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Mark Bedford has confirmed that the tiles are the same size as the original FW ones.

Also, he posted more pics (apologies if these don't work):

So that's the central part of the diorama, that they have said is in addition to the "two boxes' worth of scenery" they said it had, right?

That makes it look like the amount of scenery in the box is... paltry, particularly for the price.

Also, all the floor tiles are exactly the same one, but painted differently? Because they look like they are.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yeah, I don't know anything about Necromunda outside of "The Enforcers aren't Arbites, but damn I want those models".

These Enforcers are certainly Arbites in my precinct!

Just great looking models to build and to paint. Count as Krieg Engineers for me.

Yeah 3D printer seems like a better value for money than 2 of these boxes to sorta kinda maybe cover a 4x4, and that's without any floor tiles!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Mark Bedford has confirmed that the tiles are the same size as the original FW ones.

Pic didn't work for me so uploading them.

That's Corpse-starch factory?

Absolutely love the look of the scenery (and also keen on the enforcers) so almost certainly going to pick up a set, I'd almost be tempted by two but imagine there may be quite a lot of people doing that (or buying a box just for the scenery) so probably hard to shift the duplicates of everything else (and I'm a bit lazy when it comes to selling stuff) so will probably have to wait for the standalone release of the scenery before expanding, hopefully not too long. I picked up two AT Grand Master sets but with them pretty everything that was duplicated was useful (even the rulebook as I was able to give that to a friend to try and get them interested).

Will also probably add some floors, do we know the UK pricing yet? £45-£50? Also wondering about how many tiles you get in a set, I'm guessing 3 or 4, but neither of those numbers is quite ideal so hard to guess which.

3 means you can easily do 2x3, 3x3 and 4x3 but a single set doesn't really work on its own (except for oddly shaped boards) and expanding up to larger standard table sizes also doesn't work well.

4 works fine on it's own, but then not great when it comes to doing 2x3 or 3x3 tables, which I believe are standard size Kill Team and Necromunda tables, but then works well for all tables sizes above that.

Mark's terrain stuff is always a joy to look at, thanks for sharing!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Yeah, I don't know anything about Necromunda outside of "The Enforcers aren't Arbites, but damn I want those models".

These Enforcers are certainly Arbites in my precinct!

Just great looking models to build and to paint. Count as Krieg Engineers for me.

Yes!!! Make them what YOU want them to be.

I admit that Dark Uprising has a hell of a lot more value in the box than Blood of the Phoenix, but then, I don't think Phoenix was even remotely worth $230.

The box really does feel very comparable to Warcry, despite being $120 more - it's got a BIT more stuff in the box, but I'm not sure if the softback included rulebook is a substitute for the $50 core rulebook (it at least lacks the Dominion campaign), and you'll most likely need the $50 gang book for a full equipment and skill list (and if you want to play other gangs). Depending on what's in the mini-rulebook, you might also need the Book of Judgment for full Enforcer content. Even at $290, you might need to spend another $50-$150 for a full Necromunda experience. It's absurd that it is approaching $500 (or 10% of a kidney).

And chances are, if you already play Necromunda or just want the terrain, there's a lot of stuff in the box you don't need and don't want to pay for. I'm not sure how much of a discount this $290 box could potentially be, but almost certainly that discount is eaten away by the rulebooks, dice, template, board, and tokens - you'll be better served waiting for the individual releases. Except that the individual releases probably won't come until this box is gone, so there will be no way to tell if this box even has a discount until it is too late. Right now, the only way I can even see a discount is if the Zone Mortalis releases are Blood of the Phoenix level of pricing stupidity.

And if you don't already play Necromunda, this box gives you almost everything you need at the low, low cost of $290. I don't see a lot of people thinking, "gee, I'm really not sure if I'll enjoy this game, much less can get a bunch of likeminded individuals to buy in to play a campaign with, if only there was a starter set that cost 6% of a kidney so that I could dip my toes in". At least Adeptus Titanicus at $300 made sense because it included two $100 models and could work as a two player starter, or a one player army box - it isn't really possible to cheaply dip your toes into AT. It's a premium, niche game. Necromunda isn't (or shouldn't be).

I'm just completely bewildered by this release. Necromunda has a confusing set of books to buy and starting options (ask "Should I start with the Underhive starter set?" and get 30 different responses). It could really benefit from a "Yes, start here" box, and Dark Uprising isn't that box. Not at 6% of a kidney.

