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 Red Corsair wrote:

I hope we get our book before the new year!

I'd have hoped so too, but it's looking less and less likely now. :/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/28/christmas-preview-bundles-battleforces-and-boxed-games/

The releases until the end of 2018 look pretty jam packed. They've got 10 Christmas Battleforces to release, Blackstone Fortress, Chapter Approved and more before 2018 is up. The Genestealer Cults codex hasn't been announced yet.

For all previous codexes in the past, they announce them once the previous batch of codexes has hit the shelves - typically the day after. The current "batch", is Space Wolves and Orks. So next weekend, when Orks hit the shelves, GSC will be announced.

In the past there has traditionally been a 50-90 day wait time between the announcement of a codex and its release. That gives us a potential release window from roughly Saturday 22nd of December to Saturday 2nd of February. I expect it will fall somewhere in that window.

I'd have loved to do some 2018 battles with my GSC, but it's looking very certain to me that it won't be happening.

I like the idea of using GSC/Guard as a sort of combination horde. Lots of IG Bodies, lots of GSC bodies, a few key units to delete things, but idk.

I really, really love the Neophyte kit and everything about them, but that's true for all GSC models I suppose.

With Aberrants and Acolytes currently going for $25/5 on eBay, this seems like the best time if any to jump on board, I just can't decide between Neophytes, Acolytes, or Aberrants.

Anyone have Nick Rose' list from So Cal Open? Seems he was making effective use of Abberants. Curious to see what loadout he was using exactly as I plan to build my Tooth and Claw Abberants.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Anyone have Nick Rose' list from So Cal Open? Seems he was making effective use of Abberants. Curious to see what loadout he was using exactly as I plan to build my Tooth and Claw Abberants.

Probably pick and rending claw. They benefit from abomanant exploding sixes over hammers because they have twice the attacks stock.They get the most mileage from nearby buffs and are cheaper. Hammers are OK but very one dimensional and more expensive. The abomanant fills the roll of a hammer unit all his own. He's probably using neos up the wazzoo with abbs as his elite hitting unit. In ITC format GSC is actually pretty strong since they have built in mobility and fearless bodies.

No, it wasn't a giant horde list. It was two big units of Aberrants. A bunch of rippers and Neurothropes, and Kraken Genestealers. There was probably a few units of Neophytes - but small units that I think were running around in Chimeras.

 rollawaythestone wrote:
Anyone have Nick Rose' list from So Cal Open? Seems he was making effective use of Abberants. Curious to see what loadout he was using exactly as I plan to build my Tooth and Claw Abberants.

Cheers!

Man, and he actually used Goliaths?

Love the models, never see them used.

Yea I watched the stream, he played fast and loose in areas of that game against Kenny.


The biggest goof was him using the tyranid Overrun strat on his big stealer blob in his first turn despite not killing a unit, which saved his stealers. He claims he would have fought again, but he wasn't in range to pile in because of how the models were removed. Plus he hadn't declared more then the one unit as a target, so he couldn't attack the other unit.

Kenny was a great sport and they just played on but honestly him losing his stealers turn 1 rather then him recharging the next turn and mulching through another 30 or so cultists is massive.

It was still a decent game, but that error definitely changed the outcome IMO. Without the stealers he loses much of his mobile threat. Abberants are just as killy but WAY slower and currently have zero combat stratagems.



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 Cephalobeard wrote:
Man, and he actually used Goliaths?

Love the models, never see them used.

Goliaths aren't that uncommon, they work well with elite units like abbs riding in them, they also tank overwatch and tie things down decently. If you use armor you need multiple tanks, which he did. More models is definitely better though, but you need to paint and move stupid amounts of guys which has it's own issues at a multi round event.

In Nicks list specifically, he needed the tanks to make a wall for his stealers. Basically he is using kraken stealers so he can charge turn 1, fight twice, with buffs. So he makes a preset semi circle wall in front of them. If your not using a bomb of nid stealers I can't see any point in taking the tanks over more guys.


