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Figured I'd post this over here as most of the Tyranid stratagems only require the Tyranid Keyword which all GSC have.

Anything neat we can do with this? The only one that struckout to me was the ability to regen wounds on a leman russ to keep it operational longer.

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:
Figured I'd post this over here as most of the Tyranid stratagems only require the Tyranid Keyword which all GSC have.

Spoiler:

Anything neat we can do with this? The only one that struckout to me was the ability to regen wounds on a leman russ to keep it operational longer.

Leman Russ regenerating wounds, anyone thinks about corrupted Marines from Starcraft II?
What struck me as insanely good is Metabolic Overdrive on squad of Aberrants - they have 2 wounds each so 1s are mitigated and moving them twice makes for great charge turn 1 - they will work like a gigantic missile that hits enemy heavy with 8 S10 attacks hitting on 4+. This is gold for Aberrants.

Damn, I need to buy this book, this is gold. Hopefully GW won't change the tyranid keyword in our codex.

Metabolic overdrive specifies that you cannot charge or shoot...it's an interesting mobility trick for when you need to get to an objective or linebreaker, but not much else from what I can see. Maybe setting up a nice turn 2 charge for a slow infantry unit, but GSC shouldn't ever be missing turn 2 charges Maybe if you roll poorly on the cult ambush table though

 luke1705 wrote:
Metabolic overdrive specifies that you cannot charge or shoot...it's an interesting mobility trick for when you need to get to an objective or linebreaker, but not much else from what I can see. Maybe setting up a nice turn 2 charge for a slow infantry unit, but GSC shouldn't ever be missing turn 2 charges Maybe if you roll poorly on the cult ambush table though

Ah, darn it. It was almost cut off. Welp, then nothing other than regenerating Leman Russ comes to my mind. Which is awesome btw.

EDIT: Nvm, found something interesting: You can arrive from Ambush with squad of 10 shotgun Neophytes, and use Single-Minded Annihilation. You get to shoot 40 times at S3, 60 if you get a 5 (as you can either shoot or move d6) on cult ambush roll or 40 S4 if you get 6 (as you can move closer).

 Boss Salvage wrote:

I'm pretty impressed with how close they all are, but Stealer survivability feels like it still tips it to them a bit. Curious how the numbers skew vs T7 instead of T8.

Bit I had done in the old thread:


The calculations didn't include the abilities of the Rock Cutters or Drills which skews them a bit compared to the Saws. Also at the time I didn't realize the Cult Knives always added an extra attack no matter what opposed to granting an extra attack when attacking with them, so some of the Acolyte values might be slightly off given that they do not include the single free knife attack.

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:

Anything neat we can do with this? The only one that struckout to me was the ability to regen wounds on a leman russ to keep it operational longer.

Feeder Tendrils could be fun seeing as we have access to the AM's command point recovery tools as well. While gimmicky, one could possibly have a list that ends the game with more command points than one started with. Power from the Hive Mind looks nice too, seeing as it does the same thing as the Familiars but for a command point instead of points. Implant Attack and Overrun look potentially useful for relatively low CP cost and Sporefield might be handy for screening purposes (Spore Mines in the index have a rule that they never cost reinforcement points - presumably it remains seeing as the army has a lot of weapons that spawn them).

Also on a more fluff related side of things, I find it very interesting that Hive Fleet Hydra is basically the same color scheme as the GSC Purestrain 'stealers with the addition of black chitin plates.

Picture for reference:

So I have a question regarding list building:
I have a Spearhead Detachment with Magus and 3 Cult Leman Russes, everything have a Tyranid keyword so... is there anything stopping me from developing a "little" pet such as Trygon in this detachment and calling it just Tyranid Detachment?
Cause I now really want a Trygon pet...

Yes you can put the Trygon in there. However, the Magnus looses Cult Ambush and the Trygon won't benefit from the Hive Fleet Adaptations (and presumably no Tyranid stratagems will be unlocked).

Great! I have exact points for Trygon Prime. This will be added to my wish-list later next year.

The idea of combining Guard w/ a GSC detachment and a Supreme Command of 3 Kronons Flyrants is very appealing to me.

Any fun combinations you folks have been able to identify with the Guard codex and the Nid codex now available for combination?

