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Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Seriously, where has this ridiculous idea that the Galactic Civil War wasn't actually a war come from? Is it really just that people can't wrap their brains around the idea that it was a wider conflict than depicted in the OT, while Clone Wars got a few big battle scenes and a cartoon with more of them?

And don't give me this "Rebels were just an insurgency" stuff, because firstly that's not accurate, and secondly even if it were and the Alliance never moved beyond the kind of thing depicted in the Rebels show, why would that matter? Was the Iraq War not a war? The War in Afghanistan? The Vietnam War? Just because one side has a numbers and supply advantage and the other is a more rag-tag insurgent force doesn't mean a major, years-long conflict between the two entities isn't actually a "proper" war.

If you prefer other eras because of the aesthetic or the greater prevalence of force users, fine, but some folk need to stop trying to tear down the GCW era to try and lend their preference false authority.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Seriously, where has this ridiculous idea that the Galactic Civil War wasn't actually a war come from? Is it really just that people can't wrap their brains around the idea that it was a wider conflict than depicted in the OT, while Clone Wars got a few big battle scenes and a cartoon with more of them?

And don't give me this "Rebels were just an insurgency" stuff, because firstly that's not accurate, and secondly even if it were and the Alliance never moved beyond the kind of thing depicted in the Rebels show, why would that matter? Was the Iraq War not a war? The War in Afghanistan? The Vietnam War? Just because one side has a numbers and supply advantage and the other is a more rag-tag insurgent force doesn't mean a major, years-long conflict between the two entities isn't actually a "proper" war.

If you prefer other eras because of the aesthetic or the greater prevalence of force users, fine, but some folk need to stop trying to tear down the GCW era to try and lend their preference false authority.


Who has said it wasn't a real war? People has said that it doesn't has the same depth of military backrgound.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





On the table, a lot of Legion's games look to be on the scale of RotJ. Either Rebels attacking an Imperial facility or Vader discovering a Rebel stronghold and wiping it out. It's really not like... a huge....war or anything.

On the subject of the prequels; much like the OT; the prequels have become an interesting setting for gaming almost entirely back on the EU built around it. Much like how most OT gaming leans on the EU once it gets past recreating 3-4 key scenes from the films, the bulk of the prequels worth playing in is the result of all the work that's been put in to bridging the gap between Ep 2-3.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 LunarSol wrote:
On the subject of the prequels; much like the OT; the prequels have become an interesting setting for gaming almost entirely back on the EU built around it. Much like how most OT gaming leans on the EU once it gets past recreating 3-4 key scenes from the films, the bulk of the prequels worth playing in is the result of all the work that's been put in to bridging the gap between Ep 2-3.
Are you counting the Clone Wars tv show as EU? George Lucas was a part of every story meeting and was intimately involved in the show. Multiple characters, episodes, and ideas were directly from him.

Also, I disagree. Episode 3 had so much awesome game material - so many Jedi, clone trooper variations, droid types, alien planets, weapons, space fighters, tanks, and war machines... the Order 66 montage alone had enough material for years of game releases. Episode 2 had some great material too, such as Coruscant's underworld. It really seems like people have this blind spot when it comes to the prequels where they refuse to even acknowledge they exist or that they had good qualities. They were amazing, flawed movies, and I've seen a hundred movies more flawed and less amazing get a lot more praise for doing a lot less (like anything in the Marvel cinematic universe).

I keep seeing people try to give credit for Star Wars to everybody but George Lucas. A New Hope was only good because his wife, the editor, managed to save it in post production. The reason the prequels suck is because he didn't have anyone to tell him no. Lucas does everything wrong, nothing right. Selling Star Wars to Disney was the best decision ever, because now, Star Wars is finally in the hands of someone competent - am I right?
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Lord of Change





Albany, NY

 Sqorgar wrote:
Also, I disagree. Episode 3 had so much awesome game material - so many Jedi, clone trooper variations, droid types, alien planets, weapons, space fighters, tanks, and war machines
Come on FFG, gimme them hailfire droid tanks like *choom choom choom*



- Salvage

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/17 20:38:23


KOW BATREPS: BLOODFIRE
INSTAGRAM: @boss_salvage 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





I do count the show as EU. I consider anything outside of the films to be extended content. Realistically, with a blaster to my head, I'd probably also say the same about solo and maybe even Rogue One. That's not to bash any of it. Most of my love of the franchise comes from the extended sandbox.