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Man Nick plays cult ambush sketchy. He doesn't place the unit over 9" then move when he gets a 6, he just deploys them 3.1" away from the start. This is a major no no, the way he was doing it he was fitting into some tight spaces he had no way of getting to in order to snipe out kennys characters. It's really hard to ambush between 3 units fitting over 9" from each when they surround you, he got to Ahriman this way.

It's important to mention because that is something you don't want to get wrong on your opponent.

I didn't watch the game in depth because I was busy all weekend, but intend to watch them both this week. It's a shame some of his mistakes were big game changing ones. Everyone keeps getting those Tyranid stratagems wrong - Overrun in particular.

Nick has been really championing Nids though - he played them on Team America at the ETC and did well with that interesting horde list with Zoanthropes. I like that strategy of using the vehicles to block for the Genestealers for that first turn charge.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I watched the stream, he played fast and loose in areas of that game against Kenny.


The biggest goof was him using the tyranid Overrun strat on his big stealer blob in his first turn despite not killing a unit, which saved his stealers. He claims he would have fought again, but he wasn't in range to pile in because of how the models were removed. Plus he hadn't declared more then the one unit as a target, so he couldn't attack the other unit.

Kenny was a great sport and they just played on but honestly him losing his stealers turn 1 rather then him recharging the next turn and mulching through another 30 or so cultists is massive.

It was still a decent game, but that error definitely changed the outcome IMO. Without the stealers he loses much of his mobile threat. Abberants are just as killy but WAY slower and currently have zero combat stratagems.



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 Cephalobeard wrote:
Man, and he actually used Goliaths?

Love the models, never see them used.

Goliaths aren't that uncommon, they work well with elite units like abbs riding in them, they also tank overwatch and tie things down decently. If you use armor you need multiple tanks, which he did. More models is definitely better though, but you need to paint and move stupid amounts of guys which has it's own issues at a multi round event.

In Nicks list specifically, he needed the tanks to make a wall for his stealers. Basically he is using kraken stealers so he can charge turn 1, fight twice, with buffs. So he makes a preset semi circle wall in front of them. If your not using a bomb of nid stealers I can't see any point in taking the tanks over more guys.


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Man Nick plays cult ambush sketchy. He doesn't place the unit over 9" then move when he gets a 6, he just deploys them 3.1" away from the start. This is a major no no, the way he was doing it he was fitting into some tight spaces he had no way of getting to in order to snipe out kennys characters. It's really hard to ambush between 3 units fitting over 9" from each when they surround you, he got to Ahriman this way.

It's important to mention because that is something you don't want to get wrong on your opponent.

Red I wouldn’t say it’s sketchy, I think you are missing context or a couple of pieces.

1. You were right about over run and I did misplay it. That is on me, when I was told, I brought it up with Kenny in what he wanted to do. I would of taken whatever was needed. The only thing that we discussed was I could of piled in more to still swing on the same unit and the fight twice. That was the discussion but then couldn’t over run. Kenny's decided it woulda of been better off and we go from there. I don’t know what Incoukd do better then that as I made a mistake there and as soon as I was informed I brought it up with Kenny.

As for the stealers they didn’t mulch through the cultist , the abberants did and killed them all before the stealers could swing. Now they did go into the prince and get wrapped there. So that could of caused the change of the game, which you are right.

2. This one I think needs more context. There is a lot of measuring that is done before hand, and I have to roll my result first otherwise it can be a 1 or a 2 and I have to be on a board edge. We measured all the 9 inch spaces and since he doesn’t have any interactions then move forward because the result was a 6. Which means if I start from the 9 inches I am there. What you saw was me start from inside the building moving towards that. If there was action or I get a 5, usually place and the roll because you have to commit. I can see the concern but there are cases where it’s okay because it speeds it up and there are cases were yes, you should be careful and measure correctly depending on what goes on.