Might be a good idea to use Bullgryns to protect things like Malanthropes or help OOE move up the board unharassed due to him being under 9 wounds now. Other than that, any long range support that IG can provide would be nice for Nids. Like a Basilisks or something.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Bit I had done in the old thread:

Spoiler:

(most efficient in category underlined)

VS: T3 5+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip - Using Rending Claw): 12.27 wounds @ 12.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 11.8 wounds @ 18.64 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 11.8 wounds @ 15.25 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 23.76 wounds @ 9.46 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 8.91 wounds @ 12.3 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 8 wounds @ 13.75 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 3.52 wounds @ 46.5 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 3.48 wounds @ 35.6 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each): 3.5 wounds @ 20.7 points per wound.


VS: T4, 3+ Sv. (1 wound)
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 6.75 wounds @ 22.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 4.5 wounds @ 40 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 13.06 wounds @ 17.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 3.37 wounds @ 32.6 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 5.56 wounds @ 19.78 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 10.21 wounds @ 20.37 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 10.21 wounds @ 22.39 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 9.08 wounds @ 22.24 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 3.09 wounds @ 53.07 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each): 2.69 wounds @ 53.53 points per wound.

VS: T4, 3+ Sv. (2 wound)
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 6.75 wounds @ 22.2 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 4.5 wounds @ 40 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 13.06 wounds @ 17.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 3.37 wounds @ 32.6 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 5.56 wounds @ 19.78 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 14.86 wounds @ 13.9 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 10.21 wounds @ 22.39 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 12.6 wounds @ 16.03 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.19 wounds @ 26.46 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 4.59 wounds @ 27 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 5.39 wounds @ 26.71 points per wound.


VS: T5, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 5.01 wounds @ 29.94 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 4.45 wounds @ 49.43 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 2.97 wounds @ 60.6 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 9.7 wounds @ 23.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 2.2 wounds @ 50 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.9 wounds @ 28.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 12.95 wounds @ 16.06 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 9.46 wounds @ 24.3 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 11.26 wounds @ 17.9 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 9.29 wounds @ 17.65 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 3.48 wounds @ 35.63 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 6.94 wounds @20.74 points per wound.

VS: T7, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 5.01 wounds @ 29.94 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 2.23 wounds @ 98.65 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 2.97 wounds @ 60.6 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 9.7 wounds @ 23.2 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 2.2 wounds @ 50 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.39 wounds @ 32.44 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 12.95 wounds @ 16.06 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 9.46 wounds @ 24.3 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 11.26 wounds @ 17.9 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.96 wounds @23.56 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 4.63 wounds @ 31.1 points per wound.

VS: T8, 3+ Sv.
- 10x Metamorphs (Whip + Rending Claw): 3.2 wounds @ 46.87 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Claw): 2.22 wounds @ 99.09 points per wound.
- 10x Metamorphs (Metamorph Talon): 1.44 wounds @ 125 points per wound.
- 15x Genestealers: 6.3 wounds @ 35.7 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Cult Knives): 1.08 wounds @ 101.85 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (Rending Claws): 3.27 wounds @ 33.63 points per wound.
- 10x Acolytes (4x Rock Saws): 6.65 wounds @ 31.27 points per wound.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Drills): 4.01 wounds @ 57.35 points per wound*.
-10x Acolytes (4x Rock Cutters): 5.37 wounds @ 37.61 points per wound*.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Hammers): 6.96 wounds @23.56 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (4x Power Picks): 2.29 wounds @ 54.14 points per wound.
- 4x Aberrants (2x of each) 4.63 wounds @ 31.1 points per wound.

The calculations didn't include the abilities of the Rock Cutters or Drills which skews them a bit compared to the Saws. Also at the time I didn't realize the Cult Knives always added an extra attack no matter what opposed to granting an extra attack when attacking with them, so some of the Acolyte values might be slightly off given that they do not include the single free knife attack.

Thanks for posting your work from before! Good comparisons.

What conclusions did you draw from that math? That the units are specialized? Has the math lined up with your experience in-game?

So I might have watched a little bit too many previews of the new tyranids codex and came to conclusion that Genestealer Cult Smite battery might want to change into Neuropthropes with Zoanthropes in Supreme Command.
First off: It's way easier to amass psykers with Zoanthropes boxes (which come in 3 with bits to make one Neuropthrope) That means with 3 boxes you get 3 Neuropthropes and full unit of 6 Zoanthropes. This makes me pleased.