Ep 3 does have a lot of good toys, but they flash by almost like a trailer. Where I think the EU really helps is by putting them down on the table and showing people how fun they can be to play with. It's where a lot of background characters got personalities and motivations that make the battlefields of the Clones Wars interesting to play on.
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Monarchy of TBD

overtyrant wrote:
I've been on the fence for a while about this game. Not a massive fan of the idea of lots of pitched battles with the rebels, I've seen them more as an operative guerilla warfare terrorists style with only the occasional pitched battle where they are forced into a corner. But the Royal guard look really cool and would love to do a force of them. How feasible would that be?


You know, I don't think Snowtroopers painted red would look out of place in an army like that. They've got capes, and similar helmets. Take the minimum to fill your requirements, and call them Royal Acolytes.

Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.

 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

 Gitzbitah wrote:
overtyrant wrote:
I've been on the fence for a while about this game. Not a massive fan of the idea of lots of pitched battles with the rebels, I've seen them more as an operative guerilla warfare terrorists style with only the occasional pitched battle where they are forced into a corner. But the Royal guard look really cool and would love to do a force of them. How feasible would that be?


You know, I don't think Snowtroopers painted red would look out of place in an army like that. They've got capes, and similar helmets. Take the minimum to fill your requirements, and call them Royal Acolytes.


I'm doing something similar - I'm painting my Stormtroopers up as 501st legion (with blue stripes), and the Snowtroopers will be painted as Arc Troopers and I'll be referring to them as Assault Troopers - no snow about them. Led by Vader, of course, with Mustafar (cracked Magma) bases.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Houston, TX

 Sqorgar wrote:
But for me, the value in the Star Wars property has never been the movies themselves, but the games that come out of them. Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba are barely in ANH, didn't have even have names, but some of my fondest memories of the Star Wars CCG was playing them in the Cantina and spouting off "We're wanted men. I have the death sentence on twelve systems."


I LOVE Evazan in the old Decipher CCG. His special was just ridiculous. "Come into this AT-AT Obi-Wan... let me 'treat' that injury!" Bossk's Mortar Gun was equally amazing for its absurd ability to blow up abstract Utinni effects. I have fond memories of destroying "Yoda's Hope" with a grenade somehow.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/18 01:28:57


 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

 Boss Salvage wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Riquende wrote:
Clone Wars and I'm waaaay out. What would be the point?
Well, for one thing, it's an actual war.
SNAP!


shrugs

I hope your clever internet victory bring you solace every time a Legion wave goes by without any of the CW-era pointless tosh. Regardless, the Galactic Civil War has always been war enough for me. But then I used to read the WEG sourcebooks about the Rebel Alliance and Empire which into a lot of detail about the wider scope of the conflict than the films or any books ever did.
   
Made in nl
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





Segmentum Solar

Didn’t Solo open up a whole scope for Empire-era conflicts with the scenes of the Imperial infantry (non-Stormtoopers) on Mimban, etc.? The Empire’s wars of conques/consolidation seem quite interesting to me.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gitzbitah wrote:
overtyrant wrote:
I've been on the fence for a while about this game. Not a massive fan of the idea of lots of pitched battles with the rebels, I've seen them more as an operative guerilla warfare terrorists style with only the occasional pitched battle where they are forced into a corner. But the Royal guard look really cool and would love to do a force of them. How feasible would that be?


You know, I don't think Snowtroopers painted red would look out of place in an army like that. They've got capes, and similar helmets. Take the minimum to fill your requirements, and call them Royal Acolytes.


Oh I like the sound of that!!

Thanks
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Honestly I see the need for Legion to be Original Trilogy stuff, but I personally think the game could get 10 times the mileage by being a Star wars: The Clone Wars tabletop game. Say what you want about the slow, dour political thrillers that the Prequels were, but the Clone Wars battle scenes, along with the TV series, were really good space fantasy action, with lots of different troop types and vehicles spread between several factions.

Say nothing of lots of Jedi and lightsaber-wielders on both sides, as well as more mundane commanders (and generic force-using commanders being much more possible, so not every army has to be Luke vs. Vader if you want lightsabers on the table).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/22 02:28:18




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





The main problem with the Clone Wars would be the prevalence of the basic droids which are stupid and uninteresting and would be really lame to play (if they behaved/acted/worked like they did in the films). You'd need to concentrate on any other option you could find as opposition.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Well, yeah. They couldn't be comic relief like they were most of the time (although Super Battle Droids changed that some), but frankly it's not like we ever see Stormtroopers as much more effective for the Empire. And Clones are pretty much merely mooks to deliver a Jedi to their required lightsaber scene most of the time, too.

I think it's all pretty relative when you are dealing with the basic troops for a setting. I just meant that FFG could go further with the Clone Wars before having to dip into some pretty fringe stuff for content.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/22 06:04:17




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka




It still throws me off big time. Legion I am thinking large 40K games, this is a small skirmish game like Kill Team. Either I have the name wrong, or I believe FFG has chosen the wrong name.

