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Souljet wrote:
Eh, they pretty much did it with Shadow War. I guess it depends on what budget and market they wanted to cater for.

That's kind of the point though. A lot of Necromunda fans already bought that scenery. Why make them buy it again?
There are now two ways to play which extends the playability for me. The box also became a very cheap alternative to zone mortalis boards.

w00t, finally a release date for Index: Shadow War Terrain

Souljet wrote:
Eh, they pretty much did it with Shadow War. I guess it depends on what budget and market they wanted to cater for.

They did but that was

a) a limited box set
b) accompanied by old, OLD sprues of little men

Basically it was specifically designed to introduce the terrain. I wouldn't be surprised if they made the terrain first then thought "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we had a game to go with this? How about those old 'munda rules huh?"

Fortunately for Specialist Games this meant they now had a viable way to release an actual Necromunda, since they apparently don't have the resources to make plastic terrain themselves.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also, anyone know how to paint a ripped stockings effect on a face?

Something like this? I'd use skin tone + black for the stockings, skin tone for the holes, and skin tone + more black for the bits where the ripped stocking is hanging down.

Chikout wrote:

Souljet wrote:
Eh, they pretty much did it with Shadow War. I guess it depends on what budget and market they wanted to cater for.

That's kind of the point though. A lot of Necromunda fans already bought that scenery. Why make them buy it again?
There are now two ways to play which extends the playability for me. The box also became a very cheap alternative to zone mortalis boards.

I would have loved a Shadow War type box version 2.0 and would have eagerly snapped up a couple like I did with Shadow War. Would have been happy to pay more as well.
Happy that this set works for you though. Lets just hope the box actually is a very cheap alternative.

 Mymearan wrote:

Souljet wrote:
Eh, they pretty much did it with Shadow War. I guess it depends on what budget and market they wanted to cater for.

They did but that was

a) a limited box set
b) accompanied by old, OLD sprues of little men

Basically it was specifically designed to introduce the terrain. I wouldn't be surprised if they made the terrain first then thought "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if we had a game to go with this? How about those old 'munda rules huh?"

Fortunately for Specialist Games this meant they now had a viable way to release an actual Necromunda, since they apparently don't have the resources to make plastic terrain themselves.

Fair enough but as mentioned above, I would have happily paid more if it meant I got actual terrain. The Shadow War box in Aus was $220. If they basically did the same but included the new gang sculpts I would have eagerly handed over $250-300.
It's the fact that they did a Shadow War box anyway that sets the precedent of doing the same with Necromunda. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to half expect similar contents.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy for the people that are going to enjoy this box set. I will just have to hope there's a separate rule set to buy individually unless the box is cheaper than expected.

Souljet wrote:
Eh, they pretty much did it with Shadow War. I guess it depends on what budget and market they wanted to cater for.

Shadow War contained 5 ancient plastic scouts plus 10 ancient plastic orks, meaning they cost GW basically nothing and still the box could only fit about a sixth the amount of terrain you'd need for a standard game of Necromunda within GW's limits of generosity. It doesn't even come close.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Souljet wrote:
Eh, they pretty much did it with Shadow War. I guess it depends on what budget and market they wanted to cater for.

Shadow War contained 5 ancient plastic scouts plus 10 ancient plastic orks, meaning they cost GW basically nothing and still the box could only fit about a sixth the amount of terrain you'd need for a standard game of Necromunda within GW's limits of generosity. It doesn't even come close.

It was 10 scouts and 11 orks but read my replies above

Oh look, all my info was correct! :-)

Thought that video was great and I really can't wait for this game to come out.

Quite happy about the contents of the box as it will make it easier to start playing the game from my point of view. If they bring out rules later for using more 3D terrain then I think everyone gets what they want.

Steve

On the community site there's a picture with 9 board sections. The promo pic appears to have 7, with each piece being 6x6. I haven't se3n any mention of them being double sided however, but even so there's probably a lot of diversity even in 7.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Yeah I'm not getting the issue with the box contents. They're making the best use of available resources, tunnel-fighting tilesets is a reasonable option. Anyone who was expecting the box to include two full plastic multipart gangs, and the rules, and all the play aids, AND an even vaguely playable set of plastic terrain was simply kidding themselves on.

Good point. It's not as if the original Necromunda box contained two full plastic gangs, full rules, all the play aids and a playable set of terrain.