Second: Neuropthropes allow nearby Zoanthropes to re-roll 1s on psychic test and have the ability to heal itself or the nearby Zoanthropes with its smite power, while itself having 2 powers (so smite and something else). Psychic powers of Tyranids are just bonkers. Catalyst let's you give a Tyranid unit 5+ FNP that also saves vs. mortal wounds (say hello to your new friend - immortal Leman Russ) Onslaught allows a Tyranid unit to advance and shoot assault weapons without penalties. It also allows you to move your heavy weapons and ignore penalties when just moving. And they can still charge, yay for shotguns chaff units! Paroxysm makes the unit fight last, Mass Hypnosis is better but you can only cast it once so second similar power is welcome. Psychic Scream disables random power from enemy psykers.

For nifty 450 points package of 3 Neurothropes with 6 Zoanthropes in Supreme Command you can get not only a buffed-up smite in form of Zoanthropes (3+d3 mortal wounds if in 4-5 unit strong I heard) but also all 4 best powers I described above. Add 2 Magi to your Battalion for Power from Beyond and Mass Hypnosis for maximum screw you. Did I mentioned that Supreme Command gets to choose it's Hive-Fleet adaptation so how about your psykers being perpetually in cover with your Jormungandr hive or 6+FNP if in 6" range from your Neurothropes (aka always) with Leviathan.

If I ever want to try Smite Battery I think I will add Supreme Command of Space Mind Flayers.

Caspian89 wrote:
Thanks for posting your work from before! Good comparisons.

What conclusions did you draw from that math? That the units are specialized? Has the math lined up with your experience in-game?

Most of the conclusions found their way into the original post's summations, but for the most part the math has been fairly consistent with how units have performed against various targets on the table-top. Acolytes do best fighting higher toughness models due to the superior strength of their special weapons but have a degree of flexibility due to their cult knives while Genestealers generally speaking blend infantry and Aberrants smash the really tough targets (T9 and T10 - we have someone that runs a Fortress of Redemption fairly often...). Metamorphs and Power Pick Aberrants are the main under-performers, but even then according to the math Whip-Morphs are actually fairly close to Genestealers so long as Flurry of Claws isn't active and Power Picks offer cheaper wounds to soak damage for hammer equipped models in exchange for slightly less efficiency offensively.

The only ones that are arguably unplayable are the Talon-morphs and Claw-morphs. The lack of AP coupled with their cost really hurts their efficiency despite having better accuracy and better strength respectively.

Kandela wrote:Did I mentioned that Supreme Command gets to choose it's Hive-Fleet adaptation so how about your psykers being perpetually in cover with your Jormungandr hive

Jormungandr's adaptation doesn't effect Zoanthropes, as they both have Fly (which the adaptation specifically calls out as ineligible for its effect) and their Invulnerable save is far superior to their armor even in cover anyway (5+ Armor, 4+ in cover vs 3++ invul). That said, it is a fairly nice little module to throw in and does play off the Magi fairly well. Both help with denial extensively - shadow causes a -1 to cast penalty and Magi allow GSC units to deny as psykers when targeted. I think I might lean towards Kronos for the Psychic battery. While the trait has no effect, Kronos' warlord trait and stratagem are both excellent for shutting down opposing psykers (Balethorn Cannon is fairly nice too - Magnus won't like saving on a 5+ armor with no invul). Leviathan plays into our ability to have army wide 6+ FNP coverage so it would probably be my second choice, not sure if any of the others would be particularly useful for zoeys specifically.

Still, part of me is tempted to just flood the board with gaunts as an ally option. Having a sea of gribblies for the foe to contend with would be excellent for an ambush-minded list and there are lots of options with each Hive Fleet to augment them. Jormungandr would actually be great in this instance, as all of the gaunts would basically be upgraded to a 5+ armor which makes for maximum threat saturation when paired with Acolytes and Neophytes. With enough ambush slots one could even take a Ravener brood or two and deploy a few screens further afield with their fleet stratagem too if the rumors are accurate.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

Caspian89 wrote:
Thanks for posting your work from before! Good comparisons.

What conclusions did you draw from that math? That the units are specialized? Has the math lined up with your experience in-game?

Most of the conclusions found their way into the original post's summations, but for the most part the math has been fairly consistent with how units have performed against various targets on the table-top. Acolytes do best fighting higher toughness models due to the superior strength of their special weapons but have a degree of flexibility due to their cult knives while Genestealers generally speaking blend infantry and Aberrants smash the really tough targets (T9 and T10 - we have someone that runs a Fortress of Redemption fairly often...). Metamorphs and Power Pick Aberrants are the main under-performers, but even then according to the math Whip-Morphs are actually fairly close to Genestealers so long as Flurry of Claws isn't active and Power Picks offer cheaper wounds to soak damage for hammer equipped models in exchange for slightly less efficiency offensively.