For me it's if you have the name wrong for the game, what else is wrong. While from what I have read that is not the case that is what sticks in my head every time I see Legion name.

Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.

Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?

Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".  
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 Elbows wrote:
The main problem with the Clone Wars would be the prevalence of the basic droids which are stupid and uninteresting and would be really lame to play (if they behaved/acted/worked like they did in the films). You'd need to concentrate on any other option you could find as opposition.
B1 Battle droids would just be standard Corps troopers.

There's a large amount of droids outside of them, you've got Droidekas, B2 Battle droids (The supers), the BX commando Droids, Tactical droid (though this might be reserves as a generalist Commander), the various sort of heavy droids (too many to name), and other things that could be used.

Though I'd honestly love the Magnaguards as a model.. Well, if they include the cloaks. The cloaks need to be on them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/23 01:28:30


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Definately agree that clone wars would add a lot more options which can only help expand on the game
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





But would you want FFG doing a random smattering of stuff from various eras, or just concentrate on one era at a time?
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Elbows wrote:
But would you want FFG doing a random smattering of stuff from various eras, or just concentrate on one era at a time?
One era at a time, preferably one that involved an actual war.

Like the Clone Wars, which are now #Saved.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Seriously, where has this ridiculous idea that the Galactic Civil War wasn't actually a war come from? Is it really just that people can't wrap their brains around the idea that it was a wider conflict than depicted in the OT, while Clone Wars got a few big battle scenes and a cartoon with more of them?

And don't give me this "Rebels were just an insurgency" stuff, because firstly that's not accurate, and secondly even if it were and the Alliance never moved beyond the kind of thing depicted in the Rebels show, why would that matter? Was the Iraq War not a war? The War in Afghanistan? The Vietnam War? Just because one side has a numbers and supply advantage and the other is a more rag-tag insurgent force doesn't mean a major, years-long conflict between the two entities isn't actually a "proper" war.
None of that is helping your point, especially your Vietnam war analogy. It wasn't all Viet Cong y'know. Ever heard of the NVA?

The Rebel Alliance were a partisan group. Their chief tactics were guerilla warfare, covert strikes and the occasional resource-stretching fleet battle (although even then it was usually their more-advanced fighters doing lightning hit'n'run strikes, as demonstrated multiple times during the films).

There was no protracted war. Not like the Clone Wars, which had massive fleets and legions of troopers fighting it out over vast swathes of territory both in space and on the ground. The Rebels never got their 'army' together to fight against legions of Imperial Storm Troopers.

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Didn’t Solo open up a whole scope for Empire-era conflicts with the scenes of the Imperial infantry (non-Stormtoopers) on Mimban, etc.? The Empire’s wars of conques/consolidation seem quite interesting to me.
Yes, so FFG can add another disparate Trooper type to the kaleidoscope of Imperial and Rebel forces that would never fight alongside one another (Endor Commandos and a Snowspeeder vs Hoth Troopers and Royal Guard! Ohh! How Star Wars-y!!!).



This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/07/23 09:30:55


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Monarchy of TBD

That does seem like a concern. If one wished to play thematically you have zero options- and if you wish to use options, theme cannot be utilized.

Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Well, they are pretty hamstrung by the lack of variety of iconic troops in the movies they are drawing from. And unlike the Clone Wars-based movies and show, none of the original trilogy have any real grunt-on- grunt action that aren't specialized troops in isolated circumstances (other than the Commandos vs. Stormtroopers on Endor).

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/24 00:00:57




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





You're right to say it's not anything like the scale of the clone wars, HBMC, but wrong to say the rebel alliance "never got its' army together to fight against legions of stormtroopers" - certainly it was asymmetrical but there are a few examples of ground battles between the rebel alliance and the empire not including hoth and endor that are canon

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Alliance_to_Restore_the_Republic

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Vrogas_Vas is one such example

You ain't nothin' but a hormagaunt... cryin' all the time...

40k:  
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
But would you want FFG doing a random smattering of stuff from various eras, or just concentrate on one era at a time?
One era at a time, preferably one that involved an actual war.

Like the Clone Wars, which are now #Saved.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Seriously, where has this ridiculous idea that the Galactic Civil War wasn't actually a war come from? Is it really just that people can't wrap their brains around the idea that it was a wider conflict than depicted in the OT, while Clone Wars got a few big battle scenes and a cartoon with more of them?

