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I'll recognize that there was some artistic license with these illustrations, but all the models shown where clearly distinguishable and kept the general form and all the importants details. The drawing of the Nexos, will being more stocky than the model even retains the scratching on the Aquila.

We do know that there will be others unseen models, and nothing says that the Aberrants/genestealers are not a new unit, and the general shape of the vehicle has nothing to do with the Goliath: no side turret, centered main gun, different shape for the car hood, emplacement for a neophyte on the left, bigger wheels, etc.

The drawing may have some differences with the actual models, but retains all the importants details and general shape. So i definitely cannot imagine this thing not to be a new vehicle for the Cults. And furthermore, it also seems way bigger than what we do have for now.

Araablane wrote:
Question about rules, does Bestial Vigour lower the damage from Smites also?

No, it isn't a damage roll it is just lost wounds.


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GunSmith wrote:
I'll recognize that there was some artistic license with these illustrations, but all the models shown where clearly distinguishable and kept the general form and all the importants details. The drawing of the Nexos, will being more stocky than the model even retains the scratching on the Aquila.

We do know that there will be others unseen models, and nothing says that the Aberrants/genestealers are not a new unit, and the general shape of the vehicle has nothing to do with the Goliath: no side turret, centered main gun, different shape for the car hood, emplacement for a neophyte on the left, bigger wheels, etc.

The drawing may have some differences with the actual models, but retains all the importants details and general shape. So i definitely cannot imagine this thing not to be a new vehicle for the Cults. And furthermore, it also seems way bigger than what we do have for now.

The lady magus looks nothing like the one in the video so I am not sure I trust that set of art for any solid proof.

Per the GSC Facebook group

(cult ambush): "It's been completely overhauled. Essentially, you get a number of "blip tokens" (which are included with the codex) equal to the number of units you have in Cult Ambush reserves, plus one spare token for every two units in reserves (to use as "decoy tokens". After both sides have finished deploying, you get to place your tokens down anywhere on the board that is more than 9" from enemy units. At the end of any of your movement phases (including first turn) you may flip over a blip token to reveal a unit in cult ambush reserves (you choose which one, if any, appears there - if nothing appears there it's one of your "decoy" tokens). They must also be flipped if an enemy unit goes within 9" of a blip token. There are a number of mechanics that allow you to place more blip tokens down and move them."

"There are NO named characters, sadly"

"If an enemy unit moves within 9" of them, you place down the GSC unit as close as possible to the blip token.

So if a guard squad advances onto the token and surrounds it, you then place the GSC unit as close as possible (but outside of 1" of enemy units. If they move to 3" away from it, you just place it down on the token (but outside of 1" of enemy units). One model from the unit must be centered on the token if possible."

>Any confirmation of a new vehicle like a buggy being added? Not the quadbike or bikes but something akin to the goliath but smaller?
"Yes, it's a Goliath variant with fewer weapons, an open topped transport bed, that moves significantly faster (i.e. 14" rather than 10". It has a lower body as well. Apparently it was seen in an earlier trailer, but I've not seen that yet."

(faction traits) "
> One is catachan (but all models get to reroll one dice with random weapons, rather than just vehicles)
> One is Kronos.
> One is jormagordr.
> One gives 6+ fnp.
> One allows reroll charges and +1 Str on the charge if you roll more than 10" on the charge move
> The last one makes heavy weapons assault and you ignore penalties for moving and firing assault weapons.

They didn't seem too great to me."

(relics that stand out) "There's a cool one that allows for 10 shots at 18" range. It's called "Staff of the Subterran Master", and does 10 shots at S2, it has AP-1 (but -4 on 6+ to wound), and enemy units don't gain cover vs. its attacks. It's only for Magi though."

(best warlord trait) "There's one that prevents enemy units from firing overwatch at your warlord, and you roll 3d6 when charging, drop the lowest. It looks like it's meant to represent the warlord being so fast and agile you can't properly target it.