The only ones that are arguably unplayable are the Talon-morphs and Claw-morphs. The lack of AP coupled with their cost really hurts their efficiency despite having better accuracy and better strength respectively. I've thinking a Hydra detach with a Tervigon, and two+ Broods of Termagants/Devilgaunts could be a decent "hold the Table" force while the Cultists ambush

Kandela wrote:Did I mentioned that Supreme Command gets to choose it's Hive-Fleet adaptation so how about your psykers being perpetually in cover with your Jormungandr hive

Jormungandr's adaptation doesn't effect Zoanthropes, as they both have Fly (which the adaptation specifically calls out as ineligible for its effect) and their Invulnerable save is far superior to their armor even in cover anyway (5+ Armor, 4+ in cover vs 3++ invul). That said, it is a fairly nice little module to throw in and does play off the Magi fairly well. Both help with denial extensively - shadow causes a -1 to cast penalty and Magi allow units to deny as psykers when targeted). I think I might lean towards Kronos for the Psychic battery. While the trait has no effect, Kronos' warlord trait and stratagem are both excellent for shutting down opposing psykers (Balethorn Cannon is fairly nice too - Magnus won't like saving on a 5+ armor with no invul). Leviathan plays into our ability to have army wide 6+ FNP coverage so it would probably be my second choice, not sure if any of the others would be particularly useful for zoeys specifically.

Still, part of me is tempted to just flood the board with gaunts as an ally option. Having a sea of gribblies for the foe to contend with would be excellent for an ambush-minded list and there are lots of options with each Hive Fleet to augment them. Jormungandr would actually be great in this instance, as all of the gaunts would basically be upgraded to a 5+ armor which makes for maximum threat saturation when paired with Acolytes and Neophytes. With enough ambush slots one could even take a Ravener brood or two and deploy a few screens further afield with their fleet stratagem too if the rumors are accurate.

pinecone77 wrote:

I've thinking a Hydra detach with a Tervigon, and two+ Broods of Termagants/Devilgaunts could be a decent "hold the Table" force while the Cultists ambush.

Might actually want Gorgon with that for reroll 1's to wound, as the Tervigon already provides a to-hit reroll and the Gorgon relic would be very nice on them (T9 monster sound good to you?).

 Strat_N8 wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:

I've thinking a Hydra detach with a Tervigon, and two+ Broods of Termagants/Devilgaunts could be a decent "hold the Table" force while the Cultists ambush.

Might actually want Gorgon with that for reroll 1's to wound, as the Tervigon already provides a to-hit reroll and the Gorgon relic would be very nice on them (T9 monster sound good to you?).

Good thinking! I've just been goofing around building Hydra Fleets because of their way cool Warlord trait. Also Hydra gets re rolls in the fight phase if they outnumber...that might be real handy in the late game if you kept them replenished.

So far in the new edition I am 0-6 with GSC, while most of my other armies, even ones constructed fairly casually, are doing fine (Only lost 1 time so far with Dark Eldar, 1-1 with CWE pre-codex, 2-2 with Thousand Sons) and I'm wondering what the best tactics people have found with units in a couple areas.

1) Genestealers: Ambush or Chimera? I've been loading them up into a chimera, 11 man squad with the patriarch, and I've actually had great success with that unit getting into combat safely and chewing things up. Committing ~400 points to one ambush die with no built in reroll seems risky - agree or disagree?

2) Acolytes: Squad size and weapons? I've been running knives and saws on one squad as a full 20 man blob arriving from ambush with my Primus, but after so many 1-3 results (I have never rolled nor re-rolled a single 4+ for this squad in all 6 of my games) I'm feeling like I need to spread out and hedge my bets more. In 7th I ran 5-man squads, but dropped that in 8th primarily because I no longer had Subterranean Ambush and I had a 1/2 unit limit on ambushers. Is 10-man with 2 saws optimal now?