And don't give me this "Rebels were just an insurgency" stuff, because firstly that's not accurate, and secondly even if it were and the Alliance never moved beyond the kind of thing depicted in the Rebels show, why would that matter? Was the Iraq War not a war? The War in Afghanistan? The Vietnam War? Just because one side has a numbers and supply advantage and the other is a more rag-tag insurgent force doesn't mean a major, years-long conflict between the two entities isn't actually a "proper" war.
None of that is helping your point, especially your Vietnam war analogy. It wasn't all Viet Cong y'know. Ever heard of the NVA?

The Rebel Alliance were a partisan group. Their chief tactics were guerilla warfare, covert strikes and the occasional resource-stretching fleet battle (although even then it was usually their more-advanced fighters doing lightning hit'n'run strikes, as demonstrated multiple times during the films).

There was no protracted war. Not like the Clone Wars, which had massive fleets and legions of troopers fighting it out over vast swathes of territory both in space and on the ground. The Rebels never got their 'army' together to fight against legions of Imperial Storm Troopers.

 Insane Ivan wrote:
Didn’t Solo open up a whole scope for Empire-era conflicts with the scenes of the Imperial infantry (non-Stormtoopers) on Mimban, etc.? The Empire’s wars of conques/consolidation seem quite interesting to me.
Yes, so FFG can add another disparate Trooper type to the kaleidoscope of Imperial and Rebel forces that would never fight alongside one another (Endor Commandos and a Snowspeeder vs Hoth Troopers and Royal Guard! Ohh! How Star Wars-y!!!).





The Solo movie and Rebels has somewhat changed that. We get hints in Solo of a larger ground war going on at Mimban (isn’t that the swamp planet from “Splinter of the Mind’s Eye” . Rebels have had a couple skirmishes on Ezra’s home planet, near the end of the series.

Also, I’ll take random Clone Troopers over the Emperor showing up in a skirmish game any day.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





SoCal

Also, all the canon that people are basing their opinions on has mostly been wiped. Anything now is stuff they pick and choose for modern books and movies.

Meanwhile, my space wizard with laser sword is going to go cut up more bad guys with laser guns that literally go pew pew.

   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets







The Solo movie and Rebels has somewhat changed that. We get hints in Solo of a larger ground war going on at Mimban (isn’t that the swamp planet from “Splinter of the Mind’s Eye” . Rebels have had a couple skirmishes on Ezra’s home planet, near the end of the series.
The thing is whether or not that's the Rebel Alliance for Mimban.. or some bog standard rebellion, which the Empire has a bunch to deal with because sometimes things don't like being oppressed.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Snow speeders are just rebel airspeeders fitted with extra equipment to handle the environment on Hoth. It's not a stretch that the rebels would use them elsewhere.

Snowtroopers can be run alongside normal Stormtroopers as Galactic Marines. They look almost the same, and that extra gear can be considered protection from other hostile environments, not just snow.

Imo, the only unit that's been announced that just doesn't work is Palpatine's Royal Guard. And clearly I'm not the only one who thinks they'd be worthless in combat, George Lucas and DICE gave him squads of personal Shock Troopers in EP III and Battlefront 2015.
   
Made in us
Beautiful and Deadly Keeper of Secrets





 zend wrote:
Snow speeders are just rebel airspeeders fitted with extra equipment to handle the environment on Hoth. It's not a stretch that the rebels would use them elsewhere.

Snowtroopers can be run alongside normal Stormtroopers as Galactic Marines. They look almost the same, and that extra gear can be considered protection from other hostile environments, not just snow.

Imo, the only unit that's been announced that just doesn't work is Palpatine's Royal Guard. And clearly I'm not the only one who thinks they'd be worthless in combat, George Lucas and DICE gave him squads of personal Shock Troopers in EP III and Battlefront 2015.
Kind of hope in the future if they introduce more options for units we get the energy pike they used in Rebels to bind people from afar. But at the same time, it seems they wanted to use the base idea of the Royal Guard using their force pikes first.. The lore had them changing out weaponry when they needed to be in more frontline combat rather then a defensive guard role (As shown in.. I think it was EA's battlefront?)

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/25 06:36:20


 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

So, Gencon stream is done with Star Wars stuff, news:

*Chewie Operative plus Wookie Warriors unit, coming Q4.
*New "Personnel" packs for both factions, containing Officer, Medic, Comms Tech and one other I missed, can be used to upgrade squads but also the Officer can be used as a generic Commander, Rebel one is Q1 2019.
*Clone Wars is confirmed, more info towards the end of the year.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/01 23:41:15


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Like what I heard. The specialist upgrade + generic officers is something I specifically asked for, and Clone Wars? Heck yeah. I may give this another chance next year when the clones release.
   
 
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