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Baxx wrote:
Why are they excluding random parts of the rules, like badzone delta tile special terrain features?

I don't see where kendoka said that. Did he edit his post?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Baxx wrote:
Why are they excluding random parts of the rules, like badzone delta tile special terrain features?

I don't see where kendoka said that. Did he edit his post?

I didn’t - Baxx was just dropping a general comment regarding that not all previously published material made it into the new books.
Not really a problem from my point of view. Less is (sometimes) more.

Yeah, however that is highly subjective. The special terrain features can be fun sometimes. If they never released it in the first place, I wouldn't mind not having it. When making a rules compilation, it is impossible for me to decide whether to exclude anything. So everything is included. But for GW, they have no problem excluding content here and there... Surely someone is gonna be disappointed by that?

Those rules filled quite a lot of pages in GW2, this is content that those of us who bought it paid good money for. We know already the books are thrash now, but also the content itself is gone. I get that we paid early access beta game, but now I realize we paid for content that didn't even make it to the finished release (N18 if you like or version 1.0).

Any news if there will be a FAQ with all the new changes for those not wanting to buy the new books, because they already own all the gangwars and the old rulebook?

I really doubt that unfortunately... but if enough people complain they might listen.

Anon052 wrote:
Any news if there will be a FAQ with all the new changes for those not wanting to buy the new books, because they already own all the gangwars and the old rulebook?

That's gonna be painful to use (rules are scattered all over the place, printed and re-printed so many times, rules change every time). You can triple the amount of pain it would be to track everything and make that document. The easy route is of course to scrap everything and start over. Then demand money for it.

 kendoka wrote:

Also bought all the Delaque stuff - and made a few quick conversions:



]

Looking at the photos, the middle one actually looks like an opera singer

Looks good. Nice to see they're easy to give new arms. I'm a fan of the Delaque, but the selection of arms are lackluster IMO.

How do the bodies scale with other modern GW humans, like the GSC or Mechanicus? Do you have any on hand to make a comparasion pic?

Wonder if GW sent out advance copies of the books? Seems like most other stuff gets early reviews.

Im kinda bummed there arent any video unboxings and book flipthroughs on youtube. Usually at least someone out there always has one up on the day of release. There is an odd lack of reviews and such but maybe people are just busy.

Had a flip through them yesterday. No Bad Zone Delta rules.

The books are already leaked (still waiting for my order to arrive).

The books are very solid. According to feedback from yaktribe, there are much improvements (these are not my discoveries, credits belong to several users over at yaktribe):

-Ambot's Tunneling Claw is fixed.
-Orlock brute now has normal Harpoon Launcher
-Khimerix and Phyrr Cat now have the same Talon attack
-Armoury is now almost complete, only missing some unique weapons for dramatis personae.

Some things are tweaked but not yet perfect:
-Fearsome
-Combi needler still has different profile from needle rifle, but at least their names are uniquely different
-Club now has +1 AP modifier for some reason

Still some confusion about the "cut away the clippers" rule.

Scenarios that are excluded:
In The Dark, Monster Hunt, Prison Break, Settlement Attack, and Escape.

I noticed a subtle change to the way equipping gangers with special weapons works; now it’s explicit that you have to buy each new weapon with a new ganger, no back-equipping existing members, unless they are champions/leaders of course.

You mean you cannot keep weapons in stash to give to people?

That... why?

I'm loving the fluff in the new books(mostly). That wee joke about "Mung Vases" turns super dark at the end

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You mean you cannot keep weapons in stash to give to people?

That... why?

No, I mean you can’t just buy a special weapon for each of your existing gangers after your first game.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You mean you cannot keep weapons in stash to give to people?

That... why?

No, I mean you can’t just buy a special weapon for each of your existing gangers after your first game.

Maybe we have been playing it wrong but after your initial gang, you can't buy special weapons for any new gangers after that you get/buy from their list. The only way to get new special weapons is trading post etc or when getting new champions or leaders. You can put weapons you had in your stash if you want and then other gangers can equip it from your stash. We make it if you get a new champ they have to use weapons they bought for at least one game first before they can put it in their stash. But you can't just keep buying gangers and buying them special weapons from their list or have old gangers keep buying special weapons.

We adapt a lot of rules. But is how we play? Do you play it different?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
No, I mean you can’t just buy a special weapon for each of your existing gangers after your first game.

Ah, ok, I just had a quick check of the book.

That seems like a weird distinction to make.

"You didn't get a special weapon when you joined, so you can NEVER have one! MWAHAHAHA!"

They insist on having special weapons for everyone, so this may be their attempt to stop 1st game nude gangs.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
No, I mean you can’t just buy a special weapon for each of your existing gangers after your first game.

Ah, ok, I just had a quick check of the book.

That seems like a weird distinction to make.

"You didn't get a special weapon when you joined, so you can NEVER have one! MWAHAHAHA!"

I think it’s more of an extension of the no more clippers rule, plus an attempt to enforce that special weapons are supposed to be difficult to come by. So you have a max of four in a starting gang (leader, 2× champions, 1× ganger) and every one after that either has a ganger tax or is another leader or champ card.

I don’t get why they couldn’t just stick in an arbitrary limit or relate it to reputation like champs and hangers-on…

Baxx wrote:
The books are already leaked (still waiting for my order to arrive).

The books are very solid. According to feedback from yaktribe, there are much improvements (these are not my discoveries, credits belong to several users over at yaktribe):

-Ambot's Tunneling Claw is fixed.
-Orlock brute now has normal Harpoon Launcher
-Khimerix and Phyrr Cat now have the same Talon attack
-Armoury is now almost complete, only missing some unique weapons for dramatis personae.