3) Rockgrinder Gun: I used to use seismic weapons, then they took a massive nerfbat to the knee for some reason. I've since been carefully swapping and magnetizing my Neophytes to Mining Lasers (just in case sometime GW decides 17 points for a heavy weapon that shoots 4 lasgun shots is one of the single stupidest things in the game and I can use the seismics again). It has to take a main gun, but tbh all of them seem terribad. 25 points for a BS4+ lascannon but with 12" shorter range (Apparently going from 24" to 36" range costs 11 points...and then the next 12" range costs -5 points...hmm..). Heavy Seismic wouldn't be terrible with flat 3 damage but for the fact that it's 12" range and heavy so it'll almost always just be fishing for 5s. Clearance Incinerator is an even more exorbitantly priced heavy flamer. are people finding success with anything?

the_scotsman wrote:
So far in the new edition I am 0-6 with GSC, while most of my other armies, even ones constructed fairly casually, are doing fine (Only lost 1 time so far with Dark Eldar, 1-1 with CWE pre-codex, 2-2 with Thousand Sons) and I'm wondering what the best tactics people have found with units in a couple areas.

1) Genestealers: Ambush or Chimera? I've been loading them up into a chimera, 11 man squad with the patriarch, and I've actually had great success with that unit getting into combat safely and chewing things up. Committing ~400 points to one ambush die with no built in reroll seems risky - agree or disagree?

2) Acolytes: Squad size and weapons? I've been running knives and saws on one squad as a full 20 man blob arriving from ambush with my Primus, but after so many 1-3 results (I have never rolled nor re-rolled a single 4+ for this squad in all 6 of my games) I'm feeling like I need to spread out and hedge my bets more. In 7th I ran 5-man squads, but dropped that in 8th primarily because I no longer had Subterranean Ambush and I had a 1/2 unit limit on ambushers. Is 10-man with 2 saws optimal now?

3) Rockgrinder Gun: I used to use seismic weapons, then they took a massive nerfbat to the knee for some reason. I've since been carefully swapping and magnetizing my Neophytes to Mining Lasers (just in case sometime GW decides 17 points for a heavy weapon that shoots 4 lasgun shots is one of the single stupidest things in the game and I can use the seismics again). It has to take a main gun, but tbh all of them seem terribad. 25 points for a BS4+ lascannon but with 12" shorter range (Apparently going from 24" to 36" range costs 11 points...and then the next 12" range costs -5 points...hmm..). Heavy Seismic wouldn't be terrible with flat 3 damage but for the fact that it's 12" range and heavy so it'll almost always just be fishing for 5s. Clearance Incinerator is an even more exorbitantly priced heavy flamer. are people finding success with anything?

1) I prefer Ambush to be honest. You can still re-roll them for command points and these are fairly easy to come by. But a Chimera with double Heavy Flamer is a very nice assault vehicle.

2) I run them in squads of 5-man with double saws. Running anything than full weapon options is such a waste (so 10-man with 4 saws/drills etc.)

3) Don't use Rockgrinder but if I would there is no reason not to take Incinerator in my book.

Could not genstealers benefit from some Jhormungard ravaners? Wait til the FAQ before you buy this, but they would be great transports for shooty cultists.

Looking at you mining laser.

 Kandela wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
So far in the new edition I am 0-6 with GSC, while most of my other armies, even ones constructed fairly casually, are doing fine (Only lost 1 time so far with Dark Eldar, 1-1 with CWE pre-codex, 2-2 with Thousand Sons) and I'm wondering what the best tactics people have found with units in a couple areas.

1) Genestealers: Ambush or Chimera? I've been loading them up into a chimera, 11 man squad with the patriarch, and I've actually had great success with that unit getting into combat safely and chewing things up. Committing ~400 points to one ambush die with no built in reroll seems risky - agree or disagree?

2) Acolytes: Squad size and weapons? I've been running knives and saws on one squad as a full 20 man blob arriving from ambush with my Primus, but after so many 1-3 results (I have never rolled nor re-rolled a single 4+ for this squad in all 6 of my games) I'm feeling like I need to spread out and hedge my bets more. In 7th I ran 5-man squads, but dropped that in 8th primarily because I no longer had Subterranean Ambush and I had a 1/2 unit limit on ambushers. Is 10-man with 2 saws optimal now?

3) Rockgrinder Gun: I used to use seismic weapons, then they took a massive nerfbat to the knee for some reason. I've since been carefully swapping and magnetizing my Neophytes to Mining Lasers (just in case sometime GW decides 17 points for a heavy weapon that shoots 4 lasgun shots is one of the single stupidest things in the game and I can use the seismics again). It has to take a main gun, but tbh all of them seem terribad. 25 points for a BS4+ lascannon but with 12" shorter range (Apparently going from 24" to 36" range costs 11 points...and then the next 12" range costs -5 points...hmm..). Heavy Seismic wouldn't be terrible with flat 3 damage but for the fact that it's 12" range and heavy so it'll almost always just be fishing for 5s. Clearance Incinerator is an even more exorbitantly priced heavy flamer. are people finding success with anything?

