celsius! yay!

 Vector Strike wrote:
While commenting this news with a friend, he raised a valid point: now that the company working on it is German, we might see meters, kilos and celsius! yay!

The 40K RPGs already had metres and kilograms.

 Vector Strike wrote:
While commenting this news with a friend, he raised a valid point: now that the company working on it is German, we might see meters, kilos and celsius! yay!

Heresy!

Rods and cubits or GTF off!