Some things are tweaked but not yet perfect:
-Fearsome
-Combi needler still has different profile from needle rifle, but at least their names are uniquely different
-Club now has +1 AP modifier for some reason

Still some confusion about the "cut away the clippers" rule.

Scenarios that are excluded:
In The Dark, Monster Hunt, Prison Break, Settlement Attack, and Escape.

Also, add to that Rad Phage now causes a fleshwound on a 4+ and isn't an auto fleshwound anymore
Stimm Slugs are use once per game

Baxx wrote:

-Combi needler still has different profile from needle rifle, but at least their names are uniquely different.
...
Still some confusion about the "cut away the clippers" rule.

Scenarios that are excluded:
In The Dark, Monster Hunt, Prison Break, Settlement Attack, and Escape.

It was addressed months ago on one of the Twitch streams - the needler half of the combi-weapon is supposed to be different to the standalone rifle. Same as how the plasma parts of combi-weapons don't have the overcharge mode.

It's a little unclear, but there are references to swapping weapons and wargear into the stash, from which I infer that the "put away the clippers" rule has been forgotten - feel free to sell off unwanted weapons if you want to buy a ganger something better (I need to re-read the rules more closely, it seems). Other than In the Dark, those missing scenarios are the multi-player, semi-cooperative ones. Perhaps they'll be revisited in a future supplement?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'm loving the fluff in the new books(mostly). That wee joke about "Mung Vases" turns super dark at the end

Yeah, I saw that. Also, I can't remember if some of the references to House Helmawr's secret, and the son that fled to the Underhive are Kal Jericho references. There's a reference to the old Space Hulk campaign set on Necromunda, and I think the fall of Hive Secundus references the Space Crusade campaign from WD145 that added rules for genestealer hybrids?

Ash Waste nomads, Orlock mining convoys and the spaceship graveyard - get your old Gorkamorka muties and Diggas out, and start converting those new Genestealer Cult bikers!

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

It was addressed months ago on one of the Twitch streams - the needler half of the combi-weapon is supposed to be different to the standalone rifle. Same as how the plasma parts of combi-weapons don't have the overcharge mode.

Ok so at least it is deliberate. Combi is a very curious trait:

-roll twice for Ammo check, apply the worst result.
-if one profile runs Out of Ammo, the other can still fire (unless also Out of Ammo)
-only low power for plasma weapons
-one less Short range accuracy and AP for needler (compared to standalone "needle rifle")

I mean, the first 3 effects are ok. The last one... very curious.

What's the "no clippers" rule?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's the "no clippers" rule?

That was the whole "fixed equipment for Mooks, and you can only vary gear on champs etc with extra loadout cards" thing that just about everybody looked and and immediately said "feth that" and did things the old way.

It's fun watching people on Facebook try to justify the fact that clubs now add to your opponent's armour save rather than subtract to it.

"It's because it's a blunt weapon!"

Then why don't other blunt weapons do the same thing? Why are your own fists more effective than a club at getting through armour? Why is the club the -only weapon in the whole game- that does this?

Not once do they consider that this is probably a typo.

Of course GW could stubbornly say "Nah bruv, it was totes intentional!" like way back in the day when T5 Oblits were an "error". Yes I'm still bitter at Pete Haines about that.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Also, I can't remember if some of the references to House Helmawr's secret, and the son that fled to the Underhive are Kal Jericho references. There's a reference to the old Space Hulk campaign set on Necromunda, and I think the fall of Hive Secundus references the Space Crusade campaign from WD145 that added rules for genestealer hybrids?

The Helmawr story is older than Kal Jerico, but yes, there're references to some old snippets and the Hive Secundus background is now indeed based on the Space Crusade Campaign Renegade. The whole fluff is a potpourri of Confrontation (they used entire passages with a minimum of rewriting), old Necromunda and new ideas. I was positively overwhelmed when I read it first (and still in love).

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
Also, I can't remember if some of the references to House Helmawr's secret, and the son that fled to the Underhive are Kal Jericho references. There's a reference to the old Space Hulk campaign set on Necromunda, and I think the fall of Hive Secundus references the Space Crusade campaign from WD145 that added rules for genestealer hybrids?

The Helmawr story is older than Kal Jerico, but yes, there're references to some old snippets and the Hive Secundus background is now indeed based on the Space Crusade Campaign Renegade. The whole fluff is a potpourri of Confrontation (they used entire passages with a minimum of rewriting), old Necromunda and new ideas. I was positively overwhelmed when I read it first (and still in love).

I was quite pleased that they do seem to be taking the time to make the old stuff mesh a bit better with the new stuff, just little things, like specifically calling out how rare the Brat gangs' jetbikes are.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Of course GW could stubbornly say "Nah bruv, it was totes intentional!" like way back in the day when T5 Oblits were an "error". Yes I'm still bitter at Pete Haines about that.

We are truly kindred spirits.

Baxx wrote:

-only low power for plasma weapons
-one less Short range accuracy and AP for needler (compared to standalone "needle rifle")

I mean, the first 3 effects are ok. The last one... very curious.

Why is the reduced effectiveness for plasma OK, but not for a needler? off the top of my head, the combi-version having reduced power (as with the combi-plasma weapon) explains both the reduced range and AP, as the "carrier" laser can't punch through armour as well and "fades out" quicker. The less-ideal ergonomics of a combi-weapon would also explain the reduced accuracy, IMO.

I've not been paying close attention - what's the usual lead time between the plastic gang and the FW upgrade kits?