1) I prefer Ambush to be honest. You can still re-roll them for command points and these are fairly easy to come by. But a Chimera with double Heavy Flamer is a very nice assault vehicle.

2) I run them in squads of 5-man with double saws. Running anything than full weapon options is such a waste (so 10-man with 4 saws/drills etc.)

3) Don't use Rockgrinder but if I would there is no reason not to take Incinerator in my book.

I'd moved more towards the Seismic over the Incinerator as "least bad" because for the same price as the HML it does 50% more damage on average against the kind of T7 3+ targets my rockgrinders are typically moving towards to attack in melee. still <1hp on average, but .9 wounds vs .6 wounds average from the HML. Hilariously, the Incinerator does almost the same damage as the HML vs a typical vehicle. A+, GW, A+, that HML was definitely dominating the meta in an unhealthy way back when it had 2 shots.

I can run one 10-man with 2 drills+2 saws (I have only bought 2 boxes of Acolytes, 1 of which became a currently-benched Metamorph squad, 1 of which became a full 5 heavy melee weapons, so I only have access to 5 heavy weapons with 24 of the monopose sculpts. Everything's painted, so I'm not willing to go ripping off arms and sawing to swap in my remaining 1 drill. I'll probably give that a shot.

So that brings my Benched+Painted Total to 16 unarmed acolytes, 8x Aberrants, 5x Metamorphs, 20x Neophytes with shotguns, flamers, cult icon, and melee geared sarge, 4x Neophyte Seismic Cannons, 1x Cult Chimera.

Yay most playtested edition ever...

Rockgrinder have their charm, being assault and 12 inch range with auto hit vs all the Eldar shenanigans out there. But yeah, to play competitively I guess a supreme command detach with magus and stealers is the way to go, to bridge miss with some AM. Had my friend offer me a straight 20% discount on all units to make it competetiv the other day :(

Yeah, I feel that the GSC suffers from not having a Codex, but that will change once one comes out. I'd hope to see some point drops on many units, and Brood Brothers get some tactics and Strats as well.

pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah, I feel that the GSC suffers from not having a Codex, but that will change once one comes out. I'd hope to see some point drops on many units, and Brood Brothers get some tactics and Strats as well.

That'd be nice. I'd also kill to get some AP on our Metamorphs. As it stands there is no reason to use any of their morph weapons other than rending claws.

Also a bit off topic but, GSC looks to be getting a battleforce boxset for the holidays. Picture is very blurry, but looks like it includes all our hqs, a goliath, a set of acolytes, and two neophytes in each flavor. Seems like a fairly good way to stock up on bodies, I'll need to double check to see how much we actually save though.



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Yep just took a quick look it's about 62.56USD cheaper. pretty neat

It's kind of boring, but in the meantime, Smite spam seems like a completely doable way to win games with GSC....Magus, Primaris, Neuros and Zoeys...lots of tools. Oh and a big Brood of Purestrains.

the_scotsman wrote:
1) Genestealers: Ambush or Chimera? I've been loading them up into a chimera, 11 man squad with the patriarch, and I've actually had great success with that unit getting into combat safely and chewing things up. Committing ~400 points to one ambush die with no built in reroll seems risky - agree or disagree?

I like both for Genestealers personally. Most of my melee forces tend to be loaded up in vehicles but Genestealers have enough innate mobility and a desire for larger squad sizes that I am comfortable ambushing them too. Main thing to keep in mind is that you don't want your ambushers to be isolated unless you have a strong enough gunline to mop up after the initial ambush has done its work. Most of the time I hold my ambushers back until turn 2-3 as it gives time for the rest of the army to get into charge range and clear away bubblewrap.

the_scotsman wrote:
2) Acolytes: Squad size and weapons?

I tend to run 10-strong units with maxed out demolition charges as mechanized troops. Demolition Charges have the advantage of a very strong alpha strike against most targets for a relatively low cost coupled with a perceived loss of threat once the bombs are thrown adding a level of survivability. They need a transport though to insure they can get in range to use the charges (Goliath Truck being the best suited), as most ambush results put them too far away. The other special weapons are also viable, but are more specialized than the Demolition Charges (Saws are strongest vs multi-wound heavy infantry and light vehicles, Cutters are strongest vs characters and monsters, and Drills are strongest vs invuls and high-wound vehicles/monsters due to highest damage potential).