Oh wait, it totally did.

Now really, I don't think anyone was expecting the set to come with a huge amount of terrain. But shifting the game from "3D multi level terrain" to "flat board game tiles with a few doors and barricades and rules for full terrain in a separate book" is an enormous difference and does raise several concerns. Are the new rules more board game focused and closer to something like Space Hulk? Are rules for full traditional terrain actually a part of the core rules or an afterthought? Is standard Necromunda play going to shift from traditional full 3D terrain to 2D game boards? Will the book with additional rules be expensive? Will it be widely available?

Flat board tiles doesn't have to be a bad thing at all, but its not hard to understand why people are less than happy about it. It's a huge departure from the Necromunda of the past. It may end up being not a big deal at all, but it may also be the first sign that this version of the game is very different from whats come in the past.

I suspect that they decided to use tiles as a cheap way to make the game playable out of the box without any real terrain and and more appealing for the board game market. And thats fine. But GW should know that the terrain was a HUGE part of what made Necromunda exciting and novel for a lot of people, and removing that aspect of the game, even if its just relegated to a separate rule book, is a pretty big deal. It's not surprising at all that some people would be concerned.

And no, I don't think expecting some plastic terrain in the box was unreasonable. I don't think anyone seriously thought we'd get a full table's worth, but it's not as if Shadow War Armageddon didn't come with a chunk of terrain (as well as two "gangs, rules and play aids), and it was mentioned that they might reuse that terrain for Necromunda.

Is it me or the rulebook seem rather thin........

It didn't contain two plastic gangs in this sense and didn't have enough terrain for a proper game.

Now they are giving you plastic gangs in the proper sense and a fully playable game right out of the box, which is obviously going to be a better thing to try and sell to people with no history of playing Necromunda.

We are just getting an ADDITIONAL way to play. Terrain is still separately available and the rules for a true Necromunda game are there too.

This is good news to wake up to.

I never liked the aesthetics of Necromunda (and the new minis haven't changed that) - but that trailer was excellent. Easily the best one GW has ever done (that I've seen at least).

Chikout wrote:
That's kind of the point though. A lot of Necromunda fans already bought that scenery. Why make them buy it again?

So they can have more scenery?

I may be just a tiny bit biased here, but why is more scenery a bad thing?

I should start a terrain blog...

Chikout wrote:
There are now two ways to play which extends the playability for me. The box also became a very cheap alternative to zone mortalis boards.

That's the great thing. Two main methods of playing Necromunda is fantastic, and board sections like these (again, putting aside the slight minor bias I have towards all things tiles) are a great way to get people into the game quickly. I know already that I want two sets of those tiles.

xerxeshavelock wrote:
I haven't se3n any mention of them being double sided however...

I hadn't even thought of that!!!

I'm hoping that if they are double sided, the other side gives you a themed open field to place terrain on and the other being the tunnels you see above

 jake wrote:
Good point. It's not as if the original Necromunda box contained two full plastic gangs, full rules, all the play aids and a playable set of terrain.

Oh wait, it totally did.

Yeah, carstock terrain. Don't try and paint this as being anyway similar to this.

Even the miniatures are a world apart, with there being 2 poses per gang, and a scattering of basic weapon options vs full multi-piece plastic gangs.

 jake wrote:
Now really, I don't think anyone was expecting the set to come with a huge amount of terrain. But shifting the game from "3D multi level terrain" to "flat board game tiles with a few doors and barricades and rules for full terrain in a separate book" is an enormous difference and does raise several concerns. Are the new rules more board game focused and closer to something like Space Hulk? Are rules for full traditional terrain actually a part of the core rules or an afterthought? Is standard Necromunda play going to shift from traditional full 3D terrain to 2D game boards? Will the book with additional rules be expensive? Will it be widely available?

The thing is I don't see this as a shift from a 3D to a 2D game. I see this as an expansion of the 3D game to allow for a new way of playing (tunnel fighting, something I'm sure a lot of Necromunda fans toyed with over the years - I know I did... never could quite get it to work). I don't think this is going to be more 'board game' focused. It's going to be Necromunda through and through, with just more ways to play it baked into the core rules. Then we get Deathzone or Deadzone or whatever it's called in BB-style supplements that further expand the game.

 jake wrote:
I suspect that they decided to use tiles as a cheap way to make the game playable out of the box without any real terrain and and more appealing for the board game market. And thats fine. But GW should know that the terrain was a HUGE part of what made Necromunda exciting and novel for a lot of people, and removing that aspect of the game, even if its just relegated to a separate rule book, is a pretty big deal. It's not surprising at all that some people would be concerned.