What they'd ideally have is a "Start here" bundle: Rulebook, dice, templates, and a gang box of your choice. Even more ideal would be to have that as a starter box. Obviously, the fact that currently you seem to always need at least 2 rulebooks to run any given gang and start playing doesn't help.

Add some support to setting up campaigns in stores and many more people might be interested - a box of 10 models, a book and some dice to start playing campaigns? Yes please!

 Insane Ivan wrote:
What they'd ideally have is a "Start here" bundle: Rulebook, dice, templates, and a gang box of your choice. Even more ideal would be to have that as a starter box. Obviously, the fact that currently you seem to always need at least 2 rulebooks to run any given gang and start playing doesn't help.

I think the rulebook is where they need to start. They need a cheap rulebook (maybe digest sized) with just the rules for playing, along with a small gang starter booklet that has units and basic (on the sprue) equipment for a particular gang box. This is probably what the Dark Uprising rulebook will be, but being exclusive to a $300 box set doesn't really make it a good starter rulebook.

I like the Gang War and Book of books (I might be the only one), but they really only work as expansions. They build on the previous stuff extensively and assume you already have it. Like, if you want to play Enforcers, I don't think it includes full equipment lists or trading post info (it has the black market trading post content though), so you still need the Gangs book. No doubt that Corpsegrinder Cult in the Book of Ruin will still require the Gangs book as well. I guess we'll need a Gangs 2 book at some point.

Add some support to setting up campaigns in stores and many more people might be interested - a box of 10 models, a book and some dice to start playing campaigns? Yes please!

Right now, the biggest obstacle to starting Necromunda might be that all the dice are limited print, and only the Enforcer dice are currently available. I'm happy that GW is finally releasing generic Necromunda dice, but hopefully, they'll stick around long enough that the $290 "starter" box doesn't become the only place to get dice for new players.

 Insane Ivan wrote:
What they'd ideally have is a "Start here" bundle: Rulebook, dice, templates, and a gang box of your choice. Even more ideal would be to have that as a starter box. Obviously, the fact that currently you seem to always need at least 2 rulebooks to run any given gang and start playing doesn't help.

Add some support to setting up campaigns in stores and many more people might be interested - a box of 10 models, a book and some dice to start playing campaigns? Yes please!

What they'd ideally have is what they did back then:



A complete system that you can play right out of the box and that you can keep playing right out of the box.

But, alas, that is not what GW is nowadays, what with their dlc system.

Wait, how does that machine work? Does the pipe pump body parts into the vat, and the claw picks bits up and puts it on the ramp? Why does the vat look like its liquefying and boiling down bodies then?
Its an impressive bit of terrain, but I'm having trouble working out what its supposed to be doing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Insane Ivan wrote:
What they'd ideally have is a "Start here" bundle: Rulebook, dice, templates, and a gang box of your choice. Even more ideal would be to have that as a starter box. Obviously, the fact that currently you seem to always need at least 2 rulebooks to run any given gang and start playing doesn't help.

Add some support to setting up campaigns in stores and many more people might be interested - a box of 10 models, a book and some dice to start playing campaigns? Yes please!

What they'd ideally have is what they did back then:



A complete system that you can play right out of the box and that you can keep playing right out of the box.

But, alas, that is not what GW is nowadays, what with their dlc system.

Whilst it is a pity, at least the terrain you get now is pretty nice. In that box set you get cardboard, with what GW sells now its detailed plastic.
Personally though I miss how GW would give instructions on how to make your own terrain. In the 4th ed Warhammer 40k BRB there were instructions on how to make a gaming table, craters and bunkers, and in the 3rd necron codex there were instructions on making necron crystals from foam.

 Albertorius wrote:

A complete system that you can play right out of the box and that you can keep playing right out of the box.

But, alas, that is not what GW is nowadays, what with their dlc system.

They figured a way to increase income by reducing quality and longevity.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Whilst it is a pity, at least the terrain you get now is pretty nice. In that box set you get cardboard, with what GW sells now its detailed plastic.

Cardboard terrain can be pretty nice too, and you can get a lot of it for a fraction of the cost. For a "starter set", cardboard terrain is more than an adequate compromise. It would be better if GW could get a Necromunda starter under $150 with cardboard terrain (like Infinity's Operation: Wildfire) than for them to do one for twice the price.