I like it because you can charge it in, tie up the units you charge and get your squishy guys in, risk free."

(stand out strat) "An agent of vect copy paste for 4CP. Represents the GSC theme of sabotage. It's really representative of pic related."

(what does the guy with the stick do?) "He gives +1 attack to all GENESTEALER CULT infantry within 6" of him. He has a hypermorph tail (I can't see it on the miniature which is confusing, but I must have missed it) and two swords which are S:user AP:0 D:1, but AP-3 on 6+ to wound. He has 3 attacks, hitting on 2+."

(rules for Brood Brothers) "Many guard units are now in the GSC dex (hydras and wyverns for example). Same restrictions as index. The GSC subfactions don't benefit Guard units either. You can't mix transports either (the Cult Chimera being the exception)." "You can't take Tempestus Scions anymore, don't know why. My mate's telling me it's because they didn't have a <REGIMENT> wildcard to swap with BROOD BROTHERS, and already had their regiment selected?"
(baneblades) "It's not as good as the Guard Baneblade, as it lacks their regimental bonuses/stratagems. Nevertheless, the Shadowsword does provide a nice counter to titanic units. It's a shame the Brood Brother bonus of +1Ld does nothing to it."

>Whose the wrangler/medic dude from the trailer? What's his point?
"He's a herder for aberrants, he's not a medic. He just gives them a bonus of your choice at the start of each turn - +2" movement, +1 attack, +1 to their feel no pain or +1 to hit. He's 43pts."

(acolytes points drop?) "Yeah, they're now 7ppm."

(brood brothers stratagems?) "There are a few stratagems for Brood Brother units. The best part about it is that there seems to be a loophole in it.

The stratagem is done at deployment, and you get to place down an extra blip marker, and put any BROOD BROTHER unit into Cult Ambush reserves, to appear at a blip later.

However, it doesn't give any restriction on what can be chosen for this - it doesn't say infantry or non-titanic. So you can Cult Ambush a fething Baneblade. For some reason your opponent couldn't see the Baneblade hiding until it gets within 9" of it.

Expect that to get FAQ'd within a week of release."

(psyker spells) "Psychic Stimulus, which allows you to target a unit within 24", which allows them to reroll advance rolls, they don't suffer penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons or advancing and firing assault weapons, and the unit can charge even if they advanced.

Psionic blast is just smite, but it targets a non-character unit of your choice within 24" and it doesn't do d6MW on an 11+.

Mental onslaught is the last one, it's a leadership roll off, if the opponent loses, they must attack last in the fight phase and take a mortal wound. Every time they lose do another roll off, they lose another mortal wound, this carries on until they beat the roll off."

(patriarch info?) "Yeah, the most interesting is a familiar relic, it allows the Patriarch to know one more psychic power, cast one more, and deny one more psychic power each turn. It's called "The Crouchling"."

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 Fifty wrote:
Imperial Guard have officers in elite slots. I am sure GSC could too.

It's confirmed that all new characters are in the Elite slot

if something isn't confirmed don't say it's confirmed, that's not what that word means

Worth noting, as the person who posted this complained I reposted the info:

They can't verify if it's real and take it with tons of salt.

I never claimed it was true, I'm just sharing the info

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(cult ambush): "It's been completely overhauled. Essentially, you get a number of "blip tokens" (which are included with the codex) equal to the number of units you have in Cult Ambush reserves, plus one spare token for every two units in reserves (to use as "decoy tokens". After both sides have finished deploying, you get to place your tokens down anywhere on the board that is more than 9" from enemy units. At the end of any of your movement phases (including first turn) you may flip over a blip token to reveal a unit in cult ambush reserves (you choose which one, if any, appears there - if nothing appears there it's one of your "decoy" tokens). They must also be flipped if an enemy unit goes within 9" of a blip token. There are a number of mechanics that allow you to place more blip tokens down and move them;

Sounds plausible. Bit more reliable and closer to the feel of the previous version. Have to wonder what will happen with the Primus and Return to Shadows stratagem if such a change is accurate.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

"Yes, it's a Goliath variant with fewer weapons, an open topped transport bed, that moves significantly faster (i.e. 14" rather than 10". It has a lower body as well. Apparently it was seen in an earlier trailer, but I've not seen that yet."