I suspect that's why there are boards in there as well, and I'm fairly certain that GW know full well how important terrain was to Necromunda. Do you think this'd be happening if the Shadow War stuff was't around?

 jake wrote:
And no, I don't think expecting some plastic terrain in the box was unreasonable. I don't think anyone seriously thought we'd get a full table's worth, but it's not as if Shadow War Armageddon didn't come with a chunk of terrain (as well as two "gangs, rules and play aids), and it was mentioned that they might reuse that terrain for Necromunda.

And it was very expensive, and as you said, you didn't get enough to make a real table. And they had to go ultra cheap on the included gangs (ancient Scout and Ork sprues). And the rules were mostly copypasta'd from Necromunda.

The 2D tiles are certainly a form of compromise, and a way to get the game out more quickly and make it more accessible right out the box, but I don't see this representing a shift for Necromunda. Even in their own promo video and artwork they're using the multi-level terrain. It's going to be all over this game.

If they are anything like the tiles they've released over the past couple years they are probably double sided. Assuming this is the thicker card used in DW overkill. And not that thin cheap stuff from Shadespire...which we haven't seen any evidence of double sides for. Shadespire is gonna be cheaper and doesn't necessarily need double sided tiles, but IMO variety in a visual aspect kind of helps keep things fresh in a way.

Schmapdi wrote:
I never liked the aesthetics of Necromunda (and the new minis haven't changed that) - but that trailer was excellent. Easily the best one GW has ever done (that I've seen at least).

Think the Genestealer Cult video, and Burning of Prospero Thousand Sons are probably my faves.

Schmapdi wrote:
I never liked the aesthetics of Necromunda (and the new minis haven't changed that) - but that trailer was excellent. Easily the best one GW has ever done (that I've seen at least).

Um - Hero Bases (!!1!!!)

For what is essentially boardgame size components and a couple of dozen models the box shown at the end looks big. I'm hoping this means a large sprues with a huge number of different options for the gangers.

Also I didn't see any heavy weapons shown; I'm hoping my tried and tested hose it with Heavy Stubber fire and send in the Juves tactics don't need a revamp. I too old to start thinking new thoughts!

So are the Eschers Red Kangs or Blue Kangs?

I'm massively intrigued by the CL, WP and other new stats.

Whilst I was around for Rogue Trader, that was in it's twilight years. When we went to pick up the rulebook, you couldn't buy it as 2nd Ed was just round the corner.

So despite being well old, I don't really know how those work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Not-not-kenny wrote:
So are the Eschers Red Kangs or Blue Kangs?

Definitely not Yellow Kangs....

runs off to convert homicidal cleaning servitors.

Looks like the "board" tiles might work with the tiles out of Deathwatch Overkill... to extend the board for those interested?

 notprop wrote:
I'm hoping my tried and tested hose it with Heavy Stubber fire and send in the Juves tactics don't need a revamp.

Do you see any Juves in the box?

WholeHazelNuts wrote:
Looks like the "board" tiles might work with the tiles out of Deathwatch Overkill... to extend the board for those interested?

Maybe even Space Hulk....

I have thought about making 3d terrain that matches the Deathwatch: Overkill board sections. This has me more tempted tbh.

The word from my local (and very handy) Redshirt is that it'll probably be released the same weekend as Bloodbowl was last year.
Does anyone have the date for that?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 notprop wrote:
I'm hoping my tried and tested hose it with Heavy Stubber fire and send in the Juves tactics don't need a revamp.

Do you see any Juves in the box?

Original set didn't have Juves in the box :p

But if these are the standard production Gangs (as the Community article seems to heavily imply), then yeah. Where are my obvious juve models?

 theharrower wrote:
Making it a board game and a game that works with scenery is a definite stroke of genius. I didn't expect to see new custom dice. So scatter dice make a return, and what are the other two?

Just a new sustained fire die and an injury die (you can see two "down" and a "dead" symbol in the clip)