I haven't made especially heavy use of larger squads yet, but that is more due to a lack of special weapons (I have 8 Demolition Charges, 4 Saws, 2 Drills - still need to build some Cutters). The main strength of Acolytes over Genestealers is their access to S8 AP-3/4 weaponry for dealing with tougher targets while retaining a level of anti-infantry flexibility that Aberrants lack.

the_scotsman wrote:
3) Rockgrinder Gun: I used to use seismic weapons, then they took a massive nerfbat to the knee for some reason. I've since been carefully swapping and magnetizing my Neophytes to Mining Lasers (just in case sometime GW decides 17 points for a heavy weapon that shoots 4 lasgun shots is one of the single stupidest things in the game and I can use the seismics again). It has to take a main gun, but tbh all of them seem terribad. 25 points for a BS4+ lascannon but with 12" shorter range (Apparently going from 24" to 36" range costs 11 points...and then the next 12" range costs -5 points...hmm..). Heavy Seismic wouldn't be terrible with flat 3 damage but for the fact that it's 12" range and heavy so it'll almost always just be fishing for 5s. Clearance Incinerator is an even more exorbitantly priced heavy flamer. are people finding success with anything?

I actually like the Seismic Cannon when paired with Grenade Launchers, as each basically adds an extra Grenade Launcher with a fixed 4 Frag Grenade shots at 24''-12'' or fixed 2 damage Krak Grenade at 12'', with the added benefit of rends on 6's. Whenever I've fielded them they have done good work against opposing infantry, just leave anti-tank to Acolyte squads.

As far as the Rockgrinder goes I like the Clearance Incinerator for the most part, as it meshes with the assault-minded nature of the vehicle and can still do a lot of work even when the Rockgrinder is on its last legs (also note that it gets 12'' range and the assault-type over a Heavy Flamer, so it can fire after advancing and has more reach). I used to like the Heavy Mining Laser as mine were equipped with them as a holdover from 7th (cheapest gun at the time and I always had them in the Demolition Claw for Tank Hunter) but they basically force the Rock Grinder to a mid-field/backfield role to use which sacrifices their melee capabilities and being 1-shot weapons makes them unappealing on a platform who looses accuracy as it is damaged... I have not tried the Heavy Seismic Cannon yet as none of mine are currently modeled with one (though my most recently added 'grinder has the main weapon slot magnetized), though I think it has potential as a multi-role weapon. Its long range profile meshes with the Heavy Stubber fairly well while the close range shot basically adds extra attacks from the Drilldozer Blade prior to a charge.

the_scotsman wrote:
that HML was definitely dominating the meta in an unhealthy way back when it had 2 shots.

I don't think it ever had 2 shots...

the_scotsman wrote:
So that brings my Benched+Painted Total to 16 unarmed acolytes, 8x Aberrants, 5x Metamorphs, 20x Neophytes with shotguns, flamers, cult icon, and melee geared sarge, 4x Neophyte Seismic Cannons, 1x Cult Chimera.

Apart from the metamorphs most of that should still be usable. I do have a bit of a soft spot for Aberrants as mine tend to do well for me when I can find room to field them. The last time I brought them as a unit of 8 they won the game for me by assassinating one obnoxious Typhus which earned slay the warlord and allowed my other units to clean up his Pox Walker hoards without needing Might from Beyond to counteract his buffs. They should fit nicely in the Chimera and would make a nice back-up for your Acolytes given they have less special weapons than normal (could take a unit of 6 of each in the Chimera - put 2x Drills on the Acolytes and 4x Hammers on the Aberrants).

pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah, I feel that the GSC suffers from not having a Codex, but that will change once one comes out. I'd hope to see some point drops on many units, and Brood Brothers get some tactics and Strats as well.

Agreed, though to be fair we are in a better place than most of the remaining non-imperial index armies (non-Tzeench Daemons, Tau, Necrons, and Orks especially). The biggest boon I expect from the codex besides point adjustments is a slight restructuring of the ambush table and the reintroduction of Return to Shadows as a stratagem, which combined should allow entirely ambush-centric lists to be functional again in matched play without needing allies to hold down the table.

Mr.Pengwinn wrote:Also a bit off topic but, GSC looks to be getting a battleforce boxset for the holidays. Picture is very blurry, but looks like it includes all our hqs, a goliath, a set of acolytes, and two neophytes in each flavor. Seems like a fairly good way to stock up on bodies, I'll need to double check to see how much we actually save though.