The Goliath truck moves 12'' (Rockgrinder is 10''), so I wouldn't say "significantly" faster. Still, if accurate makes me happy. I love my Trucks and Rockgrinders, so another Rugged Construction hull option works for me.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(faction traits) "
> One is catachan (but all models get to reroll one dice with random weapons, rather than just vehicles)
> One is Kronos.
> One is jormagordr.
> One gives 6+ fnp.
> One allows reroll charges and +1 Str on the charge if you roll more than 10" on the charge move
> The last one makes heavy weapons assault and you ignore penalties for moving and firing assault weapons.

1. Might be Rusted Claw. They could justify higher strength from gold-plated talons and rerolls on random die could correlate with their expertise in demolition work.
2. Probably Hive Cult, since they focus more on the stolen AM side of the army and are described as being more militant.
3. Possibly Cult of the Four Armed Emperor, given they originally infested a great tunnel network. Alternatively could be Sons of Jormungandr if they want to have a direct correlation.
4. Pauper Princes. One of their fluff blurbs was having an uncanny clairvoyance. Ulthewe has a similar trait with similar justification.
6. Not sure.
7. Probably Bladed Cog. They have access to higher quality equipment than the others and possibly cybernetics.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(relics that stand out) "There's a cool one that allows for 10 shots at 18" range. It's called "Staff of the Subterran Master", and does 10 shots at S2, it has AP-1 (but -4 on 6+ to wound), and enemy units don't gain cover vs. its attacks. It's only for Magi though."

That relic was in the 7th edition codex with the same rules more or less. It's supposed to be a staff of office with a Tyranid Warrior carved on top instead, with the ability to summon various critters to fight on behalf of the bearer.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(patriarch info?) "Yeah, the most interesting is a familiar relic, it allows the Patriarch to know one more psychic power, cast one more, and deny one more psychic power each turn. It's called "The Crouchling"."

Likewise, though the Crouchling was available to a Magus as well in 7th.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(acolytes points drop?) "Yeah, they're now 7ppm."

If true, not entirely unexpected but appreciated. Generic Acolytes are 7 ppm in Kill Team which has otherwise kept itself fairly close to standard 40k in unit pricing (wargear is cheaper).

 Cephalobeard wrote:

(brood brothers stratagems?) "There are a few stratagems for Brood Brother units. The best part about it is that there seems to be a loophole in it.

The stratagem is done at deployment, and you get to place down an extra blip marker, and put any BROOD BROTHER unit into Cult Ambush reserves, to appear at a blip later.

However, it doesn't give any restriction on what can be chosen for this - it doesn't say infantry or non-titanic. So you can Cult Ambush a Baneblade. For some reason your opponent couldn't see the Baneblade hiding until it gets within 9" of it.

Expect that to get FAQ'd within a week of release."

I'm not sure if that is a loop-hole per say. One of the old formations allowed something similar (Russes and Chimeras could outflank/scout sentinels cult ambushed).

 Cephalobeard wrote:
(psyker spells) "Psychic Stimulus, which allows you to target a unit within 24", which allows them to reroll advance rolls, they don't suffer penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons or advancing and firing assault weapons, and the unit can charge even if they advanced.

Psionic blast is just smite, but it targets a non-character unit of your choice within 24" and it doesn't do d6MW on an 11+.

Mental onslaught is the last one, it's a leadership roll off, if the opponent loses, they must attack last in the fight phase and take a mortal wound. Every time they lose do another roll off, they lose another mortal wound, this carries on until they beat the roll off.