I mean, why doesn't GW do cardboard terrain? It seemed to be a pretty big selling point for old Necromunda and Mordheim. It could've shaved off $50 from Adeptus Titanicus' GME box (especially when the terrain included is inadequate). You'd be better off using the Monsterpocalypse cardboard apartment buildings (which I still use). In fact, I've seen people who still have their Necromunda cardboard terrain... Maybe that's why GW doesn't do it? Cardboard might be just good enough that nobody would buy the considerably more expensive plastic stuff.

 Sqorgar wrote:

I like the Gang War and Book of books (I might be the only one), but they really only work as expansions. They build on the previous stuff extensively and assume you already have it. Like, if you want to play Enforcers, I don't think it includes full equipment lists or trading post info (it has the black market trading post content though), so you still need the Gangs book. No doubt that Corpsegrinder Cult in the Book of Ruin will still require the Gangs book as well. I guess we'll need a Gangs 2 book at some point.

How to decide between internal inconsistencies (page x have conflicting rules with page y) and how to deal with external inconsistencies (new rules have conflicting with previous rules). How to make broken/unfinished rules work?

Baxx wrote:
How to decide between internal inconsistencies (page x have conflicting rules with page y) and how to deal with external inconsistencies (new rules have conflicting with previous rules). How to make broken/unfinished rules work?

You just do it?

Necromunda, more than any other game out there except maybe Age of Sigmar pre-points, is more of a sandbox of ideas than a deliberate way to play. You aren't meant to do everything all the time. You pick and choose what you want to play with. The game has very obvious delineations in play (campaigns) where any specific rule or idea only has to last for the season. THIS season, the rules work like this. NEXT season, we'll revisit.

The game is unbalanced, but that's okay. Make your own balance. The game has inconsistencies. Pick the version you like and stick with for the rest of the campaign. Six different campaigns? Play whatever, and maybe next time, play something else with a new warband. Don't like this scenario? Don't play it. These figures don't have models for these weapons? Cut them off a different figure that does. It's your game, do what you want with it. It's one of the few major miniature games that has built in support for a GM. Let the Arbitrator do some of the heavy lifting.

People had trouble with pre-points Age of Sigmar too. The idea that you are a partner in the game rules rather than a slave to them must be a really troublesome concept.

 Sqorgar wrote:
It's one of the few major miniature games that has built in support for a GM. Let the Arbitrator do some of the heavy lifting.

...is that supposed to be a good thing..?

It's broken so we can have a third person fix it for us? Yay.


It's odd that I never encountered anyone when playing old Necromunda who said, 'Gee, I sure do wish this rules system required us to have an extra person to fix all of the holes and contradictions for us, rather than us just being able to play the game as it comes'.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
It's one of the few major miniature games that has built in support for a GM. Let the Arbitrator do some of the heavy lifting.

...is that supposed to be a good thing..?

For a narrative game? I think so. Do you think Dungeons & Dragons would be better without a Dungeonmaster? Do you think a tv show is better with a creative showrunner?

I'm reading through the new Frostgrave book, Perilous Dark, and the majority of the book is not "rules you can use", but is more intended as ruminations and suggestions for how a GM-type person could create solo/cooperative scenarios for their Frostgrave group. So far, I haven't seen any reviews going "Ugh. Why is he teaching us how to fish? Why can't he just give us the fish, like we want?"

 Sqorgar wrote:

Necromunda, more than any other game out there except maybe Age of Sigmar pre-points, is more of a sandbox of ideas than a deliberate way to play. You aren't meant to do everything all the time. You pick and choose what you want to play with. The game has very obvious delineations in play (campaigns) where any specific rule or idea only has to last for the season. THIS season, the rules work like this. NEXT season, we'll revisit.

The game is unbalanced, but that's okay. Make your own balance. The game has inconsistencies. Pick the version you like and stick with for the rest of the campaign. Six different campaigns? Play whatever, and maybe next time, play something else with a new warband. Don't like this scenario? Don't play it. These figures don't have models for these weapons? Cut them off a different figure that does. It's your game, do what you want with it. It's one of the few major miniature games that has built in support for a GM. Let the Arbitrator do some of the heavy lifting.

People had trouble with pre-points Age of Sigmar too. The idea that you are a partner in the game rules rather than a slave to them must be a really troublesome concept.