If people are using cult ambush you have to really figure out when to go fast because it can take up a lot of time.as for the list, I wouldn’t say the list I had was good nor should be considered. It was models in what I wanted to play with and haven’t played with before. Have to wait for chapter approve and go from there. I am sure I made mistakes on other places but wouldn’t be intentional.

Respect that response.

Darkwynn wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yea I watched the stream, he played fast and loose in areas of that game against Kenny.


The biggest goof was him using the tyranid Overrun strat on his big stealer blob in his first turn despite not killing a unit, which saved his stealers. He claims he would have fought again, but he wasn't in range to pile in because of how the models were removed. Plus he hadn't declared more then the one unit as a target, so he couldn't attack the other unit.

Kenny was a great sport and they just played on but honestly him losing his stealers turn 1 rather then him recharging the next turn and mulching through another 30 or so cultists is massive.

It was still a decent game, but that error definitely changed the outcome IMO. Without the stealers he loses much of his mobile threat. Abberants are just as killy but WAY slower and currently have zero combat stratagems.



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 Cephalobeard wrote:
Man, and he actually used Goliaths?

Love the models, never see them used.

Goliaths aren't that uncommon, they work well with elite units like abbs riding in them, they also tank overwatch and tie things down decently. If you use armor you need multiple tanks, which he did. More models is definitely better though, but you need to paint and move stupid amounts of guys which has it's own issues at a multi round event.

In Nicks list specifically, he needed the tanks to make a wall for his stealers. Basically he is using kraken stealers so he can charge turn 1, fight twice, with buffs. So he makes a preset semi circle wall in front of them. If your not using a bomb of nid stealers I can't see any point in taking the tanks over more guys.


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Man Nick plays cult ambush sketchy. He doesn't place the unit over 9" then move when he gets a 6, he just deploys them 3.1" away from the start. This is a major no no, the way he was doing it he was fitting into some tight spaces he had no way of getting to in order to snipe out kennys characters. It's really hard to ambush between 3 units fitting over 9" from each when they surround you, he got to Ahriman this way.

It's important to mention because that is something you don't want to get wrong on your opponent.

Red I wouldn’t say it’s sketchy, I think you are missing context or a couple of pieces.

1. You were right about over run and I did misplay it. That is on me, when I was told, I brought it up with Kenny in what he wanted to do. I would of taken whatever was needed. The only thing that we discussed was I could of piled in more to still swing on the same unit and the fight twice. That was the discussion but then couldn’t over run. Kenny's decided it woulda of been better off and we go from there. I don’t know what Incoukd do better then that as I made a mistake there and as soon as I was informed I brought it up with Kenny.

As for the stealers they didn’t mulch through the cultist , the abberants did and killed them all before the stealers could swing. Now they did go into the prince and get wrapped there. So that could of caused the change of the game, which you are right.

2. This one I think needs more context. There is a lot of measuring that is done before hand, and I have to roll my result first otherwise it can be a 1 or a 2 and I have to be on a board edge. We measured all the 9 inch spaces and since he doesn’t have any interactions then move forward because the result was a 6. Which means if I start from the 9 inches I am there. What you saw was me start from inside the building moving towards that. If there was action or I get a 5, usually place and the roll because you have to commit. I can see the concern but there are cases where it’s okay because it speeds it up and there are cases were yes, you should be careful and measure correctly depending on what goes on.

If people are using cult ambush you have to really figure out when to go fast because it can take up a lot of time.as for the list, I wouldn’t say the list I had was good nor should be considered. It was models in what I wanted to play with and haven’t played with before. Have to wait for chapter approve and go from there. I am sure I made mistakes on other places but wouldn’t be intentional.