Basically the same as what the powers did in 7th (save Psionic Blast, but the old version was a small blast which has generally translated into D3 hits so more or less a direct port with mortal wounds replacing the old S5 AP3 profile).

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I have mixed feelings about these. Some seem specific enough (Locus and medic's effects) but others seem a bit much like educated guesses (lot of stuff pulled directly from the 7th edition book). Still, very much appreciated in any case!

Yeah, like I said, tons of salt.

Happy to pass it along while we're waiting for confirmation either way.

if true, hypothetically:



Cult Ambush seems very Space Hulk inspired, and also very cool, and very strong. I like that




Mental Onslaught sounds REALLY abusable with minus-LD mechanics, if there is no cumulative penalty per roll off. Even with Tyranid allies just having a single Jorm Hive Tyrant with the relic flap up and just cast the Horror on the target. First example I thought to look at was vs a Baneblade, gets taken to 6 LD, patriarch has LD 10, minimum roll making it 11. The Baneblade needs to roll a 5+ to match your MINIMUM roll, and you save CP re-roll for the minimum roll, well. It's entirely likely we will see this spell 1-shotting Lord of Wars off the table from full health. And since you can select your psychic powers at the start of the round, it's not even something you need to commit to if there's no suitable target, its just... there if you want it. Seems wild.

Leaks appear fake and from 4chan, per News and Rumors.

in all probability every leak that isn't supported with a screenshot or coming from a source with a track record, is most of the time fake, no matter how in depth it looks.

the blip system being ripped directly from space hulk tactics earlier this year seems kinda suspect.


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its always possible tho

Does anyone have an excel/google docs of the current units and their cost, movements, etc etc?

Arkengate wrote:
Does anyone have an excel/google docs of the current units and their cost, movements, etc etc?

I don't believe such a document could be made without violating Dakka's policy regarding posting direct copies of rules. GSC isn't too hard to memorize though. Almost everything infantry-related is some variation of a GEQ body (main exception being Genestealers and Aberrants) while the vehicles hover around the standard stat-lines for a light-to-mid sized vehicle.

has anyone tried movement trays in 40k with gsc/horde? How'd it go?

The old 7th edition thread saw fairly heavy use of movement trays (example) but with the present edition I haven't found much need for them. The index version of GSC isn't really suitable for horde play as most infantry are too costly to be disposable.

I suppose to swing things back to the subject of tactics while we await more codex news, has anyone played around much with the new specialist detachments? I've not had an opportunity to use them yet. My last few opponents requested no specialist detachments so I have not had an opportunity to get a proper feel for them.

List I'm working on that has the ability to use both.

Total: 1995 points, 14 CP before specialist detachments/field commander usage.

 Strat_N8 wrote:
The old 7th edition thread saw fairly heavy use of movement trays (example) but with the present edition I haven't found much need for them. The index version of GSC isn't really suitable for horde play as most infantry are too costly to be disposable.

I suppose to swing things back to the subject of tactics while we await more codex news, has anyone played around much with the new specialist detachments? I've not had an opportunity to use them yet. My last few opponents requested no specialist detachments so I have not had an opportunity to get a proper feel for them.

List I'm working on that has the ability to use both.

Spoiler:

Genestealer Cult Vanguard Detachment:
HQ: 1x Abominant
ELITES: 5x Aberrants
- 3x Power Picks
- 2x Power Hammers
ELITES: 5x Aberrants
- 3x Power Picks
- 2x Power Hammers
ELITES: 5x Aberrants
- 3x Power Picks
- 2x Power Hammers

Genestealer Cult Battalion Detachment:
HQ: 1x Primus
HQ: 1x Iconward
- Icon of the Cult Ascendant

TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Seismic Cannons
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Seismic Cannons
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- 2x Grenade Launchers
- 2x Seismic Cannons

DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck
DT: 1x Goliath Truck

HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder
HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder
HEAVY: 1x Goliath Rockgrinder

Genestealer Cult Battalion Detachment:
HQ: 1x Primus (76)
HQ: 1x Magus (73)

TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- Leader Power Pick
- 2x Flamers
- 7x Shotguns
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- Leader Power Pick
- 2x Flamers
- 7x Shotguns
TROOPS: 10x Neophytes
- Leader Power Pick
- 2x Flamers
- 7x Shotguns

Total: 1995 points, 14 CP before specialist detachments/field commander usage.