Spoiler:

Yep just took a quick look it's about 62.56USD cheaper. pretty neat

That is exciting! I know a couple people at our gaming group that want to start the army but have no interest in buying a copy of Deathwatch Overkill. This should do it for them. Kinda wish it had a second Goliath or a Chimera with an Iconward in place of the Brood Coven, but that's from someone who already has 3 Overkill sprues...

pinecone77 wrote:
It's kind of boring, but in the meantime, Smite spam seems like a completely doable way to win games with GSC....Magus, Primaris, Neuros and Zoeys...lots of tools. Oh and a big Brood of Purestrains.

GSC mechanized lists are also fairly strong, since all of our vehicles have fairly good offensive capabilities (including Open Topped on the Truck for shooting units) paired with reasonable durability and unlike Orks or AM/Guard our units are generally expensive enough to justify a delivery vehicle to keep them safe.

Yeah ...I'm just guessing, but I expect return to the shadows to come back as a 1cp strat. But maybe it will be a regular function.

pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah ...I'm just guessing, but I expect return to the shadows to come back as a 1cp strat. But maybe it will be a regular function.

I'm expecting it will be a variable cost stratagem depending on how many infantry units you nominate, though it could return as a universal ability (would be nice). Thankfully, both Tyranids and Astra Militarium give us access to command point recovery and our book might come with a few methods of its own.

Also speaking of stratagems, I updated the main post with the allied ones that can be used by the faction. I'll be keeping an eye out for an FAQ regarding the Tyranid ones though, as there are a couple that might have unintended interactions and the sheer amount that only require the target have the Tyranids keyword makes me wonder if they forgot GSC has it too.

 Strat_N8 wrote:


I'm expecting it will be a variable cost stratagem depending on how many infantry units you nominate, though it could return as a universal ability (would be nice). Thankfully, both Tyranids and Astra Militarium give us access to command point recovery and our book might come with a few methods of its own.

Also speaking of stratagems, I updated the main post with the allied ones that can be used by the faction. I'll be keeping an eye out for an FAQ regarding the Tyranid ones though, as there are a couple that might have unintended interactions and the sheer amount that only require the target have the Tyranids keyword makes me wonder if they forgot GSC has it too.

Yeah let's hope that when they find out they won't overreact and remove every Tyranid keyword in the codex
I'm actually quite pleased with how it is right now. We are subpar when alone but thanks for our unique rules we are decent as Tyranid/AM/both soup.


Could someone help me out in figuring out how this conversion was made?

I think it is Goliath Truck on Leman Russ tracks, but it is incredibly well made, it is seamless.

Sorry can't help with the conversion...other than to say - that's an expensive piece of plastic!

I continue to work on list building - thank-you Battle Scribe! - trying to work out what to paint/buy with my limited resources.

I finally say that the Spearhead, Vanguard and Outrider detachments CAN contain 0-2 of the other battlefield role slots which makes building legal lists much easier for me. Missed that before and it was getting convoluted!

Here is my attempt at a balanced list. 2000 pts. 7 CPs


Your comments and suggestions have been really helpful to date.

This feels like a good mix of unit roles across the table. For long range shooting power there's the Leman Russes - taken as GSC for Force Org. purposes - which are supported and lightly screened by the Heavy Weapons Teams, who benefit from the Company Commander's Orders. For Ambushing into the backfield there is the big Genestealer Squad, Patriarch as well as the 12 model Acolytes w/Primus. For the mid-field and for pressuring the opponent's lines to set-up for a good Ambush I have the Scout Sentinels and Hellhound. The Magus has his supporting Neophytes who can ambush in where needed for support. The demo-charge Acolyte squads mount up in a truck and join the forward assault of the Sentinels/Hellhound hopefully creating too many targets to deal with easily.

Is that too many heavy flamers? Are those heavy weapon teams better as 3x AM Infantry Squads?

I've been submitting a bunch of lists and I appreciate any and all feedback.

I think that we really need to make use of our cult ambush to keep up with other armies. Half our army should be reserved every game. Takeing a small Tyranid hive fleet detachment with a lictor or two to hedge our bets for cult ambush seems like an interesting and fluffy thing to do Lictors are vanguard organisms afterall. I'm thinking a Broodlord and 3 lictors (just under 300 pts) is a steal, lets us use a hive fleet and dosent break fluffy immersion (it's just a portion of the cult genestealers mutateing in reaction to an approaching hive fleet). This also gives you access to the new tyranid psychic powers as well.