1. Good on you for owning the mistake. Much repsect I disagree on your prediction of the events, had you played the strat correct. The fight again wouldn't have been as inpactful as your claiming since he pulled casualties so you were several inches away from the units remnants. You have to pile into the closest model even on fighting again strats, and unless I missed something you hadn't declared the second cultist unit. Even if you had, losing all your stealers in his turn for a handful of cultists is a very bad trade. You decided to play on from what was done though, so I won't condemn you for it or anything silly and dramatic, but it definitely puts an asterisk by the win for me at least. BTW really clever idea using the tank wall and hive fleet stealers to circumvent the ambush nerf.

2. I wasn't as bothered by the unit in the building as much as the 3rd aberrant unit that ambushed. If you look at the replay you can see that between the prince in the center, Ahriman behind, the tzangors and finally the cultists in the building to the left, your never fitting 6 32mm bases where you did if you ambushed in the correct order of operations. Your best bet was on his back line behind the yellow crate, which would have gotten you closer to Ahriman, but not the prince. Not sure it impacted the game much, but as this is a learning thread I felt it necessary to point out that the order really does matter and is easy to forget in the moment when your saving time like you were.

I apologize for saying sketchy, I definitely chose a poor word there and meant sloppy. I definitely think most of the errors or inaccuracy was do to playing on a timed event and trying to be faster. I remember thinking "I" would feel sketchy playing it like that which is probably why I typed it out that way.

As for sloppy on the last part on the 3rd one, I think you are right. At that point of the game we’re trying to go through and Finish the game, I think we were both down to 30 mins left and the game was mostly over already after the big abberants wave came in.


As for number one, I can see the point but that is why I put it in Kenny’s hands in what he wanted to do because we went on so far ahead but i had to bring it up.

Darkwynn, are you liking the Abberants with picks? I am thinking about how I want to build my unit from Tooth and Claw, and whether to pick up another set from ebay.

Darkwynn wrote:
As for sloppy on the last part on the 3rd one, I think you are right. At that point of the game we’re trying to go through and Finish the game, I think we were both down to 30 mins left and the game was mostly over already after the big abberants wave came in.


As for number one, I can see the point but that is why I put it in Kenny’s hands in what he wanted to do because we went on so far ahead but i had to bring it up.

Again, much respect for how you handled it. You clearly made an honest mistake and were trying to do what little you can at that point. Just trying to use the game footage as a learning tool, which btw it wouldn't be worth anything if you weren't doing good things


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 rollawaythestone wrote:
Darkwynn, are you liking the Abberants with picks? I am thinking about how I want to build my unit from Tooth and Claw, and whether to pick up another set from ebay.

I am not Darkwynn, but I own 10 of each type and I find myself wanting the picks more often then the hammers. That doesn't mean hammers are trash, they are just much more niche as a tool. The picks are good vs everything, hammers really only excel for my vs high toughness multiwound targets without invulns. I'll also add the abomanant pretty much does what a hammer unit will do for much less and he synergizes better with picks. He sucks verse big units, but the picks excel there. They get more explodes since it works with the rending claw as well. I find he solos most tanks so him and hammers is usually mucho overkill lol.

 Red Corsair wrote:

I am not Darkwynn, but I own 10 of each type and I find myself wanting the picks more often then the hammers. That doesn't mean hammers are trash, they are just much more niche as a tool. The picks are good vs everything, hammers really only excel for my vs high toughness multiwound targets without invulns.

Which weapon do you prefer on the Hypermorph?

I agree with Corsair on the picks. I only equipped the hyper morph with a hammer and that is it. I can’t see doing more but we really have to wait for the codex.

Picks just do so much work

 rollawaythestone wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

I am not Darkwynn, but I own 10 of each type and I find myself wanting the picks more often then the hammers. That doesn't mean hammers are trash, they are just much more niche as a tool. The picks are good vs everything, hammers really only excel for my vs high toughness multiwound targets without invulns.

Which weapon do you prefer on the Hypermorph?

Stop sign lol. Looks way too cool and is cheaper. Getting double hits helps with unwieldy.