I like those movement trays, I think I'm going to adapt mine to be similarly liftable.

I'm not sure what I think of the list. Not in a bad way, I genuinely don't know what to make of it. Looks like it will take the board well. The Aberrants will put a lot of hurt on one thing or other. Looks fun

 Cephalobeard wrote:
You can't take Tempestus Scions anymore, don't know why.

Really hope this isn't true.

Arkengate wrote:
has anyone tried movement trays in 40k with gsc/horde? How'd it go?

I have a huge pile of them similar to these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/25mm-Warhammer-40k-Age-of-Sigmar-MOVEMENT-TRAY-1-100-25mm-Round-5-Models-MDF-/282905168186

They make deployment and the first couple turns go by like a breeze. You end up ditching them once you need to change shape or enter cover etc, but it saves time doing it as you go rather then moving every single guy separately.

The annoyance with GSC is that half the army is on 25mm and half on 32mm. I currently have no 32mm because the wild arms makes putting them in fiddly and also frankly because acolytes are trash ATM. I see myself getting those soon here though lol.


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 vipoid wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
You can't take Tempestus Scions anymore, don't know why.

Really hope this isn't true.

That was based off from the fake rumors I believe. At this point I would wait until the video leaks come forth, and even then I trust nothing 100% until I have the book in my claws.

Yeah, rumors were confirmed as false. Disregard them entirely.

I don't know that they were, didn't people just say that the photo of the picture he showed was from 7th? im not understanding why that page couldn't have been reused, but whatever. I wouldn't call it CONFIRMED fake yet either, just like all rumors we'll wait and see.

Red Corsair wrote:
The annoyance with GSC is that half the army is on 25mm and half on 32mm. I currently have no 32mm because the wild arms makes putting them in fiddly and also frankly because acolytes are trash ATM. I see myself getting those soon here though lol.

Most things are on 32mm actually.

32mm:
Primus
Magus
Iconward
Acolytes
Metamorphs
Aberrants
Neophyte Gunners (mining weapons)

25mm:
Neophytes
Purestrain Genestealers
Familiars

40mm:
Abominant

50mm:
Patriarch

60mm:
Scout Sentinel
Armored Sentinel
Neophyte Heavy Weapon Team


I don't think Acolytes are really "trash" so much as overshadowed by the improved Aberrants (both in terms of points and monetary: 1 Aberrant kit gives you everything you need, 1 Acolyte kit does not unless you are building demolition squads). They still shred things fairly well and Vigilus Defiant added a few new tricks to their repertoire.

Acolytes are super held back by the fact that their squads only have one of each special weapon. It's nutty.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Red Corsair wrote:
The annoyance with GSC is that half the army is on 25mm and half on 32mm. I currently have no 32mm because the wild arms makes putting them in fiddly and also frankly because acolytes are trash ATM. I see myself getting those soon here though lol.

Most things are on 32mm actually.

32mm:
Primus
Magus
Iconward
Acolytes
Metamorphs
Aberrants
Neophyte Gunners (mining weapons)

25mm:
Neophytes
Purestrain Genestealers
Familiars

40mm:
Abominant

50mm:
Patriarch

60mm:
Scout Sentinel
Armored Sentinel
Neophyte Heavy Weapon Team


I don't think Acolytes are really "trash" so much as overshadowed by the improved Aberrants (both in terms of points and monetary: 1 Aberrant kit gives you everything you need, 1 Acolyte kit does not unless you are building demolition squads). They still shred things fairly well and Vigilus Defiant added a few new tricks to their repertoire.