Blood Bowl is also EXTREMELY sandbox. Players agree to use any combinations of the optional components. Same for Necromunda, players can agree to try different things to include. Difference is, the rules for all the components in Blood Bowl actually work. For Necromunda they don't. GW didn't ommit rules or write broken rules for the purpose of open sandbox, but because they are sloppy and forget. It's been said on Yaktribe that ideas are cheap. I need actual playable rules, not loose guidelines!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Wait, how does that machine work? Does the pipe pump body parts into the vat, and the claw picks bits up and puts it on the ramp? Why does the vat look like its liquefying and boiling down bodies then?
Its an impressive bit of terrain, but I'm having trouble working out what its supposed to be doing.

Simple:
Bodies are dumped in the round mixer. Other semi-organic matter is added through the pipe.
The crane carefully picks upp any flensed skulls that surface, and place them on the conveyor which dumps them in the skull box - to be cleaned and sold as home decoration and/or to add that important grimdark touch to battlefields all over the galaxy.

The old Necromunda box's contents were actually what kept me from buying into modern Necromunda.



Yes, it was cardboard, but it was good cardboard, modular and fitted with the lovely plastic bulkheads (which were used in a ton of pretty solid cardboard terrain for the next several years). You received two gangs (and yep, the minis were pretty crap...BUT...they were actually peg-modular, with swappable arms/weapons). You received *gasp* rules for 3D play which you didn't have to buy after the fact. You had a full campaign setting, and also *gasp* rules existed for things that weren't out yet...and you weren't limited by what models came with in the plastic sprues. Options existed in the rulebook that were never actually available as miniatures. You just bashed them up yourself.

Also worth noting, the rulebook was concise with pretty much zero typos, errors, conflicting rules, etc. The writing from GW was far superior back then. The new books (when originally released) were so laughably bad...it was shocking. I only assume the newest revised versions are at least fixed.

It wasn't sold as "part" of a game, but a full game. You could buy the expansions, but you weren't required to. You could play for years with the basic Necromunda box if you wanted. The new take on Necromunda was so painfully "GW" that I simply couldn't get into it, even now with the finalized books I'm unlikely to get into it. GW, for all their praise, has really gone the opposite direction of how cool they were in the 90's. That's not a good thing for a lot of us old enough to remember.

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
It's one of the few major miniature games that has built in support for a GM. Let the Arbitrator do some of the heavy lifting.

...is that supposed to be a good thing..?

It's broken so we can have a third person fix it for us? Yay.


It's odd that I never encountered anyone when playing old Necromunda who said, 'Gee, I sure do wish this rules system required us to have an extra person to fix all of the holes and contradictions for us, rather than us just being able to play the game as it comes'.

Yeah that's exactly it! Build a solid foundation without needing massive amount of house rules. Then add any amount of sandboxes and arbitrators on top of that solid foundation.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:
It's one of the few major miniature games that has built in support for a GM. Let the Arbitrator do some of the heavy lifting.

...is that supposed to be a good thing..?

For a narrative game? I think so. Do you think Dungeons & Dragons would be better without a Dungeonmaster? Do you think a tv show is better with a creative showrunner?

I'm reading through the new Frostgrave book, Perilous Dark, and the majority of the book is not "rules you can use", but is more intended as ruminations and suggestions for how a GM-type person could create solo/cooperative scenarios for their Frostgrave group. So far, I haven't seen any reviews going "Ugh. Why is he teaching us how to fish? Why can't he just give us the fish, like we want?"

"Having a DM" and "Rules not working" are different, non-exclusionary things.

Needing a GM to play is not a bad thing. Having rules that don't work is. Having multiple, conflicting rules for the same thing usually is too.

 Albertorius wrote:
"Having a DM" and "Rules not working" are different, non-exclusionary things.

True, but "Having a DM" can be a workable answer to "Rules not Working".

And I'm not saying they need to be in a traditional DM role. Just have one guy in charge of the campaign who makes the final ruling on these things, and communicates that ruling to the other players. Like an email that says "In the last game, Harry tried to use item X, which has three different profiles in three different books. We've decided to use the profile from book Y, which will be the standard going forward in this campaign, but we should have a discussion about how to deal with it in future campaigns".

The real question- Are those Games Workshop Trademarked quality European Skulls, or southbound African Swollow brand Skulls?