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Darkwynn wrote:
I agree with Corsair on the picks. I only equipped the hyper morph with a hammer and that is it. I can’t see doing more but we really have to wait for the codex.

Picks just do so much work

Yea right now the math says picks, but I am sure the book will entice us with both. That said I take the stop sign where I can because I can't not build killer croc

I do like running one hammer Incase you go into knights or into a character the 3D helps out a lot and ensures it goes through. I do have one stop sign guy as a sweeper which worked out real well.

I think I want to run more aberrant characters at least another one but the list is so bloated on points.

Aberrants just seem so good, but there's this part of me that wants to believe the "leaks" where Acolytes get much, much cheaper.

Would that make them viable? Is there an opinion on that?

I already have 1 Abominant, 4xpicks, 4xhammer, 1 hypermorph with sign but I just checked ebay and damn, you can get aberrants for only $25 and an abominant for $15 ... that seems so cheap to me for those kits! I really would like another box of aberrants so I can mix and match a bit more. Thoughts?

Based on my understanding it seems picking up 2-3 sets of those Aberrants is a no brainer currently for GSC folks.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Based on my understanding it seems picking up 2-3 sets of those Aberrants is a no brainer currently for GSC folks.

Considering it's our only source currently for Abberants and GW failed to release the Deathwatch Abberants in their own kit....I'm picking up at least 2 sets (my first 5 are almost finished being painted, and I want at least 5 more to have enough to make a unit of pick, hammers or 10 with picks and hammers).

And the Hypermorph with the stop sign all the way. The sign is just too good to leave off the table.

If my other army sale goes through I'm likely going to get 2 Abominants and 4 sets of Aberrants, for sure. As Darkwynn suggested, maybe 1-2 Hammers, then the rest as claws with a Hypermorph in each squad. Feels good.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
If my other army sale goes through I'm likely going to get 2 Abominants and 4 sets of Aberrants, for sure. As Darkwynn suggested, maybe 1-2 Hammers, then the rest as claws with a Hypermorph in each squad. Feels good.

Yeah, a mixed squad feels the most flexible for a TAC army.

Abberants and abomanants are currently more efficient then none neophyte choices as of now. Expect that to change when other things get point cuts though. Acolytes should go down to at least 8ppm, that makes them a big consideration over much of the elite slots now when your looking at cutting down tough things.

I am not sure metamorphs will ever be viable unfortunately, since they are effectively none troop acolytes and each one is forced into purchasing an upgrade I don't think they need. So use your boxes on acolytes.

If I were starting from scratch I'd be stocking up on acolytes, neophytes and as far as abberants are concerned I'd probably never get more then 20. To start I'd get 10 and buy 3 abomanants before getting more abberants honestly. I have been finding more and more that this army works best using characters for specific tasks. You can hide them in a swarm of neophytes and they are more durable not only from the character rule but with fanatical devotion. Abbomanats do more work and are harder to kill then hammerants for much less. They let your spread a major threat throughout your lines.

The issue GSC always faces is losing steam mid match. I find the list goes on and remains a threat for much longer when I use abomanants and patriarchs as heavy lifters. A sculking patriarch or two in among 30-40 neophytes will keep most units away which works extremely well in missions especially ITC. It's a PITA to remove large fearless neophytes bricks without exposing things to the counter charge from the characters. At 5ppm and cult ambush you should be able to keep the board covered for a long time. Whenever I take too many abberants I find myself having trouble getting them where they want to be without blowing huge amounts of points in my list and while they are tough, they are not nearly as tough as you would think, massed small arms still wrecks them pretty quickly.

So the TLD advice is A+ on Abbs but don't get too carried away with them unless you already have ~100 troops (currently neos are the only decent take but as stated acolytes will definitely get better) and characters are always useful, try to collect 3 of each type except the Iconward.