Sorry I was just trying to save time. Currently acolytes don't work, and I never take them despite having 70 painted. So currently, on the battlefield they are trash to me. Purestrains from the Nid book are 1pt more, let that sink in. So yea anyway, I was just being blunt because we are sitting here awkwardly waiting the new rules. No sense reanalyzing stuff that will drastically (hopefully) change in a week. When they drop to 7-8ppm it's go time baby. But currently they are just to expensive for a suicide unit with guardsmen durability and neophytes do more for me.

As for the bases, you misunderstood me again, my fault though. I didn't mean half the total unit entries were on 25mm. I meant half the infantry models you place on the table (or I place at least). Which makes the MDF trays I have a bit more limiting. For my Catachan army for example I only need one size of those trays for everything. I'll have to pick yup some 32mm trays after the release but I would rather spend the finds on more plastic crack


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 Cephalobeard wrote:
Acolytes are super held back by the fact that their squads only have one of each special weapon. It's nutty.

You mean the box? I'd say it's not really a hold back, unless I am misunderstanding you. You can only take 2 per 5 anyway. It's more annoying that you only get 5 guys.

Meh, I'd say it's a monetary issue, imo.

If you end with with acolytes around 7-10ppm, for example, and you want to 3 Squads. Let's just assume around 3x5 with 2 Rock Saws each, and this will be somewhere around 50-80 points.

Since you bought 3 boxes, you'll need 3 more to have enough rock saws (or you'll visit ebay, but I don't know how often folks do this, so I'll just assume a box.) Now we're talking 6 Boxes for 6 Weapons, just to cover 150-240pts. Assuming around Ebay prices for boxes, around $25-$30 per box, we're at $150-180 just for models, not counting glue or paints.

Monetarily it's so inefficient that it's a point of entry barrier for some people, which actively impedes the unit.

People will always pay for it, and if it's good then it's good and im thrilled, just expensive yo

Rocksaws are easy enough to convert though. Nobz, kills kan, rockgrinders all have good bits to use. I made a rock saw acolyte by replacing his arms with sentinel chainsaws. Hell, if you’re desperate you could stick a bunch of chainswords to a bit of sprue to make a big chainsaw

Right, there's options and ebay, I was sticking with a basic example just to keep my numbers consistent.

I'm not mad either way, I just think there is a money aspect involved as expensive kits get cheaper. Those invested will do it regardless.

GSC is just a very expensive army to collect. I think the options in the acolyte box are fine. It's crazy that we can take 2 mining weapons per 5 honestly. I think they packed plenty into the kit, what hurts is only getting 5 guys. I was lucky enough to grab 3 boxes of Operation Overkill, so I had 36 normal dudes which meant every box purchased I could basically use all the upgrades. It;s why I have so many aberrants too. That box was a great deal, although I still have all the death watch sitting in a box I need to off load that crap.



On a side note, don't forget to put some hand flamers on your acolytes. I was thinking earlier at work about how they are likely to drop to 7ppm (acolytes) and how we pretty much know a hand flamer is going to drop to 3 points and go up to d6 hits.

That could make for a crazy fun squad inside a goliath. 10 d6 auto hits averages to 35 hits, that's pretty tasty for screen removal.

I got two sets of these for my Rock-Saw-Needs:

https://bitsofwar.com/home/47-buzzsaws-drills.html

I picked up a box of Delaque to run as Resident Evil Tyrant style Metamorphs. Ten in the box for 40 ameribucks isn’t too bad, and there’s a ton of bits on the acolyte sprue for them.

 Badablack wrote:
I picked up a box of Delaque to run as Resident Evil Tyrant style Metamorphs. Ten in the box for 40 ameribucks isn’t too bad, and there’s a ton of bits on the acolyte sprue for them.

Do post pictures when you are done, im thinking about something similar.

I ran them with hand flamers because yeah, I’m anticipating those being pretty good when the codex rolls around. Here’s the first 5.