This game is fine. You can play it either with or without a group. It doesn't matter. This having a third party "Arbitrator" isn't that big a deal, and your making more out of it then it really is. There honestly is no need for that third person, but it helps when you have more then one player, and the gangs games are interrelated within your group.

My personal example is that we played this game on like four or five tables, and later as the gangs had different tables they changed over to were fighting other issues as well as the gangs, and you have that third guy roaming around dropping in the enemies, as well as making calls when you walked over a chit, or a cardstock card that represented either an additional enemy, or treasure part, or equipment. Sometimes it turned into an additional scenario within a scenario, such as "Kill Gang leader, take his head back to X, or Clear out the zombie horde, or You get attacked by giant spiders or rats or something...

You have to make your Necromunda game YOUR game, and all of the additional add ons are just that, additional.

you can fight just gang fights, or fight over additional territories or landmarks, or resources, as well as fight a dragon or Ambull, or renegade robot, or a squad of chaos warriors, or cultists as they run through your gangs territories... The choice comes to what you want to put into and get out of your game time.

Baxx: ”... Build a solid foundation ...”

Yes, I think this is exactly what Necromunda needs.

What we see now is a bunch of releases that fail mostly because of the lack of strong and well documented core rules.
I hope we get a basic rulebook without fluff and with chapters for all basic actions and reactions - and a good Index!

How are the players and GMs supposed to learn the rules - especially when they keep changing and the creators themselves have no clue whatsoever.

Our group mostly make rules up as we go as the myriad of books, the hard to read grey pages, the confusing layout and the lack of Indexes makes it really hard to find the rule in question - and even if you happen to find it, the wording is often unclear, not to mention the risk of other versions of the rule appearing in other books aswell.

Necromunda is one of the best games I have ever played - but the rulebooks are definitely the worst...

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
"Having a DM" and "Rules not working" are different, non-exclusionary things.

True, but "Having a DM" can be a workable answer to "Rules not Working".

And I'm not saying they need to be in a traditional DM role. Just have one guy in charge of the campaign who makes the final ruling on these things, and communicates that ruling to the other players. Like an email that says "In the last game, Harry tried to use item X, which has three different profiles in three different books. We've decided to use the profile from book Y, which will be the standard going forward in this campaign, but we should have a discussion about how to deal with it in future campaigns".

It's so easy, and takes all of about 5 minutes. It's called communication, and while I understand personally the struggle of social anxiety and the like, I still am not going to let that ruin my gaming fun.

I just played a game of 40k in a campaign. Half of the rules we were making up on the spot and that was a frustrating experience. If the organizers of the campaign had sat everyone down to explain the process from the get-go, there would have been zero questions and no interrupt in the gameplay to argue a bunch of crap. If the campaign organizer had been a GM instead of in the game trying to kick our butts, that would have been helpful too, since it would have at least felt like there was a semi-impartial 3rd party.

This has much more to do with people communicating their desires for the kind of game they want to play and a lot less to do with the rules being bad.

drbored wrote:

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
"Having a DM" and "Rules not working" are different, non-exclusionary things.

True, but "Having a DM" can be a workable answer to "Rules not Working".

And I'm not saying they need to be in a traditional DM role. Just have one guy in charge of the campaign who makes the final ruling on these things, and communicates that ruling to the other players. Like an email that says "In the last game, Harry tried to use item X, which has three different profiles in three different books. We've decided to use the profile from book Y, which will be the standard going forward in this campaign, but we should have a discussion about how to deal with it in future campaigns".

It's so easy, and takes all of about 5 minutes. It's called communication, and while I understand personally the struggle of social anxiety and the like, I still am not going to let that ruin my gaming fun.

I just played a game of 40k in a campaign. Half of the rules we were making up on the spot and that was a frustrating experience. If the organizers of the campaign had sat everyone down to explain the process from the get-go, there would have been zero questions and no interrupt in the gameplay to argue a bunch of crap. If the campaign organizer had been a GM instead of in the game trying to kick our butts, that would have been helpful too, since it would have at least felt like there was a semi-impartial 3rd party.

This has much more to do with people communicating their desires for the kind of game they want to play and a lot less to do with the rules being bad.

You havent played Necromunda have you?
Please go to Yaktribe, read the YAQ with hundreds of questions regarding how to interpret the rules, which stats might be the right ones, etc. - there are no official answers and to come up with your own and communicate them would require a thousand times the ”5 minutes” mentioned. Not to mention the cruelty to your players inboxes