I also want to add my latest playtesting, I was mentioning a while back at wanting to test ninja purestrain units or only 5 models. In my last few games they were actually amazing. Their speed and small footprint makes them easy to hid going from terrain to terrain feature while they still pose a massive threat from considerable distances. The table matter though, I will note I play on table with a healthy amount of terrain and we use the ITC ruins ruling, this makes them very strong and you can put them in harms way without worrying too much like you would from a large group. I don't think I will take large purestrain units anytime soon, they are just too much of a liability, but the small hit teams have loads of viability for 75 points. An average move of 12" after advancing is a big deal. I still think they are too much at 15ppm but working with what we have they are a good tool I am finding.


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 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
If my other army sale goes through I'm likely going to get 2 Abominants and 4 sets of Aberrants, for sure. As Darkwynn suggested, maybe 1-2 Hammers, then the rest as claws with a Hypermorph in each squad. Feels good.

Yeah, a mixed squad feels the most flexible for a TAC army.

Well, currently picks are always better unfortunately. Whether hitting high toughness, or chaf. The volume of attacks is also better against things with invulns, in other words characters. Each hammer only nets you a single hit, which REALLY hurts the units ability to chew on chaf, something you see everywhere. The improvised weapon I am OK with since it's dirt cheap considering, and you double your hits effectively canceling the unwieldy part, plus he has a tail attack allowing him to pull double duty. I think GW kind of made picks too good now and they should probably drop the cost of the hammer to even, or maybe even the cheaper option since it's so one dimensional. Which very well could happen mind you.

EDIT I should point out hammers do net more damage verse tanks I just find that they are always nearby the abomanant who wants to hit the same thing and picks complement him much better. He is terrible verse infantry lol.

Red Corsair, thank you for the info, I appreciate it. I'm really hoping the Acolyte Hybrids get improved with the codex, just small groups dropping in everywhere from the shadows is what got me into the army. But I'm loving these new aberrant models. I'm still curious about this gunslinger guy we haven't heard anything about yet!

It's great sharing an army with Red Corsair lol, he always has such a strong understanding of the game and writes great explanations of his opinions


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Red Corsair wrote:
I also want to add my latest playtesting, I was mentioning a while back at wanting to test ninja purestrain units or only 5 models. In my last few games they were actually amazing. Their speed and small footprint makes them easy to hid going from terrain to terrain feature while they still pose a massive threat from considerable distances. The table matter though, I will note I play on table with a healthy amount of terrain and we use the ITC ruins ruling, this makes them very strong and you can put them in harms way without worrying too much like you would from a large group. I don't think I will take large purestrain units anytime soon, they are just too much of a liability, but the small hit teams have loads of viability for 75 points. An average move of 12" after advancing is a big deal. I still think they are too much at 15ppm but working with what we have they are a good tool I am finding.

I've actually been doing this with Tyranids too. At least one 5 man unit of Kraken Genestealers, it's easy to keep safe, it's cheaper, even faster usually going 13-14", can advance and charge, is obsec, and can actually push troops off objectives, if it charges a 10 man GEQ squad it can kill them by the time it's your turn again. I'd probably run more but my list doesn't need it, however it's good to have one unit that can. Are you ambushing your 5 mans?

Thanks for the kind words fellas!

Whether or not I CA the ninja stealers really depends on the mission and what terrain is available to me. If the board has a lot of ruins and BLOS pieces I can hide them forward in my deployment then I don't bother CA them. I can always return them to shadows if they end up on an un-needed flank etc. They are so fast, as you mentioned that generally they can be where I would be able to on turn 2 anyway only I am not trusting on an ambush roll. That said, in hammer and anvil I would probably reserve a unit but honestly they scare the
crap out of people just by being near an objective because they are so fast and still hit hard. I find opponents waste more resources then I paid for trying to get rid of them, or they just concede a portion of table to me which I am happy with.

Kraken stealers are amazing, your totally right on that. If I wanted a pair of neuothropes I'd just run them as allies. Currently I am running to many GSC HQ's though, I don't really want for more.